2017 to be Pete Carroll's Get It Done or Move On Season?

[hawknation2017]

As for the infamous play, the execution of the play by the WR's was the bigger fail than the call itself IMO. But that's football. You move on and each year stands on it's own. It's disappointing that some of the players and fans cannot do that.

The call was so bad and caused such an epic fail that the players and fans have every right to still be upset and torn about it. The biggest crime is nobody was held accountable for it. Sorry, but somebody needed to go for a failure of that magnitude. If somebody did get canned, the players might have moved past it, but here we are 2 years removed from it and its still causing ripples.

Look, enough of this, games don't come down to one play. For example, we didn't lose to the Giants twice because of those two end of game catches. We lost because we didn't put ourselves in position to absorb those plays.

The Patriots did lose to the Giants because of those two end-of-game catches. Those were game-defining plays that resulted in Giants' victories. They were not the sole cause of the Giants' victories, but they were a cause. In legal parlance, they were a "but for" cause of the Giants winning. Everything has multiple causes but certain events are conditions precedent to the end result.

That doesn't mean the Patriots deserve any less credit for their victory. In fact, the pick play demonstrated the true mastery of Bill Belichick. Most other coaches would have called a timeout in that situation to preserve time. But Belichick isn't like most other coaches.

He increased his own probability of victory by not calling a timeout, keeping the pressure of a ticking clock on the Seahawks, and forcing the Seahawks coaches to negotiate the balance between running enough time off the clock in case they scored quickly and preserving enough time to run four plays if needed.

This decision, in essence, shortened the Seahawks' playbook, reduced the chance of a high-probability running play, and increased the likelihood of a lower-probability quick pass to stop the clock. By their own admission, the Seahawks coaches explained after the fact that they believed they needed to throw the ball in order to preserve enough time to run up to four plays if they needed them.

Belichick also deserves a ton of credit for his player preparation. I believe Malcolm Butler was the one who said they had practiced this exact red zone "pick play" in practice during the lead up to the Super Bowl. The Seahawks had run the play in a different situation before. Based on their alignment and need for a quick pass to stop the clock, Belichick's tactical decision made the Seahawks much more predictable and less effective than you would expect from the #1 power offense vs. the #32 power defense. Once again, kudos to him. This is just one example -- one of many -- illustrating why he will go down as one of the best coaches in history.

 

[Seymour]

.... Losing to the Rams 9-3 should tell you how elite this team was last season.

If one game can tell an entire seasons story then what do the Patriots and Falcons games from 2016 tell you?

See? Doesn't work that way. No single game will dictate the level the team has or will play. How our offensive line matched up to the opposing teams D was a far bigger factor to the outcome of any game last year. More so than the hangover from any 2014 vets left on the team for certain.

 

[sutz]

A lot of speculation, opinionating, and psychoanalyzing going on in this thread.

:snack:

 

[Largent80]

Like I said before. Whiners are gonna whine.

People who bitch about EVERYTHING seem to love to do it.

 

[Grahamhawker]

Emotional maturity is a wonderful asset with which to work thru life's disappointments. It is also a great facilitator for learning.

True, and emotional maturity dictates honesty.

The Hawks have under-performed the last two seasons. Last season there were games we got our asses handed to us.

The trend is downward.

Some of us hope to see that trend reversed, but that won't happen if people don't demand it to be so.

I recall some posts early in the season indicating there was trouble with the team. Those people were dismissed as naysayers. As the season progressed and it became more difficult to ignore the team's issues, more were willing to share similar concerns, but still, others denounced those concerns and remarked how we were "going to the playoffs again."

Then some of us indicated that though the Hawks were playoff bound, the team was not a real threat to make it to the SB. And again, others attacked that premise.

The more mature, reasoned, and realistic views won out. The Hawks stumbled and fell far short and proved to be a paper tiger come playoff time.

Real fans don't merely see them through the false prism of the smile and nod casual fan. Since the failed Super Bowl repeat, the Hawks have been on the decline. Last year that decline was as precipitous as it has been with this team in quite some time.

