Where did Pete go wrong?

[bigcc]

How was it great if Ricardo was the player receiving the pass? Where is the responsibility of recognizing the personnel on the field? How was it great when Browner knew what the play was before they even got lined up and told Butler to get ready and jump it? Did everybody forget Browner was on the team the year before and saw that play everyday in practice? How was it great when your asking your short QB to throw a quick pass over tall linemen in a congested area? How was it great when they didn't use utilize the strength of their personnel and run Lynch who just gashed their very gassed and tired defense the play before?

It wasn't a great play. It was a play called out of panic because Pete and Bevell had absolutely no idea what to do when Belichick didn't call a timeout.

Before standing on your hill, you might want to watch the Luke Willson episode on KJ's podcast. He'll tell you how great of a play call it was.

Luke is, and always was trash I don't need his input (I've seen it anyways).

If the ball is thrown low on an inside slant like you're taught in high school, the worst thing that happens is an Incompletion... Ricardo literally has to reach up because russ threw it so high

BTW height irrelevant, the snap was out of shotgun and there was nobody within 3 yards of him, and the throw was outside the pocket anyways, there was nothing to throw around it was just a TERRIBLE throw

 

[Parallax]

There is nothing truthful about slander.

Slander is a lazy disingenuous habit.

And speaking truth is not slanderous.

 

[bigcc]

Slander is a diversion from a practitioners miserable life.

Football forums are a notorious magnet.

It's not that deep lol, talking football is fun even when in disagreement, it's part of what you sign up for as a sports fan

At the end of the day we all want the same thing, seahawks rejuvenation and the 9ers to get brutally slaughtered broncos style in the superbowl

 

[Parallax]

Luke is, and always was trash I don't need his input (I've seen it anyways).

If the ball is thrown low on an inside slant like you're taught in high school, the worst thing that happens is an Incompletion... Ricardo literally has to reach up because russ threw it so high

BTW height irrelevant, the snap was out of shotgun and there was nobody within 3 yards of him, and the throw was outside the pocket anyways, there was nothing to throw around it was just a TERRIBLE throw

That may be true but there's definitely a lot of risk in throwing the ball in that situation. QBs don't always place the ball perfectly. Russ was (and remains) short as QBs go. It wasn't that we lost that created such a deep and lasting wound in the program. It was the way we lost. I'll never believe we shouldn't have handed it to our great running back and dared New England to stop him.

 

[Jville]

And speaking truth is not slanderous.

And whose truth would that be?

The Slanderer?

 

[Parallax]

It's not that deep lol, talking football is fun even when in disagreement, it's part of what you sign up for as a sports fan

At the end of the day we all want the same thing, seahawks rejuvenation and the 9ers to get brutally slaughtered broncos style in the superbowl

Absolutely!

 

[Parallax]

And whose truth would that be?

The Slanderer?

You and I, brother, are going to have to agree to disagree. Let's not cross the line into name calling.

 

[bigcc]

The LOB was one of the most talented defenses to ever grace a football field. I said earlier, he was capable of winning when graced with enormous talent. MacDonald got guys like Madubuike and Queen playing at a higher level than they'd ever played before. That's one of the signs of a great coach. I'm hopeful he can do it for our guys. We'll see.

I truly believe he can do the same thing here

I also know it's going to take time and some growing pain

It's easy to be all sunshine and rainbows now, but when the losses come with that growing pain I'm certain a large portion of the fanbase that's only followed football in the carroll era of seahawks football are going to be in for a surprise and be ready to jump ship in a hurry

 

[Parallax]

I truly believe he can do the same thing here

I also know it's going to take time and some growing pain

It's easy to be all sunshine and rainbows now, but when the losses come with that growing pain I'm certain a large portion of the fanbase that's only followed football in the carroll era of seahawks football are going to be in for a surprise and be ready to jump ship in a hurry

I agree. Which is why teams sometimes stick with a guy like Carroll too long. We have to be willing to rebuild. Many fans will understand but not all.

 

[bigcc]

That may be true but there's definitely a lot of risk in throwing the ball in that situation. QBs don't always place the ball perfectly. Russ was (and remains) short as QBs go. It wasn't that we lost that created such a deep and lasting wound in the program. It was the way we lost. I'll never believe we shouldn't have handed it to our great running back and dared New England to stop him.

