Wilson’s head is the issue not his finger

TwistedHusky

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One game is not a trend.

So one game against a rusty QB and everything is super-OK?

We can acknowledge that the CB play is better after changing the CBs.

Which helped pass defense. But I need to see something besides stopping a rusty QB, even Aaron Rodgers, beforehand.

We are a 3 win team. It might be too late.

Wilson has not been playing for weeks, so most of these failures are on Pete and Pete alone. Wilson came back and had one bad game.

Pete had a string of them.

Whatever Pete fixed better stay fixed, because that is the only way we have a chance. But it isn't good enough to be OK and that is where things are heading. 6-8 wins is a failure in a 17 game season.

I don't even think he gets that.
 

keasley45

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TwistedHusky":2zkad95j said:
One game is not a trend.

So one game against a rusty QB and everything is super-OK?

We can acknowledge that the CB play is better after changing the CBs.

Which helped pass defense. But I need to see something besides stopping a rusty QB, even Aaron Rodgers, beforehand.

We are a 3 win team. It might be too late.

Wilson has not been playing for weeks, so most of these failures are on Pete and Pete alone. Wilson came back and had one bad game.

Pete had a string of them.

Whatever Pete fixed better stay fixed, because that is the only way we have a chance. But it isn't good enough to be OK and that is where things are heading. 6-8 wins is a failure in a 17 game season.

I don't even think he gets that.

Bro, there have been plenty of folks in here saying since the 9ers game that the defense was turning. It was obvious if you took off the 'fan' glasses and assessed what was happening a bit more closely... didn't look at just the final score, but how coverages were working, how the safety play was settling, etc.

It is the definition of a trend and i know it pisses a lot of people off that its true. We stonewalled the rams for a half while the offense slept for half a game. We slapped the Steelers most of the game. We made the Saints, the Kamera's and held the Jags to basically nothing. And then we smack the crap out of GB.

And the weak defense that 'its not real... we're playing garbage teams' was just noise to anyone who actually watched what was happening. GB was just proof. emphatic proof at that.

And Russ did the same dumb Sh!+ against Tennessee that he did Sunday. He did the same stuff against the Rams. And he did the same thing against the Vikings. So, no. its not just 'one bad game'. Its also a trend of foregoing the first downs for big splash plays. Its running the same offense and throwing the ball to the same two Wr's despite having Dissly, Everett, and at the time, having Carson to hand the ball off to.

We were in the bottom half of the league in average drive duration and 3rd down efficiency before he got hurt. <Trend
 

LTH

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TwistedHusky":1fp7emmj said:
One game is not a trend.

So one game against a rusty QB and everything is super-OK?

We can acknowledge that the CB play is better after changing the CBs.

Which helped pass defense. But I need to see something besides stopping a rusty QB, even Aaron Rodgers, beforehand.

We are a 3 win team. It might be too late.

Wilson has not been playing for weeks, so most of these failures are on Pete and Pete alone. Wilson came back and had one bad game.

Pete had a string of them.

Whatever Pete fixed better stay fixed, because that is the only way we have a chance. But it isn't good enough to be OK and that is where things are heading. 6-8 wins is a failure in a 17 game season.

I don't even think he gets that.


What are you even talking about I argued with you for weeks that the D was going to turn and you made me out to be totally crazy...same thing last year...


I'm done for today its not worth my time and energy to point out things you can't or don't want to hear...I watched Keasley 45 surgically dismantle everyone of your and many others points with accuracy and precision and yet you will not give credit where credit is due... what exactly do you want?


LTH
 

John63

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TwistedHusky":17aeyx0w said:
One game is not a trend.

So one game against a rusty QB and everything is super-OK?

We can acknowledge that the CB play is better after changing the CBs.

Which helped pass defense. But I need to see something besides stopping a rusty QB, even Aaron Rodgers, beforehand.

We are a 3 win team. It might be too late.

Wilson has not been playing for weeks, so most of these failures are on Pete and Pete alone. Wilson came back and had one bad game.

Pete had a string of them.

Whatever Pete fixed better stay fixed, because that is the only way we have a chance. But it isn't good enough to be OK and that is where things are heading. 6-8 wins is a failure in a 17 game season.

