Seahawks Defense Dead Last Since Week 9

[jammerhawk]

I think the team is struggling with personnel issues and the DBs they thought were going to be the ones playing aren't and seem to be on the way out. in result there seems to be a confused scheme that the present DC can't seem to sort out.

Of course the ultimate responsibility is on PC it seems clear that several others aren't doing their jobs well or even at a competent level. It's a mess!

 

[Wheetie]

Look the D truly sucks and intends to be fixed, frankly think PC is out of ideas and was hoping that a new approach could help fix a D that seems stuck in a confused scheme. Hence the present confused 3-4 version of crap being served up as a D. Hurrt is clearly over his head and so was his predecessor, Hurrt can't fix this mess and new blood is needed.

What is important here instead of pointing blame fingers is to fix the problem. Clearly PC hasn't got that long to go as a HC and he may just decide that enough is enough, though I think the job allows him to think young. The team's overall competitive philosophy is being screwed over by the crap served up on D.

What is needed is a new DC who Pete will have to relinquish some power to, not that I don't think that is already the case b/c nobody can con control every thing.

"who Pete will have to relinquish some power to..."

You just called yourself and some other posters out with that statement.

 

[Jville]

And so was HIS predecessor. Remember the Kris Richard disaster? Dude wasn't even on anyone's staff this year. PC just keeps hiring one giant bust after another. I bet PC would bring back Sean Desai to run this D if given the chance.

If the defense is destined to continue with a variation of a Vic Fangio hybrid, that might be a possibility.

 

[James in PA]

If the defense is destined to continue with a variation of a Vic Fangio hybrid, that might be a possibility.

I'm sure Philly would be more than happy to hand him right back to us. They've already essentially fired him. lol.

 

[bileever]

What we've witnessed the last two seasons is truly awful. I can't even begin to describe the frustration one feels in seeing the defense repeatedly gashed by both good and bad teams. How is it that we're not able to improve in even a small way from week to week? It's only gotten worse as the season goes on.

I take back every bad thing I said about Ken Norton. To think that we complained about the 12th ranked defense. (With inferior players, even.) I know Pete has to take responsibility for this mess, but honestly Clint Hurtt must be a complete idiot.

 

[Jville]

I'm sure Philly would be more than happy to hand him right back to us. They've already essentially fired him. lol.

Likely a result of the continuation of how attempts to copy and modify and apply the Vic Fangio scheme around the league two years ago resulted in multiple disappointment around the league one year later.

 

[Spin Doctor]

That seems regressive. Ultimate culpability for the hire falls on Pete, but determining the moving parts responsible for the current defensive ineptitude is a more nuanced conversation altogether.

Hurtt has obviously not been able to implement some basic defensive principles that our previous defensive coordinators have. Implementation falls on them whereas direction falls on the head coach, strictly in a gameplanning and scheme sense.

The issue is these problems have been persisting since the Richards era.

I respect you Mael, but you’re bending over backwards trying to absolve Pete of culpability.

The issues we have extend far past the Clint Hurtt experiment. They’ve been issues to some extent since 2017. The same things we’ve been complaining about are the same issues we’ve had for years.

Carroll is part of the problem here, if not the main culprit. We’ve been in the bottom half of the league in defense since 2017. We’ve had many of the same issues across three different coordinators.

I understand where you’re coming from. Pete brought us to the greatest heights, brought us to places no other Seahawk coach has been.

At this point, I think it’s time to start thinking about moving on. He’s going to be 73 years old. How many years does he have left coaching? How will his age affect his decision making for long term decision making?

 

[morgulon1]

I believe Pete bears the ultimate responsibility but the present DC has now shown us 2 seasons of futility in doing his job.

My view is that if PC doesn't can Hurrt than he needs to go. However so does Hurrt.

Ll

The issue is these problems have been persisting since the Richards era.

I respect you Mael, but you’re bending over backwards trying to absolve Pete of culpability.

The issues we have extend far past the Clint Hurtt experiment. They’ve been issues to some extent since 2017. The same things we’ve been complaining about are the same issues we’ve had for years.

