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Silence Is Deafening

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Silence Is Deafening
Fri Feb 12, 2021 10:08 pm
  • All these different Russ threads have been mind numbing to say the least. But let's face it, this is the biggest talk of the NFL at the moment and quite frankly it's a topic I NEVER would have thought would be happening coming off of a 12-4 season and division championship in what is widely known as the toughest division in the NFL.

    I'm not wanting to get into the Why's and the How's nor the Where Do We Go From Here's. Those have been debated ad nauseum in this forum for weeks and weeks, in many cases by X's and O's minds much better than my own.

    No, what I want to talk about is the silence being felt right now by Pete Carroll and the organization in general.

    While I understand Russell's frustrations, I, along with most of you, am baffled by the timing, the delivery and the seemingly calculatedness of it all. Just coming off watching him and Ciara's segment on Ellen earlier today where they were pumping up their perfume/cologne brand, their GQ cover spread...I have officially come to the conclusion that Russell Wilson has decided his "legacy", his brand, is more important to him than team.

    Not even the GOAT has ANYWHERE NEAR the level of public drive for his brand, like tentacles, breaching multiple media and platforms and product lines.

    So that all brings me to my point. The silence from the organization.

    I don't get it. This is the time for Pete Carroll to come out, and make a statement to the fans, to the NFL world about how much they value Russell, how they have no plans to trade him AT ALL, etc, etc, etc.

    But instead? No rebuttal. No comments.

    Silence.

    That doesn't just underscore what many have said, which is that the organization is pissed off that Russell has taken to the media to call out his OL and his general lack of appreciation for being one of the most sacked QBs in the NFL for basically all of his career, but more importantly their lack of saying anything to me indicates that we really have come to the end of the Russell Wilson Era in Seattle.

    Whether it's a Lame Duck final 2021 season or he gets traded this offseason, I am not sure. But make no mistake about it, we are staring the end of the Golden Years square in the face and I for one am shocked and saddened it's come to this.
    Aros
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Fri Feb 12, 2021 10:22 pm
  • Aros wrote:All these different Russ threads have been mind numbing to say the least. But let's face it, this is the biggest talk of the NFL at the moment and quite frankly it's a topic I NEVER would have thought would be happening coming off of a 12-4 season and division championship in what is widely known as the toughest division in the NFL.

    I'm not wanting to get into the Why's and the How's nor the Where Do We Go From Here's. Those have been debated ad nauseum in this forum for weeks and weeks, in many cases by X's and O's minds much better than my own.

    No, what I want to talk about is the silence being felt right now by Pete Carroll and the organization in general.

    While I understand Russell's frustrations, I, along with most of you, am baffled by the timing, the delivery and the seemingly calculatedness of it all. Just coming off watching him and Ciara's segment on Ellen earlier today where they were pumping up their perfume/cologne brand, their GQ cover spread...I have officially come to the conclusion that Russell Wilson has decided his "legacy", his brand, is more important to him than team.

    Not even the GOAT has ANYWHERE NEAR the level of public drive for his brand, like tentacles, breaching multiple media and platforms and product lines.

    So that all brings me to my point. The silence from the organization.

    I don't get it. This is the time for Pete Carroll to come out, and make a statement to the fans, to the NFL world about how much they value Russell, how they have no plans to trade him AT ALL, etc, etc, etc.

    But instead? No rebuttal. No comments.

    Silence.

    That doesn't just underscore what many have said, which is that the organization is pissed off that Russell has taken to the media to call out his OL and his general lack of appreciation for being one of the most sacked QBs in the NFL for basically all of his career, but more importantly their lack of saying anything to me indicates that we really have come to the end of the Russell Wilson Era in Seattle.

    Whether it's a Lame Duck final 2021 season or he gets traded this offseason, I am not sure. But make no mistake about it, we are staring the end of the Golden Years square in the face and I for one am shocked and saddened it's come to this.

    Aros, none of us here on dot net know for a fact Wilson’s departure from the team is for sure.

    Maybe it is and maybe it isn’t.

    But it usually requires a big change in order for a change within the organization amongst the executives in the front office.

    Its inevitable man. Big changes among all sports teams are bound to happen at some point.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:18 pm
  • Aros wrote:All these different Russ threads have been mind numbing to say the least. But let's face it, this is the biggest talk of the NFL at the moment and quite frankly it's a topic I NEVER would have thought would be happening coming off of a 12-4 season and division championship in what is widely known as the toughest division in the NFL.

    I'm not wanting to get into the Why's and the How's nor the Where Do We Go From Here's. Those have been debated ad nauseum in this forum for weeks and weeks, in many cases by X's and O's minds much better than my own.

    No, what I want to talk about is the silence being felt right now by Pete Carroll and the organization in general.

    While I understand Russell's frustrations, I, along with most of you, am baffled by the timing, the delivery and the seemingly calculatedness of it all. Just coming off watching him and Ciara's segment on Ellen earlier today where they were pumping up their perfume/cologne brand, their GQ cover spread...I have officially come to the conclusion that Russell Wilson has decided his "legacy", his brand, is more important to him than team.

    Not even the GOAT has ANYWHERE NEAR the level of public drive for his brand, like tentacles, breaching multiple media and platforms and product lines.

    So that all brings me to my point. The silence from the organization.

    I don't get it. This is the time for Pete Carroll to come out, and make a statement to the fans, to the NFL world about how much they value Russell, how they have no plans to trade him AT ALL, etc, etc, etc.

    But instead? No rebuttal. No comments.

    Silence.

    That doesn't just underscore what many have said, which is that the organization is pissed off that Russell has taken to the media to call out his OL and his general lack of appreciation for being one of the most sacked QBs in the NFL for basically all of his career, but more importantly their lack of saying anything to me indicates that we really have come to the end of the Russell Wilson Era in Seattle.

    Whether it's a Lame Duck final 2021 season or he gets traded this offseason, I am not sure. But make no mistake about it, we are staring the end of the Golden Years square in the face and I for one am shocked and saddened it's come to this.

    I lurked on this forum for quite a long time. I'm 47. I've been a fan since inception. Always been more of a "reader" of forums and not interested in posting much until the 2013 run. I have always been a Wilson defender at heart while reading a lot of the negative stuff about his play over the earlier years. As the years have gone by and the offense has the same issues from year to year and coordinator to coordinator, most people have been putting that on Pete. For me it's the other constant through those years, Russell. It still wasn't enough for me to think he wasn't the guy though, Until that word started popping up in every single interview that wasn't a post game reaction type interview. LEGACY.

    That one word almost completely turned me 180 degrees on Russell. That frequency of that one word coming out of his mouth combined with me, my, and I. That one word was spawned the "let russ cook" movement started by Team 3 (if that isn't obnoxious enough). The straw that broke this camel's back was the post game presser a few games into his turnover meltdown where he went on and on about how he knows he's GREAT like he was trying to convince himself. As soon as I heard that, I was done with Russell win or lose. The whole saga has been orchestrated with the starting point being the NY rumors like a management agency trying to turn a mediocre actor into a mega-star. Shallow, cheap, and horribly obvious. This public stunt just showed his teammates his other face if they didn't already see it. This also made me revisit the old Sherman and other's view of Russell and say maybe they were onto something.

    Not one legit all time QB has openly gone on a legacy campaign prior to having cemented their status as all time great. Hell, I don't think any all time great QB has even discussed it until they're on the cusp of retirement and then only reluctantly brushing it off. Russell has lost the plot. He thinks he's already an all time great QB. I've said it a few times in other threads and other places, but I think the crowning of Mahomes crushed his ego. Mahomes is the only QB younger than Russell to challenge his "place" of taking over the game post Brady/Brees/Rogers/Peyton etc....and he couldn't handle it. The push for stars, the push for throwing more, the push for legacy, all came after Mahomes blew the NFL up his first 2 seasons.

    Russell went from winning being the only thing that mattered, to LEGACY being the only thing that matters. Winning is only important now because it's the means to the LEGACY. Once winning gets reduced to only a means to an end, nothing but poor decisions follow. It's also why I think he'll suffer similar results anywhere else he goes.

    That's my theory anyway and that's why I would rather they rip the Band-Aid off right now than go through 1 more season lame duck season. He's not signing another contract here, so what's the point.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:24 pm
  • I feel the same except I think we still have a first class organization and finding a QB that will have success on a team that is a top 5 run game and a top 5 D will be easier than people think.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:56 am
  • Wenhawk wrote:I feel the same except I think we still have a first class organization and finding a QB that will have success on a team that is a top 5 run game and a top 5 D will be easier than people think.