I don't even think he gets that.

Great post spot on
 

pittpnthrs

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TwistedHusky":gftmhmrq said:
One game is not a trend.

So one game against a rusty QB and everything is super-OK?

We can acknowledge that the CB play is better after changing the CBs.

Which helped pass defense. But I need to see something besides stopping a rusty QB, even Aaron Rodgers, beforehand.

We are a 3 win team. It might be too late.

Wilson has not been playing for weeks, so most of these failures are on Pete and Pete alone. Wilson came back and had one bad game.

Pete had a string of them.

Whatever Pete fixed better stay fixed, because that is the only way we have a chance. But it isn't good enough to be OK and that is where things are heading. 6-8 wins is a failure in a 17 game season.

I don't even think he gets that.

While i'm in agreement with most of this post, I did say I would judge the defense after the GB and Arizona games and so far they are making me look like I was wrong. They have improved. While they arent the 85' Bears like LTH is making them out to be, they certainly dont seem to be awful anymore either.
 

LTH

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pittpnthrs":1yzd3kw6 said:
TwistedHusky":1yzd3kw6 said:
One game is not a trend.

So one game against a rusty QB and everything is super-OK?

We can acknowledge that the CB play is better after changing the CBs.

Which helped pass defense. But I need to see something besides stopping a rusty QB, even Aaron Rodgers, beforehand.

We are a 3 win team. It might be too late.

Wilson has not been playing for weeks, so most of these failures are on Pete and Pete alone. Wilson came back and had one bad game.

Pete had a string of them.

Whatever Pete fixed better stay fixed, because that is the only way we have a chance. But it isn't good enough to be OK and that is where things are heading. 6-8 wins is a failure in a 17 game season.

I don't even think he gets that.

While i'm in agreement with most of this post, I did say I would judge the defense after the GB and Arizona games and so far they are making me look like I was wrong. They have improved. While they arent the 85' Bears like LTH is making them out to be, they certainly dont seem to be awful anymore either.


And how am I making them out to be the 85 bears? all I said was the D has turned and they are improving game by game... this is a formidable D...


LTH
 

keasley45

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Who of you all lives in the Seattle area? Would love to get up there for a game before the season is out and would be great to get together, regardless of position and hang out as Seahawk fans. Some of you drive me nuts at times... but in the end, in the same way that family does i guess. We all want the same thing, the Seahawks to win. Right?

Its just that you guys in the RW camp happen to be completely wrong ;)
 

LTH

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I would go to a game with you guys and I'd even spring for the beer but I can't stand the crowd...it'a a claustrophobia thing...

no hard feelings from me on some intense football talk


LTH
 

toffee

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keasley45":36q8kwkn said:
Who of you all lives in the Seattle area? Would love to get up there for a game before the season is out and would be great to get together, regardless of position and hang out as Seahawk fans. Some of you drive me nuts at times... but in the end, in the same way that family does i guess. We all want the same thing, the Seahawks to win. Right?

Its just that you guys in the RW camp happen to be completely wrong ;)

Hit me up when you come out to see Ram-Hawks in LA, I live 120 miles east near Palm Springs.
 

jamescasey1124

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I'm not a fan of the screenshots..
Only because the whole story isnt being told.

One of the last ones before you showed game against sf. Dk was coming over the middle behind the lb. Problem with that play was he had already released the ball to homer before dk was seen open. Not only that but that was a 1st down to homer. Short and no yac or not. Still a first down.

Another play he missed three recievers on one play and threw deep for int. The crossing routes with guys sitting in zones behind him do not look open running perpendicular to their zones. You cant tell their depth on just a glimpse. Besides he was focused on lockett the entire time. This was on him for bad decision, but could have been established preplay lockett deep regardless. You can pin point it if you want but that play has worked before.

Another dk double route. Was not a dbl route....it was extension of play and if dk commits to it one second sooner it would have been a td.

I have game pass too buddy. Some of your points are justified. Some are not. Those are few plays. Alot more successful ones. I'm not going to ignore those. Yes he did play a bad game, but isnt the reason they lost. He is part of it. The defensive philosophy killed our d by the 3rd quarter. Then screen, screen, screen for multiple yards mauled them. Bs penalties and lack of leadership. all tied together equals a loss.

