Granted I'm in Philly territory but the Eagles fans are really claiming Clowney has always been a dirty player. I didn't watch many Houston games but I don't remember any plays this he was even close to being dirty.



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No, he’s not dirty, they’re just mad that he took out Wentz.

Was the hit dirty? It was borderline. Had that been Wilson that got taken out, we would all be upset.

Is he a dirty player? No

No. Was not intentional.

Clowney didn’t take out Wentz, The turf turf did

I’ve watched many Texans games.

I’d say unequivocally NO.

Football is a violent game that’s played at high speed with lots of passion.
Things happen from time to time that make certain plays appear “dirty”.

We know who the dirty players are, we see the “time to time” incidents happen more often than not with them.

First, I saw this live without sound, because we caught lunch in this bar that doesn't turn on sound unless it's for the 49ers. I saw some replays once I actually got home to watch the game.

Second, 'm trying to look at this objectively. Like if this had been a play by Fletcher or by Bosa on Russ, how many people would be enraged by no flag? Let alone no ejection?

Objectively, I was surprised when I first saw it. There was clearly H2H contact, and even if not punished straight away, it usually is when the QB is down (i.e. Earl's hit on Mason Rudolph).

I watched the Vontaze Burfect hit on Boyle when it happened. This to my untrained eye appeared very similar.

Can someone explain why this did not merit a flag and/or a DQ, just objectively? Is this a dirty hit, and why or why not?

Thanks.

Wentz was a runner who did not give himself up.

How many steps did Clowney take after Wentz was down? <1

I dont know about his past, he hasnt been dirty here. But that was a dirty hit. Helmet to helmet easy call. I have been pissed because the refs dont protect RW more. Philly fans have a right to be pissed now.

Im glad it was on Wentz and not Wilson.

Wentz was a runner... He didn't give himself up... Clowney got him from behind... The helmet to helmet was incidental...
His face planting in the turf is what concussed him.... He should have slid to avoid the hit.... On to Green Bay.

Merged treads on the same topic.

pmedic920 wrote:I’ve watched many Texans games.

I’d say unequivocally NO.

Football is a violent game that’s played at high speed with lots of passion.
Things happen from time to time that make certain plays appear “dirty”.

We know who the dirty players are, we see the “time to time” incidents happen more often than not with them.

Spot on pmedic. The speed at which this stuff happens makes incidents like this inevitable. Problem is we see replays in slow motion and we make judgement based on that. I will agree Clowney needs to learn to keep his head up though. That is how you can avoid the H2H thing. An important factor is that Wentz was in the process of going down, but he did not slide. That means he is a live runner and fair game for contact. It was not a late hit.

Watch Clay Mathews if you want to see a dirty player

justafan wrote:I dont know about his past, he hasnt been dirty here. But that was a dirty hit. Helmet to helmet easy call. I have been pissed because the refs dont protect RW more. Philly fans have a right to be pissed now.

Im glad it was on Wentz and not Wilson.

I dont have a problem with the argument that it should have been a penalty.

But Dirty insinuates that Clowney was hoping to hurt Wentz with malicious intent. Since he has no history of that, what did you see on that play that convinces you he was trying to maliciously hurt Wentz?

No. He’s not dirty. I don’t think Clowney tried to kill shot Wentz. That being said, if it was college football, Clowney would have likely been ejected after a replay review for targeting. I feel for the Philly fans. I really do, but I don’t think Clowney tried to knock out Wentz.

Hawkpower wrote:

justafan wrote:I dont know about his past, he hasnt been dirty here. But that was a dirty hit. Helmet to helmet easy call. I have been pissed because the refs dont protect RW more. Philly fans have a right to be pissed now.

Im glad it was on Wentz and not Wilson.

I dont have a problem with the argument that it should have been a penalty.

But Dirty insinuates that Clowney was hoping to hurt Wentz with malicious intent. Since he has no history of that, what did you see on that play that convinces you he was trying to maliciously hurt Wentz?

IMO he intentionally targeted Wentzes head and lowered his helmet. I would hate to see Wilson go down like that. Everybody would have lost it on that one.Wilson took a shot in the back that should have been called. The league knows the QBs are the lifeblood of most teams but they dont protect them equally.
I hope I am wrong. Its just my opinion.

If it were Russ would I be angry, sure. So I get why Philly fans are mad, but if i'm being objective they made the right call. My bias would have me pissed, as there bias has them pissed. Nobody wants to lose their starting qb. JD isn't a dirty player, never has been. Wentz didn't give himself up, Ryan Clark said it, you play to the whistle and you're going to get in your shot because that's your job, he went for the hit and there was some contact. You don't want to take the hit give yourself up. As much I don't like seeing players get injured it couldn't happen to a nicer fan base. Outside san fran, Philly fans are the worst...their whining brings me endless joy.

