Bevell Haters Unite!

[SalishHawkFan]

Sometimes it's hard to know how much to blame Bevell for the incompetence we've seen.

Top 10 DVOA offense for three consecutive years? Expand upon this incompetence theme? Please give some examples?

For example, Percy Harvin has been on three NFL teams now, and the Seahawks were basically the only ones who had no idea of how they were supposed to use him. Bevell worked with Harvin in 2009 and 2010 in Minnesota and used him well those seasons. I think the difficulties scheming Harvin were evidence of how Seattle's offense is not run by Bevell, but by a Carroll/Cable/Bevell triumvirate. It is likely that the difficulties in using Harvin did not come from Bevell's end.

No, they probably came from Harvin's end. That guy is about I. There is no I in Carroll's team. Did Seattle "have no idea how they were supposed to use him" or was he not willing to be used the way they intended? Guy milked an injury for most of his first year with us. He MILKED it. Guy was a cancer and a big mistake. Blame Carroll for wanting him, but it's not an example of incompetence by the offensive coaches.

Point being, it is conceivable that Bevell doesn't have as much control as a typical OC would, and therefore might not always be to blame for the developmental struggles in our offense.

A top 10 offense per DVOA. An offense that scored more than New Orleans the previous season. This is an offense being described as having "developmental struggles"?

I do think Bevell is the Andy Dalton of OCs, not outright horrible, but you would like to have better. He's been here four years and still hasn't developed a classic dropback passing offense, although he's finally started showing some signs of it with Wilson this season. Still, four years to only begin showing signs of that, three with a super hard-working QB in Wilson, is too long.

He doesn't have a classic dropback passer. Nor does Carroll want one.

He has been notoriously slow to fix problems on offense in the past, though he has gotten better at this in the last couple weeks.

They've been notoriously injured since Holmgren was coach. Name one year since that terrible season when Holmgren was coach that the oline stayed as healthy as an average NFL team?

One other thing about Bevell, most OCs have a vision and a blue-print, but Bevell, even at his best, seems to rely on feeling out a defense and adjusting as the game goes along. It has helped Seattle be a strong second half team, but sometimes it means butt ugly first halves like the one we just saw against the Rams.

Since when does having a vision or a blueprint matter more than winning? He's a counterpuncher AND a slugger wrapped up in one. Wear the opponent down with body blows, go for big plays, make halftime adjustments to finish them off. Like pounding the body early then going for the head in the later rounds.

 

[grizbob]

Don't look now, but we're poised to repete and who knows maybe three-pete. Man don't it just suck being a Seahawks fan.

 

[pehawk]

Watch the Dallas and SD games and tell me what game Bevell was calling. Dude literally went hurry up and empty set...fresh off the defense getting gashed on a bruising 15 play drive. That's just dumb, period, its not debatable. Situational awareness of a stoke victim huffing paint.

Someone has to speak up for Mr Bevell, because if there's a big call Pete goes to Cable. And, for things like Lynch's longer runs, Pete praises Cable. What makes the offense tick, the RO, is Tom Cable.

Kearly nailed it with the Andy Dalton comparison. He also overthinks himself, a lot. Dude's the Sicilian from Princess Bride.

I dont understand the "well, who'd be better then?" debate tactic. If you use that thought process Holmgren should still be here. Hass too.

 

[pmedic920]

Bevell may be a bad OC.
BUT the way I choose to look at things, being the cheerleader that I am, is this, WE won a friggin' Super Bowl last year and we are sitting on HFA for this years playoffs.
I've seen some crap over the years that I've been a fan, I can't really bitch about what's happening these days.

I'm a HAPPY 12.
GoHawks.

 

[grizbob]

Bevell may be a bad OC.
BUT the way I choose to look at things, being the cheerleader that I am, is this, WE won a friggin' Super Bowl last year and we are sitting on HFA for this years playoffs.
I've seen some crap over the years that I've been a fan, I can't really bitch about what's happening these days.

I'm a HAPPY 12.
GoHawks.

Yeah, but you're just a homer and can't be trusted :sarcasm_off: :lol:

 

[SalishHawkFan]

Watch the Dallas and SD games and tell me what game Bevell was calling. Dude literally went hurry up and empty set...fresh off the defense getting gashed on a bruising 15 play drive. That's just dumb, period, its not debatable. Situational awareness of a stoke victim huffing paint.

Someone has to speak up for Mr Bevell, because if there's a big call Pete goes to Cable. And, for things like Lynch's longer runs, Pete praises Cable. What makes the offense tick, the RO, is Tom Cable.

Kearly nailed it with the Andy Dalton comparison. He also overthinks himself, a lot. Dude's the Sicilian from Princess Bride.

I dont understand the "well, who'd be better then?" debate tactic. If you use that thought process Holmgren should still be here. Hass too.

Easy to pick out losses. Go ahead and put in your application to be OC. I'm sure you'd do a better job.

