Pete Is Officially Pissed Off

[Fade]

Afams and Diggs have been playing like shit all year. Did he even take step 1 and call them out individually and privately?

I know he never took step 2 and benched them for an opening series to send a "private" public message. And he probably hasn't even thought about a step 3 or 4.

Instead, he went straight to step "never". You don't call out your people in public, except as a very last resort in rare cases where you know the person well and understand that a public call out will embarrass without shaming and causing resentment.

I've always heard about PCs great leadership and culture building. Recently, I dug up all the recent interviews and articles from the LOB-era Seahawks. What I heard was enlightening and troublesome. PC is not the leader or culture builder that people think.

No he's not.

I give him full credit for putting together the best roster in the 21st century. After that his tenure was a disaster. He had so much more talent than any opponent, it could mask the issues, but the issues were always there.

 

[strohmin]

I wouldn't call this refreshing, I'd call it alarming that it's gotten to this point. Too little too late imo.

Pete actually calling out players atleast shows hes willing to try a new approach. Even if it sounds petty and hes trying to save his job. it shows hes willing to do whatever it takes. Even if it is alarming, it feels refreshing. The next step is benching and cutting players that dont buy in. My problem with Pete till this point was not instilling some accountability in players, if he has to take it to the media to do this then so be it. It may be late but I dont think its too late. Ill give Pete till after the eagles game to decide whether its too little.

 

[Fade]

Is it possible that Pete is angry, and it's not an act? Occams Razor. The team is on a four-game losing streak. If you are pissed, Pete's probably more pissed.

He should be mad at himself.

 

[strohmin]

Afams and Diggs have been playing like shit all year. Did he even take step 1 and call them out individually and privately?

I know he never took step 2 and benched them for an opening series to send a "private" public message. And he probably hasn't even thought about a step 3 or 4.

Instead, he went straight to step "never". You don't call out your people in public, except as a very last resort in rare cases where you know the person well and understand that a public call out will embarrass without shaming and causing resentment.

I've always heard about PCs great leadership and culture building. Recently, I dug up all the recent interviews and articles from the LOB-era Seahawks. What I heard was enlightening and troublesome. PC is not the leader or culture builder that people think.

Maybe you should share some of these articles and interviews. I only know of how he coddled Russell but other than that what other troubling things has he done?

 

[irfuben32]

I don't care what you say to Jamal Adams, he is never going to be able to cover Deebo Samuel.

 

[Fade]

I don't care what you say to Jamal Adams, he is never going to be able to cover Deebo Samuel.

Yep. Putting players in position to fail, then get angry when you lose them.

What a joke.

 

[hoxrox]

I don't care what you say to Jamal Adams, he is never going to be able to cover Deebo Samuel.

They practiced against this play last week. It's not something they haven't seen before.

JA should have seen it coming. He's been distracted with the twitter crap last week. That's why it was frustrating and that's why Pete called him out.

 

[irfuben32]

They practiced against this play last week. It's not something they haven't seen before.

JA should have seen it coming. He's been distracted with the twitter crap last week. That's why it was frustrating and that's why Pete called him out.

Adams could have been in SF's huddle to hear the play call and he still isn't going to hang with Deebo Samuel. The dudes downfield coverage skills are atrocious. That's why they run those deep crossers, to get a LB or SS against a WR deep down the field. Shanahan and McVay have been carving up the Seatle D with those for years.

 

[SeAhAwKeR4life]

This could be serious; might take two full pieces of intense cinnamon gum.

 

[Maelstrom787]

aww come on where is the fun if everyone was nice. Some uncivil opinionated posts are what make this site fun and interesting.

Well yeah, but I don't know if they're really opinionated. It seems like no matter what happens, it'll just default to a negative reception regardless of whether its pretty much what people have been asking for anyway. It doesn't feel like boldness, it feels like predetermination to me and predetermination is boring because its predictable

 

[hoxrox]

Adams could have been in SF's huddle to hear the play call and he still isn't going to hang with Deebo Samuel. The dudes downfield coverage skills are atrocious. That's why they run those deep crossers, to get a LB or SS against a WR deep down the field. Shanahan and McVay have been carving up the Seatle D with those for years.