The problem with the hawks is we havent played a complete team game in years. Defense, offense and special teams.
 

keasley45

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jamescasey1124":2ibq58ne said:
I'm not a fan of the screenshots..
Only because the whole story isnt being told.

One of the last ones before you showed game against sf. Dk was coming over the middle behind the lb. Problem with that play was he had already released the ball to homer before dk was seen open. Not only that but that was a 1st down to homer. Short and no yac or not. Still a first down.

Another play he missed three recievers on one play and threw deep for int. The crossing routes with guys sitting in zones behind him do not look open running perpendicular to their zones. You cant tell their depth on just a glimpse. Besides he was focused on lockett the entire time. This was on him for bad decision, but could have been established preplay lockett deep regardless. You can pin point it if you want but that play has worked before.

Another dk double route. Was not a dbl route....it was extension of play and if dk commits to it one second sooner it would have been a td.

I have game pass too buddy. Some of your points are justified. Some are not. Those are few plays. Alot more successful ones. I'm not going to ignore those. Yes he did play a bad game, but isnt the reason they lost. He is part of it. The defensive philosophy killed our d by the 3rd quarter. Then screen, screen, screen for multiple yards mauled them. Bs penalties and lack of leadership. all tied together equals a loss.

The problem with the hawks is we havent played a complete team game in years. Defense, offense and special teams.

You've got the wrong sf play. And mybpoint was not when wr x was open. It was that the error was made before the ball was snapped. Russ, like he often does, will be presented with what looks to be an obvious blitz and, as was the case in Sf, hikes the ball anyway when there no way the line can pick it up. Simple math. He has a guard and tackle on his left, no backfield help, a DT and DE on his left and blitzing CB. 3 vs 2 without any stunting along the Dline. And he doesn't think for a second to look right where the coverage is 10 yards off. Or that the De on the other side might have to drop and cover the slanting wr across the middle. Less pressure right than left. But he still throws left into the teeth of the defense.

We talk allll the time about how opposing teams get to the line of scrimmage and any seasoned qb will look at our soft coverage and change the play, hike the ball and expose the off cb to pick up a free chunk. This was an example of that AND just basically, stubbornly running a play that had little chance to succeed. Just wasn't smart.

Re the dk play in gb. Your point makes no sense because again in my description, I say plainly, the correct move was for Russ to step up in the pocket. There was no pressure there. He does that and he can loft the ball with ease.. The only pressure was behind him and he literally backed out of the throw and into a sack. Russ could have taken 2 steps forward and thrown the ball easily. I can show you many examples of this where even DK throws an on field tantrum because the ball isn't thrown.

And. there's this thing called anticipation where really great qb's put the ball where the wr is going... throwing a wr open... oh yeah. Pete forbids that, right?

Either way. The views coinside between when russ reaches his drop and when DK breaks to where all he had to do was throw it. Or step up and throw it a half second later.

And the notion that the freeze frames make guys look open is bogus because I didn't sift through a series of stills. I watched the plays where they were running to open space and had enough cushion (in the Swain case, 8 yards) and the ball still wasn't thrown. Nor do I pick plays that are open after the ball is released, unless the point is about reading basic defensive coverages.. And Swain wasn't running through a zone he was below soft coverage. And again, the last GB example was similar to the SF example in that you can look at the playband see that in the first .25 seconds the middle of the field will be open, and instead it's just a catch and throw. These are EXACTLY the kind of plays that Brady and Rodgers and Brees when he played made CONSTANTLY. it's WHY they are great. It's the Chess game at the line of scrimmage. Its the QB knowing exactly what the defense is going to do. The elite guys master chess. Our guy is playing checkers and makes his money buying time for wr's to be in places they were never designed to be.

Maybe I will figure out a way to post video clips so the myth that it's 'just the stills' that make the play look bad or that I'm deliberately making Russ's play look bad can go away.
 

keasley45

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50821932341 0d5352d0b0 z20210110_132740 by J_Otte, on Flickr

Its not cherry picking. These are pivotal plays that stall drives in every game.

