The Seahawks chose Malik McDowell with the 35th pick

[chris98251]

Fergy?

Been a fan long?

 

[Bobblehead]

The Seahawks listened to media buzz in 2009 and drafted Aaron Curry. The alternative player that fans wanted was Mark Sanchez and he didn't fare any better either. It's a big reason why successful teams don't let fans make their draft picks.

Considering that was one of the worst draft.. if not the worst draft class ever, who would you have picked? As bad as he was, he was probably the logical choice, his resume to that point was impressive.

 

[hawkfan68]

The Seahawks listened to media buzz in 2009 and drafted Aaron Curry. The alternative player that fans wanted was Mark Sanchez and he didn't fare any better either. It's a big reason why successful teams don't let fans make their draft picks.

Considering that was one of the worst draft.. if not the worst draft class ever, who would you have picked? As bad as he was, he was probably the logical choice, his resume to that point was impressive.

I disagree that 2009 NFL Draft was one of the worst. That draft had guys like Clay Matthews, Malcolm Jenkins, Andre Smith, BJ Raji, and Matthew Stafford in it. My preference at the time was BJ Raji. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2009/draft.htm

 

[Ozzy]

I've been ultra critical of multiple early picks from this staff but Malik wasn't one of them even though it didn't work out. His talent was off the charts for that point of the draft and was a reasonable dart throw. It just didn't play out.

 

[A-Dog]

The bigger miss was trading down to 31, one pick after T.J. Watt was chosen. Think of how different our pass rush would be right now. Still mad about that.

 

[TwistedHusky]

The same mindset that got us Frank Clark, got us Malik.

It works for us, even though we strike out at times with better draft picks - we hit gold with some later ones.

The problem was we knew, or should have known, we were going to need a safety. Notably a FS.

That we did not get one of the better ones in CFB in a draft that was supposed to be one of the best for secondary in years? Is mindblowing.

We paid the price for this too. In having to trade repeatedly for guys to fill the holes.

It was a dumb move to draft Malik EVEN IF IT HAD WORKED OUT FOR US.

 

[olyfan63]

How many qbs were drafted before russ. How many mlb before bobby. How many wr before dk. How many cb before sherm. How many safeties before kam.....

No organizations gonna bat 1000. Were better than most. Cheer up buttercup.....as I tell my 6 yr old. You have it so much better than when I was a kid.....

To miss so badly on a local guy for someone who never even played a preseason snap?

Ah, come on. This is a bit unfair. Hard to predict if a prospect is going to scramble their brains in an accident or not.

Weren't there character questions about him prior to the decision to ride a four wheeler without a helmet?

John Schneider is on record as saying that the mess with McDowell caused the Seahawks to change the way they draft, to change some baseline criteria. He did not give specifics that I ever heard.

My guess is that they now require, as a minimum, draftees to be smarter than a box of rocks, AND to have shown decent work ethic, work habits. Pete has in the past overdone the Father Flanagan reclamation project thing.

Contrast McDowell with Frank Clark. Clark is a smart guy who had some red flags, but NEVER was there any question in college about Clark's motor, work habits, and teammate qualities/commitment to the team, and it wasn't hard to tell from Clark's communication that he was a highly intelligent guy.

McDowell showed himself to be dumber than a box of rocks and to be inconsistent in his motor and work habits. His interviews were *awful*. Basically, not the kind of person who is a good bet to invest in. His choices that led to his injury were a reflection of the character qualities. Failure to think ahead, failure to consider consequences, thinking himself to be indestructible, in general, just not smart choices, and showing an attitude of "I want what I want, I want it now, and I want it without having to expend even basic thinking effort on taking reasonable precautions, because I'm just freakin indestructible".

So I respectfully disagree with "Hard to predict if a prospect is going to scramble their brains in an accident or not", not in the specific, but in the general. I'd restate this as "It's not that hard to predict if a prospect is more likely to engage in risky and foolish self-centered behavior that puts themselves and others at risk of injury or legal consequences, making themselves unavailable to perform on the field". I'd argue those same qualities affect the type of NFL player the prospect is likely to become.

Without knowing a lot about Dwayne Haskins, it seems to be his character qualities, or lack of sustained work habits, that have resulted in him going from starter to 3rd string under old-school coach Ron Rivera. Whatever your feelings about Cam Newton, Cam and Rivera got along very well.

The team still might place small bets on a few of those guys, just not with the higher draft picks like the one wasted on McDowell. If it was a 6th or 7th round choice we wasted on McDowell, no biggie. Of course, Chris Carson was a 7th rounder, and we've had some amazing hits on 5th rounders, like Kam, Sherman, and others, and occasional hits on 6th rounders, like Jeremy Lane and Byron Maxwell.