I agree that he hasn't been great in coverage but he was still in the position to make the play if he just recognized it.

 

[renofox]

Maybe you should share some of these articles and interviews. I only know of how he coddled Russell but other than that what other troubling things has he done?

I haven't kept a list of all the interviews and articles. Just search the LOB-era players names and look for them.

A good starting point is all the interviews KJ has done. All are on his YT.

Watch today's KJ podcast. He talks about PC approaching Alpha players to talk to other players on PC's behalf when there was a problem. That's not what a leader does, unless he has an issue with direct and honest confrontation. This is a severely negative "leadership" trait.

One issue that was discussed widely on all of his LOB-player podcasts was culture and accountability. The constant theme was the idea that the only accountability came from the LOB Alphas. THEY created the accountability culture, as PC and the coaching staff were not interested.

The Big Rift started when PC expressly told Sherman that RW was off limits to the player accountability culture and Sherman needed to knock it off and let everyone know.

Read Sherman's op-ed about what really happened when he left the Seahawks. Passive-aggressive disrespect even though he was loyal to the Seahawks.

Do you remember the story about Bobby hearing about his release on the news? He still hasn't really talked about it.

Search for LOB player media and read and listen. I spent days (I'm retired and doing PT so I'm bored). You will hear tidbits here and there and then be able to piece it all together.

It's amazing none of these players have come out and straight out told their stories.

Then again, they are still loyal to each other and, by extension, the Seahawks. Many have been called classless but they've shown more class than could be reasonably expected.

 

[LTH]

Is Carroll's messaging getting through?



Sounds like he doesn't care right now, because the mistakes are ramping up regardless.

This slide has brought some fire out.

As it should...let's see howvthe team reacts to it...

 

[strohmin]

I haven't kept a list of all the interviews and articles. Just search the LOB-era players names and look for them.

A good starting point is all the interviews KJ has done. All are on his YT.

Watch today's KJ podcast. He talks about PC approaching Alpha players to talk to other players on PC's behalf when there was a problem. That's not what a leader does, unless he has an issue with direct and honest confrontation. This is a severely negative "leadership" trait.

One issue that was discussed widely on all of his LOB-player podcasts was culture and accountability. The constant theme was the idea that the only accountability came from the LOB Alphas. THEY created the accountability culture, as PC and the coaching staff were not interested.

The Big Rift started when PC expressly told Sherman that RW was off limits to the player accountability culture and Sherman needed to knock it off and let everyone know.

Read Sherman's op-ed about what really happened when he left the Seahawks. Passive-aggressive disrespect even though he was loyal to the Seahawks.

Do you remember the story about Bobby hearing about his release on the news? He still hasn't really talked about it.

Search for LOB player media and read and listen. I spent days (I'm retired and doing PT so I'm bored). You will hear tidbits here and there and then be able to piece it all together.

It's amazing none of these players have come out and straight out told their stories.

Then again, they are still loyal to each other and, by extension, the Seahawks. Many have been called classless but they've shown more class than could be reasonably expected.

Ive watched and listened to all these interviews but I never get the sense they lack respect for pete. Pete was being a good leader by letting the alpha dog players make the rest of the team accountable. The only rift I saw was the Russell Wilson one as I stated. As far as the Bobby release, that was a bone headed move by the org. The only player that I think hates Pete is Earl but other than that I havent heard anything bad about the culture that Pete created other than what is already publicly known.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I want to do something here to make sure I'm remaining objective. I want to examine my own contradiction, and will do so in view of all.

In the past, I've said that I am generally in favor of keeping absolutely everything in-house, as much as possible, outside of praise and non-divisive forms of accountability (self-reflection, etc.) This, of course, is in direct conflict with my own feelings of refreshment at an angry Pete Carroll.

I suppose my fandom is a bit backed into a corner here. I love Pete, man. I do. I know he's worn out most of his goodwill among the crowd, but I enjoy Pete's personal philosophy and the way it's paid dividends for not just himself, but his organizations. His energy is something I aspire to.

