Bevell Haters Unite!

[Sports Hernia]

If he is such a bad play caller, how did he call the most number of total explosive plays (runs 12+ and 16+ passes) for two years straight? Is every other great play caller not trying to do that?

I do agree that his greatest asset is probably in game planning, preparation and use of personnel - some thing that is very difficult for the casual fan to appreciate.

I for one will always appreciate how he gradually worked Russell into the offense, rather than overwhelming him; opening the playbook gradually.

Ummm he has a hugely talented QB that gets out of trouble and makes plays by extending them.
Most of the Hawks big plays are thru Wilson's improvisation or Lynch's talent to break tackles not Bevell's "genius".......... Sorry.

 

[Seafan]

Baldwin is just trying to increase the chance he gets a job somewhere else.

Or, he's trying to get more passes his way.

 

[Hawkfan77]

Bevell's offense just wasn't good enough this year.

Did you know that despite losing Zach Miller, Sidney Rice, Golden Tate prior to the season and Percy Harvin midseason (not to mention picking up a replacement fullback midseason), his offense only finished a pathetic SEVENTH in average yards per drive? A pathetic NINTH in points per drive and a downright unacceptable FIRST in turnovers per offensive drive?

I mean come on, he has the best O-Line in the league to work with and arguably the league's best group of 4 centers to help make protection adjustments at the LoS to account for what the defense is doing (not that we played any good defenses this year, come on). He really needs to turn this top 10 offense into a top 1 offense. Anything less just isn't acceptable.

:th2thumbs:

 

[DavidSeven]

If he is such a bad play caller, how did he call the most number of total explosive plays (runs 12+ and 16+ passes) for two years straight? Is every other great play caller not trying to do that?

I do agree that his greatest asset is probably in game planning, preparation and use of personnel - some thing that is very difficult for the casual fan to appreciate.

I for one will always appreciate how he gradually worked Russell into the offense, rather than overwhelming him; opening the playbook gradually.

Ummm he has a hugely talented QB that gets out of trouble and makes plays by extending them.
Most of the Hawks big plays are thru Wilson's improvisation or Lynch's talent to break tackles not Bevell's "genius".......... Sorry.

There are hugely talented QBs all over this league who are being mishandled by their coaches and rapidly regressing. Bevell/Carroll/Cable allow Wilson to play to his strengths and scheme around his ability to move around the pocket and his ability to run. When Russell rips off a 50+ yard run through acres of open green, it is not just an accident. When Russell dances around the pocket and has receivers breaking open on scramble drills, that is not just an accident either. That is part player, and part a scheme that recognizes good things can happen if you give the player certain options.

How much more explosive should we expect this offense to be with its lack of explosiveness at receiver and tight end? Like seriously, the numbers have been laid out several times in this thread. By every metric, we have a top-10 offense with late-round/no-round talent at WR/TE and an OL that everyone here seems to hate equally as much as the OC. Show me how this offense has performed below its talent level.

 

[TDOTSEAHAWK]

If he is such a bad play caller, how did he call the most number of total explosive plays (runs 12+ and 16+ passes) for two years straight? Is every other great play caller not trying to do that?

I do agree that his greatest asset is probably in game planning, preparation and use of personnel - some thing that is very difficult for the casual fan to appreciate.

I for one will always appreciate how he gradually worked Russell into the offense, rather than overwhelming him; opening the playbook gradually.

Ummm he has a hugely talented QB that gets out of trouble and makes plays by extending them.
Most of the Hawks big plays are thru Wilson's improvisation or Lynch's talent to break tackles not Bevell's "genius".......... Sorry.

So to be a good playcaller - the RB can't be touched for 12 yards (otherwise it's just the RB being good) and the QB has to throw to his first read without ever creating more time by stepping into the pocket or scrambling around (otherwise it's just the QB). I am not sure what league you usually watch - but it certainly isn't the NFL.

Seattle has the 6th best yards per play. We are the sixth best gaining yards on a per play basis, surely the OC calls a high proportion of good play calls.

