Benoit on the Double Edged Sword that is Russell Wilson

[Anthony!]

Well, as much as I love Russ, the hero balls in to coverage need to be cut way back. No reason they can't just take what the D gives them and check down to guys who are open. I get it that they have made some great plays on long passes, but he needs to be more selective about it imo.

First off the "hero Ball" is crap. That is not what the play is. 2nd if you listened to the announcers last game you would have heard them say numerous times there were not short or intermediate routes being run, they were all go routes, so what would you have him do when the only option he has is long routes. Now that is not always the case, however, unless you are Rw seeing what he sees, form his angle you really have no clue what is happening all you know is hey he is open short why throw long, there may be a legit reason for it. One would think having 6 years of great play, an SB, numerous trips to the playoffs RW would get the benefit of the doubt, but a few here use it as their excuse to rag on him, To them, I say go watch another team. You want to complain when he throw a stupid interception I get it, so am I. However this I saw something open, or shy do this is crap. Argue fact, not perception.

Ummm....throw it away? :roll: Pretty much anything but throw into double coverage against top pass defenders.

Soulfish is correct. We both stick up for Russell plenty, and that was a hero ball shot by definition right there.

"Throw it away" If Wilson was asked he would agree the duck into double coverage was a bad choice.

Pretty sure is asked he would say hope Doug does not fall/get pulled down and stops running on the other

 

[Seymour]

First off the "hero Ball" is crap. That is not what the play is. 2nd if you listened to the announcers last game you would have heard them say numerous times there were not short or intermediate routes being run, they were all go routes, so what would you have him do when the only option he has is long routes. Now that is not always the case, however, unless you are Rw seeing what he sees, form his angle you really have no clue what is happening all you know is hey he is open short why throw long, there may be a legit reason for it. One would think having 6 years of great play, an SB, numerous trips to the playoffs RW would get the benefit of the doubt, but a few here use it as their excuse to rag on him, To them, I say go watch another team. You want to complain when he throw a stupid interception I get it, so am I. However this I saw something open, or shy do this is crap. Argue fact, not perception.

Ummm....throw it away? :roll: Pretty much anything but throw into double coverage against top pass defenders.

Soulfish is correct. We both stick up for Russell plenty, and that was a hero ball shot by definition right there.

"Throw it away" If Wilson was asked he would agree the duck into double coverage was a bad choice.

Pretty sure is asked he would say hope Doug does not fall/get pulled down and stops running on the other

Come on Anthony! You are pretty sure Russell is going to throw his WR under the bus by saying he quit running?

That is the most ridiculous thing I've seen you post yet. You know nothing about Wilson if that thought even crosses your mind. That is a complete insult to everyone here's intelligence.

 

[Anthony!]

Ummm....throw it away? :roll: Pretty much anything but throw into double coverage against top pass defenders.

Soulfish is correct. We both stick up for Russell plenty, and that was a hero ball shot by definition right there.

"Throw it away" If Wilson was asked he would agree the duck into double coverage was a bad choice.

Pretty sure is asked he would say hope Doug does not fall/get pulled down and stops running on the other

Come on Anthony! You are pretty sure Russell is going to throw his WR under the bus by saying he quit running?

That is the most ridiculous thing I've seen you post yet. You know nothing about Wilson if that thought even crosses your mind. That is a complete insult to everyone here's intelligence.

No but I was trying to make a point as PC, and DB and Doug himself said the same thing

 

[Scorpion05]

One would think having 6 years of great play, an SB, numerous trips to the playoffs RW would get the benefit of the doubt, but a few here use it as their excuse to rag on him, To them, I say go watch another team. You want to complain when he throw a stupid interception I get it, so am I. However this I saw something open, or shy do this is crap. Argue fact, not perception.

Wilson has the best numbers of his career and yet this is easily the worst season (results-wise) of his tenure here. We are 8-5 and there's a real shot we might not even make the playoffs. The offense is extremely inconsistent. This insistence that the stagnated offense drive is all Bevell's fault and the constant minimizing of Wilson's role in it is getting old. He holds his share fair of the blame for that, and many outside analysts have pointed this out.

The only infuriating part of your hot take is that it purposely, and stubbornly ignores that our offense lacks a number 1 receiving threat, no running game, and an O-line that struggled for much of the season. So the criticism is getting old, because his critiques blindly ignore it.

We are literally ONE game behind teams that are considered the best in the NFC. So complaining that we're 8-5 is ridiculous

 

[Scorpion05]

Ummm....throw it away? :roll: Pretty much anything but throw into double coverage against top pass defenders.

Soulfish is correct. We both stick up for Russell plenty, and that was a hero ball shot by definition right there.

"Throw it away" If Wilson was asked he would agree the duck into double coverage was a bad choice.