I think the team did learn and revise their draft criteria based on the McDowell fiasco. Any future "McDowell profile" prospects are likely to be UDFAs.

 

[Appyhawk]

The draft this year looks like it made a fool out of me! Even if neither Brooks nor Taylor work out they pretty much robbed the till with all their later selections/acquisitions.
Neal looks like the steal of the draft! Swain is contributing. Robinson looks like a future starter. Lewis looks like he could get to all pro. Dallas looks like a sure thing to help us down the line.
Amazing later round haul.

 

[ZagHawk]

and Imagine if the Niners had Aaron Rodgers for the last 15 years.

 

[chris98251]

The draft this year looks like it made a fool out of me! Even if neither Brooks nor Taylor work out they pretty much robbed the till with all their later selections/acquisitions.
Neal looks like the steal of the draft! Swain is contributing. Robinson looks like a future starter. Lewis looks like he could get to all pro. Dallas looks like a sure thing to help us down the line.
Amazing later round haul.

Just imagine if the Seahawks had actually drafted Neal............

 

[Maelstrom787]

To miss so badly on a local guy for someone who never even played a preseason snap?

Ah, come on. This is a bit unfair. Hard to predict if a prospect is going to scramble their brains in an accident or not.

Weren't there character questions about him prior to the decision to ride a four wheeler without a helmet?

John Schneider is on record as saying that the mess with McDowell caused the Seahawks to change the way they draft, to change some baseline criteria. He did not give specifics that I ever heard.

My guess is that they now require, as a minimum, draftees to be smarter than a box of rocks, AND to have shown decent work ethic, work habits. Pete has in the past overdone the Father Flanagan reclamation project thing.

Contrast McDowell with Frank Clark. Clark is a smart guy who had some red flags, but NEVER was there any question in college about Clark's motor, work habits, and teammate qualities/commitment to the team, and it wasn't hard to tell from Clark's communication that he was a highly intelligent guy.

McDowell showed himself to be dumber than a box of rocks and to be inconsistent in his motor and work habits. His interviews were *awful*. Basically, not the kind of person who is a good bet to invest in. His choices that led to his injury were a reflection of the character qualities. Failure to think ahead, failure to consider consequences, thinking himself to be indestructible, in general, just not smart choices, and showing an attitude of "I want what I want, I want it now, and I want it without having to expend even basic thinking effort on taking reasonable precautions, because I'm just freakin indestructible".

So I respectfully disagree with "Hard to predict if a prospect is going to scramble their brains in an accident or not", not in the specific, but in the general. I'd restate this as "It's not that hard to predict if a prospect is more likely to engage in risky and foolish self-centered behavior that puts themselves and others at risk of injury or legal consequences, making themselves unavailable to perform on the field". I'd argue those same qualities affect the type of NFL player the prospect is likely to become.

Without knowing a lot about Dwayne Haskins, it seems to be his character qualities, or lack of sustained work habits, that have resulted in him going from starter to 3rd string under old-school coach Ron Rivera. Whatever your feelings about Cam Newton, Cam and Rivera got along very well.

The team still might place small bets on a few of those guys, just not with the higher draft picks like the one wasted on McDowell. If it was a 6th or 7th round choice we wasted on McDowell, no biggie. Of course, Chris Carson was a 7th rounder, and we've had some amazing hits on 5th rounders, like Kam, Sherman, and others, and occasional hits on 6th rounders, like Jeremy Lane and Byron Maxwell.

I think the team did learn and revise their draft criteria based on the McDowell fiasco. Any future "McDowell profile" prospects are likely to be UDFAs.

I'm not contending that the team didn't learn anything or change anything based on this fiasco, and I'm not saying that McDowell's decision to put himself at risk was a complete detachment from his character.

But, come on. There are examples great football players who have made serious, serious mistakes off the field. Ben Roethlisberger almost killed himself on a bike, Ken Hamlin got his skull knocked in outside of a club, JPP blew his hand apart with fireworks. These are all accidents that happened due to some level of poor decision making. It's very rare, but it isn't unprecedented.

To fault the front office for a prospect getting into a severe, unlikely accident is a bit harsh, no? We should probably acknowledge that character red flags very rarely result in prospects ending their football careers before their first pro snap, even for the boneheaded ones.

If you think the pick wouldn't have worked out anyway and THAT'S your argument, then that's fine. I can't fault you for that. But dinging the front office for this one is beyond what I can justify. Stuff happens, and the McDowell situation was a freak situation. Plus, I mean, it isn't like he was a high first rounder. Top of the second is a good place to take fliers on top-10 talents, and hope you can make it pay off. There's a point there at which this type of guy becomes worth the risk.