 

[pehawk]

Any of you Bevell supporters want to explain to me his lack of blitz beaters during his entire tenure? And the thought process behind routinely going hurry up, empty set in SD and Dallas, immediately after the defense was just gutted for an extended amount of time? I'm willing to hear the new ideas.

Stats and rankings mean nothing to me. Andy Dalton had comparable stats to Peyton Manning during similar periods. You think that tells the whole story?

People doubting Cables importance should use Google. Start by zeroing in on their title differences and reason behind those differences.

 

[OkieHawk]

Any of you Bevell supporters want to explain to me his lack of blitz beaters during his entire tenure? And the thought process behind routinely going hurry up, empty set in SD and Dallas, immediately after the defense was just gutted for an extended amount of time? I'm willing to hear the new ideas.

Stats and rankings mean nothing to me. Andy Dalton had comparable stats to Peyton Manning during similar periods. You think that tells the whole story?

People doubting Cables importance should use Google. Start by zeroing in on their title differences and reason behind those differences.

Alright, what if he, for whatever reason, just doesn't do anything but vanilla the first half of the season knowing that we have the weapons to still make it work. For the last couple of years that is exactly what has happened, I'm just not sure if it's by design, or coincidence. He saves the good stuff for later knowing that teams can't scheme for them as they haven't seen the stuff yet.

This has been brought up before, and it does make sense in a weird way. If it were only for one season it would be a fluke, but ever since RW has been QB that has been the type of play calling we get. It does get a bit old though, not gonna lie.

 

[lukerguy]

First of all the metaphor for untie your shoes (bending over) is completely perverse and immature. I know people use if commonly, but it's really quite disturbing at a root level.

Second of all, I think what Baldwin was referencing is his play design and concepts. What people have a problem with (myself included) is his play selection at a given time. Sometimes we'll be playing a poor run D and he'll get Lynch the ball 12 times.. or 3rd and 2 and he'll go empty set- no threat of the run.. It just doesn't make sense.

Sure, the players make a coordinator look bad and vice versa, but I just question play calling at important times in the game.

 

[TDOTSEAHAWK]

Any of you Bevell supporters want to explain to me his lack of blitz beaters during his entire tenure? And the thought process behind routinely going hurry up, empty set in SD and Dallas, immediately after the defense was just gutted for an extended amount of time? I'm willing to hear the new ideas.

Stats and rankings mean nothing to me. Andy Dalton had comparable stats to Peyton Manning during similar periods. You think that tells the whole story?

People doubting Cables importance should use Google. Start by zeroing in on their title differences and reason behind those differences.

You are simply wrong. Last season, against the blitz, Russell Wilson was the best QB in football according to PFF grading out twice as good as any other QB. This included being second best against the blitz when there is no pressure and best when the blitz created pressure. In other words, it wasn't just Russell's ability to scramble away that helped him beat the blitz - they had clear blitz beaters.

"Russell Wilson was the league’s best against the blitz at +21.5 and he did it with one of the highest times to throw at 3.05 seconds. He faced the second highest percentage of blitzes at 39.2 percent."

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... the-blitz/

The final report for this season isn't out yet but I bet it is close. They clearly had a plan against the blitz last season.

This just goes to show the amount of misinformation and bias about our offense there is.Also goes to show you that focusing on one or two games doesn't tell you the whole story.

Though I will definitely agree with you in saying that Cable has a major influence in this offense and the success of the run game.

 

[pehawk]

Any of you Bevell supporters want to explain to me his lack of blitz beaters during his entire tenure? And the thought process behind routinely going hurry up, empty set in SD and Dallas, immediately after the defense was just gutted for an extended amount of time? I'm willing to hear the new ideas.

Stats and rankings mean nothing to me. Andy Dalton had comparable stats to Peyton Manning during similar periods. You think that tells the whole story?

People doubting Cables importance should use Google. Start by zeroing in on their title differences and reason behind those differences.

Alright, what if he, for whatever reason, just doesn't do anything but vanilla the first half of the season knowing that we have the weapons to still make it work. For the last couple of years that is exactly what has happened, I'm just not sure if it's by design, or coincidence. He saves the good stuff for later knowing that teams can't scheme for them as they haven't seen the stuff yet.