Carroll is part of the problem here, if not the main culprit. We’ve been in the bottom half of the league in defense since 2017. We’ve had many of the same issues across three different coordinators.

I understand where you’re coming from. Pete brought us to the greatest heights, brought us to places no other Seahawk coach has been.

At this point, I think it’s time to start thinking about moving on. He’s going to be 73 years old. How many years does he have left coaching? How will his age affect his decision making for long term decision making?

Yeah Pete HAS to know how lucky he is to be in a city where the de facto owner doesn't give a shit how well he does his job. The more time goes by , I listen to his goofy ass "interviews" on Brock and Salk and laugh as they throw him soft ball after softball question.

Similar to something I watched on Dick Clark's rocking new years eve.

There's nothing complicated about this.
Pete's in charge . Read his book " win forever " or whatever the heck its called.
He very plainly stated that he would have to have total control for things to work.
He gets the credit for SB48. He also gets credit for the last 6 or so years.

 

[Optimus25]

The issue is these problems have been persisting since the Richards era.

I respect you Mael, but you’re bending over backwards trying to absolve Pete of culpability.

The issues we have extend far past the Clint Hurtt experiment. They’ve been issues to some extent since 2017. The same things we’ve been complaining about are the same issues we’ve had for years.

Carroll is part of the problem here, if not the main culprit. We’ve been in the bottom half of the league in defense since 2017. We’ve had many of the same issues across three different coordinators.

I understand where you’re coming from. Pete brought us to the greatest heights, brought us to places no other Seahawk coach has been.

At this point, I think it’s time to start thinking about moving on. He’s going to be 73 years old. How many years does he have left coaching? How will his age affect his decision making for long term decision making?

Next year is a great year to kick all the elderly hacks who can't do their job to the curb! Fitting...

 

[hawks85]

They're goddamned awful. Awful. We're not keeping basic gap integrity, and the players can hardly be evaluated because they're all playing timid. None of them trust one another, and you can't play fast without the basic integrity of knowing your exact job and knowing that your teammates will do theirs. Everyone is adrift at sea just flailing.

Yes, this does start at the top. The coordinator is the responsible party for coaching these details and ensuring that these guys are ready to execute, and Pete hired him. There's a lack of effort on the rosters part, but no shit! They're in chaos! How can you go max effort when you don't know what the others are doing around you? How can you go max effort when you don't know what YOU'RE supposed to do?

Hurtt should've been canned last year. The players on the front 7, at a minimum, knew their gaps and locked down the run under KNJ. This is objective number one of any defense: locking down the run game. You cannot let them move automatically in a grinding fashion while pulverizing the clock and gassing your D. This was unacceptable in 2022, and I know the justification from Pete is "Well, we tried to do too much at once change wise and I put him in a bad spot," but I don't care for that excuse at this point. Emasculation is unacceptable.

At least the offense isn't quitting because there's no structure. They're sloppy as all hell under Waldron compared to Schotty, but it isn't like the defense. This defense is an executable mistake, and there's no amount of HC stepping in that could've fixed it.

Hire a better talent for DC, surround them with experienced coaches, and get competent again. Just competent. Start with that.

Their number one priority during the off season is going after some of the Ravens defensive coaches. They need outside help to fix this D. Whatever the Ravens are doing is working. This is no longer a talent issue, it's the coaches.

 

[hoxrox]

Their number one priority during the off season is going after some of the Ravens defensive coaches. They need outside help to fix this D. Whatever the Ravens are doing is working. This is no longer a talent issue, it's the coaches.

That Ravens front 7 is pretty stacked. Sure their DC is better than Hurtt, but their talent is also much better.

 

[jammerhawk]

"who Pete will have to relinquish some power to..."

You just called yourself and some other posters out with that statement.

No problem with Dan Quinn taking on the whole show.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Imagine thinking Clint Hurtt is the top?

Hahaha ha. Pete is in charge of everything pertaining to football operations. That is the top.

No DC worth his salt is going to come in and be under Pete. Quinn wouldn't even come back.

The most realistic scenario is Carl Scott is promoted to DC. Another "yes" man.

Or Sean Desai is brought back, something like that.