Man, I get up in the morning and head to work. I do my job through gritted teeth half the time, from my own perspective. But I'm generally described as chipper, team-oriented, etc. Maybe it's just that I grew up with Pete (I was 14 when he was hired) but I think he's been a big influence on shaping the better attributes of my nature. I try to be energetic, uplift others, and move us all towards a goal. I think I derive elevated enjoyment out of those things in no small part because the Seahawks are a huge part of my life and they had a different energy because of that guy.

It gets harder each year to defend the results, though. That hurts me, because I don't want to have to acknowledge that this isn't working as well as it used to.

When Pete came into the league, he wasn't necessarily angry, but he was a determined son of a bitch. He turned over every stone to make this team in his image. The front office ripped apart the world looking for their guys, and they got them. Success seems to have tempered that specific sense of "I'm going to grab the world by the horns and hump it into submission," but it never hampered his energy which puts most of my fellow twenty-somethings to shame, let alone his fellow septuagenarians.

The anger we saw from him, which is just about as uncharacteristic as it gets for the Pete we know today, is analogous to that determination. He's backed into a corner, and he's showing some signs of trying to punch out of it. Those signs of life, after years of these slips and slides, give me something to chew on other than "What the hell does the future hold from here?"

Yes, in an ideal world, I don't like this specific manner of messaging. But backs against the wall, feeling the sand slip through our fingers yet again... I'm game for anything as long as it isn't some Baghdad Bob "everything is fine" stuff.

The core attribute of Pete's entire ethos, his life force, is competition. He's gotta compete harder than ever.

TL;DR: My thoughts in this thread are directly contradictory to the things I've said in the past. I think it important to own up to that and explain.

 

[renofox]

I want to do something here to make sure I'm remaining objective. I want to examine my own contradiction, and will do so in view of all.

In the past, I've said that I am generally in favor of keeping absolutely everything in-house, as much as possible, outside of praise and non-divisive forms of accountability (self-reflection, etc.) This, of course, is in direct conflict with my own feelings of refreshment at an angry Pete Carroll.

I suppose my fandom is a bit backed into a corner here. I love Pete, man. I do. I know he's worn out most of his goodwill among the crowd, but I enjoy Pete's personal philosophy and the way it's paid dividends for not just himself, but his organizations. His energy is something I aspire to.

Man, I get up in the morning and head to work. I do my job through gritted teeth half the time, from my own perspective. But I'm generally described as chipper, team-oriented, etc. Maybe it's just that I grew up with Pete (I was 14 when he was hired) but I think he's been a big influence on shaping the better attributes of my nature. I try to be energetic, uplift others, and move us all towards a goal. I think I derive elevated enjoyment out of those things in no small part because the Seahawks are a huge part of my life and they had a different energy because of that guy.

It gets harder each year to defend the results, though. That hurts me, because I don't want to have to acknowledge that this isn't working as well as it used to.

When Pete came into the league, he wasn't necessarily angry, but he was a determined son of a bitch. He turned over every stone to make this team in his image. The front office ripped apart the world looking for their guys, and they got them. Success seems to have tempered that specific sense of "I'm going to grab the world by the horns and hump it into submission," but it never hampered his energy which puts most of my fellow twenty-somethings to shame, let alone his fellow septuagenarians.

The anger we saw from him, which is just about as uncharacteristic as it gets for the Pete we know today, is analogous to that determination. He's backed into a corner, and he's showing some signs of trying to punch out of it. Those signs of life, after years of these slips and slides, give me something to chew on other than "What the hell does the future hold from here?"

Yes, in an ideal world, I don't like this specific manner of messaging. But backs against the wall, feeling the sand slip through our fingers yet again... I'm game for anything as long as it isn't some Baghdad Bob "everything is fine" stuff.

The core attribute of Pete's entire ethos, his life force, is competition. He's gotta compete harder than ever.

TL;DR: My thoughts in this thread are directly contradictory to the things I've said in the past. I think it important to own up to that and explain.

