Shane Waldron Our New Offensive Coordinator

[Maelstrom787]

Agreed. I think we'll be getting back to "point guard" Russ, supported by punishing run game.

then we will not make the playoffs. We need more than point guard Russ. We need a scoring point guard.

You JUST watched Seattle get bounced by a team that had a mediocre quarterback doing an impression of a point guard, coached by the same guys Pete just hired to run the offense. In what way does any of that forecast playoff failure?

I just watched us get bounced by a team with a top defense. Something we don't have. If we did than point t guard Russ might be enough. Problem is even back when we won the SB he had to do a lot more than a point guard QB can do. S9 no we need more than PG Russ.

I think you're confusing point guard with game manager. That, or I've always just thought of "point guard QB" differently, which honestly may be the case. To me, point guard quarterback doesn't necessarily mean limited game manager. In fact, I think of limited game managing quarterbacks as the opposite of effective PG QBs. A point guard QB is a QB that sees the whole field and gets the ball into the hands of his playmakers reliably. They can make all the throws. That's what Russ needs to be.

Point guard quarterbacks are also highly adept at short passing and getting the ball out accurately and on time. They're perfect in the WCO.

 

[Own The West]

then we will not make the playoffs. We need more than point guard Russ. We need a scoring point guard.

You JUST watched Seattle get bounced by a team that had a mediocre quarterback doing an impression of a point guard, coached by the same guys Pete just hired to run the offense. In what way does any of that forecast playoff failure?

I just watched us get bounced by a team with a top defense. Something we don't have. If we did than point t guard Russ might be enough. Problem is even back when we won the SB he had to do a lot more than a point guard QB can do. S9 no we need more than PG Russ.

I think you're confusing point guard with game manager. That, or I've always just thought of "point guard QB" differently, which honestly may be the case. To me, point guard quarterback doesn't necessarily mean limited game manager. In fact, I think of limited game managing quarterbacks as the opposite of effective PG QBs. A point guard QB is a QB that sees the whole field and gets the ball into the hands of his playmakers reliably. They can make all the throws. That's what Russ needs to be.

Point guard quarterbacks are also highly adept at short passing and getting the ball out accurately and on time. They're perfect in the WCO.

Here's a few links from Russell's early career that refer to him as a point guard as a bit of a refresher.

https://www.fieldgulls.com/seahawks...on-nfl-playoffs-seahawks-falcons-ron-jaworski

https://www.espn.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/114941/russell-wilson-9th-seahawk-on-top-100-list

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2013-nfl-season-preview-seattle-seahawks/

 

[John63]

then we will not make the playoffs. We need more than point guard Russ. We need a scoring point guard.

You JUST watched Seattle get bounced by a team that had a mediocre quarterback doing an impression of a point guard, coached by the same guys Pete just hired to run the offense. In what way does any of that forecast playoff failure?

I just watched us get bounced by a team with a top defense. Something we don't have. If we did than point t guard Russ might be enough. Problem is even back when we won the SB he had to do a lot more than a point guard QB can do. S9 no we need more than PG Russ.

I think you're confusing point guard with game manager. That, or I've always just thought of "point guard QB" differently, which honestly may be the case. To me, point guard quarterback doesn't necessarily mean limited game manager. In fact, I think of limited game managing quarterbacks as the opposite of effective PG QBs. A point guard QB is a QB that sees the whole field and gets the ball into the hands of his playmakers reliably. They can make all the throws. That's what Russ needs to be.

Point guard quarterbacks are also highly adept at short passing and getting the ball out accurately and on time. They're perfect in the WCO.

I think you will find the prevailing opinion is point guard QB and game manager are the same thing. Wilson despite being called these things has never really been one. You think of the proto typical point guard/game manager think Trent Dilfer when Baltimore won the SB. He was never called on to do anything beyond what any avg QB can do. Wilson even the year we won the Sb was called upon to do things at the time that few Qbs could do.

 

[Maelstrom787]

You JUST watched Seattle get bounced by a team that had a mediocre quarterback doing an impression of a point guard, coached by the same guys Pete just hired to run the offense. In what way does any of that forecast playoff failure?

I just watched us get bounced by a team with a top defense. Something we don't have. If we did than point t guard Russ might be enough. Problem is even back when we won the SB he had to do a lot more than a point guard QB can do. S9 no we need more than PG Russ.

