49ers bench Colin Kaepernick, Gabbert era begins

Popeyejones

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peachesenregalia":1weynzfb said:
Why are you still in love with Trent Baalke?

Said this before, but I like Baalke b/c almost always he plays the draft and FA the right way when looking at the statistical odds.

In terms of outcomes the draft and FA are crap shoots; if they weren't everybody wouldn't be wrong most of the time.

Basically I'll like Baalke as long as he keeps playing the odds correctly, and will stop liking him the moment he stops.

Marvin49":1weynzfb said:
rideaducati":1weynzfb said:
I bet York doesn't roll ANY of the cap money into next year's cap.

Well they've been rolling it into the next year EVERY year so not sure why you'd think they'd stop now.

I'm not sure what the max is on that tho.

Yeah, don't really see any reason why they wouldn't but god, they have a ton of money, and I really hope they don't need to roll it over.

If they're making a bunch of flashy FA signings at the top of the market I think it would be a HUUUUUUGE mistake.

Really the best thing that happend to the Raiders this year is that FAs didn't want to go there at the top of the market, which forced them to not end up overpaying for marginal talent again. :lol:

greenblue_eye's2":1weynzfb said:
^Absolutely this!!! Jed needs to step down as the CEO of the 49ers, with Baalke, & Tomsula being let go of after this season ends. Then bring in a "real Football Person," like a Carmen Policy, to hire a GM, who will eventually hire the new Head Coach of the 49ers.

I think people dramatically overestimate York's involvement in day-to-day operations. He's never been the team president like Jerry Jones is or Al Davis was. If people want to criticize him for having non "football guys" as team president (first Yu, then Marathe) that's one thing, but I seriously think (likely due to Kawakami) that a lot of people falsely believe he's much more involved than he actually is.

I do think though that they could stand to have a director of football operations that's coordinating with Marathe on the business side and between Baalke and the coach on the product side.
 

Popeyejones

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peachesenregalia":36mfurpp said:
You're delusional, popeye, but whatever.

Okay. Right. What am I delusional about?

You believe that out of the thousands and thousands of people who are professionally employed to predict future performance, even with hundreds of stochastic processes involved, there is actually a group of magicians that stand out from ordinary men?

Sorry, it's just a type of magical thinking I don't subscribe to. It's like betting on a hot hand rather than playing the odds at a craps table. It's just simply dumb.



EDIT: Worth saying that in a vaccuum the draft and FA are obviously not entirely random events (like craps), but that's not really descriptive of the real world, as individuals don't actually act in vacuums. Rather, the presence of 31 other mostly rational actors introduces randomness that for craps is embedded within the rules themselves. A good GM is taking advantage of the irrational pockets present in the interactive system.

My point is that after-the-fact evaluation of performance in a stochastic system based on outcomes has largely missed the point of what "smart" and "dumb" play is.
 

Laloosh

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Popeyejones":37ouw6n5 said:
I think people dramatically overestimate York's involvement in day-to-day operations. He's never been the team president like Jerry Jones is or Al Davis was. If people want to criticize him for having non "football guys" as team president (first Yu, then Marathe) that's one thing, but I seriously think (likely due to Kawakami) that a lot of people falsely believe he's much more involved than he actually is.

I do think though that they could stand to have a director of football operations that's coordinating with Marathe on the business side and between Baalke and the coach on the product side.

I know very little about the guy. I have heard some of his interviews but it's mostly what I get from you and Marvin. Reminds me of a consulting firm that I worked for. Always came in with the lowest bid, promised the world and then under delivered because they overruled and undercut the people that knew what they were doing.

They made gobs of money for a while but it cost them quality employees and led to a smaller pool of talented resources that could no longer deliver anything near what they were promising clients. Eventually the company consisted of a few executives performing the duties of program managers or writing white papers for a quick buck because nobody wanted to work for them.

I may be wrong but it honestly is the impression that I have.
 

hawksfansinceday1

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rideaducati":1u9zzouz said:
Niners bench Kaepernick? Nobody saw that coming two years ago...except me.
I did and we discussed it. We also predicted he'd be out of the NFL on here a couple months ago. I said 3 years, you said 2. Looking more and more like you'll win that one.



If Baalke and York (I'm not including Tomsula in this cuz he's just a Bobo for Trent and Jed) think Gabbert is the answer, they're even dumber than I thought. Dude is flat out total crap as an NFL QB. I'm guessing they're not that stupid though and this, like many have said here, is a deflection of blame game.
 

Scottemojo

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The word "era" might be a bit to long to describe how long Gabbert is going to be the starter.
Gabbert sucks.

If the QB that has had success can't take the next step and make reads, get remedial. run screens, rubs, clearouts, drags, and draws. Go back to some of the Roman stuff where he would flood one side.

But if you intend to get him more confident, this isn't it.

These are the desperate moves men make when they fear for their jobs.
 