50821185178 a9db0e4432 z20210110_132751 by J_Otte, on Flickr

PA Boot. 2nd down. we need 4 yards and Russ is looking for Moore the whole time despite having DK open. He did the same thing at another point in the game on a 4th down and was lucky Moore made a ridiculous catch 30 yards down field.

50821931981 e9cc217ec6 z20210110_132816 by J_Otte, on Flickr

DK wide open well beyond the sticks and with a 4 yard cushion. This is open. Russ never pulls his eyes down from the long route....

50821185613 f256830ec7 z20210110_132610 by J_Otte, on Flickr

instead, freezes, patting the ball after waiting for Moore to come free while DK is now basically just jogging because if he keeps going he runs into coverage. x's and o's no1. When you're number wr is being covered by a LB you give him the ball. If this is GB, Rodgers hits Adams all day every play in this situation. What happens here?

50821931601 2fff85da17 z20210110_132853 by J_Otte, on Flickr

2nd and 4 turns into 3rd and 8 because he takes a sack.

This isnt cherry picking. its looking at plays and trying to figure out why in critical moments, they failed. And their are way too many that are entirely attributable to #3 to warrant this constant - 'Russ is the only thing that's great about this team.' That refrain is repeated over and over again because people see a sack or a completion that nets zero, when often its not making the throw or not anticipating the open opportunity that results in the failure.

This was from our loss in the wildcard round last year. Russ played a horrible game. Simple plays like this were missed several times. The only game last year that was worse was his play vs the Giants.
 

keasley45

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The tendency to forego the easy, drive sustaining play for the splash is a trend going back 3 years now. And...no way in hell DK doesn't get the ball EVERY time he's covered by a LB.

And before the response comes that these are just a few plays, they arent just a few. They are constant. Its not ALL Russ's fault. But for the guy in charge of moving the ball, getting it to where it needs to be and exploiting how defenses attack us, this is the stick by which he is measured.
 

keasley45

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50821235366 c3253e66fa z20210103_175554 by J_Otte, on Flickr

Posted this before. Simple read... Lockett knows he will be open. theres nobody in the middle of the field. the defense has vacated it completely ... and they dont care.

50821235281 29ee830445 z20210103_175623 by J_Otte, on Flickr

Russ reaches his drop and stands there waiting for his WR's to run into coverage deep... Its literally the exact opposite of what he should be doing. The coverage is obvious. The read is obvious.

This should be what... a 15 yard gain?? Its a sack inside the 10 yardline.
 
OP
OP
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keasley45":2efpr3nm said:
50821932341 0d5352d0b0 z20210110_132740 by J_Otte, on Flickr

Its not cherry picking. These are pivotal plays that stall drives in every game.

50821185178 a9db0e4432 z20210110_132751 by J_Otte, on Flickr

PA Boot. 2nd down. we need 4 yards and Russ is looking for Moore the whole time despite having DK open. He did the same thing at another point in the game on a 4th down and was lucky Moore made a ridiculous catch 30 yards down field.

50821931981 e9cc217ec6 z20210110_132816 by J_Otte, on Flickr

DK wide open well beyond the sticks and with a 4 yard cushion. This is open. Russ never pulls his eyes down from the long route....

50821185613 f256830ec7 z20210110_132610 by J_Otte, on Flickr

instead, freezes, patting the ball after waiting for Moore to come free while DK is now basically just jogging because if he keeps going he runs into coverage. x's and o's no1. When you're number wr is being covered by a LB you give him the ball. If this is GB, Rodgers hits Adams all day every play in this situation. What happens here?

50821931601 2fff85da17 z20210110_132853 by J_Otte, on Flickr

2nd and 4 turns into 3rd and 8 because he takes a sack.

This isnt cherry picking. its looking at plays and trying to figure out why in critical moments, they failed. And their are way too many that are entirely attributable to #3 to warrant this constant - 'Russ is the only thing that's great about this team.' That refrain is repeated over and over again because people see a sack or a completion that nets zero, when often its not making the throw or not anticipating the open opportunity that results in the failure.