    Do you mind saying what your definition of "success" is in this context? Do you have any examples of that happening to support your feelings?
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:32 am
  • OrangeGravy wrote:
    Aros wrote:All these different Russ threads have been mind numbing to say the least. But let's face it, this is the biggest talk of the NFL at the moment and quite frankly it's a topic I NEVER would have thought would be happening coming off of a 12-4 season and division championship in what is widely known as the toughest division in the NFL.

    I'm not wanting to get into the Why's and the How's nor the Where Do We Go From Here's. Those have been debated ad nauseum in this forum for weeks and weeks, in many cases by X's and O's minds much better than my own.

    No, what I want to talk about is the silence being felt right now by Pete Carroll and the organization in general.

    While I understand Russell's frustrations, I, along with most of you, am baffled by the timing, the delivery and the seemingly calculatedness of it all. Just coming off watching him and Ciara's segment on Ellen earlier today where they were pumping up their perfume/cologne brand, their GQ cover spread...I have officially come to the conclusion that Russell Wilson has decided his "legacy", his brand, is more important to him than team.

    Not even the GOAT has ANYWHERE NEAR the level of public drive for his brand, like tentacles, breaching multiple media and platforms and product lines.

    So that all brings me to my point. The silence from the organization.

    I don't get it. This is the time for Pete Carroll to come out, and make a statement to the fans, to the NFL world about how much they value Russell, how they have no plans to trade him AT ALL, etc, etc, etc.

    But instead? No rebuttal. No comments.

    Silence.

    That doesn't just underscore what many have said, which is that the organization is pissed off that Russell has taken to the media to call out his OL and his general lack of appreciation for being one of the most sacked QBs in the NFL for basically all of his career, but more importantly their lack of saying anything to me indicates that we really have come to the end of the Russell Wilson Era in Seattle.

    Whether it's a Lame Duck final 2021 season or he gets traded this offseason, I am not sure. But make no mistake about it, we are staring the end of the Golden Years square in the face and I for one am shocked and saddened it's come to this.

    I lurked on this forum for quite a long time. I'm 47. I've been a fan since inception. Always been more of a "reader" of forums and not interested in posting much until the 2013 run. I have always been a Wilson defender at heart while reading a lot of the negative stuff about his play over the earlier years. As the years have gone by and the offense has the same issues from year to year and coordinator to coordinator, most people have been putting that on Pete. For me it's the other constant through those years, Russell. It still wasn't enough for me to think he wasn't the guy though, Until that word started popping up in every single interview that wasn't a post game reaction type interview. LEGACY.

    That one word almost completely turned me 180 degrees on Russell. That frequency of that one word coming out of his mouth combined with me, my, and I. That one word was spawned the "let russ cook" movement started by Team 3 (if that isn't obnoxious enough). The straw that broke this camel's back was the post game presser a few games into his turnover meltdown where he went on and on about how he knows he's GREAT like he was trying to convince himself. As soon as I heard that, I was done with Russell win or lose. The whole saga has been orchestrated with the starting point being the NY rumors like a management agency trying to turn a mediocre actor into a mega-star. Shallow, cheap, and horribly obvious. This public stunt just showed his teammates his other face if they didn't already see it. This also made me revisit the old Sherman and other's view of Russell and say maybe they were onto something.

    Not one legit all time QB has openly gone on a legacy campaign prior to having cemented their status as all time great. Hell, I don't think any all time great QB has even discussed it until they're on the cusp of retirement and then only reluctantly brushing it off. Russell has lost the plot. He thinks he's already an all time great QB. I've said it a few times in other threads and other places, but I think the crowning of Mahomes crushed his ego. Mahomes is the only QB younger than Russell to challenge his "place" of taking over the game post Brady/Brees/Rogers/Peyton etc....and he couldn't handle it. The push for stars, the push for throwing more, the push for legacy, all came after Mahomes blew the NFL up his first 2 seasons.

    Russell went from winning being the only thing that mattered, to LEGACY being the only thing that matters. Winning is only important now because it's the means to the LEGACY. Once winning gets reduced to only a means to an end, nothing but poor decisions follow. It's also why I think he'll suffer similar results anywhere else he goes.

    That's my theory anyway and that's why I would rather they rip the Band-Aid off right now than go through 1 more season lame duck season. He's not signing another contract here, so what's the point.

    Great post. I think your onto something
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:56 am
  • Agree, "LEGACY" has become his focus and it's just sad.

    The best QB we have ever had, and likely the best we will ever see in ALL of our lifetimes, has gone Hollywood.

    Ciara has played a major roll in this, make NO mistake. She's in his ear 24/7 more than any agent or friend.

    The Ellen show with the perfume/cologne pimping was my Uh Oh moment.

    Just sucks because I honestly feel without Russ, we are back to mediocrity. Hope I am wrong but I doubt it.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:11 am
  • I could not agree more. The more I've learned about Russell's comments and the staging of the events leading up to them, the more I see why the front office would be upset. Russell is making the narrative entirely about him while subversively attacking the legacy and credibility of the organization. This has been a model franchise since Allen took over. Pete Carroll is one of the greatest coaches of all time. John Schneider is among the most respected and successful GM's in the NFL. Yet, Russ basically went on live television and talked as if he'd been in Detroit the past 10 years.

    Russ always talks about wanting to be like Jeter, but it's starting to look like his legacy in Seattle could end up looking like Arod.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:58 am
  • knownone wrote:I could not agree more. The more I've learned about Russell's comments and the staging of the events leading up to them, the more I see why the front office would be upset. Russell is making the narrative entirely about him while subversively attacking the legacy and credibility of the organization. This has been a model franchise since Allen took over. Pete Carroll is one of the greatest coaches of all time. John Schneider is among the most respected and successful GM's in the NFL. Yet, Russ basically went on live television and talked as if he'd been in Detroit the past 10 years.

    Russ always talks about wanting to be like Jeter, but it's starting to look like his legacy in Seattle could end up looking like Arod.

    There are 15 Head Coaches that have a better playoff record than Pete Carroll since our last Super Bowl win, 15. Nobody has lost more playoff games in that time period than Pete Carroll. We keep losing because of the same reasons as well. Running conservative schemes that allow the other team to run up the score. When we finally let the reigns loose on Wilson we have too big of a deficit to overcome. It's been the story since 2015.

    On offense we also run a really weird scheme. Wilson isn't afforded the same agency as other vet QB's in the league. Carroll puts on really tight reigns on Wilson, especially after a bad game. Carroll's offensive playbook needs to be thrown in the trash, and he needs to let the OC handle that. Want to try running the ball? Got it, i'm on it Carroll. Tell him what you want and let him execute.

    Along with the scheme we don't invest anything in our offensive line, yet force Wilson to run 7 step drops on a regular basis. We're 32nd in O-Line spending, and the offensive linemen we do invest in are primarily runblockers with poor pass blocking abilities. We're throwing money at a bunch of stop gaps and expecting them to fix our issues. The scheme and our lack of investment on the offensive line is killing us. For example, we knew Iupati has an extensive injury history and is washed up. We could have gone after someone like Graham Glasgow instead and shored up our left guard or center position. He was very good at all of the interior positions and has played every position there. Would he cost money, yes. Who would it have costed us? Greg Olsen? Finney? Iupati?

    You think this is unique to Russ? QBs such as Brady, Manning, and Rodgers have been known to make demands like this. There are videos of Manning and Brady cussing out their linemen for messing up. QB's having tenuous relationships with their head coaches also isn't a new thing. Russ has been with us since 2012, and behind closed doors he's probably had chats like this with Carroll and nothing has changed. It's been a different face calling the plays, same tired old scheme. Pete acts like he is giving in to the pressure, but inevitably goes back to doing what he's always done.

    Is Russell perfect? No. I think he feels as if this is his only option to get Carroll to relent. Ever since our playoff loss he's been ramping up his rhetoric. DK Metcalf also chimed in. The funny part is, Wilson seemed okay with Schottenheimer, but not Carroll. I don't blame him one bit for forcing the issue. This has been going on for years now. I think he's gone if we don't see some change in 2021, and if that is the case Carroll should probably be fired. Chasing away a QB of Wilson's caliber is unacceptable.
    Last edited by Spin Doctor on Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:59 am
  • Wenhawk wrote:I feel the same except I think we still have a first class organization and finding a QB that will have success on a team that is a top 5 run game and a top 5 D will be easier than people think.



    You are severely out of your gourd on this, We don't have a top 5 run game right now, nor do we have a top 5 defense, we spent the better part of 35 years trying to get a Franchise QB.

    You think you can open an App and order any one of these?

    Ask the Browns fans, Ask the Lions fans, Ask the Jets Fans, for recent understanding.

    Getting all the pieces together to be formidable is skill, luck and then having the Coaching Staff top down that knows how to teach and get the best out of that talent.

    If it was so easy how come only the Patriots have in the last 20 years won the most Super Bowls.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:11 am
  • Aros wrote:Agree, "LEGACY" has become his focus and it's just sad.