I read most of the posts in this thread with mild interest. While my interest in the Hawks is great, and I enjoy meaningful discussion here, I just don't get the thought process behind some of these posts, notably the highlighted parts in this one.

We can discuss, speculate, "analyze", suppose, predict, opinionate, all we want; it's only to appease our own selfish interest. That's as far as it goes.

OK- I demand the Hawks win the SuperBowl this season. Hope it works!!

 

[nash72]

.... Losing to the Rams 9-3 should tell you how elite this team was last season.

If one game can tell an entire seasons story then what do the Patriots and Falcons games from 2016 tell you?

See? Doesn't work that way. No single game will dictate the level the team has or will play. How our offensive line matched up to the opposing teams D was a far bigger factor to the outcome of any game last year. More so than the hangover from any 2014 vets left on the team for certain.

Those 2 games? I admit that I was surprised we beat New England. Clearly Seattles Super Bowl last season. The Atlanta game didnt give me any confidence at all. Seattle won a game at home that they should have lost which told me that if we ran into the Falcons again in the Playoffs, they were going to drum us up. Well, you know what happened with the rest of that story.

 

[nash72]

As for the infamous play, the execution of the play by the WR's was the bigger fail than the call itself IMO. But that's football. You move on and each year stands on it's own. It's disappointing that some of the players and fans cannot do that.

The call was so bad and caused such an epic fail that the players and fans have every right to still be upset and torn about it. The biggest crime is nobody was held accountable for it. Sorry, but somebody needed to go for a failure of that magnitude. If somebody did get canned, the players might have moved past it, but here we are 2 years removed from it and its still causing ripples.

Look, enough of this, games don't come down to one play. For example, we didn't lose to the Giants twice because of those two end of game catches. We lost because we didn't put ourselves in position to absorb those plays.

Super Bowl 49 did. Bevell called a play that was so bad the Seattle ripped defeat out of the hands of victory.

Actually you kind of did lose due to those catches.

 

[Largent80]

Keep whining Nash, you are a pro at it.

 

[nash72]

Keep whining Nash, you are a pro at it.

Not nearly as efficient as you butting in on discussions that dont pertain to you, but your always good for a laugh.

 

[RiverDog]

I have to agree with Nash that someone should have been held accountable for that play call in SB 49. There are times when the decision was so poor and the consequences so momentous that someone has to be sacrificed in order to maintain credibility with your subordinates. I've seen it happen in the real world on a number of occasions.

The problem is that without a viable replacement, firing an OC could be cutting off your nose to spite your face. It could easily make the team worse. I would have fully supported Pete had he decided to fire Bevell yet I can admire him for sticking up for his guy.

 

[semiahmoo]

I have to agree with Nash that someone should have been held accountable for that play call in SB 49. There are times when the decision was so poor and the consequences so momentous that someone has to be sacrificed in order to maintain credibility with your subordinates. I've seen it happen in the real world on a number of occasions.

The problem is that without a viable replacement, firing an OC could be cutting off your nose to spite your face. It could easily make the team worse. I would have fully supported Pete had he decided to fire Bevell yet I can admire him for sticking up for his guy.

Problem is, the players themselves, at least some of the critical ones, don't seem so loyal to Pete because of that decision.

Early last season some of us were warning things were not well in Hawk-Land. Others scoffed at such concerns.

In the end, it sadly became clear the Hawks were likely never a top-tier team last season and perhaps not since the Super Bowl loss. The foundation appears in danger of crumbling away.

Pete Carroll will leave on his own terms. He may choose to remain until his contract is up in 2018.

I'm thinking if he has another sub par season like last year's where the Hawks had games they were blown out of and were never a real threat to return to the Super Bowl, let alone win it, he might bow out after next year.

Sure that's conjecture - but this is a football blog. The entire premise is based on conjecture.

 

[chris98251]

That play definitely has caused some unity damage on the team and maybe a bit of angst between offense and defense, the amount of time the defense is on the field and lack of points has caused riffs as well. We don't see a lot of open quotes or pointed statements about others, but body language says a lot on game days. Especially if you look back a few years to now and the player and coach interaction.