That's a completely fair opinion

The only thing I'm saying is that it wasn't one of the worst plays of all time, just bad throw and wrong personnel.... I appreciate what Ricardo did for the team, but in reality he shouldn't have even been on the field

 

[bigcc]

You and I, brother, are going to have to agree to disagree. Let's not cross the line into name calling.

I honestly don't know if he's talking about me or you lol

We're disagreeing on topics but you've been very respectful, probably more than I have, I blame the alcohol lol

Talking about football wouldn't be fun if it was an echo chamber, especially during the offseason when there isn't stuff like upcoming matchups to talk about

 

[pittpnthrs]

Luke is, and always was trash I don't need his input (I've seen it anyways).

If the ball is thrown low on an inside slant like you're taught in high school, the worst thing that happens is an Incompletion... Ricardo literally has to reach up because russ threw it so high

BTW height irrelevant, the snap was out of shotgun and there was nobody within 3 yards of him, and the throw was outside the pocket anyways, there was nothing to throw around it was just a TERRIBLE throw

Disregarding a player that was on the team because you don't like him. Lol.

Yeah Wilson could have thrown the ball better, but the saddest thing is he shouldn't have had to for a couple reasons. First, the pass wouldn't have been near as bad if Ricardo wouldn't have half assed his route and hit his mark. Second, the pass should have never happened because the worst call in NFL history should have never been called in the first place.

 

[Parallax]

I honestly don't know if he's talking about me or you lol

We're disagreeing on topics but you've been very respectful, probably more than I have, I blame the alcohol lol

Talking about football wouldn't be fun if it was an echo chamber, especially during the offseason when there isn't stuff like upcoming matchups to talk about

I'm mostly in agreement. When people get judgmental and begin insulting each other or calling names, that's over the line for me. But you've not done that at all. I appreciate your opinions.

 

[bigcc]

Disregarding a player that was on the team because you don't like him. Lol.

Yeah Wilson could have thrown the ball better, but the saddest thing is he shouldn't have had to for a couple reasons. First, the pass wouldn't have been near as bad if Ricardo wouldn't have half assed his route and hit his mark. Second, the pass should have never happened because the worst call in NFL history should have never been called in the first place.

See I was in agreement until the worst call in nfl history. For whatever reason beast was stuffed at the goal line repeatedly throughout the season.

Go rewatch the play and tell me butler catches it if the ball isn't thrown above Ricardo's shoulders

Russ rushed the play and blew it

 

[strohmin]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the play call was great..... Just not to ******* Ricardo and not throwing the ball so ******* high and floaty, low bullet so only the receiver can get it and be braced in case he gets lit up opposed to high and helpless.

People also forget marshawn was sub .500 within the 3 on the goal line.... For whatever reason he was getting stuffed there throughout the season

I'll stand on this hill until I die, it wasn't the call, it was russ

How is it a great call when you call it for the worst personel possible? You had Russell who hadnt proven himself as a pocket passer, Ricardo Lockette who was the worst wr on the team and Jermaine Kearse trying to set a pick against Brandon Browner who was one of the best at press coverage and who also happen to know whats coming because he played for Carroll. They could have atleast run a play action to utilize Marshawn. It was a terrible playcall because they had the worst possible personel to run that play. They would have been better off running a play that allowed Russell to run around for 10 seconds and perform some miracle.

 

[bigcc]

How is it a great call when you call it for the worst personel possible? You had Russell who hadnt proven himself as a pocket passer, Ricardo Lockette who was the worst wr on the team and Jermaine Kearse trying to set a pick against Brandon Browner who was one of the best at press coverage and who also happen to know whats coming because he played for Carroll. They could have atleast run a play action to utilize Marshawn. It was a terrible playcall because they had the worst possible personel to run that play. They would have been better off running a play that allowed Russell to run around for 10 seconds and perform some miracle.

I'm right there with you about the personnel, I'm defending the play solely from x's and o's.

I've always had a hunch that russ audibled to it, he is giving the ol a switch before the play, I'm guessing code for pass blocking but that's only a guess.

Rewatch the play as much as it hurts dude, it was a TERRIBLE throw, some jv toss.