    The best QB we have ever had, and likely the best we will ever see in ALL of our lifetimes, has gone Hollywood.

    Ciara has played a major roll in this, make NO mistake. She's in his ear 24/7 more than any agent or friend.

    The Ellen show with the perfume/cologne pimping was my Uh Oh moment.

    Just sucks because I honestly feel without Russ, we are back to mediocrity. Hope I am wrong but I doubt it.

    I don't know who it is, but her line of work does bring a lot of people into their orbit that do that stuff for a living. The music business is pure marketing and packaging for all but the most gifted who don't need to rely on it. I mean most music anymore is doesn't even require any talent at all. Technology has made it really easy to take someone with the look and build everything else around them.

    I picked up someone mention that Rogers his agent was a journalist in some manner (print media maybe) prior to entering the agent business with baseball, so he's well versed in how use the media as a tool obviously. There's also no question that pushing a ton of products is going to bring that strategy into play more often.

    All of this to say that there is probably a team of people telling Russell how great he is on a daily basis. Convincing him that it's everyone else's fault he had a bad game. A bubble like that given enough time can eat away at even the strongest shell of character causing one to lose the ability to hold one's self sufficiently accountable to keep a grip on what's important.

    It appears that Russell forgot what got him to the point of even being able to start dreaming about a legacy, the FOOTBALL part of the equation.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:14 am
  • A funny (or scary) hypothetical scenario that was thrown out there on Wyman's show in jest today. What if this whole thing was drummed up by Russ's team, TEAM 3, just to get the media stirred up and talking about him prior to the his/her fragrance drop! How disturbing would that be. I can't make room in my head to accept that as legit possibility, but it would be an all timer and I'm not sure in a good way or bad way. I can't even process that.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:25 am
  • Pete and John never address stuff until the have a plan and execute it, they explain after the fact.

    Wilson has gone Hollywood I think, he is hanging with performers not athletes a lot more, different mentality.

    On the football side, Pete has not adapted and or found the players he used to find due to the rest of the league adapting to use and now bypassing us.

    The Air Coryell offense of San Diego is in Kansas City.

    The Tampa Two is now being used more league wide again.

    Changing up does not have to be new, it has to be different then what the trend on defense and offense are.

    Everyone has gone big in the secondary due to Pete, they almost all have went to a one back set.

    Going back to smaller quick receivers and WCO type offense would flourish now and counter the Tampa two. QB's that can release quickly and read in route receiver that can break quick and accelerate.

    Run game with a fullback lead blocking and a RB that can read and cut off blocks and take advantage of the lighter LB's and get bigger gains.

    Those are just ideas and observations.

    But it has been 11 years now for Pete here, most coaches wear out their welcome because they get stuck in a rut and don't change and have to move on.

    The great ones only had their era and the league adapted, they stayed for years after but never achieved the same success mostly because they get stuck in their ways.

    The exception is Belichick who adapts every week let alone every season, we will see next year if he can still do it.

    It may be time here in Seattle, I don't want to go backwards anymore then other fans but we need a change, player, Coach, adapt and or look different and evolve or devolve to a system teams are not staffed to play against and where we can get premium players to run that kind of system because the rest of the league is wanting to use the current trendy stuff.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:29 am
  • chris98251 wrote:
    Wenhawk wrote:I feel the same except I think we still have a first class organization and finding a QB that will have success on a team that is a top 5 run game and a top 5 D will be easier than people think.



    You are severely out of your gourd on this, We don't have a top 5 run game right now, nor do we have a top 5 defense, we spent the better part of 35 years trying to get a Franchise QB.

    You think you can open an App and order any one of these?

    Ask the Browns fans, Ask the Lions fans, Ask the Jets Fans, for recent understanding.

    Getting all the pieces together to be formidable is skill, luck and then having the Coaching Staff top down that knows how to teach and get the best out of that talent.


    This is the bit that most folks stating they’re done with Russ/trade him etc., can’t answer with any sort of substance. Preferring to jump into irrelevance, with both feet, just because the QB said some things you don’t like? Really??
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:35 am
  • Nah. I love a good conspiracy theory like the next dude but this smacks of what it smells, looks and feels like.

    - Russ is frustrated about the lack of protection. Most if not all of his career.

    - Russ is frustrated that due to sub-par coaching and scheming we were bounced in the first round of the playoffs at home to the Rams with a backup QB and a hobbled Goff.

    - Russ is frustrated of the team's perpetual insistence of looking for bargains and "versatile" players for the OL instead of drafting players who excel at their chosen positions, aka LG, C, etc, etc...

    - Russ is frustrated that he asks for more super star players and the response is a has-been tight end with literally zero tread left.

    Russ is just frustrated. And I don't blame him. But I DO blame him for taking this $h!t to the national media and creating chaos in the organization that cannot easily be repaired. As great of a human being as he is, and has shown, this is a legit tarnish on his name as a player. NEVER throw your players under the bus. E V E R .
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:55 am
  • Dont think to much on legacy. While most people would say he is becoming to selfish...its crap. He just won walter Payton's man of the year. That is the most unselfish thing in the nfl and we all know the hospital visits. Also, 9 years in...all winning seasons almost. One superbowl...playoff losses. I guess everyone here would be happy at their respective jobs after giving your all for so long and not getting results. Plus, it is his legacy. Seahawks legacy. He wants better not only for him, but the city. Its shameful that alot of his fans are turning on him.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:25 am
  • Im sure all the Pete & Russell haters are loving this...

    This is all a bunch of nonsense offseason. Wilson is not getting traded. Pete is not getting fired.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:50 am
  • Same situation we were in after 49. We kept the coaches then and lost the players. Haven’t been a shadow of those squads since and PC guided the ship downwards. Now RW is in the 2015 LOB boat and not buying the rah rah.

    If you want to remain relevant and not go back to the 90s, you fire PC immediately. No one is buying into his fluff anymore and he can’t build a winning team. He also can’t coach on Sundays. Wilson knows it. You protect your players not your coaches.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:24 am
  • chris98251 wrote:
    Wenhawk wrote:I feel the same except I think we still have a first class organization and finding a QB that will have success on a team that is a top 5 run game and a top 5 D will be easier than people think.



    You are severely out of your gourd on this, We don't have a top 5 run game right now, nor do we have a top 5 defense, we spent the better part of 35 years trying to get a Franchise QB.

    You think you can open an App and order any one of these?

    Ask the Browns fans, Ask the Lions fans, Ask the Jets Fans, for recent understanding.

    Getting all the pieces together to be formidable is skill, luck and then having the Coaching Staff top down that knows how to teach and get the best out of that talent.

    If it was so easy how come only the Patriots have in the last 20 years won the most Super Bowls.


    Yeah, I'm not really paying much attention to all this Wilson stuff. A lot of the fans are locked into some weird storytelling thing where they have themselves convinced of pretty significant things. They might be partially correct or even pretty right. But it's based around some fantasy of how they know how some things like Carroll doing this or that will fix everything, and now we're at the extreme end of it with Wilson being too "Hollywood" and needing to eject him and/or Carroll.

    Wen is saying "easier than people think"; finding a QB that have a multi-year run of not losing you games, much less being a significant reason in winning them is an absurdly low probability. Roughly half of NFL teams don't even have a dude who can pull it off for one year, much less string together 3-5 good seasons.

    There are teams that haven't had a good quarterback in the existence of their franchise (example: Jaguars, over a quarter of a century now). There are some that haven't had one since before the Korean War (example: Bears, Sid Luckman).

    If people just want to change because they're frustrated with where the team is at, then I guess that's a thing. It's mathematically not a good probability things will go well for many seasons, but some people like to gamble.


    If you're just wanting to dump Wilson because he's "too Hollywood" or whatever, I think you're less interested in actual football than you should be.

    If people think that dumping Wilson because of cap is a good idea, there's up to a $10 million savings when you get down to veterans who don't suck. That's it. $10 million. And they're not even close to Wilson quality. Ryan Tannehill's 2021 cap hit is $2.5 million less than Wilson.

    You can also draft rookie after rookie, but the NFL QB rookie crapshoot is a wild ride that generally ends in disappointment.

    The 2017 draft had Mahones and Watson, then a bunch of dudes that aren't working out.