 

[BostonBlackie]

As for the infamous play, the execution of the play by the WR's was the bigger fail than the call itself IMO. But that's football. You move on and each year stands on it's own. It's disappointing that some of the players and fans cannot do that.

The call was so bad and caused such an epic fail that the players and fans have every right to still be upset and torn about it. The biggest crime is nobody was held accountable for it. Sorry, but somebody needed to go for a failure of that magnitude. If somebody did get canned, the players might have moved past it, but here we are 2 years removed from it and its still causing ripples.

Look, enough of this, games don't come down to one play. For example, we didn't lose to the Giants twice because of those two end of game catches. We lost because we didn't put ourselves in position to absorb those plays.

Those were game-defining plays that resulted in Giants' victories. They were not the sole cause of the Giants' victories, but they were a cause. In legal parlance, they were a "but for" cause of the Giants winning. .

No they weren't. Neither of those catches were for TDs. In the second game I can say the defining play was Welker's drop of Brady's pass, which gave the ball back to the Giants. You can point to all kinds of plays. The fact is the Giants played us close enough to tip the balance in the closing minutes in 2 SBs. The fact is, we played you close enough to tip the balance in the final two minutes by stopping you.

And what about this play by the Giants, or lack of a play by us, in '07?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUGj5qQFnnc

 

[MontanaHawk05]

A lot of speculation, opinionating, and psychoanalyzing going on in this thread.

:snack:

Yeah, I guess I'm emotionally immature for thinking that a team that reaches the divisional round for the fifth straight year with half a dozen Pro Bowlers in tow is actually an underperforming team whose head coach is about to quit, and that injuries may have had something to do with not reaching the Super Bowl.

:r2d2:

 

[BostonBlackie]

As for the infamous play, the execution of the play by the WR's was the bigger fail than the call itself IMO. But that's football. You move on and each year stands on it's own. It's disappointing that some of the players and fans cannot do that.

The call was so bad and caused such an epic fail that the players and fans have every right to still be upset and torn about it. The biggest crime is nobody was held accountable for it. Sorry, but somebody needed to go for a failure of that magnitude. If somebody did get canned, the players might have moved past it, but here we are 2 years removed from it and its still causing ripples.

Look, enough of this, games don't come down to one play. For example, we didn't lose to the Giants twice because of those two end of game catches. We lost because we didn't put ourselves in position to absorb those plays.

Super Bowl 49 did. Bevell called a play that was so bad the Seattle ripped defeat out of the hands of victory.

Actually you kind of did lose due to those catches.

I think this says more about you then the games being discussed.

 

[BostonBlackie]

I have to agree with Nash that someone should have been held accountable for that play call in SB 49. There are times when the decision was so poor and the consequences so momentous that someone has to be sacrificed in order to maintain credibility with your subordinates. I've seen it happen in the real world on a number of occasions.

The problem is that without a viable replacement, firing an OC could be cutting off your nose to spite your face. It could easily make the team worse. I would have fully supported Pete had he decided to fire Bevell yet I can admire him for sticking up for his guy.

Problem is, the players themselves, at least some of the critical ones, don't seem so loyal to Pete because of that decision.

.

Well, if true, that's a big mistake on their part.

 

[Jville]

I think it improbable that any and all claims of mental anguish will ever result in anything instructive or useful.

All this conjecture that there remains some kind of team rift is without merit. These guys place great emphasis on communication and learning and growing together as a team. It has been and continues to be a well covered Seahawk trademark.

 

[Josea16]

This thread is laughable and can the offseason get done already.

 

[chris98251]

This thread is laughable and can the offseason get done already.

NO IT CAN'T not for like 4 more months

We have not had the Uniform thread or the bash the draft picks threads yet.

 

[Josea16]

This thread is laughable and can the offseason get done already.

NO IT CAN'T not for like 4 more months

We have not had the Uniform thread or the bash the draft picks threads yet.

Dammit!