Pretty sure is asked he would say hope Doug does not fall/get pulled down and stops running on the other

Come on Anthony! You are pretty sure Russell is going to throw his WR under the bus by saying he quit running?

That is the most ridiculous thing I've seen you post yet. You know nothing about Wilson if that thought even crosses your mind. That is a complete insult to everyone here's intelligence.

He threw an interception? Man, the top Qbs never make bone headed mistakes

Wilson would never say it but he gave Doug a chance. Does Julio Jones or Fitzgerald make that catch? What about Jordy Nelson? Wilson should not have risked the throw, but you all are making it seem as if Wilson threw a ball his WR had no chance at. His worst int was to Graham, that throw needed more zip and needed to be closer to the sidelines. And even then he got baited into that throw.

 

[Anthony!]

One would think having 6 years of great play, an SB, numerous trips to the playoffs RW would get the benefit of the doubt, but a few here use it as their excuse to rag on him, To them, I say go watch another team. You want to complain when he throw a stupid interception I get it, so am I. However this I saw something open, or shy do this is crap. Argue fact, not perception.

Wilson has the best numbers of his career and yet this is easily the worst season (results-wise) of his tenure here. We are 8-5 and there's a real shot we might not even make the playoffs. The offense is extremely inconsistent. This insistence that the stagnated offense drive is all Bevell's fault and the constant minimizing of Wilson's role in it is getting old. He holds his share fair of the blame for that, and many outside analysts have pointed this out.

The only infuriating part of your hot take is that it purposely, and stubbornly ignores that our offense lacks a number 1 receiving threat, no running game, and an O-line that struggled for much of the season. So the criticism is getting old, because his critiques blindly ignore it.

We are literally ONE game behind teams that are considered the best in the NFC. So complaining that we're 8-5 is ridiculous

add in a defense riddled with injuries and we are a good FG kicker form being 11-2.

 

[Scorpion05]

No way in hell on that. Plus our oline comes with our o- coordinator.

IMO people DRAMATICALLY underestimate the effect of a QB on perceptions of offensive lines and their effectiveness pass blocking.

When Manning was on the Colts everyone thought he benefited from an O-line that pass blocked really well, and that he would be done in by a Broncos O-line that didn't.

Then he moved and everyone talked about how the Colts O-line (the same players!) were disasters in pass blocking, and the Broncos "became" one of the best pass blocking O-lines in football.

It's the same deal with the Saints, who supposedly always have an amazing O-line with great pass blockers, but as soon as those guys sign big money FA contracts with other teams every single one of them magically flames out.

Even this year it's the same deal with the 9ers. While Beathard was starting everyone talked about how the O-line was a total disaster, and since JG has been starting these last two games people are now talking about how the O-line has magically done a good job in pass-pro of protecting him.

This is, of course, absolute and total nonsense. Beathard got credit for being "tough enough" to take shots in the chin over and over again but NOBODY talked about how he doesn't feel pressure well, processes slowly like most rookie QBs, and was taking shots in the chin over and over again due to his own deficiencies at feeling pressure and moving around in the pocket. JG on the other hand, feels pressure and slide/adjusts really well.

The 9ers pass blocking magically didn't get better over night. If anything it has gotten worse since JG came in because their best pass blocking O-lineman (Trent Brown) has been out the last two weeks, and a big turd pile who Hawks fans know well (Gary Gilliam) has been starting in his place and pass blocking like crap.

Nobody wants to talk about any of this though, because they insist on it just being about the O-line.

Add even David Carr to that. Nobody talked about how Carr's sack rate followed him to two other teams, while Houston's OL immediately looked better with Matt Schaub behind it. Truth is, Carr was just really hesitant in throwing the ball, which would have been fine had he had Wilson's ability to run.

Carr never settled into another team. Didn't have much success either

With Wilson, we have a QB who's had efficient passing numbers throughout his career, along with much success. So when you prove yourself, as Wilson has then yes, the O-line debate is far different from say a David Carr

As a guy who loved watching Manning and Marvin Harrison, and saw Brady often simply because I live in the NorthEast, I just don't buy that their pressure is anywhere close to Wilson's. I don't buy that it's about how quickly they get the ball out. Especially with Brady, his most embarrassing games came against opponents who could get a hand on him

We've had this debate ad-nauseum but, I've previously quoted articles showing sports writers saying that the drop of Manning, or the struggle from Brady for like a 3-4 game stretch is present because of their O-line struggles. In Denver, or even now in New York, both Peyton and Eli got excuses for having a poor O-line

It simply amazes me how much of a short term memory the public has. There are so many hot takes that people simply can't remember when the media whined about the protection Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Stafford, and others DIDN'T get. Usually it would happen over the course of a few games, rarely would it last the entire season. But the point is, people stubbornly hang on to their pre-conceived notions. What this whole conversation boils down to is that people are betrayed by conventional wisdom. Russell doesn't have the height, the statue pocket presence, or the everyday look of what people think a Quarterback should look or play like. It confuses them. This entire Benoit article encapsulates that. Then you have a guy like Jimmy Gurrapalo or Carson Wentz to whom, people look at them and they have the height, build, and everything else they've been taught a QB is supposed to look or play like. And so it doesn't matter what the facts say

 

[JimmyG]

One would think having 6 years of great play, an SB, numerous trips to the playoffs RW would get the benefit of the doubt, but a few here use it as their excuse to rag on him, To them, I say go watch another team. You want to complain when he throw a stupid interception I get it, so am I. However this I saw something open, or shy do this is crap. Argue fact, not perception.

Wilson has the best numbers of his career and yet this is easily the worst season (results-wise) of his tenure here. We are 8-5 and there's a real shot we might not even make the playoffs. The offense is extremely inconsistent. This insistence that the stagnated offense drive is all Bevell's fault and the constant minimizing of Wilson's role in it is getting old. He holds his share fair of the blame for that, and many outside analysts have pointed this out.

The only infuriating part of your hot take is that it purposely, and stubbornly ignores that our offense lacks a number 1 receiving threat, no running game, and an O-line that struggled for much of the season. So the criticism is getting old, because his critiques blindly ignore it.

We are literally ONE game behind teams that are considered the best in the NFC. So complaining that we're 8-5 is ridiculous

Hot takes? Hot takes?!

Listen, here's some advice: first, don't use phrases that you don't understand. I do not come remotely close to "hot takes". What in blazing hell are you taking about? A "hot take" is watching Russell Wilson dance around for 9 seconds, complete a 15-yard pass, and then say "oh my god, he's the only person in the league that could have pulled that off." Yeah, he probably is, but what I can realize is that the dancing around playing sandlot football for 9 seconds is not the only way to gain 15 yards.

Nobody watches Matt Stafford do a 3-stop drop, complete a pass for 15-yards, and then jumps on Twitter exclaiming how amazing it was, but at the end of the day both plays have the same net effect. Guess what? Wilson often has the opportunity to execute those mundane plays, but instead abandons the pocket when he feels phantom pressure. Just because Wilson resorts to sandlot mode does not mean he was forced to. Often he -- NOT the line -- is responsible for the pressure. This is exactly what Benoit is addresses.

Second, here's some more advice: don't accuse me of ignoring "lacking a #1 receiving threat, having no running game, and not having an offensive line." Did you not see this long, detailed, exhaustive comparison between Stafford and Wilson's supporting cast where I outlined -- yes, specifically outlined -- running games, offensive lines, a lack of a #1 receiver? Seriously, man, that post was eight posts above your reply to me. Talk about a ****ing egg in the face, good lord.

If you can't handle legitimate criticism of our own players, kick rocks.

 

[Scorpion05]

lets put an end to this

83% of total offensive yards #1 in NFL, NFL Post SB record
97% of total offensive TDs #1 in NFL, NFL Post SB record
no run game
no #1 wr
questionable oline
questionable play calling

No Qb is doing more with less. enough said

Okay, I'll try.

Wilson accounts for 85.2% of his team's offensive yardage output. Stafford accounts for 84.2% of his team's offensive yardage output.

Wilson has bad pass blocking (#16 ranked by Football Outsiders). Stafford has worse pass blocking (#21 by FO).

Wilson's offensive line ranks #14 in power running, and #30 in FO "Stuffed Rank". Stafford's offensive line ranks #32 in power running and #32 in stuffed rank.

Lions not named "Stafford" have rushed for 902 yards. Collectively, they average 3.3 yards per carry. Seahawks not named "Wilson" have rushed for 892 yards. Collectively, they average 3.4 yards per carry.

The Seahawks have 8 wins. The score 24.2 points per game (11th) and give up 19.4 points per game (8th). The Lions have 7 wins. They score 26.0 points per game (5th) and give up 25.3 poinst per game (28th).

Stafford has a 97.9 rating. He has thrown 23 TD and has 9 INT. Wilson has a 95.5 rating. He has thrown 29 TD and has 11 INT; he has also added 3 rush TD.

Marvin Jones is not a #1 receiver. Golden Tate is not a #1 receiver. Eric Ebron is a giant bust. I would take Seattle's receivers over Detroit's receivers. What would the TD counts look like if Stafford had Jimmy Graham (9 TD total, most in Red Zone), and Wilson had Eric Ebron (2 TD total)?

Questionable play calling doesn't count. That is a cop-out excuse that every fan uses.

Do I think Stafford has been as good as Wilson? No, I don't. Do I think Wilson has been in his own stratosphere? No, I don't. Do I think Wilson is the most electrifying quarterback in the league? Yes.

Wilson has been a walking highlight reel, but I don't think his net production is as transcendent as people think. It reminds me of baseball a bit. Sort of how a flashy, 100 MPH fastball looks amazing... but sometimes a boring 92 MPH two-seamer with a little movement can yield similar results. "Sandlot football" is like a 100 MPH fastball -- it works, but it's not the only way.

So this factors in Wilson's O-line early in the season, compared with Stafford's? Wilson has had an improved O-line, but early on one could argue he easily dealt with the worst in the league

We have to stop doing this thing where we completely ignore a Quarterback's rushing statistics. Because if we are, then Russell IS in a different stratosphere than Stafford. Stafford has lost 7 Fumbles, and has had 5 games where he's thrown or rushed for ONE touchdown or less. He has TURNED OVER THE BALL FOR 9 of his 13 games so far this season ukeface:

You can only even imply that Stafford is close to Wilson if you've failed to do the research. Stafford is a perennial loser, and it's even more irritating because Stafford gets a complete free pass in the media for how much he's sucked year after year with Different coaches and good to great level weapons around him. He's also had strong defenses before, but he has so far been a pathetic Quarterback who beats up on weak competition :177692:

 

[Anthony!]

lets put an end to this

83% of total offensive yards #1 in NFL, NFL Post SB record
97% of total offensive TDs #1 in NFL, NFL Post SB record
no run game
no #1 wr
questionable oline
questionable play calling

No Qb is doing more with less. enough said

Okay, I'll try.

Wilson accounts for 85.2% of his team's offensive yardage output. Stafford accounts for 84.2% of his team's offensive yardage output.

Wilson has bad pass blocking (#16 ranked by Football Outsiders). Stafford has worse pass blocking (#21 by FO).

Wilson's offensive line ranks #14 in power running, and #30 in FO "Stuffed Rank". Stafford's offensive line ranks #32 in power running and #32 in stuffed rank.

Lions not named "Stafford" have rushed for 902 yards. Collectively, they average 3.3 yards per carry. Seahawks not named "Wilson" have rushed for 892 yards. Collectively, they average 3.4 yards per carry.

The Seahawks have 8 wins. The score 24.2 points per game (11th) and give up 19.4 points per game (8th). The Lions have 7 wins. They score 26.0 points per game (5th) and give up 25.3 poinst per game (28th).

Stafford has a 97.9 rating. He has thrown 23 TD and has 9 INT. Wilson has a 95.5 rating. He has thrown 29 TD and has 11 INT; he has also added 3 rush TD.

Marvin Jones is not a #1 receiver. Golden Tate is not a #1 receiver. Eric Ebron is a giant bust. I would take Seattle's receivers over Detroit's receivers. What would the TD counts look like if Stafford had Jimmy Graham (9 TD total, most in Red Zone), and Wilson had Eric Ebron (2 TD total)?

Questionable play calling doesn't count. That is a cop-out excuse that every fan uses.

Do I think Stafford has been as good as Wilson? No, I don't. Do I think Wilson has been in his own stratosphere? No, I don't. Do I think Wilson is the most electrifying quarterback in the league? Yes.

Wilson has been a walking highlight reel, but I don't think his net production is as transcendent as people think. It reminds me of baseball a bit. Sort of how a flashy, 100 MPH fastball looks amazing... but sometimes a boring 92 MPH two-seamer with a little movement can yield similar results. "Sandlot football" is like a 100 MPH fastball -- it works, but it's not the only way.

Okay let me help you

Stafford has thrown for 3683 yards and ran for 90 for a total of 3773 the lions have a total of 4699 yards which means Stafford accounts for 80% of the total offensive yards, not 84.2. In addition, the Lions have a total of 31 tds, Stafford has 23 which is only 69.6% of the total offensive tds. Neither is even close to what Wilson has done. Game over thanks for playing.

 

[Scorpion05]

Also to add to my last point, Stafford has 9 less touchdowns, less overall yards, more turnovers. In 11 of Stafford's 13 games, he's either turned over the ball or failed to score more than 1 Touchdown. His offense's 3rd down percentage is WORSE than Wilson's, despite having a better running game. And yes, when you minus Russell's rushing yards, Seattle has a worse running game than Detroit. That's not even including the threat of Wilson running, which is supposed to help his Rbs. In other words, Stafford is not a winner. Stafford has also benefitted from more turnovers and touchdowns from his defense and special teams.

He either costs his team with turnovers, or fails to score enough for his team, or doesn't score enough to mitigate his mistakes. He is a pitiful Quarterback who deserves as much criticism for his suckage as other Qbs. And if this was just one year I'd say okay, but he consistently fails his team. Year in and year out. Even Cam Newton is better. Benoit should revoke his writing privileges for even mentioning him and Wilson in the same sentence. How much must anyone hate Russell Wilson to ignore all of these glaring facts that proves Stafford is a loser?

 

[original poster]

This is going round in circles guys.