    Here's everybody drafted at QB from 2016 to 2013:

    Goff
    Wentz
    Lynch
    Hackenberg
    Brissett
    Kessler
    Cook
    Prescott
    Jones
    Hogan
    Sudfeld
    Rudock
    Allen
    Driskel
    Doughty
    Winston
    Mariota
    Grayson
    Mannion
    Petty
    Hundley
    Siemian
    Bortles
    Manzel
    Bridgewater
    Carr
    Garoppolo
    Thomas
    Savage
    Murray
    McCarron
    Mettenberger
    Fales
    Wenning
    Boyd
    Gilbert
    Manuel
    Smith
    Glennon
    Barkley
    Nassib
    T Wilson
    L Jones
    Sorensen
    Dysert
    Daniels
    Renfree


    That's four drafts. I don't even know if you can argue that there are eight good or better multi-year starters in there, which would be an average of two per year. For 32 teams to draft.
    bmorepunk
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:31 am
  • Familiarity breeds contempt . I'm sure Wilson has complained privately about the OL situation for several years . Maybe he is just weary of the lack of response . Maybe Wilson and Carroll are weary of each other . Maybe it's like a marriage built on tolerance that becomes intolerable after many years . Chit happens .
    xray
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:31 am
  • I completely agree Aros.

    He should have kept this in house. Going to the media did nothing but stir up controversy.

    Now imagine he stays quiet until mini camp and then training camp. I can just feel the tension in that locker room. Duane Brown will look at him with utter disgust. Damien Lewis will give him the cold shoulder. It'll be cold as ice in there.
    They may even intentionally miss a block here and there just to let Russell get hit and self implode.

    His mask is finally being lifted, and it's sad. His public persona has evolved into some corporate hot shot, rather than the "Go Hawks" team first winner. It makes my heart sick and sad.

    Here's another conspiracy theory I'll throw out there though. What if he suffered a concussion last year, and it wasn't the first of his career? We've seen guys like Antonio Brown just completely change at the snap of a finger as a result of concussions. Could this be another case?
    It would explain this shift from team first to "me" first.
    Jerhawk
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:33 am
  • But has anyone sampled the perfume yet? Valentines is tomorrow.....
    Cyrus12
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:01 am
  • bmorepunk wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:
    Wenhawk wrote:I feel the same except I think we still have a first class organization and finding a QB that will have success on a team that is a top 5 run game and a top 5 D will be easier than people think.



    You are severely out of your gourd on this, We don't have a top 5 run game right now, nor do we have a top 5 defense, we spent the better part of 35 years trying to get a Franchise QB.

    You think you can open an App and order any one of these?

    Ask the Browns fans, Ask the Lions fans, Ask the Jets Fans, for recent understanding.

    Getting all the pieces together to be formidable is skill, luck and then having the Coaching Staff top down that knows how to teach and get the best out of that talent.

    If it was so easy how come only the Patriots have in the last 20 years won the most Super Bowls.


    Yeah, I'm not really paying much attention to all this Wilson stuff. A lot of the fans are locked into some weird storytelling thing where they have themselves convinced of pretty significant things. They might be partially correct or even pretty right. But it's based around some fantasy of how they know how some things like Carroll doing this or that will fix everything, and now we're at the extreme end of it with Wilson being too "Hollywood" and needing to eject him and/or Carroll.

    Wen is saying "easier than people think"; finding a QB that have a multi-year run of not losing you games, much less being a significant reason in winning them is an absurdly low probability. Roughly half of NFL teams don't even have a dude who can pull it off for one year, much less string together 3-5 good seasons.

    There are teams that haven't had a good quarterback in the existence of their franchise (example: Jaguars, over a quarter of a century now). There are some that haven't had one since before the Korean War (example: Bears, Sid Luckman).

    If people just want to change because they're frustrated with where the team is at, then I guess that's a thing. It's mathematically not a good probability things will go well for many seasons, but some people like to gamble.


    If you're just wanting to dump Wilson because he's "too Hollywood" or whatever, I think you're less interested in actual football than you should be.

    If people think that dumping Wilson because of cap is a good idea, there's up to a $10 million savings when you get down to veterans who don't suck. That's it. $10 million. And they're not even close to Wilson quality. Ryan Tannehill's 2021 cap hit is $2.5 million less than Wilson.

    You can also draft rookie after rookie, but the NFL QB rookie crapshoot is a wild ride that generally ends in disappointment.

    The 2017 draft had Mahones and Watson, then a bunch of dudes that aren't working out.

    Here's everybody drafted at QB from 2016 to 2013:

    Goff
    Wentz
    Lynch
    Hackenberg
    Brissett
    Kessler
    Cook
    Prescott
    Jones
    Hogan
    Sudfeld
    Rudock
    Allen
    Driskel
    Doughty
    Winston
    Mariota
    Grayson
    Mannion
    Petty
    Hundley
    Siemian
    Bortles
    Manzel
    Bridgewater
    Carr
    Garoppolo
    Thomas
    Savage
    Murray
    McCarron
    Mettenberger
    Fales
    Wenning
    Boyd
    Gilbert
    Manuel
    Smith
    Glennon
    Barkley
    Nassib
    T Wilson
    L Jones
    Sorensen
    Dysert
    Daniels
    Renfree


    That's four drafts. I don't even know if you can argue that there are eight good or better multi-year starters in there, which would be an average of two per year. For 32 teams to draft.


    All that^^

    This "Russ has gone Hollywood" talk is clown $h!t. If certain QB's are visibly doing anything but studying game tape, running hills, or practicing their spirals, then, dammit! They must be too worried about making too much money or spending too much time "bEInG a SOcIaL jusTIce WArRioR!" (you know who you are). In other words, "Stay in your place, BOY! Shut up and dribble!". Because God forbid you actually care about the state of the nation you're raising your little brown babies in. I wonder why I never heard a peep out of literally NO ONE when Phillip Rivers was consistently struggling to crack .500...never once did I hear "He's not getting us to the playoffs! He must not get enough sleep, needs to quit adding kids to his tribe!". What's Derek Carr's excuse? Or Matt Ryan? Stafford?

    Anyone that thinks it's gonna be no big deal if Russ leaves and we'll still win 10+ games/yr is a fool or lying to themselves.
    hgwellz12
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:06 am
  • Jerhawk wrote:I completely agree Aros.

    He should have kept this in house. Going to the media did nothing but stir up controversy.

    Now imagine he stays quiet until mini camp and then training camp. I can just feel the tension in that locker room. Duane Brown will look at him with utter disgust. Damien Lewis will give him the cold shoulder. It'll be cold as ice in there.
    They may even intentionally miss a block here and there just to let Russell get hit and self implode.

    His mask is finally being lifted, and it's sad. His public persona has evolved into some corporate hot shot, rather than the "Go Hawks" team first winner. It makes my heart sick and sad.

    Here's another conspiracy theory I'll throw out there though. What if he suffered a concussion last year, and it wasn't the first of his career? We've seen guys like Antonio Brown just completely change at the snap of a finger as a result of concussions. Could this be another case?
    It would explain this shift from team first to "me" first.



    Who's the other player(s) on the team that say "Go Hawks"?
    hgwellz12
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:37 am
  • Here we are. In the 'dead zone' on the football calendar. That time of year where there is nothing happening. That time of the football year where those who try to make their living selling what they write have nothing to write about. So what do they do? They create something out of nothing and hope it goes viral.
    This time it worked.
    Appyhawk
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:40 am
  • Let me spin this idea, bad teams that draft a QB high often have a lot of problems. From personal, coaching and front office those teams don’t mesh with a common mission statement or ability. Andy Reid has drafted or acquired QB after QB and fit them into his system. Bad culture usual leads to failure. Success is not all about luck.

    Everything we hear from veterans coming in about the Seahawks culture, coaches, front office, facilities, staff, etc... is that wow, this place is first class all the way. Pete built that, not Wilson.
    nwHawk
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:00 am
  • Lets all get outraged, upset, and emotionally compromised over media created drama.

    And we wonder why this is now the norm of "sports journalism", keep giving them clicks, and they will keep feeding your emotions.
    Mix
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:20 am
  • Aros wrote:Agree, "LEGACY" has become his focus and it's just sad.

    The best QB we have ever had, and likely the best we will ever see in ALL of our lifetimes, has gone Hollywood.

    Ciara has played a major roll in this, make NO mistake. She's in his ear 24/7 more than any agent or friend.

    The Ellen show with the perfume/cologne pimping was my Uh Oh moment.

    Just sucks because I honestly feel without Russ, we are back to mediocrity. Hope I am wrong but I doubt it.
    Ciara = Yoko Ono


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    James in PA
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:22 am
  • James in PA wrote:
    Aros wrote:Agree, "LEGACY" has become his focus and it's just sad.

    The best QB we have ever had, and likely the best we will ever see in ALL of our lifetimes, has gone Hollywood.

    Ciara has played a major roll in this, make NO mistake. She's in his ear 24/7 more than any agent or friend.

    The Ellen show with the perfume/cologne pimping was my Uh Oh moment.