This has been brought up before, and it does make sense in a weird way. If it were only for one season it would be a fluke, but ever since RW has been QB that has been the type of play calling we get. It does get a bit old though, not gonna lie.

I'm actually a believer that this regime saves plays for the marathon, totally. But, C'mon, this noise that we shouldn't criticize a dude that literally has deep outs called, against a 6 man blitz, with only 5 blocking, routinely, is ludicrous.

Luker brought up a great point too. Dude went hurry up, empty set, after his defense had been on field in 120 degree heat for 15 plays. No one would've said shit if he went 3 and out with all dive plays, give your defense a breather. C'mon.

 

[pehawk]

Any of you Bevell supporters want to explain to me his lack of blitz beaters during his entire tenure? And the thought process behind routinely going hurry up, empty set in SD and Dallas, immediately after the defense was just gutted for an extended amount of time? I'm willing to hear the new ideas.

Stats and rankings mean nothing to me. Andy Dalton had comparable stats to Peyton Manning during similar periods. You think that tells the whole story?

People doubting Cables importance should use Google. Start by zeroing in on their title differences and reason behind those differences.

You are simply wrong. Last season, against the blitz, Russell Wilson was the best QB in football according to PFF grading out twice as good as any other QB. This included being second best against the blitz when there is no pressure and best when the blitz created pressure. In other words, it wasn't just Russell's ability to scramble away that helped him beat the blitz - they had clear blitz beaters.

"Russell Wilson was the league’s best against the blitz at +21.5 and he did it with one of the highest times to throw at 3.05 seconds. He faced the second highest percentage of blitzes at 39.2 percent."

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... the-blitz/

The final report for this season isn't out yet but I bet it is close. They clearly had a plan against the blitz last season.

This just goes to show the amount of misinformation and bias about our offense there is.Also goes to show you that focusing on one or two games doesn't tell you the whole story.

Though I will definitely agree with you in saying that Cable has a major influence in this offense and the success of the run game.

Theres no blitz beaters in this offense. None. This stat has nothing to do with our argument. It has all to do with a QB who's elite on the move.

Literally has zero to do with it. If their were blitz beaters they wouldn't be high YPA, by default.

 

[Sports Hernia]

If he is such a bad play caller, how did he call the most number of total explosive plays (runs 12+ and 16+ passes) for two years straight? Is every other great play caller not trying to do that?

I do agree that his greatest asset is probably in game planning, preparation and use of personnel - some thing that is very difficult for the casual fan to appreciate.

I for one will always appreciate how he gradually worked Russell into the offense, rather than overwhelming him; opening the playbook gradually.

Ummm he has a hugely talented QB that gets out of trouble and makes plays by extending them.
Most of the Hawks big plays are thru Wilson's improvisation or Lynch's talent to break tackles not Bevell's "genius".......... Sorry.

So to be a good playcaller - the RB can't be touched for 12 yards (otherwise it's just the RB being good) and the QB has to throw to his first read without ever creating more time by stepping into the pocket or scrambling around (otherwise it's just the QB). I am not sure what league you usually watch - but it certainly isn't the NFL.

Seattle has the 6th best yards per play. We are the sixth best gaining yards on a per play basis, surely the OC calls a high proportion of good play calls.

You clearly missed the point.

I swear the Bevell apologists would heap praise upon the guy if he called a failed bubble screen play every play and lost 3 yards everytime on said play. He's the Teflon OC in somes eyes.

He's your turd though, if you insist on polishing said turd, more power to you I guess.

 

[TDOTSEAHAWK]

If anything, our passing offense is closer to average (but still above average) when the opposition drops 7 and gets no pressure. Whereas the best passing offenses feast in this instance, we certainly are not elite in this situation.

I would argue this is a combination of WR/TE personnel, a massove focus on not turning the ball over and thus not forcing the ball in to risky situations unnecessarily, a focus on big plays as well as some element of play design. It is probably this last aspect that rubs people the wrong way.

 

[DavidSeven]

Nearly all of our biggest plays this season have come out of 5-man protections, often against 6 rushers. Like seriously, basically every non-RB play that has gone for 40+ yards this year has come out of that exact scenario.