This was from our loss in the wildcard round last year. Russ played a horrible game. Simple plays like this were missed several times. The only game last year that was worse was his play vs the Giants.

Great stuff. I know he isn't starting material by any measure, however when Geno was in there you could see times where the O was matriculating the ball down the field in an efficient manner and thus sustaining drives. I agree that Russ has let the long ball go to his head and has cost this team a number of times.
 

toffee

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keasley45":28mxujhj said:
jamescasey1124":28mxujhj said:
I'm not a fan of the screenshots..
Only because the whole story isnt being told.

One of the last ones before you showed game against sf. Dk was coming over the middle behind the lb. Problem with that play was he had already released the ball to homer before dk was seen open. Not only that but that was a 1st down to homer. Short and no yac or not. Still a first down.

Another play he missed three recievers on one play and threw deep for int. The crossing routes with guys sitting in zones behind him do not look open running perpendicular to their zones. You cant tell their depth on just a glimpse. Besides he was focused on lockett the entire time. This was on him for bad decision, but could have been established preplay lockett deep regardless. You can pin point it if you want but that play has worked before.

Another dk double route. Was not a dbl route....it was extension of play and if dk commits to it one second sooner it would have been a td.

I have game pass too buddy. Some of your points are justified. Some are not. Those are few plays. Alot more successful ones. I'm not going to ignore those. Yes he did play a bad game, but isnt the reason they lost. He is part of it. The defensive philosophy killed our d by the 3rd quarter. Then screen, screen, screen for multiple yards mauled them. Bs penalties and lack of leadership. all tied together equals a loss.

The problem with the hawks is we havent played a complete team game in years. Defense, offense and special teams.

You've got the wrong sf play. And mybpoint was not when wr x was open. It was that the error was made before the ball was snapped. Russ, like he often does, will be presented with what looks to be an obvious blitz and, as was the case in Sf, hikes the ball anyway when there no way the line can pick it up. Simple math. He has a guard and tackle on his left, no backfield help, a DT and DE on his left and blitzing CB. 3 vs 2 without any stunting along the Dline. And he doesn't think for a second to look right where the coverage is 10 yards off. Or that the De on the other side might have to drop and cover the slanting wr across the middle. Less pressure right than left. But he still throws left into the teeth of the defense.

We talk allll the time about how opposing teams get to the line of scrimmage and any seasoned qb will look at our soft coverage and change the play, hike the ball and expose the off cb to pick up a free chunk. This was an example of that AND just basically, stubbornly running a play that had little chance to succeed. Just wasn't smart.

Re the dk play in gb. Your point makes no sense because again in my description, I say plainly, the correct move was for Russ to step up in the pocket. There was no pressure there. He does that and he can loft the ball with ease.. The only pressure was behind him and he literally backed out of the throw and into a sack. Russ could have taken 2 steps forward and thrown the ball easily. I can show you many examples of this where even DK throws an on field tantrum because the ball isn't thrown.

And. there's this thing called anticipation where really great qb's put the ball where the wr is going... throwing a wr open... oh yeah. Pete forbids that, right?

Either way. The views coinside between when russ reaches his drop and when DK breaks to where all he had to do was throw it. Or step up and throw it a half second later.

And the notion that the freeze frames make guys look open is bogus because I didn't sift through a series of stills. I watched the plays where they were running to open space and had enough cushion (in the Swain case, 8 yards) and the ball still wasn't thrown. Nor do I pick plays that are open after the ball is released, unless the point is about reading basic defensive coverages.. And Swain wasn't running through a zone he was below soft coverage. And again, the last GB example was similar to the SF example in that you can look at the playband see that in the first .25 seconds the middle of the field will be open, and instead it's just a catch and throw. These are EXACTLY the kind of plays that Brady and Rodgers and Brees when he played made CONSTANTLY. it's WHY they are great. It's the Chess game at the line of scrimmage. Its the QB knowing exactly what the defense is going to do. The elite guys master chess. Our guy is playing checkers and makes his money buying time for wr's to be in places they were never designed to be.