Don't know if he's a dirty player or not. On the play in question -- in slomo, especially -- he does this weird thing where it sorta looks like he snaps/c0(k$ his head at Wentz's dome right there as he makes contact. I don't think in real time that it look "forceful", like a true, Steeler-style crown-to-earhole kill shot.

So looks like an easy penalty to me, especially given the outcome (which matters, and should always matter, IMO.) But no ejection with the rules as they stand.

All this silliness about rules that apply to a PASSER, when Wentz was a RUNNER who did not give himself up. Clowney is chasing him and trying to make a diving tackle from behind, a type of tackle he made several times this game, including a tackle on McCown from behind. When you are trying to make a tackle like that, it's natural for the player's head to be forward. No dirtiness, and the hit came from an acceleration action that whipped Wentz head into the ground.

If Wentz doesn't want to get hit, he needed to slide and give himself up. End of story.

I don't think so. But it is a play that could possibly have been called a penalty. Or you could look at it as unintentional as the refs did.

It was an illegal play

This is not college - that was not an ejection

It should have been 15 yard and that is it

justafan wrote:

Hawkpower wrote:

justafan wrote:I dont know about his past, he hasnt been dirty here. But that was a dirty hit. Helmet to helmet easy call. I have been pissed because the refs dont protect RW more. Philly fans have a right to be pissed now.

Im glad it was on Wentz and not Wilson.

I dont have a problem with the argument that it should have been a penalty.

But Dirty insinuates that Clowney was hoping to hurt Wentz with malicious intent. Since he has no history of that, what did you see on that play that convinces you he was trying to maliciously hurt Wentz?

IMO he intentionally targeted Wentzes head and lowered his helmet. I would hate to see Wilson go down like that. Everybody would have lost it on that one.Wilson took a shot in the back that should have been called. The league knows the QBs are the lifeblood of most teams but they dont protect them equally.
I hope I am wrong. Its just my opinion.

So you think Clowney was hoping to illicit an injury from Wentz?

Not sure thats fair considering his lack of history in that regard.

Considering the speed of the play, and the fact that he was a runner, I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

olyfan63 wrote:All this silliness about rules that apply to a PASSER, when Wentz was a RUNNER who did not give himself up. Clowney is chasing him and trying to make a diving tackle from behind, a type of tackle he made several times this game, including a tackle on McCown from behind. When you are trying to make a tackle like that, it's natural for the player's head to be forward. No dirtiness, and the hit came from an acceleration action that whipped Wentz head into the ground.

If Wentz doesn't want to get hit, he needed to slide and give himself up. End of story.

Every ballcarrier is supposed to be protected and it doesnt really matter what intentions Clowney had. It was helmet to helmet. Thats supposed to be flag.

CHawk wrote:Granted I'm in Philly territory but the Eagles fans are really claiming Clowney has always been a dirty player. I didn't watch many Houston games but I don't remember any plays this he was even close to being dirty.



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LOL! Give them a towel to cry in. Besides, McCown did a better job than Wentz.

Methinks Philly got rid of the wrong QB?

LymonHawk wrote:

CHawk wrote:Granted I'm in Philly territory but the Eagles fans are really claiming Clowney has always been a dirty player. I didn't watch many Houston games but I don't remember any plays this he was even close to being dirty.



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LOL! Give them a towel to cry in. Besides, McCown did a better job than Wentz.

Methinks Philly got rid of the wrong QB?

The boo birds!

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olyfan63 wrote:All this silliness about rules that apply to a PASSER, when Wentz was a RUNNER who did not give himself up. Clowney is chasing him and trying to make a diving tackle from behind, a type of tackle he made several times this game, including a tackle on McCown from behind. When you are trying to make a tackle like that, it's natural for the player's head to be forward. No dirtiness, and the hit came from an acceleration action that whipped Wentz head into the ground.

If Wentz doesn't want to get hit, he needed to slide and give himself up. End of story.

Russell deals with that at least one time a game, if you run your goin g to get hit and they hit Wilson a lot harder and more frequently.

mikeak wrote:It was an illegal play

This is not college - that was not an ejection

It should have been 15 yard and that is it

Technically true, but it was iffy, especially in real time. If the refs even noticed it, it was probably considered incidental contact. Eagles just needed an excuse for losing. Lame.

justafan wrote:

olyfan63 wrote:All this silliness about rules that apply to a PASSER, when Wentz was a RUNNER who did not give himself up. Clowney is chasing him and trying to make a diving tackle from behind, a type of tackle he made several times this game, including a tackle on McCown from behind. When you are trying to make a tackle like that, it's natural for the player's head to be forward. No dirtiness, and the hit came from an acceleration action that whipped Wentz head into the ground.