Pete has stated many times that he must have total control for his program to work. Down to what the players have for lunch at training camp. It is a pre-requisite his coordinators are "yes" men.

He is not a Jon Harbaugh CEO type. Who knows his limitations as it pertains to X's and O's. 70% of the playbook is Pete's, as he has publicly stated.

Judy, could step in and challenge him, and the old guy not willing to give it up yet, could possibly agree to being a figurehead, but that is more like a hope and a prayer.

The best choice, is just to simply have Pete retire, fire, move out of the way, whatever, so the franchise can finally move forward.

I didn't say that the coordinator was the top. I said at the end of that sentence "and Pete hired him," leaving ultimate blame with Pete.

This is what I'm talking about. Even if I blame Pete for something, you still can't even take the time to read what was actually said. It's absolutely befuddling how bad faith your responses are.

You genuinely just read whatever you want. I wish I had the superpower of not being able to read anything other than what I explicitly want to read. We can't all be so lucky, I guess.

Also, to nitpick, you're misrepresenting that "70%" quote, and we've been over that before. You have enough basis behind your opinions that you shouldn't have to lie to strengthen them. It's preposterous.

 

[Maelstrom787]

The issue is these problems have been persisting since the Richards era.

I respect you Mael, but you’re bending over backwards trying to absolve Pete of culpability.

The issues we have extend far past the Clint Hurtt experiment. They’ve been issues to some extent since 2017. The same things we’ve been complaining about are the same issues we’ve had for years.

Carroll is part of the problem here, if not the main culprit. We’ve been in the bottom half of the league in defense since 2017. We’ve had many of the same issues across three different coordinators.

I understand where you’re coming from. Pete brought us to the greatest heights, brought us to places no other Seahawk coach has been.

At this point, I think it’s time to start thinking about moving on. He’s going to be 73 years old. How many years does he have left coaching? How will his age affect his decision making for long term decision making?

I have given Pete direct culpability for this mess as the head executive of football operations. He literally makes the hire/fire decisions. Me blaming Clint Hurtt for not being able to coach basic gap integrity on his defensive unit does not absolve Pete of hiring the idiot to begin with, much less retaining him after 2022.

Also, they haven't been the same issues since 2017. The only constant is the feeling of disappointing returns, but the problems now are starkly different. The rampant gap control issues are an explicit post-KNJ issue. The run defense is the proof, as it was always perfectly fine regardless of the overall defensive statistics and they always improved by end of year. Not under Hurtt.

Criticizing Hurtt is not the opposite of criticizing Pete. Criticizing Hurtt IS a criticism of Pete, and a damning one at that as he's on year 2. I respect you too, but I don't feel like the actual content of my posts are being responded to here.

My opinion is that Pete should have an opportunity to continue as head coach should he take drastic, drastic action in terms of reshaping the organization with steady hands on the coaching staff to set us up for the next era of Seahawks football.

I'm talking a full staff overhaul. If he is willing to right the obvious wrongs, he can have one last crack at it if he wants it. He can retire otherwise. This is the only path to him being viable going forward, and I don't think that's an unbalanced view to have.

Fix the mistakes, and fix them now, or it's over.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Their number one priority during the off season is going after some of the Ravens defensive coaches. They need outside help to fix this D. Whatever the Ravens are doing is working. This is no longer a talent issue, it's the coaches.

Jesse Minter might be better if we want that Ravens success. Might want to look more at the Michigan staff than the Ravens staff. MacDonald is young, first year, and has no real proteges to poach. Just tangential associates.

Minter, however, took over for MacDonald under Jim Harbaugh at Michigan and they didn't miss a beat.

 

[cymatica]

That Ravens front 7 is pretty stacked. Sure their DC is better than Hurtt, but their talent is also much better.

Their defense wasn't playing this well until they hired their new DC

 

[cymatica]

Criticizing Hurtt is not the opposite of criticizing Pete. Criticizing Hurtt IS a criticism of Pete, and a damning one at that as he's on year 2. I respect you too, but I don't feel like the actual content of my posts are being responded to here.