Maybe I will figure out a way to post video clips so the myth that it's 'just the stills' that make the play look bad or that I'm deliberately making Russ's play look bad can go away.
You sir are devaluing trade value of our franchise QB. Sticking to narratives how Russ has been wrong by Pete enhances Russ's trade value.

My beef with Pete has been selling his soul to Russ, then Pete's failure to trade Russ last off season, nail in the heart? Hiring of Shane.

We 12s must perform our duty to boost Russ's trade value. Oh well.

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk
 

TwistedHusky

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Setting the invective/venting aside.

Not disputing the stills 45,

But what is the take?

If Wilson cannot be effective for Pete, then we need a coach that can find ways of making him effective.

Pete improving the defense and run game does not help us.

It just gets us right back to where we were for years,

A team that squeaks into the playoffs and get bounced in division games.


It sure looks like teams with good defense, good or great run games, and average or even slightly above average QBs do not go far in the playoffs. Usually, they don't even seem to advance. Once or twice you get someone like the Browns beating the Steelers, and the Browns had by far one of the best rushing attacks in the league (non-QB).

The NFL rules reward prolific scoring teams and QBs. We have one but we are not leveraging it.

Betting on Wilson may be a flaming disaster based on your observations. But what is the alternative? It looks like more years like the past 3. Worse, if/when we lose Wilson.
 

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keasley45":3umhxc0t said:
50821932341 0d5352d0b0 z20210110_132740 by J_Otte, on Flickr

Its not cherry picking. These are pivotal plays that stall drives in every game.

50821185178 a9db0e4432 z20210110_132751 by J_Otte, on Flickr

PA Boot. 2nd down. we need 4 yards and Russ is looking for Moore the whole time despite having DK open. He did the same thing at another point in the game on a 4th down and was lucky Moore made a ridiculous catch 30 yards down field.

50821931981 e9cc217ec6 z20210110_132816 by J_Otte, on Flickr

DK wide open well beyond the sticks and with a 4 yard cushion. This is open. Russ never pulls his eyes down from the long route....

50821185613 f256830ec7 z20210110_132610 by J_Otte, on Flickr

instead, freezes, patting the ball after waiting for Moore to come free while DK is now basically just jogging because if he keeps going he runs into coverage. x's and o's no1. When you're number wr is being covered by a LB you give him the ball. If this is GB, Rodgers hits Adams all day every play in this situation. What happens here?

50821931601 2fff85da17 z20210110_132853 by J_Otte, on Flickr

2nd and 4 turns into 3rd and 8 because he takes a sack.

This isnt cherry picking. its looking at plays and trying to figure out why in critical moments, they failed. And their are way too many that are entirely attributable to #3 to warrant this constant - 'Russ is the only thing that's great about this team.' That refrain is repeated over and over again because people see a sack or a completion that nets zero, when often its not making the throw or not anticipating the open opportunity that results in the failure.

This was from our loss in the wildcard round last year. Russ played a horrible game. Simple plays like this were missed several times. The only game last year that was worse was his play vs the Giants.
Image what went though Shotty's mind holding the play charts.

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LTH

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TwistedHusky":2n2cqvoi said:
Setting the invective/venting aside.

Not disputing the stills 45,

But what is the take?

If Wilson cannot be effective for Pete, then we need a coach that can find ways of making him effective.

Pete improving the defense and run game does not help us.

It just gets us right back to where we were for years,

A team that squeaks into the playoffs and get bounced in division games.


It sure looks like teams with good defense, good or great run games, and average or even slightly above average QBs do not go far in the playoffs. Usually, they don't even seem to advance. Once or twice you get someone like the Browns beating the Steelers, and the Browns had by far one of the best rushing attacks in the league (non-QB).

The NFL rules reward prolific scoring teams and QBs. We have one but we are not leveraging it.

Betting on Wilson may be a flaming disaster based on your observations. But what is the alternative? It looks like more years like the past 3. Worse, if/when we lose Wilson.


All these things are correctable. Wilson just needs to make some adjustments just like every great QB in history. As far as Pete it remains to be seen if he can get Wilson to "get it". I personally think Wilson is going to make this adjustment vs AZ. I think he was embarrassed by his play in GB and I'm hoping he does what is necessary to win.. we will see...
 
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