If Wentz doesn't want to get hit, he needed to slide and give himself up. End of story.

Every ballcarrier is supposed to be protected and it doesnt really matter what intentions Clowney had. It was helmet to helmet. Thats supposed to be flag.

Fine, share a video example of a similar NFL hit that was flagged, under current rules.
You know, use that ["youtube ] brackets tag thing, post it here, if it exists.
"Supposed to be protected", lol. The only way to protect yourself is not to be a runner against an NFL defense.

Or are you saying the refs "steered" the game towards the Seahawks for once?

CHawk wrote:Granted I'm in Philly territory but the Eagles fans are really claiming Clowney has always been a dirty player. I didn't watch many Houston games but I don't remember any plays this he was even close to being dirty.



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Ask your friends how many points Eagles scored in week 12, when Wentz played all game?

LymonHawk wrote:

CHawk wrote:Granted I'm in Philly territory but the Eagles fans are really claiming Clowney has always been a dirty player. I didn't watch many Houston games but I don't remember any plays this he was even close to being dirty.



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Ask your friends how many points Eagles scored in week 12, when Wentz played all game?

You can't argue with Eagles fans they just bring you down to their level.

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Tusc2000 wrote:

mikeak wrote:It was an illegal play

This is not college - that was not an ejection

It should have been 15 yard and that is it

Technically true, but it was iffy, especially in real time. If the refs even noticed it, it was probably considered incidental contact. Eagles just needed an excuse for losing. Lame.

I dont disagree. First time I saw it I thought it was legal and didn't see head to head contact

First non-slo video I saw I thought it was incidental

It took a slo-mo video for me to see that he went straight at him head to head

Will be a fine by the NFL but understand why they missed the flag

More understandable than missing the offside or the blatant holds springing multiple eagles runs

I don’t know his full history but he hasn’t looked one but dirty this season and I’d include that play. That was a bang bang play the contact didn’t look malicious at all. If they’d have called a penalty I wouldn’t have complained but I can see why they didn’t as well.

Emotions are understandably high. I can understand any Eagle fan being frustrated at losing their QB there but I don’t think Clowney is dirty

LymonHawk wrote:

CHawk wrote:Granted I'm in Philly territory but the Eagles fans are really claiming Clowney has always been a dirty player. I didn't watch many Houston games but I don't remember any plays this he was even close to being dirty.



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Ask your friends how many points Eagles scored in week 12, when Wentz played all game?

Tney're saying Clowney did this to Wentz in 2018:

https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/202 ... mccown-nfl

Jerhawk wrote:Was the hit dirty? It was borderline. Had that been Wilson that got taken out, we would all be upset.

Is he a dirty player? No

I can legitimately, honestly, 100% say I would not have been upset at a player. Wentz had a lot of forward momentum, Clowney hit from behind with very little force; it's the ground that did the damage. That's just bad luck. If it had been Wilson I'd have been upset at the bad luck, not the Eagles player in Clowney's position.

Request, if a fine comes out from the NFL for Clowney, will whoever sees it first post that info here or in a new thread?
It will be interesting to see. My bet is no fine coming, but, hey, I've been wrong before.

He was a runner who failed to give himself up. The ref agreed and stated as much. I doubt the league will give out a fine unless they want to look even more stupid than already the case. Just leave it alone.

Adjusting my opinion slightly: From replays, it looks like part of Clowney's intent was to try to strip the ball from behind before Wentz hit the ground. Not a bad idea, and not executed very well, but not a dirty play.

Reaneypark wrote:No. He’s not dirty. I don’t think Clowney tried to kill shot Wentz. That being said, if it was college football, Clowney would have likely been ejected after a replay review for targeting. I feel for the Philly fans. I really do, but I don’t think Clowney tried to knock out Wentz.

He still could have: "In the NFL, helmet-to-helmet hits are banned, with a penalty of 15 yards for violations. ... In 2017, NFL has adopted the NCAA's "targeting" rules, which will not only penalize players, but will review the play and automatically throw any offenders out from the game."

Either way it doesn't matter what would/could have happened afterwards if they did throw a flag. MCClown was coming in no matter what and they had two shots in the red zone and missed on both.

Borderline penalty IMO. Imagine Wentz was a RB. That never gets called when two players are going to the ground. But sometimes refs give QBs protection even when it’s not in the rules to do so.

That being said, I’ve seen Russ give himself up sliding and been nailed in the head just as hard. No penalty. Refs see it in real time and it almost always seems nasty in slo mo. Real time makes it seem bang bang and incidental.