 

[TDOTSEAHAWK]

Theres no blitz beaters in this offense. None. This stat has nothing to do with our argument. It has all to do with a QB who's elite on the move.

Literally has zero to do with it. If their were blitz beaters they wouldn't be high YPA, by default.

Wait, what? What if the YAC is high on a blitz beater? A low YPA really means a bunch of incompletions. Against the blitz Russ completed 73.4% of his passes and had a play success rate of 41.1% - both among the top in the league. What about the long play to Luke Willson with Arizona for 80 yards? That was a blitz beater.

http://www.seahawks.com/videos-photos/v ... b7bcc9672a

Did you conveniently forget it? Did Russ have to scramble for 20 seconds to make this play? Seems like a well oiled machine to me.

 

[Cartire]

Any of you Bevell supporters want to explain to me his lack of blitz beaters during his entire tenure? And the thought process behind routinely going hurry up, empty set in SD and Dallas, immediately after the defense was just gutted for an extended amount of time? I'm willing to hear the new ideas.

Stats and rankings mean nothing to me. Andy Dalton had comparable stats to Peyton Manning during similar periods. You think that tells the whole story?

People doubting Cables importance should use Google. Start by zeroing in on their title differences and reason behind those differences.

You are simply wrong. Last season, against the blitz, Russell Wilson was the best QB in football according to PFF grading out twice as good as any other QB. This included being second best against the blitz when there is no pressure and best when the blitz created pressure. In other words, it wasn't just Russell's ability to scramble away that helped him beat the blitz - they had clear blitz beaters.

"Russell Wilson was the league’s best against the blitz at +21.5 and he did it with one of the highest times to throw at 3.05 seconds. He faced the second highest percentage of blitzes at 39.2 percent."

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... the-blitz/

The final report for this season isn't out yet but I bet it is close. They clearly had a plan against the blitz last season.

This just goes to show the amount of misinformation and bias about our offense there is.Also goes to show you that focusing on one or two games doesn't tell you the whole story.

Though I will definitely agree with you in saying that Cable has a major influence in this offense and the success of the run game.

Theres no blitz beaters in this offense. None. This stat has nothing to do with our argument. It has all to do with a QB who's elite on the move.

Literally has zero to do with it. If their were blitz beaters they wouldn't be high YPA, by default.

Just stop.

It's RW's job to audible out of a play when he sees a blitz. Not Bevels. We have slant routes and screen plays. I don't know exactly what you are referring to when you say we don't have any blitz beaters. That's just silly. Makes no sense. We have plenty of them. It's Russells job to audible to one of them and the teams job to execute properly.

You've got Baldwin praising him. The numbers saying were a top 10 offense. Were #1 an explosive plays. There's numbers showing that were the best against the blitz. And yet you stubbornly just say no.

Time for you to start posting the evidence and not just your "take" on things. And youre gonna need more then just a few picked plays here and there. Let's see the trend. Let's see the facts you have.

Are you trying to post like Tokadub to honor him or something?

 

[TDOTSEAHAWK]

If he is such a bad play caller, how did he call the most number of total explosive plays (runs 12+ and 16+ passes) for two years straight? Is every other great play caller not trying to do that?

I do agree that his greatest asset is probably in game planning, preparation and use of personnel - some thing that is very difficult for the casual fan to appreciate.

I for one will always appreciate how he gradually worked Russell into the offense, rather than overwhelming him; opening the playbook gradually.

Ummm he has a hugely talented QB that gets out of trouble and makes plays by extending them.
Most of the Hawks big plays are thru Wilson's improvisation or Lynch's talent to break tackles not Bevell's "genius".......... Sorry.

So to be a good playcaller - the RB can't be touched for 12 yards (otherwise it's just the RB being good) and the QB has to throw to his first read without ever creating more time by stepping into the pocket or scrambling around (otherwise it's just the QB). I am not sure what league you usually watch - but it certainly isn't the NFL.

Seattle has the 6th best yards per play. We are the sixth best gaining yards on a per play basis, surely the OC calls a high proportion of good play calls.

You clearly missed the point.