    Just sucks because I honestly feel without Russ, we are back to mediocrity. Hope I am wrong but I doubt it.
    Ciara = Yoko Ono


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Janet Gretzky for the Canadians that remember
    Cyrus12
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:48 am
  • chris98251 wrote:
    Wenhawk wrote:I feel the same except I think we still have a first class organization and finding a QB that will have success on a team that is a top 5 run game and a top 5 D will be easier than people think.



    You are severely out of your gourd on this, We don't have a top 5 run game right now, nor do we have a top 5 defense, we spent the better part of 35 years trying to get a Franchise QB.

    You think you can open an App and order any one of these?

    Ask the Browns fans, Ask the Lions fans, Ask the Jets Fans, for recent understanding.

    Getting all the pieces together to be formidable is skill, luck and then having the Coaching Staff top down that knows how to teach and get the best out of that talent.

    If it was so easy how come only the Patriots have in the last 20 years won the most Super Bowls.


    We have seen a few teams successfull make playoffs year after year without top flight QBs but relied on good D and good run games.

    SF: Alex Smith, Kap, Jimmy G
    Balt: Flacco, Jackson
    Cincy: Dalton
    LA Rams: Goff
    Wenhawk
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:06 am
  • Aros wrote:All these different Russ threads have been mind numbing to say the least. But let's face it, this is the biggest talk of the NFL at the moment and quite frankly it's a topic I NEVER would have thought would be happening coming off of a 12-4 season and division championship in what is widely known as the toughest division in the NFL.

    I'm not wanting to get into the Why's and the How's nor the Where Do We Go From Here's. Those have been debated ad nauseum in this forum for weeks and weeks, in many cases by X's and O's minds much better than my own.

    No, what I want to talk about is the silence being felt right now by Pete Carroll and the organization in general.

    While I understand Russell's frustrations, I, along with most of you, am baffled by the timing, the delivery and the seemingly calculatedness of it all. Just coming off watching him and Ciara's segment on Ellen earlier today where they were pumping up their perfume/cologne brand, their GQ cover spread...I have officially come to the conclusion that Russell Wilson has decided his "legacy", his brand, is more important to him than team.

    Not even the GOAT has ANYWHERE NEAR the level of public drive for his brand, like tentacles, breaching multiple media and platforms and product lines.

    So that all brings me to my point. The silence from the organization.

    I don't get it. This is the time for Pete Carroll to come out, and make a statement to the fans, to the NFL world about how much they value Russell, how they have no plans to trade him AT ALL, etc, etc, etc.

    But instead? No rebuttal. No comments.

    Silence.

    That doesn't just underscore what many have said, which is that the organization is pissed off that Russell has taken to the media to call out his OL and his general lack of appreciation for being one of the most sacked QBs in the NFL for basically all of his career, but more importantly their lack of saying anything to me indicates that we really have come to the end of the Russell Wilson Era in Seattle.

    Whether it's a Lame Duck final 2021 season or he gets traded this offseason, I am not sure. But make no mistake about it, we are staring the end of the Golden Years square in the face and I for one am shocked and saddened it's come to this.



    I keep saying this CAA is RW & Ciara’s management!!! Every athlete they have signed has suffered the same fate. Once CAA is involved it’s GAME OVER! RW will be lucky if his football career isn’t cut short. CAA will eventually push RW’s agent Mark Rogers out of his life if he doesn’t sign a pact with the Devil. Sinister & Evil = CAA!
    FresnoHawk68
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:08 am
  • James in PA wrote:
    Aros wrote:Agree, "LEGACY" has become his focus and it's just sad.

    The best QB we have ever had, and likely the best we will ever see in ALL of our lifetimes, has gone Hollywood.

    Ciara has played a major roll in this, make NO mistake. She's in his ear 24/7 more than any agent or friend.

    The Ellen show with the perfume/cologne pimping was my Uh Oh moment.

    Just sucks because I honestly feel without Russ, we are back to mediocrity. Hope I am wrong but I doubt it.
    Ciara = Yoko Ono


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


    Wow so true!
    FresnoHawk68
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:17 am
  • Imagine the nerve of a qb that has been sacked more times in 9 seasons that any qb in NFL history to actually say that he doesn't like getting sacked that much.

    Like who does he think he is. Cant he just shut up and play football?!?
    misfit
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:46 am
  • OrangeGravy wrote:
    Aros wrote:All these different Russ threads have been mind numbing to say the least. But let's face it, this is the biggest talk of the NFL at the moment and quite frankly it's a topic I NEVER would have thought would be happening coming off of a 12-4 season and division championship in what is widely known as the toughest division in the NFL.

    I'm not wanting to get into the Why's and the How's nor the Where Do We Go From Here's. Those have been debated ad nauseum in this forum for weeks and weeks, in many cases by X's and O's minds much better than my own.

    No, what I want to talk about is the silence being felt right now by Pete Carroll and the organization in general.

    While I understand Russell's frustrations, I, along with most of you, am baffled by the timing, the delivery and the seemingly calculatedness of it all. Just coming off watching him and Ciara's segment on Ellen earlier today where they were pumping up their perfume/cologne brand, their GQ cover spread...I have officially come to the conclusion that Russell Wilson has decided his "legacy", his brand, is more important to him than team.

    Not even the GOAT has ANYWHERE NEAR the level of public drive for his brand, like tentacles, breaching multiple media and platforms and product lines.

    So that all brings me to my point. The silence from the organization.

    I don't get it. This is the time for Pete Carroll to come out, and make a statement to the fans, to the NFL world about how much they value Russell, how they have no plans to trade him AT ALL, etc, etc, etc.

    But instead? No rebuttal. No comments.

    Silence.

    That doesn't just underscore what many have said, which is that the organization is pissed off that Russell has taken to the media to call out his OL and his general lack of appreciation for being one of the most sacked QBs in the NFL for basically all of his career, but more importantly their lack of saying anything to me indicates that we really have come to the end of the Russell Wilson Era in Seattle.

    Whether it's a Lame Duck final 2021 season or he gets traded this offseason, I am not sure. But make no mistake about it, we are staring the end of the Golden Years square in the face and I for one am shocked and saddened it's come to this.

    I lurked on this forum for quite a long time. I'm 47. I've been a fan since inception. Always been more of a "reader" of forums and not interested in posting much until the 2013 run. I have always been a Wilson defender at heart while reading a lot of the negative stuff about his play over the earlier years. As the years have gone by and the offense has the same issues from year to year and coordinator to coordinator, most people have been putting that on Pete. For me it's the other constant through those years, Russell. It still wasn't enough for me to think he wasn't the guy though, Until that word started popping up in every single interview that wasn't a post game reaction type interview. LEGACY.

    That one word almost completely turned me 180 degrees on Russell. That frequency of that one word coming out of his mouth combined with me, my, and I. That one word was spawned the "let russ cook" movement started by Team 3 (if that isn't obnoxious enough). The straw that broke this camel's back was the post game presser a few games into his turnover meltdown where he went on and on about how he knows he's GREAT like he was trying to convince himself. As soon as I heard that, I was done with Russell win or lose. The whole saga has been orchestrated with the starting point being the NY rumors like a management agency trying to turn a mediocre actor into a mega-star. Shallow, cheap, and horribly obvious. This public stunt just showed his teammates his other face if they didn't already see it. This also made me revisit the old Sherman and other's view of Russell and say maybe they were onto something.

    Not one legit all time QB has openly gone on a legacy campaign prior to having cemented their status as all time great. Hell, I don't think any all time great QB has even discussed it until they're on the cusp of retirement and then only reluctantly brushing it off. Russell has lost the plot. He thinks he's already an all time great QB. I've said it a few times in other threads and other places, but I think the crowning of Mahomes crushed his ego. Mahomes is the only QB younger than Russell to challenge his "place" of taking over the game post Brady/Brees/Rogers/Peyton etc....and he couldn't handle it. The push for stars, the push for throwing more, the push for legacy, all came after Mahomes blew the NFL up his first 2 seasons.

    Russell went from winning being the only thing that mattered, to LEGACY being the only thing that matters. Winning is only important now because it's the means to the LEGACY. Once winning gets reduced to only a means to an end, nothing but poor decisions follow. It's also why I think he'll suffer similar results anywhere else he goes.

    That's my theory anyway and that's why I would rather they rip the Band-Aid off right now than go through 1 more season lame duck season. He's not signing another contract here, so what's the point.
    I agree with this whole post. He’s not signing another contract unless we pay him a crazy amount. Which will cripple the team.


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    HawkinNY
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:03 pm
  • James in PA wrote:
    Aros wrote:Agree, "LEGACY" has become his focus and it's just sad.

    The best QB we have ever had, and likely the best we will ever see in ALL of our lifetimes, has gone Hollywood.

    Ciara has played a major roll in this, make NO mistake. She's in his ear 24/7 more than any agent or friend.