Nonetheless I’ve seen Clowney drop his head into QBs 3 times this year. Twice in the chest this one in the head. He needs to break that habit or he’ll get more flags. Wouldn’t say he’s dirty, but poorly coached early in his career.

Cyrus12 wrote:No. Was not intentional.

If Wentz hadn't lunged at the last moment, Clowney hits him in the back/shoulder instead, which I think is what he was trying to do. Still unnecessary, but I don't believe for a second that he was headhunting. Philly fans acting like he's Burfict out there with 15 prior offenses.

Ive watched it multiple times and it looks like McDougal starts the tackle and Wentz is going down, however he puts his arm down to brace his fall and possibly get an extra stretch yard. With his arm down, it rotated him to the left and left his head up. Clowney was finishing the tackle as i have seen quite a few times on running backs. Its part of being a physical team. Number one, he doesnt slide, number two he has his head up going to the ground. Doesn't look dirty to me, Wentz ducks his head, Clowney slides over him.

justafan wrote:

olyfan63 wrote:All this silliness about rules that apply to a PASSER, when Wentz was a RUNNER who did not give himself up. Clowney is chasing him and trying to make a diving tackle from behind, a type of tackle he made several times this game, including a tackle on McCown from behind. When you are trying to make a tackle like that, it's natural for the player's head to be forward. No dirtiness, and the hit came from an acceleration action that whipped Wentz head into the ground.

If Wentz doesn't want to get hit, he needed to slide and give himself up. End of story.

Every ballcarrier is supposed to be protected and it doesnt really matter what intentions Clowney had. It was helmet to helmet. Thats supposed to be flag.

So was the off sides they didn't call that would have given us a first down . We kicked a field goal because of that and it was blocked. There's always missed calls in these games I thought it was officiated well for the most part. No mention from you of the tackle on Wilson from behind long after he had thrown the ball. That was a cheap shot . The helmet to helmet on Wentz was unfortunate but almost everyone agree's it was incidental and Carson was a ball carrier at that point so Clowney was within his rights to tackle him. Your opinion is noted but not note worthy .

Not dirty, just awkward and unfortunate


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justafan wrote:

Hawkpower wrote:

justafan wrote:I dont know about his past, he hasnt been dirty here. But that was a dirty hit. Helmet to helmet easy call. I have been pissed because the refs dont protect RW more. Philly fans have a right to be pissed now.

Im glad it was on Wentz and not Wilson.

I dont have a problem with the argument that it should have been a penalty.

But Dirty insinuates that Clowney was hoping to hurt Wentz with malicious intent. Since he has no history of that, what did you see on that play that convinces you he was trying to maliciously hurt Wentz?

IMO he intentionally targeted Wentzes head and lowered his helmet. I would hate to see Wilson go down like that. Everybody would have lost it on that one.Wilson took a shot in the back that should have been called. The league knows the QBs are the lifeblood of most teams but they dont protect them equally.
I hope I am wrong. Its just my opinion.

Yes it's just your opinion and I totally disagree with it.

Yes he is.

Go Niners!

Full speed doesn't look like much at all. Looks almost like trying to hold up and go over him.

olyfan63 wrote:

justafan wrote:

olyfan63 wrote:All this silliness about rules that apply to a PASSER, when Wentz was a RUNNER who did not give himself up. Clowney is chasing him and trying to make a diving tackle from behind, a type of tackle he made several times this game, including a tackle on McCown from behind. When you are trying to make a tackle like that, it's natural for the player's head to be forward. No dirtiness, and the hit came from an acceleration action that whipped Wentz head into the ground.

If Wentz doesn't want to get hit, he needed to slide and give himself up. End of story.

Every ballcarrier is supposed to be protected and it doesnt really matter what intentions Clowney had. It was helmet to helmet. Thats supposed to be flag.

Fine, share a video example of a similar NFL hit that was flagged, under current rules.
You know, use that ["youtube ] brackets tag thing, post it here, if it exists.
"Supposed to be protected", lol. The only way to protect yourself is not to be a runner against an NFL defense.

Or are you saying the refs "steered" the game towards the Seahawks for once?

How can you argue or need proof that the NFL makes it a point to protect players by flagging helmet to helmet? The helmet rule changed the way the game is taught and coached from little league all the way to the pros. It changed the way game is played . It wasnt steered it just wasnt called.

If a player lowers his head and hit Wilson like that I would be pissed.

That H to H hit was not called so I will accept it ; just like last week the non PI call on Hollister . I works both ways .

xray wrote:That H to H hit was not called so I will accept it ; just like last week the non PI call on Hollister . I works both ways .

Exactly how I feel as well.

They both should have been called. Neither were. That they should have been called doesn't change anything about what has already happened.