My opinion is that Pete should have an opportunity to continue as head coach should he take drastic, drastic action in terms of reshaping the organization with steady hands on the coaching staff to set us up for the next era of Seahawks football.

I'm talking a full staff overhaul. If he is willing to right the obvious wrongs, he can have one last crack at it if he wants it. He can retire otherwise. This is the only path to him being viable going forward, and I don't think that's an unbalanced view to have.

Fix the mistakes, and fix them now, or it's over.

I would agree for the most part, but I wouldn't trust Pete to hire a good staff more than I would trust a Rainier Avenue fentanyl attic with my financial portfolio.

 

[renofox]

I have given Pete direct culpability for this mess as the head executive of football operations. He literally makes the hire/fire decisions. Me blaming Clint Hurtt for not being able to coach basic gap integrity on his defensive unit does not absolve Pete of hiring the idiot to begin with, much less retaining him after 2022.

Also, they haven't been the same issues since 2017. The only constant is the feeling of disappointing returns, but the problems now are starkly different. The rampant gap control issues are an explicit post-KNJ issue. The run defense is the proof, as it was always perfectly fine regardless of the overall defensive statistics and they always improved by end of year. Not under Hurtt.

Criticizing Hurtt is not the opposite of criticizing Pete. Criticizing Hurtt IS a criticism of Pete, and a damning one at that as he's on year 2. I respect you too, but I don't feel like the actual content of my posts are being responded to here.

My opinion is that Pete should have an opportunity to continue as head coach should he take drastic, drastic action in terms of reshaping the organization with steady hands on the coaching staff to set us up for the next era of Seahawks football.

I'm talking a full staff overhaul. If he is willing to right the obvious wrongs, he can have one last crack at it if he wants it. He can retire otherwise. This is the only path to him being viable going forward, and I don't think that's an unbalanced view to have.

Fix the mistakes, and fix them now, or it's over.

Interesting facet I never considered.

KNJ's defenses seemed to start the season on a historically record breaking bad level, but always got better as the season progressed.

Hurtt's defenses, on the other hand, start the season with flashes of excellence then proceed to regress to bottom-feeder status.

I wonder what the difference was?

 

[flv2]

I have given Pete direct culpability for this mess as the head executive of football operations. He literally makes the hire/fire decisions. Me blaming Clint Hurtt for not being able to coach basic gap integrity on his defensive unit does not absolve Pete of hiring the idiot to begin with, much less retaining him after 2022.

Also, they haven't been the same issues since 2017. The only constant is the feeling of disappointing returns, but the problems now are starkly different. The rampant gap control issues are an explicit post-KNJ issue. The run defense is the proof, as it was always perfectly fine regardless of the overall defensive statistics and they always improved by end of year. Not under Hurtt.

Criticizing Hurtt is not the opposite of criticizing Pete. Criticizing Hurtt IS a criticism of Pete, and a damning one at that as he's on year 2. I respect you too, but I don't feel like the actual content of my posts are being responded to here.

My opinion is that Pete should have an opportunity to continue as head coach should he take drastic, drastic action in terms of reshaping the organization with steady hands on the coaching staff to set us up for the next era of Seahawks football.

I'm talking a full staff overhaul. If he is willing to right the obvious wrongs, he can have one last crack at it if he wants it. He can retire otherwise. This is the only path to him being viable going forward, and I don't think that's an unbalanced view to have.

Fix the mistakes, and fix them now, or it's over.

I respect that but there's a discipline/professionalism problem within the team. I don't believe that can change without changing the HC that allowed it to slide for a long time.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Interesting facet I never considered.

KNJ's defenses seemed to start the season on a historically record breaking bad level, but always got better as the season progressed.

Hurtt's defenses, on the other hand, start the season with flashes of excellence then proceed to regress to bottom-feeder status.

I wonder what the difference was?

KNJ is a competent coach who has the capability to change and adjust over time. Not a barnburner, but a competent coach. He always tightened his defenses up over time, which frustrated us as it was a pattern, but is a hell of a lot better than Clint Hurtt's constant degradation of basic structure.

Clint Hurtt is unwashed asscheeks and he should not have survived 2023.

EDIT: I meant 2022 lol