 

[pehawk]

Watch the Dallas and SD games and tell me what game Bevell was calling. Dude literally went hurry up and empty set...fresh off the defense getting gashed on a bruising 15 play drive. That's just dumb, period, its not debatable. Situational awareness of a stoke victim huffing paint.

Someone has to speak up for Mr Bevell, because if there's a big call Pete goes to Cable. And, for things like Lynch's longer runs, Pete praises Cable. What makes the offense tick, the RO, is Tom Cable.

Kearly nailed it with the Andy Dalton comparison. He also overthinks himself, a lot. Dude's the Sicilian from Princess Bride.

I dont understand the "well, who'd be better then?" debate tactic. If you use that thought process Holmgren should still be here. Hass too.

Easy to pick out losses. Go ahead and put in your application to be OC. I'm sure you'd do a better job.

You're right its easy to pick out losses. Even easier to dismiss the specifics I gave. It's also easy to just assume I haven't been consistent and provided reasons, in losses and victories, since day one. I've laid oyut lots of well thought out criticisms and compliments of Mr Bevell. If you don't understand that, then find another thread where you're lil snarky comments are coveted.

That's what pisses me off about this site and these type of debates. Douchebags like you come in, Ignore someone offering up a reason or their history of reasoned posts, just to get a cheap shot in. You and Sgt Largent must be brothers.

If your out of your depths here then don't post at all, Pooky. Your post is a big part of the problem and its a tired act.

 

[SomersetHawk]

Sometimes it's hard to know how much to blame Bevell for the incompetence we've seen.

Top 10 DVOA offense for three consecutive years? Expand upon this incompetence theme? Please give some examples?

I'll be your huckleberry for this one. Marshawn Lynch and Russell Wilson are more often than not going to ensure you rank pretty well in DVOA, whether you've got Bevell or Tokadub as OC.

DVOA's weighting on situational statistics means they put more on things like runs for 1st downs for example. Well between Lynch and Wilson Seattle beats everybody in that category. You could argue that we're one of the top running teams in the league so of course we're going to rank well in those particular categories, but then why would be giving credit Bevell for that?

Obviously there's more to DVOA than that, but it's not hard to see that our running game gives us a huge advantage in terms of this particular statistic that you brought up. If you'd used it as part of an argument in support of Cable then I'd more willingly accept it.

Also the Falcons, Bears, Saints and Chiefs all technically finished with above average DVOA scores though I'm not particularly impressed with their Offenses.

 

[hawks4thewin]

Baldwin is just trying to increase the chance he gets a job somewhere else.

This ^^^

 

[BlueTalon]

I don't know if Bevell sucks or not. But if we keep winning Super Bowls, he can suck here for as long as he likes.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Bevell is as ho hum as you can get at OC. I likened him once to a chess player, he carefully sets up his opponents, and spends most of the game trying to set up that one move that will put his opponent in checkmate. The problem is, games are four quarters long. As a result of trying to bait a defense, our offense struggles for at least one half, most times until the middle of the third quarter. If Seattle did not have the defense that they do, Bevell would not do very well here.

Moreover, Bevell ignores traditional formations, and the fundamentals all too often. For example, the I-formation is seldom used in our offense, and when we do use the I-formation 95% of the time it is a run. You're leaving a lot of possibilities on the table when you completely ignore the I-formation on a team that is the most run heavy in the league. I saw a stat that showed that no team passed less from the I-formation. This perplexes me, because Wilson is great at executing the play action fake, and has shown that he is adept at passing out of traditional formations.

Bevell also is too slow to adjust to what defenses are doing. Our offense will disappear for sometimes whole games, then all of the sudden go off for two 80 yard drives at the very end of the game. As others have said, Bevell's situational awareness is also lacking. His play calls on third down often times have me scratching my head.

In the end I feel like this offense is too reliant on Russell Wilson's improvisational abilities. We don't move the ball very well unless Wilson works his magic. National pundits have also commented on the fact that the Seahawks routes were lacking, whenever I've seen all-22 or have been at games I have to agree. You compare it to a Sean Payton offense, or a McCarthy offense and ours looks very mediocre strictly from a play design, and situational standpoint.

 

[pehawk]

I haven't been a Bevell guy since day one. I didn't get the hire. Still don't really. But, he showed a huge progression against the Cardinals. For the first time, he installed blitz beaters.

His lack of blitz beaters, especially as a counter-punch OC, was horrific and defied common sense. I know a lot of us we're shocked when we saw those calls that Sunday night. If the aforementioned trend continues, well, I probably will have less criticisms.

Besides, it's Cable's offense, period. Watch Pete on key downs...notice who he speaks to. Review the titles of Cable and Bevell and it's easy to see who Petes leaning on.

 

[bjornanderson21]

Come on guys,

Bevell is at best a below average offensive coordinator. Baldwin has nice things to say about Bevell and that is fine but it doesn't make him a fantastic coordinator. I don't think he has bad play designs but I don't think he has any situational awareness at all.

