2nd Round pick potentially taken away from Hawks...

[drrew]

I heard somewhere, I can recall where, that the Colts did the same thing with Andrew Luck in the 2015 season (broken ribs) but didn't get any penalty. Just doesn't make sense penalize one team and not another.

Colts got no penalty, Redskins, Ravens, Bills fined 20k each. Jets fined $75k.

Linking this to the OTA penalty and jumping from a 5th round forfeiture to 2nd round forfeiture would really be outrageous.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Just to be clear, missing practices with an NIR designation doesn't really matter at all in this case.

Players miss practice all the time for NIR. It's more commonly referred to as a 'veteran rest day'. It doesn't/won't apply or impact anything with the Sherman case.

What will be the determining factor is that we never disclosed the injury and whether or not the medical records can confirm it was actually a significant injury. Those are the only two criteria and they both need to be true.

I still don't get it. That would mean that both Sherm and the team both knew about the injury, however minor, and still trotted him out there every week. They would both be complicit. Wouldn't that be counterproductive to both parties. The Hawks couldn't force him to play. Sherm doesn't have any huge incentives in his contract does he, where if he plays every game he gets an additional million dollars?

 

[Coug_Hawk08]

This seems incredibly extreme given prior punishment or lack there of for the same issue (which is not even a big deal). No doubt previous penalties this year are playing a part.

In any case, why on earth did Pete expose this in the way that he did. Incredibly dumb.

 

[gowazzu02]

I said in another thread. when your the bad boys of the nfl and you give the nfl an opportunity, dont be surprised when they drop the hammer.

Sherman took every opportunity to bash the league and the commish...........i bet we lose the pick

 

[JimmyG]

I heard somewhere, I can recall where, that the Colts did the same thing with Andrew Luck in the 2015 season (broken ribs) but didn't get any penalty. Just doesn't make sense penalize one team and not another.

Colts got no penalty, Redskins, Ravens, Bills fined 20k each. Jets fined $75k.

Linking this to the OTA penalty and jumping from a 5th round forfeiture to 2nd round forfeiture would really be outrageous.

It doesn't surprise me at all. We've had 2 OTA violations in three years, and now this.

What did we learn from Deflategate (which also had an egregious, unreasonable punishment associated with it)? Repeat offenders will be hit, and will be hit hard.

 

[JimmyG]

This would be completely ridiculous by the NFL. By all accounts Sherman practiced fully every practice and he definitely played in every game. EVERY single player in the NFL has some sort of injury by mid season. Any injury that a player can practice through isn't serious enough to need to be reported. If they choose to single out the Seahawks, it will sour even more people on the NFL as a whole, and Roger Goodell specifically. The entire league has players playing hurt that aren't on their reports.

I agree, but on the other hand, the injury was obviously relevant enough that Carroll used it as an excuse. If it was so minor/inconsequential, why would he mention it at all? Can't have it both ways.

 

[mikeak]

If he didn't practice or miss games I could see it, but he played almost every snap.

Exactly. And can't players be held out of practice later in the season just to give them a rest? Does there have to be an injury associated with it? If there has to be, that would be news to me. And like you said, HE PLAYED EVERY GAME.

Irrelevant

Each team is obligated to provide injury information regardless of playing status

What was stupid is not putting him on the list even if they go the Patriots route and list half the team

Then followed up with actually talking about it at the end of the season like it wasn't a big deal that they ignored following protocol

followed by a lame "I didn't handle it well"

It is a completely disregard of the rules the league has in play. It is absolutely IRRELEVANT if we like the rules. We come out and slam players when they smoke pot for their inability to follow the rules. Well this will the third penalty on this team in the past two years.

On the front office that gets paid to know these things (2 practice penalties and now this)

 

[Zombie Hawk]

This is ridiculous. He didnt miss practice or games so where do you draw the line on what needs to be reported? If someone stubs their toe do they have to be on the injury report?

Also Pete is a complete dumbass for making those comments. When it comes to injuries and the media just STFU. Not sure if he was trying to make excuses for Sherman or what, but this is really bad.

 

[mikeak]

I heard somewhere, I can recall where, that the Colts did the same thing with Andrew Luck in the 2015 season (broken ribs) but didn't get any penalty. Just doesn't make sense penalize one team and not another.

Colts got no penalty, Redskins, Ravens, Bills fined 20k each. Jets fined $75k.

Linking this to the OTA penalty and jumping from a 5th round forfeiture to 2nd round forfeiture would really be outrageous.

Luck was one game right? I didn't look at the others -- either way doing it for half the season is different

 

[fridayfrenzy]

I don't follow how a penalty could be handed out given the fact Sherman practiced every day (for most part) and played in every game. The questionable and doubtful tags are based on the chances of playing in a game and how a player practiced throughout the week.

Getting treated for an injury and actually having a chance of missing time are not the same thing or else you'd have an injury report of 46 players every week for every team.

 

[kidhawk]

On the front office that gets paid to know these things (2 practice penalties and now this)

The practice penalties aren't on the front office, that is on the players. Too much contact in non-contact practices was caused by player interactions. The front office can't control that.

I said it before, and I'll reiterate, not listing a Sherman injury doesn't really help us all that much. I'd rather they list it and have qbs throw his way and test him, because even hurt he's bound to pick some of those off and even hurt he was our best corner. Everything we do is risk vs reward and the risk here is high with reward being very little and perhaps even negative impact.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

I still don't get it. That would mean that both Sherm and the team both knew about the injury, however minor, and still trotted him out there every week. They would both be complicit. Wouldn't that be counterproductive to both parties. The Hawks couldn't force him to play. Sherm doesn't have any huge incentives in his contract does he, where if he plays every game he gets an additional million dollars?