    The Ellen show with the perfume/cologne pimping was my Uh Oh moment.

    Just sucks because I honestly feel without Russ, we are back to mediocrity. Hope I am wrong but I doubt it.
    Ciara = Yoko Ono


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


    I'm going to get hammered for this, but I gotta chirp.

    The trope of the toxic, Medea-like woman whispering in her man's ear and nearly controlling his actions is so tired and so toxic--and if it isn't outright sexist, it's only about one diagonal move on the checker board from it.

    Russ is a grown-ass man. If you have issues with how he's handling this, your issues are with him. Full-stop.

    I get it. We're disappointed in the guy, and it's real convenient to spread the blame around and shift it away from the hero. But this kind of thing is--at best-- fueled by a lot of incredibly problematic bias.
    nanomoz
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:12 pm
  • nanomoz wrote:
    James in PA wrote:
    Aros wrote:Agree, "LEGACY" has become his focus and it's just sad.

    The best QB we have ever had, and likely the best we will ever see in ALL of our lifetimes, has gone Hollywood.

    Ciara has played a major roll in this, make NO mistake. She's in his ear 24/7 more than any agent or friend.

    The Ellen show with the perfume/cologne pimping was my Uh Oh moment.

    Just sucks because I honestly feel without Russ, we are back to mediocrity. Hope I am wrong but I doubt it.
    Ciara = Yoko Ono


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


    I'm going to get hammered for this, but I gotta chirp.

    The trope of the toxic, Medea-like woman whispering in her man's ear and nearly controlling his actions is so tired and so toxic--and if it isn't outright sexist, it's only about one diagonal move on the checker board from it.

    Russ is a grown-ass man. If you have issues with how he's handling this, your issues are with him. Full-stop.

    I get it. We're disappointed in the guy, and it's real convenient to spread the blame around and shift it away from the hero. But this kind of thing is--at best-- fueled by a lot of incredibly problematic bias.


    Great post.
    pinksheets
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:14 pm
  • Some pretty wild takes both here and other places such as reddit,twitter etc. Seems like alot of people were just waiting for russ to do something they didnt like to just jump all over him. For the person saying that "Not one legit all time QB has openly gone on a legacy campaign prior to having cemented their status as all time great" can you please explain one all time great John Elway? What do you call refusing to play for a team that can and does draft you because you believe it would affect your ability to be successful? Or Eli manning? Was there some other mysterious reason other than his potential legacy for forcing his way to NY?

    We then have another poster listing dozens of QBs drafted from only a few drafts and yet the best response given was around 10% or so those QBs being even serviceable. I get that people feel the need to be overly dramatic in response to all the media making things even more dramatic for clicks and views, but the more i read the more i start to genuinely hope russ ends up with another team so we can see what kind of seahawk football we get that others seem to want. Also, this isnt the first time a QB has publicy gone after his own team mates (Peyton manning and his idiot kicker come to mind) nor is it the first time a QB has talked about legacy (Rodgers has and probably will continue to do so).

    IDK, just reading most of the stuff gives off vibes that its more of a russ the person problem rather than russ the player problem. Because football wise once hes gone, can you really say with any confidence that the seahawks will be able to either replace him with a similarly productive QB based on not just seattles previous history of drafting QBs, but the entirety of the NFL in general? Or spending 10-15 million less on a veteran QB will yield superior results based on who they can bring in with that extra money? As someone who enjoys watching the seahawks i hope that they can and do improve post russ (whenever that happens) but looking at the landscape of the NFL, id say chances of that are slim.
    Lawke
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:35 pm
  • Wenhawk wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:
    Wenhawk wrote:I feel the same except I think we still have a first class organization and finding a QB that will have success on a team that is a top 5 run game and a top 5 D will be easier than people think.



    You are severely out of your gourd on this, We don't have a top 5 run game right now, nor do we have a top 5 defense, we spent the better part of 35 years trying to get a Franchise QB.

    You think you can open an App and order any one of these?

    Ask the Browns fans, Ask the Lions fans, Ask the Jets Fans, for recent understanding.

    Getting all the pieces together to be formidable is skill, luck and then having the Coaching Staff top down that knows how to teach and get the best out of that talent.

    If it was so easy how come only the Patriots have in the last 20 years won the most Super Bowls.


    We have seen a few teams successfull make playoffs year after year without top flight QBs but relied on good D and good run games.

    SF: Alex Smith, Kap, Jimmy G
    Balt: Flacco, Jackson
    Cincy: Dalton
    LA Rams: Goff


    "A few teams" does not point to even a reasonable possibility it is going to work out. The Seahawks already consistently make the playoffs.

    SF mised the playoffs for five straight years. They've gotten one three since Wilson was drafted. They have two lost Super Bowls to show for it. Smith flagged out, Kaep is one dimensional, and Jimmy G was a big cap hit for a dude as hurt/inconsistent as he's been.

    Baltimore won a single playoff game between 2013 and 2018 and missed out on even making it for five seasons.

    The Bengals haven't won a playoff game since the George HW Bush Administration. That was 30 years ago.

    If the Rams had a consistent QB, they would be destroying everybody all the time. But they have had Goff, a dude who cost under $3 million less than Wilson last year.

    The other side of this is that 2017 Jaguars defense was insanely good. But they had Bortles as their QB and it was a death sentence. Otherwise they're a serious Super Bowl contender.

    Unless this team gets really looking, post-Wilson is going to likely be crappy at QB. We'll likely get what most teams in the NFL have: a yearly back and forth about whether the starter is even good enough to be the starter as they perform inconsistently, with some new dude coming in after him and doing the same thing.
    bmorepunk
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:39 pm
  • Lawke wrote:Some pretty wild takes both here and other places such as reddit,twitter etc. Seems like alot of people were just waiting for russ to do something they didnt like to just jump all over him. For the person saying that "Not one legit all time QB has openly gone on a legacy campaign prior to having cemented their status as all time great" can you please explain one all time great John Elway? What do you call refusing to play for a team that can and does draft you because you believe it would affect your ability to be successful? Or Eli manning? Was there some other mysterious reason other than his potential legacy for forcing his way to NY?

    We then have another poster listing dozens of QBs drafted from only a few drafts and yet the best response given was around 10% or so those QBs being even serviceable. I get that people feel the need to be overly dramatic in response to all the media making things even more dramatic for clicks and views, but the more i read the more i start to genuinely hope russ ends up with another team so we can see what kind of seahawk football we get that others seem to want. Also, this isnt the first time a QB has publicy gone after his own team mates (Peyton manning and his idiot kicker come to mind) nor is it the first time a QB has talked about legacy (Rodgers has and probably will continue to do so).

    IDK, just reading most of the stuff gives off vibes that its more of a russ the person problem rather than russ the player problem. Because football wise once hes gone, can you really say with any confidence that the seahawks will be able to either replace him with a similarly productive QB based on not just seattles previous history of drafting QBs, but the entirety of the NFL in general? Or spending 10-15 million less on a veteran QB will yield superior results based on who they can bring in with that extra money? As someone who enjoys watching the seahawks i hope that they can and do improve post russ (whenever that happens) but looking at the landscape of the NFL, id say chances of that are slim.

    Leveraging the number #1 draft position to avoid playing for a team like the Jets is about wanting to go to a team that can win games. In my opinion it's not the same as droning on about your legacy when you're on a team that just finished 12-4 and at best is 50% responsible for any offensive issues to your 50%.

    Russ the player problems lead to--> speculation about Russ the person problems--> causing the Russ the player problems. It's a natural progression and we'll most likely never know anything about this entire situation unless something really explosive happens.
    OrangeGravy
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:11 pm
  • Another thought that just crossed my mind and I haven't seen mentioned in all of this chaos, is why this incident has turned some people away from Russell who other wise like or love him.

    I think Russell's main appeal to a lot of us fans over the years was he appeared to be the perfect combination of the 2 major different levels of competent QBs in the league. He was the ultimate "game manager" with Elite QB ability or put another way, he was an Elite level QB with the attitude of a game manager QB. Either way you want to combine those 2. It felt like we were getting all of the good stuff without any risk of the bad stuff. That we were gonna be lucky enough to avoid any of the possible pitfalls of a super star QB. Now that some of that bad stuff is showing up, the image or whatever you want to label it, is shattering and it's unpleasant and disappointing. For some there's no coming back from it, others will forget about it once the season starts. Everyone will forget if a SB results
    OrangeGravy
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:16 pm
  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    knownone wrote:I could not agree more. The more I've learned about Russell's comments and the staging of the events leading up to them, the more I see why the front office would be upset. Russell is making the narrative entirely about him while subversively attacking the legacy and credibility of the organization. This has been a model franchise since Allen took over. Pete Carroll is one of the greatest coaches of all time. John Schneider is among the most respected and successful GM's in the NFL. Yet, Russ basically went on live television and talked as if he'd been in Detroit the past 10 years.