I think you're confusing point guard with game manager. That, or I've always just thought of "point guard QB" differently, which honestly may be the case. To me, point guard quarterback doesn't necessarily mean limited game manager. In fact, I think of limited game managing quarterbacks as the opposite of effective PG QBs. A point guard QB is a QB that sees the whole field and gets the ball into the hands of his playmakers reliably. They can make all the throws. That's what Russ needs to be.

Point guard quarterbacks are also highly adept at short passing and getting the ball out accurately and on time. They're perfect in the WCO.

I think you will find the prevailing opinion is point guard QB and game manager are the same thing. Wilson despite being called these things has never really been one. You think of the proto typical point guard/game manager think Trent Dilfer when Baltimore won the SB. He was never called on to do anything beyond what any avg QB can do. Wilson even the year we won the Sb was called upon to do things at the time that few Qbs could do.

In that case, I concede the point and agree with you in this case, John. Russell's biggest strengths involve extraordinary efficiency on traditionally low-probability passes, and chaining him down won't help him. But, I think we agree that adding point-guard elements to his game through a passing offense closer to a WCO will help him shine even brighter.

He can be the complete package if Waldron crafts a scheme that allows him to be, and I think we're on the same page as far as where we want the overall direction of the offense to go.

 

[Maelstrom787]

You JUST watched Seattle get bounced by a team that had a mediocre quarterback doing an impression of a point guard, coached by the same guys Pete just hired to run the offense. In what way does any of that forecast playoff failure?

I just watched us get bounced by a team with a top defense. Something we don't have. If we did than point t guard Russ might be enough. Problem is even back when we won the SB he had to do a lot more than a point guard QB can do. S9 no we need more than PG Russ.

I think you're confusing point guard with game manager. That, or I've always just thought of "point guard QB" differently, which honestly may be the case. To me, point guard quarterback doesn't necessarily mean limited game manager. In fact, I think of limited game managing quarterbacks as the opposite of effective PG QBs. A point guard QB is a QB that sees the whole field and gets the ball into the hands of his playmakers reliably. They can make all the throws. That's what Russ needs to be.

Point guard quarterbacks are also highly adept at short passing and getting the ball out accurately and on time. They're perfect in the WCO.

Here's a few links from Russell's early career that refer to him as a point guard as a bit of a refresher.

https://www.fieldgulls.com/seahawks...on-nfl-playoffs-seahawks-falcons-ron-jaworski

https://www.espn.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/114941/russell-wilson-9th-seahawk-on-top-100-list

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2013-nfl-season-preview-seattle-seahawks/

Thanks for this - I was having trouble finding these links. I guess I had a different idea of the term than the common usage, and that'll be good to know going forward. Probably made me look silly in some conversations a few years back when the term was so popular.

 

[John63]

I just watched us get bounced by a team with a top defense. Something we don't have. If we did than point t guard Russ might be enough. Problem is even back when we won the SB he had to do a lot more than a point guard QB can do. S9 no we need more than PG Russ.

I think you're confusing point guard with game manager. That, or I've always just thought of "point guard QB" differently, which honestly may be the case. To me, point guard quarterback doesn't necessarily mean limited game manager. In fact, I think of limited game managing quarterbacks as the opposite of effective PG QBs. A point guard QB is a QB that sees the whole field and gets the ball into the hands of his playmakers reliably. They can make all the throws. That's what Russ needs to be.

Point guard quarterbacks are also highly adept at short passing and getting the ball out accurately and on time. They're perfect in the WCO.

I think you will find the prevailing opinion is point guard QB and game manager are the same thing. Wilson despite being called these things has never really been one. You think of the proto typical point guard/game manager think Trent Dilfer when Baltimore won the SB. He was never called on to do anything beyond what any avg QB can do. Wilson even the year we won the Sb was called upon to do things at the time that few Qbs could do.

In that case, I concede the point and agree with you in this case, John. Russell's biggest strengths involve extraordinary efficiency on traditionally low-probability passes, and chaining him down won't help him. But, I think we agree that adding point-guard elements to his game through a passing offense closer to a WCO will help him shine even brighter.

He can be the complete package if Waldron crafts a scheme that allows him to be, and I think we're on the same page as far as where we want the overall direction of the offense to go.

I totaly agree with you.