Marvin49

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Honestly I think Kap will get back into the starting lineup this season...either Gabbert sucking as bad as we all expect or getting hurt.

What happens then is probably more of the same issues Kaps had all year because all of the problems around him aren't going away any time soon.
 

rideaducati

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Marvin49":kntsn7e1 said:
Honestly I think Kap will get back into the starting lineup this season...either Gabbert sucking as bad as we all expect or getting hurt.

What happens then is probably more of the same issues Kaps had all year because all of the problems around him aren't going away any time soon.

I don't think they'll risk an injury to Kaepernick. If practice is any indication of Gabbert and Kaepernick, Gabbert has always been the better QB and it will show on the field. Gabbert NEEDS the O-line to play better than Kaepernick does, but he throws the ball MUCH better than Kaep. I think the niner players have seen enough of both guys at practice to know that Gabbert is just a better player and will play harder for him than they did for Kaepernick. Guys let down when they know that the coaches aren't playing the players that give them the best chance to win. I think you'll see a better niner team for the next few weeks, but being better still won't be good enough to win many games.
 

chris98251

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Funny thing is pretty much everyone that Mcloughlin scouted and help pick are now gone, what you have is a roster of Baalke picks. How's that working out now.

I will also add he was very involved in our scouting and assisting Schneider. He may have had a substance problem but the guy has laser eyes for talent.

Kind of curious to see if Gruden stays in Washington what year three will look like, they should start seeing the results there also.
 

Marvin49

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chris98251":2eui5wll said:
Funny thing is pretty much everyone that Mcloughlin scouted and help pick are now gone, what you have is a roster of Baalke picks. How's that working out now.

I will also add he was very involved in our scouting and assisting Schneider. He may have had a substance problem but the guy has laser eyes for talent.

Kind of curious to see if Gruden stays in Washington what year three will look like, they should start seeing the results there also.

I'll never berate McCloughan from a talent evaluation perspective. He picked Smith over Rodgers and selected Balmer and Manny Lawson in the first round, but he also selected Staley (and traded up to do so), Vernon, Frank, Pat, and many others.

I hated losing him.

While true that this is now a team of Baalke picks, it's kinda important to note that the biggest areas of concern on the team right now were the losses of players that Baalke drafted.

The most damaging losses in the offseason thus far from a personnel perspective have been Anthony Davis, Mike Iupati (whom I admittedly thought wouldn't be a big deal...it was), and Aldon Smith. All of those guys were drafted by Baalke. Baalke even drafted a replacement for Willis...who also retired (Borland).

What those losses have obscured are some other players he selected that look pretty good right now. Aaron Lynch. Carlos Hyde. Jaquaski Tartt. Kenneth Acker. Poor Lynch is getting double teamed on every down because they don't have a guy like Aldon on the other side. Hyde can't stay healthy and his line keeps getting him (and every other SF back) hit in the backfield. Tartt and Acker have looked good, but with no pass rush QBs have been able to tee off all season.

Without the line play on either side of the ball, the Niners are simply dead in the water. They will not improve until those areas are addressed. They need a complete overhaul on the Offensive Line and they need some pass rushers.

Yes, the team is comprised mostly now of Baalke selections and they suck hard right now, but a lot of the players they lost in the offseason were some of Baalkes best selections.

I'm not trying to make out that Baalke is the best GM in the NFL (tho I love the way he moves around on draft day), but saying they are losing just because they lost the McCloughan picks isn't really the entire picture.

EDIT:

Just to further illustrate the point on the O-Line...this from Matt Maiocco...

--Center Marcus Martin ranks 30th of the 30 players at his position who have played 50 percent or more of the snaps this season. Martin is 23rd in pass-blocking and last in run-blocking.

--Right guard Jordan Devey ranks 55th of 56 guards overall. He is 54th in pass-blocking and 50th in run-blocking.

--Left guard Alex Boone is surprising low, too. He is 36th overall among all guards, including 53rd in run-blocking. As a pass-protector, Boone is rated No. 22.

--Right tackle Eric Pears ranks 53rd out of 60 tackles in the NFL. He is 34th as a pass protector, and 59th out of 60 when he comes to blocking on running plays.

--Left tackle Joe Staley, a four-time Pro Bowl selection, has clearly been the 49ers’ best offensive lineman – again. Staley is the league’s No. 6-rated tackle. He is 15th as a pass-blocker, and 11th while blocking for the run. He also gets positive marks for screen-blocking and avoiding penalties, raising his overall grade to one of the top in the NFL.


Now the logical argument here is that 4 of those guy were Baalke guys and that's fair, but Baalke also drafted Davis and Iupati. The real disappointment has been Marcus Martin and Brandon Thomas...the latter of which hasn't even been active for a game. No idea whats up with that.

Thankfully they are finally set to get Daniel Kilgore back in the next month or so to get Martin off the field.