    Russ always talks about wanting to be like Jeter, but it's starting to look like his legacy in Seattle could end up looking like Arod.

    There are 15 Head Coaches that have a better playoff record than Pete Carroll since our last Super Bowl win, 15. Nobody has lost more playoff games in that time period than Pete Carroll. We keep losing because of the same reasons as well. Running conservative schemes that allow the other team to run up the score. When we finally let the reigns loose on Wilson we have too big of a deficit to overcome. It's been the story since 2015.

    Sorry, I'll definitely respond to the rest of your post in-depth (later today). But you hit me with a fascinating analysis of Pete being 15th in payoff record since our last Superbowl, and I had to dig in. Feel free to let me know if I missed any major coaches. My brain does not work as well as it used to, but I think I've got most of them.

    Wins(W) - Loss(L) - Total Games(G) - Appearances(A) - Potential Appearances (PA)

    Pete Carroll: 3-5-8-5-6
    Sean Payton: 3-4-7-4-6
    Sean McVay: 3-3-6-3-4
    Andy Reid: 7-5-12-6-6
    Mike Tomlin: 3-4-7-4-6
    John Harbaugh: 1-3-4-3-6
    Doug Pederson: 4-2-6-3-5
    Kyle Shanahan: 2-1-3-1-4
    Matt Lefluer: 2-2-4-2-2
    Mike Zimmer: 2-2-4-3-6
    Bill Belichick: 9-3-12-5-6
    Sean McDermott: 2-3-5-3-4
    Bruce Arians: 5-1-6-2-5
    Mike Vrabel: 2-2-4-2-3

    One obvious thing that stands out is that making the playoffs dramatically impacts your overall record. So while Pete has a worse % than many coaches, he's also played in the 3rd most games during that stretch. Furthermore, the two guys ahead of him have played in more home games.

    Playoff home games: W/L
    Carroll: 3/1
    Belichick: 5/1
    Reid: 5/4

    Here's where things get interesting. If we take Brady out of the mix and adjust for teams with QBs not on rookie contracts, your top 5 coaches' rankings look like this.

    Playoffs record w/o TB12 and QBs on rookie contracts: W/L/A

    Pete Carroll: 3/5/5
    Mike Tomlin: 3/4/4
    Sean Payton: 3/4/4
    Mike Zimmer: 2/2/3
    Matt Lefleur: 2/2/2

    In conclusion, when you ignore the GOAT and adjust for rookie contracts, all other things being equal, Pete Carroll is the most consistent coach in the league in terms of making the playoffs and winning in them. If you include Brady he's 3rd.
    knownone
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:19 pm
  • Last year was the shot across the bow.

    I keep hearing 'Wilson should have kept it in-house'.

    Well, what if in-house did not work? According to his side, he has been pushing against this Carroll crap for years. And nothing came of it.

    So last year, he did a drip campaign. That was 'Let Russ Cook'. The other part of that campaign was the warning. Pete ignored it. Did what Pete wanted to do, which was trot out a failed coaching philosophy and attempt to force it regardless.

    That got us a loss against a team with essentially half a QB. In a game where 3/4 of the time Aaron Donald did not even play.

    So Wilson, with the rail in place from the first campaign, started his second campaign.

    And yet, because this is about Pete's pride - Pete refuses to do what even the Texans FO is smart enough to do. At least show a commitment to keeping your star QB. Because this is about Pete's ego. And the reality is that without Wilson, Pete is a below-average NFL coach. (He is going to find this out when he drives off Wilson, BTW)

    He has 2 skillsets that are effective and valuable in the NFL, he is a great motivator and a great eye for talent/developer of same. The rest he is pretty much garbage at.

    Wilson is loyal as a core character trait. But he is getting to the age where QBs start worrying about their legacy. Did you know that pro athletes care more about being in the HOF than winning a SB? That is why legacy is so important.

    And Wilson realizes that Pete is going to saddle him with a legacy of being, for the most part, a playoff loser. Not even his fault but instead because of terrible gameplans for playoff games. Wilson wants a chance to show he can be great in the playoffs again and knows it will never be under Pete.

    He kept it in-house for years. Nothing changed. So now he needs to build external pressure for change. He needs a campaign.

    And when you pay someone millions of dollars, they can pay very talented people to build a marketing campaign for them. He did and it is working. You cannot blame him if the FO (Pete) refuses to listen or change any other way.

    This is ALL on Pete. For years of trying to force a failing coaching philosophy on a QB that deserves better.
    TwistedHusky
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:36 pm
  • TwistedHusky wrote:Last year was the shot across the bow.

    I keep hearing 'Wilson should have kept it in-house'.

    Well, what if in-house did not work? According to his side, he has been pushing against this Carroll crap for years. And nothing came of it.

    So last year, he did a drip campaign. That was 'Let Russ Cook'. The other part of that campaign was the warning. Pete ignored it. Did what Pete wanted to do, which was trot out a failed coaching philosophy and attempt to force it regardless.

    That got us a loss against a team with essentially half a QB. In a game where 3/4 of the time Aaron Donald did not even play.

    So Wilson, with the rail in place from the first campaign, started his second campaign.

    And yet, because this is about Pete's pride - Pete refuses to do what even the Texans FO is smart enough to do. At least show a commitment to keeping your star QB. Because this is about Pete's ego. And the reality is that without Wilson, Pete is a below-average NFL coach. (He is going to find this out when he drives off Wilson, BTW)

    He has 2 skillsets that are effective and valuable in the NFL, he is a great motivator and a great eye for talent/developer of same. The rest he is pretty much garbage at.

    Wilson is loyal as a core character trait. But he is getting to the age where QBs start worrying about their legacy. Did you know that pro athletes care more about being in the HOF than winning a SB? That is why legacy is so important.

    And Wilson realizes that Pete is going to saddle him with a legacy of being, for the most part, a playoff loser. Not even his fault but instead because of terrible gameplans for playoff games. Wilson wants a chance to show he can be great in the playoffs again and knows it will never be under Pete.

    He kept it in-house for years. Nothing changed. So now he needs to build external pressure for change. He needs a campaign.

    And when you pay someone millions of dollars, they can pay very talented people to build a marketing campaign for them. He did and it is working. You cannot blame him if the FO (Pete) refuses to listen or change any other way.

    This is ALL on Pete. For years of trying to force a failing coaching philosophy on a QB that deserves better.

    Russ can take his LEGACY and stick it where the sun don't shine.
    It's always everyone-everything else but him..Nah
    IndyHawk
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:04 pm
  • IndyHawk wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:Last year was the shot across the bow.

    I keep hearing 'Wilson should have kept it in-house'.

    Well, what if in-house did not work? According to his side, he has been pushing against this Carroll crap for years. And nothing came of it.

    So last year, he did a drip campaign. That was 'Let Russ Cook'. The other part of that campaign was the warning. Pete ignored it. Did what Pete wanted to do, which was trot out a failed coaching philosophy and attempt to force it regardless.

    That got us a loss against a team with essentially half a QB. In a game where 3/4 of the time Aaron Donald did not even play.

    So Wilson, with the rail in place from the first campaign, started his second campaign.

    And yet, because this is about Pete's pride - Pete refuses to do what even the Texans FO is smart enough to do. At least show a commitment to keeping your star QB. Because this is about Pete's ego. And the reality is that without Wilson, Pete is a below-average NFL coach. (He is going to find this out when he drives off Wilson, BTW)

    He has 2 skillsets that are effective and valuable in the NFL, he is a great motivator and a great eye for talent/developer of same. The rest he is pretty much garbage at.

    Wilson is loyal as a core character trait. But he is getting to the age where QBs start worrying about their legacy. Did you know that pro athletes care more about being in the HOF than winning a SB? That is why legacy is so important.

    And Wilson realizes that Pete is going to saddle him with a legacy of being, for the most part, a playoff loser. Not even his fault but instead because of terrible gameplans for playoff games. Wilson wants a chance to show he can be great in the playoffs again and knows it will never be under Pete.

    He kept it in-house for years. Nothing changed. So now he needs to build external pressure for change. He needs a campaign.

    And when you pay someone millions of dollars, they can pay very talented people to build a marketing campaign for them. He did and it is working. You cannot blame him if the FO (Pete) refuses to listen or change any other way.

    This is ALL on Pete. For years of trying to force a failing coaching philosophy on a QB that deserves better.

    Russ can take his LEGACY and stick it where the sun don't shine.
    It's always everyone-everything else but him..Nah

    So what you are saying is you are not buying his perfume or gq magazine issue?
    Cyrus12
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:10 pm
  • TwistedHusky wrote:Last year was the shot across the bow.