Most everyone will agree that the Seahawks are a running team, a control the clock type of team. Empty backfield is only ok on obvious passing downs, yet Bevell continues to take our strength out of the equation everytime Wilson is back there by himself. Bevell continues to try to pass when he should be looking to run time off the clock especially when we are ahead by more than one score.

While I admire Baldwins loyalty to Bevell, it doesn't change the fact that Russell Wilson's legs, not Bevell's play calling masks the offensive inefficiency of this team. Russell Wilson's legs extend drives which in turn nets yards. The Seahawks defense gives us more drives which in turn nets yards. Our Beast's running style and strength extend drives which in turn nets yards. I am sorry I just don't buy the Bevell is a great coordinator card. I have to tell you what I see with my eyes not with my loyalty to the Seahawks and their staff.

Here is a good link to what Russell has done this year with his legs. Yes, I know some of Russell's runs have been called by Bevell, but lets be real here most of time he is just running for his life.

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blog ... 11024&wjb=

For all the people who like Bevell, I am guessing you will get to have him as a coordinator for as long as we are winning. I agree that it is hard for some people to be critical of a guy when we just won a superbowl. I do give Bevell a pass on personnel which he hasn't had a ton to work with.

I agree completely. Good post

 

[NFSeahawks]

Untire Helfrich

 

[themunn]

Bevell's offense just wasn't good enough this year.

Did you know that despite losing Zach Miller, Sidney Rice, Golden Tate prior to the season and Percy Harvin midseason (not to mention picking up a replacement fullback midseason), his offense only finished a pathetic SEVENTH in average yards per drive? A pathetic NINTH in points per drive and a downright unacceptable FIRST in turnovers per offensive drive?

I mean come on, he has the best O-Line in the league to work with and arguably the league's best group of 4 centers to help make protection adjustments at the LoS to account for what the defense is doing (not that we played any good defenses this year, come on). He really needs to turn this top 10 offense into a top 1 offense. Anything less just isn't acceptable.

 

[seedhawk]

Maybe Bevell is a truly good OC while at the same time being an average at best playcaller. Also, altho he had the same title in Minny, Childress his HC called the plays, and he dealt with Favre, known to believe he knew more than most coaches did. (perhaps true)

He, for now, is who/what Pete wants, and we will never truly know the why of it.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Maybe Bevell is a truly good OC while at the same time being an average at best playcaller. Also, altho he had the same title in Minny, Childress his HC called the plays, and he dealt with Favre, known to believe he knew more than most coaches did. (perhaps true)

He, for now, is who/what Pete wants, and we will never truly know the why of it.

I think Bevell is more of a game planner than a play caller. I think he's really good at identifying potential weaknesses in opposing defenses, the issue is he's not very good in game. In a supporting role, or maybe as an HC I think he would be decent, but as an actual play caller he falls short.

 

[DavidSeven]

To give Cable credit for this, Carroll blame for that, etc. is useless. It is all speculation. No one knows who is responsible for what. It is as comical as posters on this forum giving Russell Wilson all the credit for good games and then deflect blame to Bevell for bad games. Uh, what? Sometimes Russell doesn't play well in spite of good playcalling. That isn't sacrilege. It's a fact.

All I know if that this staff + its players has put together a top-10 offense in spite of a lack of "paper talent" and an overall philosophy that favors the defense and simplicity. That's pretty dang good.

Gus Bradley recently fired his OC. You know why? He said he wanted his OC to focus more on execution and simple play concepts. Gus said his ex-OC gave Bortles too many play combos. Gus is a Carroll disciple, and that is the same philosophy that Pete mandates for his defense. Keep the scheme simple; let the players play fast. You folks out there dreaming of exotic route concepts and hurry-up offenses are missing the point. IMO, within Carroll's framework, Bevell has done a heck of a job.

To re-emphasize, 2014 Offense ratings: #5 Offense DVOA, #10 Passing DVOA, #1 Rushing DVOA, #9 YPG, #10 PPG.

 

[seedhawk]

Maybe Bevell is a truly good OC while at the same time being an average at best playcaller. Also, altho he had the same title in Minny, Childress his HC called the plays, and he dealt with Favre, known to believe he knew more than most coaches did. (perhaps true)

He, for now, is who/what Pete wants, and we will never truly know the why of it.

I think Bevell is more of a game planner than a play caller. I think he's really good at identifying potential weaknesses in opposing defenses, the issue is he's not very good in game. In a supporting role, or maybe as an HC I think he would be decent, but as an actual play caller he falls short.

And what you just said could well be what Baldwin was referring to. More of the big picture guy than the in the moment one.

 

[TDOTSEAHAWK]

If he is such a bad play caller, how did he call the most number of total explosive plays (runs 12+ and 16+ passes) for two years straight? Is every other great play caller not trying to do that?

I do agree that his greatest asset is probably in game planning, preparation and use of personnel - some thing that is very difficult for the casual fan to appreciate.

I for one will always appreciate how he gradually worked Russell into the offense, rather than overwhelming him; opening the playbook gradually.