I have maintained and still say the last two losses of the 49er offseason were by far the most damaging. Anthony Davis and Aldon Smith.
 

RichNhansom

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Those picks you want to give credit to Ballke were all on the draft board made up at least in part, by McLouhan.

Ive also noticed that Ballkes drafts seem to mirror Mayoks mock drafts. I serioisly wonder if he is using Mayoks picks.

I also believe losing Cowboy probably hurt worse than any other loss. He kept you LB's clean and allowed them to reak havoc. Without him and RayMac it is exposing your LB crew.
 

Marvin49

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RichNhansom":16kx7q7d said:
Those picks you want to give credit to Ballke were all on the draft board made up at least in part, by McLouhan.

Ive also noticed that Ballkes drafts seem to mirror Mayoks mock drafts. I serioisly wonder if he is using Mayoks picks.

I also believe losing Cowboy probably hurt worse than any other loss. He kept you LB's clean and allowed them to reak havoc. Without him and RayMac it is exposing your LB crew.

Jeez...THAT argument again.

McCloughan was checked out. He was drunk in meetings. He was late or didn't even show up to meetings at the combine. He was let go FOR A REASON. I love the guy as a talent evaluator, but the "Baalke followed McCloughans draft board" has always been ludicrous. Baalke was McCloughans right hand man and helped build that board and other boards to begin with. I'm not crediting Baalke with any McCloughan drafts, so please stop giving McCloughan credit for a draft where he wasn't even in the room and had been checked out for months.

This image of the falling apart Scot putting together this master board that idiot Baalke passed on to the team as if it were on stone tablets is hilarious.

Those players BTW you are referring to were Davis and Iupati. Navorro Bowman was also the 3rd round pick that year. Aldon was selected the following year, along with Kap, Culliver, Kilgore and Bruce Miller.

As for Mayock, I highly doubt it. I do tho have a lot of respect for Mayock...much more than any other draft analyst.
 

RationalNiner

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Marvin49":9cze7h4x said:
Jeez...THAT argument again.

jeez man stop talking bad about my team. im starvin marvin, hungry for a 49er win. Starvin marvin, the great defender of all things 49ers.
 

Marvin49

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RationalNiner":3avcw697 said:
Marvin49":3avcw697 said:
Jeez...THAT argument again.

jeez man stop talking bad about my team. im starvin marvin, hungry for a 49er win. Starvin marvin, the great defender of all things 49ers.

How irrational.
 

Marvin49

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More on the crappiness of the 49er O-Line...

Jeff Deeney ‏@PFF_Jeff · 2m2 minutes ago
#49ers running backs on the season are averaging 0.97 yards per carry before contact.


...does that count as defending all things Niner?

Matt Barrows ‏@mattbarrows · 1m1 minute ago
From @PFF: #49ers RBs average 0.97 yards per carry ***BEFORE*** contact. Falcons' Devonta Freeman averages 2.44 YPC before contact. #woeline


...and despite that, Carlos Hyde STILL has 470 yards and averages 4.1 yards per carry. Imagine if the dude could just get a few guys blocked in front of him.
 

Laloosh

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Marvin49":1gvphwm1 said:
More on the crappiness of the 49er O-Line...

Jeff Deeney ‏@PFF_Jeff · 2m2 minutes ago
#49ers running backs on the season are averaging 0.97 yards per carry before contact.


...does that count as defending all things Niner?

Matt Barrows ‏@mattbarrows · 1m1 minute ago
From @PFF: #49ers RBs average 0.97 yards per carry ***BEFORE*** contact. Falcons' Devonta Freeman averages 2.44 YPC before contact. #woeline


...and despite that, Carlos Hyde STILL has 470 yards and averages 4.1 yards per carry. Imagine if the dude could just get a few guys blocked in front of him.

I'd love to have access to those stats. Killing me that nobody has done an article on Wilson's splits inside/outside the pocket in the past 2 years.
 

kearly

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When I hear people saying "Blaine Gabbert era," that's when I know the "Jared Goff era" has officially begun.
 

Marvin49

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kearly":iqz2718m said:
When I hear people saying "Blaine Gabbert era," that's when I know the "Jared Goff era" has officially begun.

Possible.

IF they are truly done with Kap (and I'm not 100% convinced they are), then my fear is that they are just good enough to get them out of the first round QB conversation.
 

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Marvin, I agree with you. While I feel Kap has issues, I also think he is worlds better than Gabbert. If the team is truly tanking for the 1st pic its sad. I think Kap can be a ok QB, but needs a perfect situation. And SF is not it or hate to say it will not be it for some time. Im not 100% sold on the fact Kap is done in SF. This iwnership has really screwed the poich big time. There are not to many coaches in the nfl that can micromanage Kap. I feel bad for him but I think we need a cerebral QB that is acurate and can adapt as changes gappen in the league.

Question is who is that QB.
 

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