    I keep hearing 'Wilson should have kept it in-house'.

    Well, what if in-house did not work? According to his side, he has been pushing against this Carroll crap for years. And nothing came of it.

    So last year, he did a drip campaign. That was 'Let Russ Cook'. The other part of that campaign was the warning. Pete ignored it. Did what Pete wanted to do, which was trot out a failed coaching philosophy and attempt to force it regardless.

    That got us a loss against a team with essentially half a QB. In a game where 3/4 of the time Aaron Donald did not even play.

    This is just not true. In the Rams playoff game, Seattle dropped back to pass 36 times, Russ was sacked on 5, he ran on 4 of them. They had 21 designed runs. So what exactly is Pete's failed philosophy? Throwing the ball?

    In the first half, 9 Runs / 13 passes.

    Fun fact: In the first half, Chris Carson had 43 rushing yards on 6 carries good for a 7 Y/C.
    Fun fact: In the first half, Russell Wilson had 95 yards 1 TD, a pick 6, and 3 completions in 13 dropbacks.

    Sure seems like the prudent thing to do would be to run more, right? Don't worry, they didn't. They threw the ball 8 times on their first 3 drives of the 2nd half. Guess what? 7 of those 8 passes were incomplete! On the following drive, they ran the ball 3 straight times and got a first down. Then, they have 1 run and 4 straight incomplete passes.

    :sarcasm_on: It's a shame Pete didn't abandon his pass-first philosophy in the playoffs. I mean, his QB clearly had no time and his RB was averaging 4.8 Y/C for the game. Stubborn Pete. :sarcasm_off:
    knownone
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:21 pm
  • knownone wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:Last year was the shot across the bow.

    I keep hearing 'Wilson should have kept it in-house'.

    Well, what if in-house did not work? According to his side, he has been pushing against this Carroll crap for years. And nothing came of it.

    So last year, he did a drip campaign. That was 'Let Russ Cook'. The other part of that campaign was the warning. Pete ignored it. Did what Pete wanted to do, which was trot out a failed coaching philosophy and attempt to force it regardless.

    That got us a loss against a team with essentially half a QB. In a game where 3/4 of the time Aaron Donald did not even play.

    This is just not true. In the Rams playoff game, Seattle dropped back to pass 36 times, Russ was sacked on 5, he ran on 4 of them. They had 21 designed runs. So what exactly is Pete's failed philosophy? Throwing the ball?

    In the first half, 9 Runs / 13 passes.

    Fun fact: In the first half, Chris Carson had 43 rushing yards on 6 carries good for a 7 Y/C.
    Fun fact: In the first half, Russell Wilson had 95 yards 1 TD, a pick 6, and 3 completions in 13 dropbacks.

    Sure seems like the prudent thing to do would be to run more, right? Don't worry, they didn't. They threw the ball 8 times on their first 3 drives of the 2nd half. Guess what? 7 of those 8 passes were incomplete! On the following drive, they ran the ball 3 straight times and got a first down. Then, they have 1 run and 4 straight incomplete passes.

    :sarcasm_on: It's a shame Pete didn't abandon his pass-first philosophy in the playoffs. I mean, his QB clearly had no time and his RB was averaging 4.8 Y/C for the game. Stubborn Pete. :sarcasm_off:
    That’s what I saw. Pete gave Russ and schotty rope this year to throw the ball all over the yard and they kept it up long after running the ball more vs 2 high was the adjustment needed, instead of scheming short middle routes that Russ ignored or executed poorly.

    Pete’s approach was vindicated if anything this year, and schotty probably didn’t want to hear Pete say we cannot pass ourselves out of it, so schotty was fired.

    The rams at their best rely heavily on the running game to get easier completions in the intermediate area, which Russ can hit. So the Waldron hire may work, but not because Pete succumbs to some WCO variant his QB can’t execute, and Waldron will not lose sight of the fact that an effective run game is part of an effective passing game. Schotty lost sight of that this year.

    Hopefully they can dress it up so that Wilson doesn’t buck the reality that we do not want him throwing 40 times a game. Really no team wants that even if their QB can sustain it an entire season. Playoff wins are about balance unless you are the chiefs, and they should have run the ball more themselves in the championship. That they didn’t pretty much sealed their fate and let the buc DL tee off all game against backup tackles.
    hawk45
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:30 pm
  • You fight like you train.

    We pushed a stupid run first philosophy for half the year. We did the bare minimum needed to be effective during the games we won. And sure it worked.

    But then the REAL games start, the games your team needs to have the QB (your best offensive asset) carry the team.

    And you haven't done this enough (as a team) to be effective at it under fire.

    Changing your gameplan literally 1 game into the playoffs is not a wise strategy. Because you need to become adept at it, learn how to deal with the pressure, find how to use the slot routes better, etc.

    We gave ourselves one game to figure out how to do an effective passing first offense, after we shut down the Russ Cook stuff that was more taking advantage of disjointed defenses than that same thing. Pete shutting down the offense for half a year, and barely using it even when he did use it ?

    That assured we would be rusty and unsure when we had to use it. Sure enough, that happened.

    The biggest problem with Pete's philosophy is it works in the regular season. It gets you wins. But since it doesn't in the playoffs, you are completely unprepared to play the other way that is required for wins in the playoffs.

    So you spend the whole year honing your skills at executing this gameplan that will not work in the playoffs to knife edge sharpness. And having mastered it, have to do something completely different in the playoffs that most of your people have very little comfort with. Weirdly, that fails regularly for you. Wonder why?

    It doesn't matter if you throw the ball 60 times in the playoff game if you are not adept as a team in executing that kind of gameplan. Pete essentially spends the whole year trying to get this team to the playoffs but setting it up for failure in the same.

    It is better to have a worse regular-season record and better record in the playoffs. Pete has never grasped that.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:33 pm
  • That the narrative on this board during and after the rams game where Carson had 7 YPC in the first half (and we didn’t ride that) was that Pete was too stubborn forcing his desired game plan is a sign to me that the magic WCO theory is just immune to facts.

    We need to win by running the ball and playing defense. Criticize Pete for not getting the D to where it needs to be (it improved but I still don’t like the gimmicky feel of the Adams solution to pass rush instead of fixing DL and not having to live and die by the blitz). Criticize Pete for not building a better OL (respectable since solari but if it’s stronger then maybe we don’t need a bell cow back like we do now and fall to pieces when that bell cow is injured). But criticizing him for being stubborn *this* year when he let Russ and schotty do whatever they wanted - I just don’t get that.
    hawk45
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:59 pm
  • Also, please go back and watch the game if you honestly think 'Carson was getting 4.8 a carry'.

    He wasn't. He was getting 2-3 yds on 1st and 10. And then Hyde would come in and get you 1-2.

    He had some big runs that jacked his stats up, but when we were something like 2nd and 25 after a QB sack.

    But running Carson 2 downs out of 10 would have just been that run run pass punt thing that helps nobody.


    A good example was his run for 15 when it was 2nd and 34. 15 yards is great but the defense was happy to give it to us to prevent a long pass for a 1st down.

    The idea that we could have won that game by riding Carson is laughable on the face of it. Maybe you can run on the Rams, but for the most part our RBs put us in passing situations by not getting the 4.8 getting pointed to. Then our QB would get sacked, putting us in even worse distance to down.

    It was a bad gameplan. Carson would not have gotten us out of it. What would have worked is having worked on a passing offense enough against good pass-rushing teams during the regular season so we were prepared for it.
    TwistedHusky
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:02 pm
  • knownone wrote:This is just not true. In the Rams playoff game, Seattle dropped back to pass 36 times, Russ was sacked on 5, he ran on 4 of them. They had 21 designed runs. So what exactly is Pete's failed philosophy? Throwing the ball?

    In the first half, 9 Runs / 13 passes.

    Fun fact: In the first half, Chris Carson had 43 rushing yards on 6 carries good for a 7 Y/C.
    Fun fact: In the first half, Russell Wilson had 95 yards 1 TD, a pick 6, and 3 completions in 13 dropbacks.

    Sure seems like the prudent thing to do would be to run more, right? Don't worry, they didn't. They threw the ball 8 times on their first 3 drives of the 2nd half. Guess what? 7 of those 8 passes were incomplete! On the following drive, they ran the ball 3 straight times and got a first down. Then, they have 1 run and 4 straight incomplete passes.

    :sarcasm_on: It's a shame Pete didn't abandon his pass-first philosophy in the playoffs. I mean, his QB clearly had no time and his RB was averaging 4.8 Y/C for the game. Stubborn Pete. :sarcasm_off:


    I feel your pain.

    I can't tell you how many times I've rewatched games and the All-22 coaches tape and wondered - why do people keep acting like this wasn't a pass first team last year...?
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