 

[FresnoHawk52]

If they sign Free WR Agent Curtis Samuel it will solve lots of problems. First it will stop the “no cap space nonsense” 2022 Seahawks are ranked 5th most cap space with their Franchised QB signed = Seahawks are #1 in the NFL in cap space. Everybody knows DE Dunlap is not getting paid 14 Million and they ignore that fact so they can whine, the other fact they ignore is the large # of contracts that are in the final year in 2021, which means Seattle must decide this year what their long term plans are for players like Lockett, D. Brown etc.... signing Curtis Samuel will cost Seattle $8 to $10 million if Carolina doesn’t tag him which they might do because the Franchise Tag is going down this year = Seattle could tag CB Griffith or Chris Carson at the 2018 tag. This will force RW to throw the ball to slot WR Samuel because he’s a stud with 4.3 speed. Samuel can also play RB Gooood several plays a game reducing the work load on our RB’s. If you assume the 2022 cap will be 185 Million Seattle has 99 million cap space in 2022 with RW & BW signed. 2023 the TV contracts are signed so the NFL could jump from 2022 185 Million or more to 2023 230 million Cap Space or more. This whole cap situation is playing right into John Schneider’s hands in fact it’s down right scary how much this situation benefits John Schneider.

 

[HawkRiderFan]

I am with Mealstrom on the point guard debate. To me when people use that in football it means get the ball to your playmakers and let them do their thing. In Russ's case imo it means Russ not having to do it all himself. Have a running game he can rely on. And in the passing game he has 2 1000 yard receivers. Have plays designed to get the ball to them and let them do their thing vs Russ having to hold onto the ball and wait. Whether it's more plays to our TEs or add a slot receiver have that outlet guy in the middle for him to move the chains.

 

[John63]

I am with Mealstrom on the point guard debate. To me when people use that in football it means get the ball to your playmakers and let them do their thing. In Russ's case imo it means Russ not having to do it all himself. Have a running game he can rely on. And in the passing game he has 2 1000 yard receivers. Have plays designed to get the ball to them and let them do their thing vs Russ having to hold onto the ball and wait. Whether it's more plays to our TEs or add a slot receiver have that outlet guy in the middle for him to move the chains.

The problem with that is then you are saying no scrambling, no magic plays, no doing anything but take what may or may not be there, even if it is not enough to keep the chains going. That would be stupid on our part not to allow Wilson to make the magic he makes when we need it. Problem is once again point guards don't do that. We need a scoring point guard. One who can take what's there when it is needed but can also make something out of nothing when needed.

 

[HawkRiderFan]

I am with Mealstrom on the point guard debate. To me when people use that in football it means get the ball to your playmakers and let them do their thing. In Russ's case imo it means Russ not having to do it all himself. Have a running game he can rely on. And in the passing game he has 2 1000 yard receivers. Have plays designed to get the ball to them and let them do their thing vs Russ having to hold onto the ball and wait. Whether it's more plays to our TEs or add a slot receiver have that outlet guy in the middle for him to move the chains.

The problem with that is then you are saying no scrambling, no magic plays, no doing anything but take what may or may not be there, even if it is not enough to keep the chains going. That would be stupid on our part not to allow Wilson to make the magic he makes when we need it. Problem is once again point guards don't do that. We need a scoring point guard. One who can take what's there when it is needed but can also make something out of nothing when needed.

That's you putting word in my mouth. There is absolutely no way that is what I want or am saying. Yeah you are going to have times were Russ uses his magic to make things happen, but that should come as an advantage. Not the main way of how to move the ball down the field. Playing point guard the way we are saying is not neutering Russ's God given ability. That's just the way you are defining point guard.

 

[John63]

I am with Mealstrom on the point guard debate. To me when people use that in football it means get the ball to your playmakers and let them do their thing. In Russ's case imo it means Russ not having to do it all himself. Have a running game he can rely on. And in the passing game he has 2 1000 yard receivers. Have plays designed to get the ball to them and let them do their thing vs Russ having to hold onto the ball and wait. Whether it's more plays to our TEs or add a slot receiver have that outlet guy in the middle for him to move the chains.

The problem with that is then you are saying no scrambling, no magic plays, no doing anything but take what may or may not be there, even if it is not enough to keep the chains going. That would be stupid on our part not to allow Wilson to make the magic he makes when we need it. Problem is once again point guards don't do that. We need a scoring point guard. One who can take what's there when it is needed but can also make something out of nothing when needed.

That's you putting word in my mouth. There is absolutely no way that is what I want or am saying. Yeah you are going to have times were Russ uses his magic to make things happen, but that should come as an advantage. Not the main way of how to move the ball down the field. Playing point guard the way we are saying is not neutering Russ's God given ability. That's just the way you are defining point guard.