Thank you for that. What helps me puts things in perspective is your relative youth. You speak and write at a level much higher than your age and experience. When reading your posts, I always pictured you as about 20 years older and judged your posts based on the expectation that you had much more experience than you actually have. It helps to see where you are really coming from so please forgive me for being a little too harsh at times.

We all want what's best for the Seahawks. Based on our own experiences we'll all have a different perception of what the best move forward should be. Understandable.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Thank you for that. What helps me puts things in perspective is your relative youth. You speak and write at a level much higher than your age and experience. When reading your posts, I always pictured you as about 20 years older and judged your posts based on the expectation that you had much more experience than you actually have. It helps to see where you are really coming from so please forgive me for being a little too harsh at times.

We all want what's best for the Seahawks. Based on our own experiences we'll all have a different perception of what the best move forward should be. Understandable.

Getting down to a human level is a tried-and-true way to foster some shared understanding. Gets harder each year with how emotionally invested we are in a team that hasn't met our collective expectations. Sometimes it's easier just to say "you know what? You're my enemy right now because I disagree with your ideas about a football team." but that doesn't really lend itself to objective and nuanced conversations that are based in truth. I'm certainly guilty of that a lot, and sorry that I totally do the same. To everyone.

But at the end of the day, we all do have that shared purpose of wanting Seahawks success. Well, save for some possible trolls, at least.

I also find it worthwhile to consistently call out my own contradictions or inaccuracies in view of others here. I don't harbor any delusions about being an "influence" or "leading by example" since this is just a fan message board and it ain't all that important. Still, I think this is a healthy behavior, and I can implicitly trust those who make a point to do it because I know they're after genuine truth.

 

[Ozzy]

Maybe you should share some of these articles and interviews. I only know of how he coddled Russell but other than that what other troubling things has he done?

He didn’t just coddle Russ he coddled the LOB guys too. Sherman was calling out the OC publicly in back to back games and was allowed to do it. It baffles me people forget this. Earl did weird stuff, browner, Bennett, Sherman etc they were all spoiled in a sense

 

[knownone]

Getting down to a human level is a tried-and-true way to foster some shared understanding. Gets harder each year with how emotionally invested we are in a team that hasn't met our collective expectations. Sometimes it's easier just to say "you know what? You're my enemy right now because I disagree with your ideas about a football team." but that doesn't really lend itself to objective and nuanced conversations that are based in truth. I'm certainly guilty of that a lot, and sorry that I totally do the same. To everyone.

But at the end of the day, we all do have that shared purpose of wanting Seahawks success. Well, save for some possible trolls, at least.

I also find it worthwhile to consistently call out my own contradictions or inaccuracies in view of others here. I don't harbor any delusions about being an "influence" or "leading by example" since this is just a fan message board and it ain't all that important. Still, I think this is a healthy behavior, and I can implicitly trust those who make a point to do it because I know they're after genuine truth.

I appreciate the perspective, but you might be taking things too seriously, Mael.

There are rarely objective truths in football conversations outside of numbers—which are themselves pretty easy to disregard. For example, people on this forum call objective metrics subjective because they don't match their eye test. Striving for the truth is an impossible gambit. You've got the mind for academia, where detail and nuance are celebrated. Try as you might, you won't find that much on a football forum.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I appreciate the perspective, but you might be taking things too seriously, Mael.

There are rarely objective truths in football conversations outside of numbers—which are themselves pretty easy to disregard. For example, people on this forum call objective metrics subjective because they don't match their eye test. Striving for the truth is an impossible gambit. You've got the mind for academia, where detail and nuance are celebrated. Try as you might, you won't find that much on a football forum.

Perhaps I mean something different and I'm explaining it poorly. I think that's probably what I'm doing.

I guess by objective, I really mean intellectually consistent. I want to ensure that my views are balanced between analysis and emotion, and above all, I want to evaluate my own thoughts objectively. I'll never be objectively right or wrong about the big picture. I lack the access and overall football knowledge for that sort of thing.

I want to avoid fitting the world into my own narrative and bending a collection of factoids to fit that picture. Confirmation bias kills the quest for truth.