BTW Luke kuechly thought it was a great call too from a scheme perspective. Again if you throw it low it SHOULD be a very very low risk play.

It always amazes me that carroll somehow gets the fault when russ handed the ball over throwing that duck, that would have been a heroic catch even if butler wasn't there

After seeing how russ has done in Denver I don't know how anyone can tell me with a straight face that Pete was the problem and not russ

 

[Spin Doctor]

People keep thinking there's this plateau of success above Pete that others were attaining and he was consistently falling short of. But there weren't. The only teams performing better than him were the Patriots and Chiefs, and everyone knows why. After that, there was Pete Carroll and then a whole lot of nothing.

Bad drafting capped his potential here after 2013. The fact that he was still the best coach in the NFC during that period is a testament to his coaching. Letting him leave was an enormous gamble, and had Mike Macdonald not wanted to come here, we'd be left holding the bag right now.

How long do you want Carroll to be coaching Seattle, one year? Two years?, Three year? Carroll was going to be the oldest coach to ever coach an NFL game at some point during the 2023 season. In addition to that, Carroll's teams started to show diminishing returns. I get that Carroll was successful, but it was time.

Carroll was defensive coach that couldn't build a defense. It has been since 2016 that the Seahawks have fielded a top 10 defense. In recent years the Seahawks were near the bottom of the league in defense. In addition to this, our post season record has been absolutely dismal since we lost the Super Bowl. We had exactly one playoff win in a 7 year span, that win? It was against a 40+ year old McCown that was suddenly thrust into the game due to an injury.

To add insult to injury, Carroll was unable to keep up with McVay and more recently Kyle Shanahan. Carroll went 2-4 the conference this season. If not for a normally reliable, Matt Prater missing two easy field goals, Carroll would be 1-5 in the division. Mind you, this was in a season that Pete Carroll absolutely destroyed our cap and sold out to try and make a deep post season run, in addition to trading a second round pick for a player not on the books past 2023.

We also must mention that the last two times we were in the playoffs we were escorted out by out by divisional rivals in an embarrassing fashion. It's Pete Carroll's inability to challenge McVay and more recently Shanahan that really led to Carroll's demise here.

There was also a caviler attitude that some of our players had. The team was undisciplined and some of our guys just seemed to be going through the motions. Carroll even publicly called out some of these guys in a press conference which is rare.

We could keep going and parsing through things, but I think you get the point. Carroll is absolutely, unquestionably the best Seahawks head coach ever. There is NO denying that. Will Mike Macdonald be as successful as Pete was here? I wouldn't take that bet, Carroll's overall body of work is impressive, even the staunchest of his detractors has to acknowledge that. Will he give the Seahawks a better long term prognosis than Pete Carroll? That I would bet on.

Pete had 1 year left on his contract with an option for an extra year attached. Given Carroll's age and the current state of the roster, do you think it made much sense to continue with Pete? Do you think in two years, he could make a Super Bowl run given our salary cap situation and various holes in the roster? Don't forget now, Pete hasn't even been competitive with 2/3 of our division rivals for years at this point.

If the answer you gave to that last question is "no" then it doesn't make sense to keep Pete Carroll on the team given his age. You're just wasting time at that point to fulfill the rest of his contract. We're at the point were we need a long term plan in place, Carroll didn't have such a plan. Pete kept making short term based decisions to go for a run when we didn't have the roster for it. Thie current situation given Pete's age would be a purgatory. Carroll would not have had the roster ready in just this offseason and possibly another one to make any sort of run, lets be real here -- especially with the looming cap issue. Seattle is in a position where we need to jettison some players and make some hard decisions, hard decisions that will inevitably create more holes to patch up.

 

[xray]

It doesn't matter any more what PC did or didn't do in the past . It's a new era for everyone now .

 

[olyfan63]

See the Chiefs

Yes, we'll "See the Chiefs" in the Super Bowl once again, is your point about the playoffs requiring elite talent to win, or something else?

 

[Msfann]

Considering everyone knew how to beat it, pretty strange he had one losing season the past 12 ******* years

Yeah but zero championships after the first is my point. It worked at first then it didn't. Even winning seasons without a championship is a failure, ask the Mariners.