But by definition a point guard does nothing more than take what's there and if nothing is there get rid of it. That's not what we need. A point guard runs the play called period. We need more than that, we need someone that can run the play called but also make something out of nothing when the play breaks down.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Come on, supposedly the Seahawks "don't believe in Wilson" so it doesn't really matter :?
People hated him when he was "a robot" and didn't say much.
Now they hate him because he's voicing his opinion.
As always, he can't win with MUCH of the fanbase. I've never seen a player who has done more for a team and organization get more blasted than Russ.

 

[OrangeGravy]

we will know pretty quick, first possession if they snap it with 5 or less, are predictable than PC has neutered him. If we don't and it looks different he has not. All that aside keep in mind just like this year things might go great for a few games than one hiccup, injury or a defense struggling and PC might take control again, and we are back to same old.

If it were that simple, everyone would be a successful coach in the NFL. It isn't anywhere close to the black-and-white "he's neutered or not neutered" description posted here.

There's a guaranteed way for an OC to not get neutered by the head coach. Be good on 3rd down. Don't turn the ball over. Do those things and the points will follow and the coach will leave you alone.

 

[nwHawk]

There's a guaranteed way for an OC to not get neutered by the head coach. Be good on 3rd down. Don't turn the ball over. Do those things and the points will follow and the coach will leave you alone.

I welcome that action.

 

[balakoth]

I am with Mealstrom on the point guard debate. To me when people use that in football it means get the ball to your playmakers and let them do their thing. In Russ's case imo it means Russ not having to do it all himself. Have a running game he can rely on. And in the passing game he has 2 1000 yard receivers. Have plays designed to get the ball to them and let them do their thing vs Russ having to hold onto the ball and wait. Whether it's more plays to our TEs or add a slot receiver have that outlet guy in the middle for him to move the chains.

The problem with that is then you are saying no scrambling, no magic plays, no doing anything but take what may or may not be there, even if it is not enough to keep the chains going. That would be stupid on our part not to allow Wilson to make the magic he makes when we need it. Problem is once again point guards don't do that. We need a scoring point guard. One who can take what's there when it is needed but can also make something out of nothing when needed.

That's you putting word in my mouth. There is absolutely no way that is what I want or am saying. Yeah you are going to have times were Russ uses his magic to make things happen, but that should come as an advantage. Not the main way of how to move the ball down the field. Playing point guard the way we are saying is not neutering Russ's God given ability. That's just the way you are defining point guard.

But by definition a point guard does nothing more than take what's there and if nothing is there get rid of it. That's not what we need. A point guard runs the play called period. We need more than that, we need someone that can run the play called but also make something out of nothing when the play breaks down.

Uhm.. I completely disagree with your "point guard" assessment. THe point guard may run the play, but he also picks the play, he also creates openings himself by seeing open men and those negating the play call.

 

[John63]

The problem with that is then you are saying no scrambling, no magic plays, no doing anything but take what may or may not be there, even if it is not enough to keep the chains going. That would be stupid on our part not to allow Wilson to make the magic he makes when we need it. Problem is once again point guards don't do that. We need a scoring point guard. One who can take what's there when it is needed but can also make something out of nothing when needed.

That's you putting word in my mouth. There is absolutely no way that is what I want or am saying. Yeah you are going to have times were Russ uses his magic to make things happen, but that should come as an advantage. Not the main way of how to move the ball down the field. Playing point guard the way we are saying is not neutering Russ's God given ability. That's just the way you are defining point guard.

But by definition a point guard does nothing more than take what's there and if nothing is there get rid of it. That's not what we need. A point guard runs the play called period. We need more than that, we need someone that can run the play called but also make something out of nothing when the play breaks down.

Uhm.. I completely disagree with your "point guard" assessment. THe point guard may run the play, but he also picks the play, he also creates openings himself by seeing open men and those negating the play call.

Ahh no point guard picks the play the coaches signal in the play form the sidelines. All that aside once agian Wilson is not a point guard Qb PG QBs cannot do what Wilson does.

 

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[Jville]

A telling change I would welcome to hear about, with the arrival of a new offensive coordinator, is an end to reserving a block of practice time for improvisation and scramble exercises. Under the current CBA, practice time was severely reduced. What is available might be better invested in perfecting designed plays.

It might be interesting to keep an eye on Jamarco Jones as a 2021 beneficiary of the arrival of Shane Waldron.