I swear the Bevell apologists would heap praise upon the guy if he called a failed bubble screen play every play and lost 3 yards everytime on said play. He's the Teflon OC in somes eyes.

He's your turd though, if you insist on polishing said turd, more power to you I guess.

You actually forgot to make a point. You conjectured something that was relatively absurd and backed it up with no stats.

 

[KARAVARUS]

I don't understand why you have to be either for or against with no wavering to one side or the other on Bev. I've watched games where I have been incredibly frustrated with the play calling. But doesn't execution have to factor in as well? He's not perfect, but why mess with something that is working? We win most games.

One thing I'm not seeing mentioned here is the player relationship. The guys seem to want to play for him and they believe in him. What would it do to switch that up at this time for any other reason than Bev finding a job somewhere else? It's not broken, gents--it's a work in progress. And it works.

And I'm sorry, but I don't give two shits about Marshawn flipping him off mid game. That means nothing. That means he isn't a mature person in that situation and really says nothing about what he thinks of Bev overall. Just the emotions of the beast.

Bev ain't the best, but we're about to win our second consecutive Super Bowl. Why in the holy name of Zeus are we even having this discussion?

 

[Cartire]

If he is such a bad play caller, how did he call the most number of total explosive plays (runs 12+ and 16+ passes) for two years straight? Is every other great play caller not trying to do that?

I do agree that his greatest asset is probably in game planning, preparation and use of personnel - some thing that is very difficult for the casual fan to appreciate.

I for one will always appreciate how he gradually worked Russell into the offense, rather than overwhelming him; opening the playbook gradually.

Ummm he has a hugely talented QB that gets out of trouble and makes plays by extending them.
Most of the Hawks big plays are thru Wilson's improvisation or Lynch's talent to break tackles not Bevell's "genius".......... Sorry.

So to be a good playcaller - the RB can't be touched for 12 yards (otherwise it's just the RB being good) and the QB has to throw to his first read without ever creating more time by stepping into the pocket or scrambling around (otherwise it's just the QB). I am not sure what league you usually watch - but it certainly isn't the NFL.

Seattle has the 6th best yards per play. We are the sixth best gaining yards on a per play basis, surely the OC calls a high proportion of good play calls.

You clearly missed the point.

I swear the Bevell apologists would heap praise upon the guy if he called a failed bubble screen play every play and lost 3 yards everytime on said play. He's the Teflon OC in somes eyes.

He's your turd though, if you insist on polishing said turd, more power to you I guess.

Is that your argument. A made up hyperbolic statement of what if? No. No one would excuse Bevels for running nothing but failed bubble screens. But that doesn't happen. Because Bevels doesn't call nothing but bubble screens.
Cool fact: the last three bubbles screens have gone for 5+ yards.
There is nothing to apologize for BTW. He's been pretty good.
But it's pretty crazy what you guys go through to bash a guy.

The whole argument is stupid anyway. Plays break down for so many reasons that it's inconceivable to know who is to blame or even if they should be blamed on each play. The other team has world class athletes as well. And occasionally, they are going to win their battles sometimes rather you like it or not. And play calling is not always going to stifle that. You can only hope that you win more battles then your counterpart at the end of a game.

 

[pehawk]

Theres no blitz beaters in this offense. None. This stat has nothing to do with our argument. It has all to do with a QB who's elite on the move.

Literally has zero to do with it. If their were blitz beaters they wouldn't be high YPA, by default.

Wait, what? What if the YAC is high on a blitz beater? A low YPA really means a bunch of incompletions. Against the blitz Russ completed 73.4% of his passes and had a play success rate of 41.1% - both among the top in the league. What about the long play to Luke Willson with Arizona for 80 yards? That was a blitz beater.

http://www.seahawks.com/videos-photos/v ... b7bcc9672a

Did you conveniently forget it? Did Russ have to scramble for 20 seconds to make this play? Seems like a well oiled machine to me.

Not sure if you read page one, but, I actually said my main criticisms of Bevell will stop if the blitzbeaters are here to stay. The fact we ran them in Arizona floored me and I made a post out of shock and crow.

Like I said, if the blitzbeaters are here to stay, then all just see the occasional boneheaded game I guess.