 

[Nunya]

How many qbs were drafted before russ. How many mlb before bobby. How many wr before dk. How many cb before sherm. How many safeties before kam.....

No organizations gonna bat 1000. Were better than most. Cheer up buttercup.....as I tell my 6 yr old. You have it so much better than when I was a kid.....

To miss so badly on a local guy for someone who never even played a preseason snap?

Ah, come on. This is a bit unfair. Hard to predict if a prospect is going to scramble their brains in an accident or not.

Weren't there character questions about him prior to the decision to ride a four wheeler without a helmet?

How is riding a 4-wheeler without a helmet a "character question"???? Are you saying you have never ridden a 4-wheeler or a motorcycle without a helmet? Is not using a seat belt now going to be a "character question"? Maybe we should just put players into a cryo sleep chamber when they are not playing.

 

[TypeSly]

McDowell was the #1 guy I wanted going into that draft. He had unreal potential and would have easily been a top 10 pick under different circumstances.

This is what I find so entertaining about the current McDowell discourse - he's exactly the type of player that posters always whine about Pete and John NOT taking a look at. Ridiculously talented players who should go before where they're taken. Kudos to you for posting in here, you were overjoyed at McDowell's pick. I was excited, too.

He was a 20 year old kid with first round talent (hell, top 10 talent) on a team where every player was mailing it in. We have absolutely no clue how he would've turned out as a player if he hadn't Evel Knievel'd himself off a four wheeler. No one seems to remember just how talented McDowell was for a guy available at the top of the second round, but that's the thing: this place likes to act like effort and motor red flags are a predictor of nearly killing yourself in an offroading accident, and that the front office should've predicted that.

I mean, this front office can't win with this board now that the whole "bad at drafting" narrative has set in.



They draft a talented guy who falls? Bad.

They draft a high character guy early instead? Bad.

They draft for a position of need? Should've gone BPA.

They draft BPA? "We don't need a linebacker/safety/cornerback/etc!!!!."

They draft BPA at a position of need? "CBS had this other guy rated higher!!!!! should've filled the hole before it became a need!!!!!"

Draft project linemen? "We need guys who can pass block!"

Draft relatively pro-ready linemen who play multiple positions and don't allow pressures? "Boo, not THAT lineman!" (looking at you, Ethan Pocic draft day reactions)




Hell, 2019's draft has 7 out of 10 players currently contributing on gamedays, including a legitimate STAR in DK Metcalf who was absolutely STOLEN with the very last pick in the 2nd round (over a full round below projection), and we've STILL got people bemoaning that draft.

Just gotta accept that since the narrative has taken hold, people are going to have 20/20 hindsight when looking back to confirm their priors, and selective blindness to the context of the time they're reflecting on. I'm sure the board at the time would have been suuuper fine with the Seahawks, at a time when they had Kam and Earl, taking a freaking safety with their top pick. Place would've burned down.

Another excellent post. Nit-picky fans are ridiculous, expecially when talking about the draft. Since Ferguson has taken over the GM position, we've gone to TWO SB's, won one, and haven't been close to as bad of a team as before. All the fans complaining about draft picks, don't turn around and give credit to the good ones, nevermind that Seattle has the BEST record in the league for turning undrafted prospects into real, everyday NFL'ers. I read somewhere that if 20% of your drafts turned out to be everyday players (not stars), you would be a genius, and it has never happened before. So take that into perspective.

Ferguson is the BEST gm in the league, and our team would be left for dead if we ever let him go.

Ferguson? I've never heard of anyone longing for the Bob Ferguson days.

LOL Sorry too much Hockey in my head. I edited the post. Schneider, I meant

 

[Ozzy]

The draft this year looks like it made a fool out of me! Even if neither Brooks nor Taylor work out they pretty much robbed the till with all their later selections/acquisitions.
Neal looks like the steal of the draft! Swain is contributing. Robinson looks like a future starter. Lewis looks like he could get to all pro. Dallas looks like a sure thing to help us down the line.
Amazing later round haul.

Actually this is a good point and I haven’t given them enough credit. So far it looks like one of their better hauls.

 

[Appyhawk]

I added "acquisitions" for a caveat but Chris caught my "of the draft" blunder. In any case I am really excited by what Neal has shown. If you're going to be a fool best to be a happy fool! :lol:

 

[gowazzu02]

How many qbs were drafted before russ. How many mlb before bobby. How many wr before dk. How many cb before sherm. How many safeties before kam.....

No organizations gonna bat 1000. Were better than most. Cheer up buttercup.....as I tell my 6 yr old. You have it so much better than when I was a kid.....

Best post I've read in a long time. :2thumbs:

Respect :irishdrinkers: