Bevell getting some love...

[NINEster]

Trust me, Bevell is to Wilson what Shula is to Cameron, and what early Roman was for Kap.

So Wilson sucks without Bevell? I hope you're kidding. Wilson would be Wilson with anyone. I know as a niner fan that's hard to accept but it's true. This isn't coming from a niner/Kap hater either.

I think both sides tend to be a little too extreme. The Andy Dalton analogy is actually pretty spot on. I don't think Bevell is viewed as an elite OC league wide but he isn't seen as terrible either.... He's basically Andy Dalton. You're not pining for him but if you have him you keep him.

Sucks is a strong word. You're making inferences I guess based on QB comparisons which in your opinion are not on Wilson's level.

He doesn't suck without Bevell, but not every OC will have Wilson performing at his peak. Bevell has to not only make good play calls that make the passing game easier, but also to able to run effectively. That 2nd Cards/hawks game last year, everyone was open for Seattle within a second of the ball being snapped.

Bevell has tailored the offense to make the Seahawks with Wilson as effective as possible. It's ok to accept your young QB as still a product of the system. He's not alone.

You look at Cam Newton's production the last few years and it's pretty apparent the system helps him, he helps the system back, and it's a self fulfilling prophecy towards success.

I'm on record saying these young QBs can't throw the ball 50 times a game like Philip Rivers or Tom Brady and ball out.

I always , ALWAYS call out young QBs together.......

If Wilson turns into a "great" QB in this league, it's because he was on a team that could carry him long enough to develop the skills necessary to be a true top QB. Guys like Eli Manning, Roethlisberger, Rivers, Flacco were nothing special years 2-4 and now are considered top passers.

I know you want to think he's already there because he's a Hawk but he's not there.....yet.

 

[Laloosh]

You lost me at "true top quarterback".

 

[Ozzy]

Nope he's already there but I appreciate you trying to clear it up.

 

[TDOTSEAHAWK]

I am pretty sure anyone who watches our games close enough realizes that play-design is actually one of Bevell's strong suits. So the creativity aspect is actually relatively spot on.

His biggest issue is that he is hampered a bit by Carroll's offensive philosophy, which is to run often and go for big plays, combined with our horrendous offensive line play - especially in pass protection. This is combined with the fact that he is a bit obstinate in still implementing his creative play designs knowing that the offensive line probably won't do their job.

What he doesn't get enough credit for around here is how he has made adjustments and played to some of Russel's strengths. One specific example is how good our team runs the scramble drill. Most people see Russell but don't realize that getting open and recognizing defensive breakdowns has to be a focus of the of the offence teaching to be successful. In this way, our WRs are the best in the league at recognizing defensive breakdowns and taking advantage of them. People take this for granted but it is a systems approach - it just doesn't happen.

At the end of the day, Bevell would probably be too cute if left to his own devices so I think working within Carroll's framework actually has been great for him and that our offensive line has actually made him look much worse than he is at times. This idea is further evidenced by this past season and the fact that we have had 2 distinct stretches as the leagues best offense (2nd halfs of 2012 and 2015). In this way, I would compare him more to an older Brett Favre in the sense that when he was well supported and played within the system he was very effective, but if he went off script or his offensive line sucked - it would look a bit like a disaster - whereas the Andy Dalton comparison doesn't quite appreciate Bevell's ceiling (which is quite high whether people want to believe it or not).

 

[mrt144]

I think its inarguable that Bevell has done a very good job of developing players to exceed expectations and perform at a high level relative to the league. I think it's also pretty apparent there are some gaping holes in his ability as OC, as I stated, 3rd and short passing plays. It stands to reason that the efficiency problems there aren't solely because RW just doesn't know how to execute in that situation, but the play designs are consistently in effective vs. the defenses thrown at it. If the numbers werent so drastically different relative to their 3rd and short running conversion rate and so off from the league average you might be able to chalk it up solely to execution - but this is a bright blink red LED light.

I think he's also inconsistent in situation awareness and looking for matchup exploitation. RW can do a better job of identifying those mismatches for sure but he needs the tutelage to do so and I think he can get it from Bevell for sure. On the other hand the personnel packages last year, at times, and especially with how JFG was being utilized early just caused chest pain for me. Room to improve!

I've softened on Bevell given the mentoring aspect with RW that other posters have provided but I still think there is obvious room to improve for him. Hotseat or not, I just want him to do better and I think he can.

 

[Laloosh]

I think its inarguable that Bevell has done a very good job of developing players to exceed expectations and perform at a high level relative to the league. I think it's also pretty apparent there are some gaping holes in his ability as OC, as I stated, 3rd and short passing plays. It stands to reason that the efficiency problems there aren't solely because RW just doesn't know how to execute in that situation, but the play designs are consistently in effective vs. the defenses thrown at it. If the numbers werent so drastically different relative to their 3rd and short running conversion rate and so off from the league average you might be able to chalk it up solely to execution - but this is a bright blink red LED light.

I think he's also inconsistent in situation awareness and looking for matchup exploitation. RW can do a better job of identifying those mismatches for sure but he needs the tutelage to do so and I think he can get it from Bevell for sure. On the other hand the personnel packages last year, at times, and especially with how JFG was being utilized early just caused chest pain for me. Room to improve!

I've softened on Bevell given the mentoring aspect with RW that other posters have provided but I still think there is obvious room to improve for him. Hotseat or not, I just want him to do better and I think he can.

Good point about finding mismatches.

 

[nash72]

I think Wilson makes Bevell look better than he really is. Half of the Seahawks plays are busted plays with Wilson running around like a chicken with his head cut off, and he usually makes something out of nothing. I'm sorry, but i'm just not a fan of Bevell. I think he's terrible when it comes to personnel matchups and he causes a lot of head scratching in situations that should be obvious (run when you should pass and pass when you should run). I think Seattle succeeds despite Bevell, not because of him.

 

[hawk45]

I know our offensive coordinator is a divisive topic around here, but he gets a little love from ESPNs Matt Bowen.

Bowen did an article (unfortunately, it's on Insider so I can't link it) listing his top-five most creative offensive coordinators in the NFL. If you have ESPN Insider, check it out - its a good read.

His 5: Josh McDaniels (Patriots), Mike Shula (Panthers), Sean Payton (Saints), Bruce Arians (Cardinals)

....and our very own Darrell Bevell.

He compliments Bevell primarily for designing a scheme around the unique skill set of Russell Wilson.

Thoughts?

He waited way too long to do it.

And I'm not sure I expect to see that creative scheme once the season starts. Pete is about as eager to give up the run-first mentality as...well, something unlikely.

Yeah, we all thought for sure we'd stick with the spread v Carolina and found out about Pete the hard way.

It's great, we've been successful with the run-first mentality, it has its advantages, but I don't consider it a foregone conclusion at all that our offense will enjoy anything like last year's success. Hope to be wrong.

I'd love for them to come out in the spread and see if it's happening, and if not then switch gears to the run-first pound-em later.

I'm the opposite of a Bevell-lover, but going away from the spread if it happens is all on Pete as you say. No way that Bevell doesn't much, much prefer showing his stuff in the spread. If anything Bevell has had issues with getting too cute.

 

[DavidSeven]

It's funny to me that people still don't acknowledge the fact that Russell Wilson is a QB with very distinct strengths and weaknesses and has to be catered to in a very specific way. They expect the same results in redzone and 3rd down as every other team despite the fact that his limitations obviously limit him in this regard. In fact, often our successful redzone scores and 3rd down conversions are either pure play design (thank you, OC) or a running play. Traditionally, this isn't what you pay an "elite QB" for. Those guys make their money in the redzone and 3rd down by making chicken salad out of chicken ...you know. Instead, when we get in money situations, we lean on our play calls (because we have to).

Watch Big Ben on his 2-point conversions sometime -- the Steelers convert them with incredible efficiency. Do they scheme something genius for him every time? Some elaborate combo/rub concept? No. His receivers line up, run fades or curls, and Ben gets it to the most open guy. Done and done. His physical stature helps him in this regard, the same way Russell's hinders him at times. If you think Bevell gets cute occasionally, it's because the alternative is futility.

That said, obviously Russell Wilson is a dynamic football player who has earned the "elite" label on his own terms. What's understated is the amount this coaching staff has helped him reach that level by catering to his strengths and hiding his weaknesses. The OC has not hesitated to reinvent the entire offense to help his QB. Not a lot of coaches out there who are willing (or able, frankly) to do that. He's certainly earned the praise that Matt Bowen has given him.

 

[NINEster]

I was told to look for DavidSeven's postings on .NET and must say I'm impressed with what he writes.

 

[NINEster]

Nope he's already there but I appreciate you trying to clear it up.

Go watch the 2011 NFC Championship Game, Giants vs. 49ers.....

Anything less than top QB play from Manning and SF wins that game easily. That was the last time the 49ers were good and defeated by great QB or better QB play....with the exception of the rematch the next season.

Eli's team falls apart around him and SF picks him off 5 times two seasons ago -- still a good QB.

Maybe he has fallen off a bit and just was on a hot streak that postseason, but no young QB in the league right now is where Eli was in 2011.

And it kills me typing all this Eli praise. F___.

 

[RichNhansom]

I was told to look for DavidSeven's postings on .NET and must say I'm impressed with what he writes.

Agreed, very well thought out posts with good detail and explanation.

I'm not a Bevell lover or hater but I agree with DavidDeven's post 100%.

 

[Zebulon Dak]

I was told to look for DavidSeven's postings on .NET and must say I'm impressed with what he writes.

He's good.... rrrreeally good.

 

[Laloosh]

It's funny to me that people still don't acknowledge the fact that Russell Wilson is a QB with very distinct strengths and weaknesses and has to be catered to in a very specific way. They expect the same results in redzone and 3rd down as every other team despite the fact that his limitations obviously limit him in this regard. In fact, often our successful redzone scores and 3rd down conversions are either pure play design (thank you, OC) or a running play. Traditionally, this isn't what you pay an "elite QB" for. Those guys make their money in the redzone and 3rd down by making chicken salad out of chicken ...you know. Instead, when we get in money situations, we lean on our play calls (because we have to).

Watch Big Ben on his 2-point conversions sometime -- the Steelers convert them with incredible efficiency. Do they scheme something genius for him every time? Some elaborate combo/rub concept? No. His receivers line up, run fades or curls, and Ben gets it to the most open guy. Done and done. His physical stature helps him in this regard, the same way Russell's hinders him at times. If you think Bevell gets cute occasionally, it's because the alternative is futility.

That said, obviously Russell Wilson is a dynamic football player who has earned the "elite" label on his own terms. What's understated is the amount this coaching staff has helped him reach that level by catering to his strengths and hiding his weaknesses. The OC has not hesitated to reinvent the entire offense to help his QB. Not a lot of coaches out there who are willing (or able, frankly) to do that. He's certainly earned the praise that Matt Bowen has given him.

You're growing on me. We take a lot of our shots from the 30ish yard line too. Might be somewhat influenced by not wanting to roll the dice in the red zone?

 

[hawk45]

The too cute comment refers to the 3 WRs within 5 yards of each other in the end zone brain farts. That isn't being too cute to overcome the limitations of your QB. That's out thinking yourself.
Regardless, the offensive explosion last year owed greatly to Bevell's design, made more impressive by missing Graham and Rawls.
The point was to second Montana's excellent point, which was that if we don't see the effective, dynamic spread offense next year it won't be Bevell's doing, it will be Pete's.
The acquisition of Prosise seems to speak to Pete being open to more spread concepts though.