Well obviously Sherman knew about the injury. But it's not his place to publicize or disclose it. I'd be shocked if any player actually has a thought that they should take it upon themselves to make sure the public and the NFL knows about any injury they incur.

So I wouldn't find it reasonable to apply a term like 'complicit' in any case.

The responsibility falls entirely on the franchise. And the details of these injury reports are probably as benign to players as any other garden variety official team to NFL communications.

If this ends up being true, my guess would be that it was a pretty innocent mistake of the rules on the part of someone on the team. Probably not even high up. Whether or not they were unaware that the injury had to be disclosed regardless of practice time missed or expectation to play is really irrelevant. Ignorance of the rules won't mitigate any penalty.

It seems more likely that this low level function was handled improperly instead of some dark conspiracy to gain a competitive advantage. This would certainly account for Pete's subsequent admission that he wasn't even aware that the injury wasn't disclosed. It's conceivable and even probable that Pete doesn't manage the practice report at all.

It does seem like this is more of an institutional/process failure.

 

[mikeak]

On the front office that gets paid to know these things (2 practice penalties and now this)

The practice penalties aren't on the front office, that is on the players. Too much contact in non-contact practices was caused by player interactions. The front office can't control that.

I said it before, and I'll reiterate, not listing a Sherman injury doesn't really help us all that much. I'd rather they list it and have qbs throw his way and test him, because even hurt he's bound to pick some of those off and even hurt he was our best corner. Everything we do is risk vs reward and the risk here is high with reward being very little and perhaps even negative impact.

I put PC and coaches under Front Office -- they control practices not the players. If not this team has bigger issues

If a player does hit someone and you "bench" them and have a standdown on the field then I doubt that league will punish you. If you keep going on with practices and say nothing and it happens again - different story.

 

[SeahawksFanForever]

I heard somewhere, I can recall where, that the Colts did the same thing with Andrew Luck in the 2015 season (broken ribs) but didn't get any penalty. Just doesn't make sense penalize one team and not another.

Colts got no penalty, Redskins, Ravens, Bills fined 20k each. Jets fined $75k.

Linking this to the OTA penalty and jumping from a 5th round forfeiture to 2nd round forfeiture would really be outrageous.

Luck was one game right? I didn't look at the others -- either way doing it for half the season is different

League is inconsistent with these punishments. I agree with that but Pete can't make it this easy for the league by openly admitting to the media. They didn't even need to do any investigation, evidence of wrongdoing, etc.

 

[Hasselbeck]

I need this thread to be moved to the Shack for my actual opinion.

Goodell is a complete joke and ffs Pete why did you bring this on

 

[Siouxhawk]

If I were Pete, I would say what others have said here and tell the NFL that I would have listed Sherm as "probable each week. But since the league no longer requires coaches to submit "probable" reports anymore, it would be a moot point. This way you would admit to a minor injury, but coupled with the fact that he played every game, there was nothing to be worried about.

 

[SeahawksFanForever]

If I were Pete, I would say what others have said here and tell the NFL that I would have listed Sherm as "probable each week. But since the league no longer requires coaches to submit "probable" reports anymore, it would be a moot point. This way you would admit to a minor injury, but coupled with the fact that he played every game, there was nothing to be worried about.

John Schneider is going to have to figure out a way to deal with this. He must be really upset right now. Your whole strategy to tackle free agency & draft changes when you lose a pick.

 

[Chukarhawk]

Won't happen.

Wont happen, cant happen actually, if you look at the rules. they weren't required to report it

 

[Siouxhawk]

OK simple question -- what is the intent of this rule? I can think of 3, but it's just speculation. 1) Betting lines. Informs the public and bookmakers. 2) Players safety. Maybe it's tied into the CBA. 3) Allows opposing coaches a chance to gameplan better with that pertinent information.

 

[ringless]

Won't happen.

Wont happen, cant happen actually, if you look at the rules. they weren't required to report it

They were required to report it. But I agree it WONT happen.

All players who have significant or noteworthy injuries must be listed on the Practice Report, even if the player takes all the reps in practice, and even if the team is certain that he will play in the upcoming game. This is especially true of key players and those players whose injuries have been covered extensively by the media.

Is an MCL injury noteworthy or significant? Yes. It states even if he takes all reps in practice he must be reported. According to the league rules.

(C) suffers a significant or noteworthy injury without missing or failing to finish a game must be included on the Practice Report each day of the following week

A 2nd round pick is extremely obsessive IMO. (Although I wouldn't be disappointed) The reasoning a 2nd is even being discussed if it actually is (and again wont happen) is because this would be a 4th violation the Seahawks would be penalized for since 2012.

If I was non-biased I would say a fine would be fair. Pete knew about the injury, their are MRI's to prove it, he admitted to not disclosing is over a long period of time. The rules stat it had to be listed despite practicing in full or not and he wasn't. A draft pick, especially a 2nd is absurd yes. But again, 4 violations, much like criminal proceedings are eventually going to lead to harsher punishments.

Here is a quote from Pete himself:
"You don't know that he dealt with a significant knee the whole second half of the season and it was stressful for him to try to get out there,"

Pete calls it significant, and that it was the whole half of the season. He also says it was stressful for Sherman to get out there. That seems to fall in line with the rules outlined in the operations report.