Bobby Wagner

[pmedic920]

Bobby is still elite that's why we need to trade him before the inevitable drop off.

i think next season we are going to do a makeover on defense. There will be no Bobby & KJ. Griffin will probably not be signed either. Diggs & Dumbar will probably be gone too. Hopefully a new DC.

Are you trolling the board, or do you actually believe this?


If in fact you believe what you’re saying, could you elaborate?
Maybe even make a separate thread with your thoughts.

Probably be a great conversation.

 

[Polk738]

Bobby is still elite that's why we need to trade him before the inevitable drop off.

i think next season we are going to do a makeover on defense. There will be no Bobby & KJ. Griffin will probably not be signed either. Diggs & Dumbar will probably be gone too. Hopefully a new DC.

Are you trolling the board, or do you actually believe this?


If in fact you believe what you’re saying, could you elaborate?
Maybe even make a separate thread with your thoughts.

Probably be a great conversation.

Getting rid of Diggs would be an even stupider decision than getting rid of Bobby, you'd rather go back to the dumpster duo of Tedric Thompson and Lame-o Hill?

KJ may be having his best season as a Seahawk that I can remember, the trio of him Bobby and Brooks is a serious force around the LOS.

I wouldn't be sad about losing Griffin unless he suddenly changes his technique instead of tackling the receiver before the ball arrives

 

[pittpnthrs]

Bobby is still elite that's why we need to trade him before the inevitable drop off.

Sounds like a Belichick move. Its probably the logical thing to do.

 

[IndyHawk]

I remember the poster who went off on me for saying that he is
past his prime..The truth hurts but it happens to the best and as
Aros said "Father time remains undefeated".

Saying he has "lost a step" is a lot more than saying he is "past his prime." Maybe past his peak, but I'm not convinced of that either. Many players play a long time and their game smarts and experience often make up for that lost step for many years. Peak physical capability probably passes in the mid twenties for most of us. Peak playing capability is often a bit later than that.

Agreed. IN his prime...still one of the best in the game. His head will keep him a "great" linebacker for a long time...longer than most.

Even though he may have lost a step...he's still faster than most linebackers (MLB's) in the league. But he's just so good at being in the right place to make a play.

I hate to even talk about our linebackers in coverage, as much as we trot out that soft zone crap. It's not a fair assessment of his skills.

I'm sorry but I don't understand how you lose speed and can't cover like
you once did but your still in your prime?
A prime BWags to me is the guy that jumped over the line to block that FG.
I know he isn't that guy now..He's still good of course but too many seem to
think past prime means washed up..It doesn't and I don't ever want to see a
Hawk get to that point.
I think we need a thread to understand what prime means because it's not a
long time thing,at least not in my mind.

 

[rcaido]

Bobby is still elite that's why we need to trade him before the inevitable drop off.

i think next season we are going to do a makeover on defense. There will be no Bobby & KJ. Griffin will probably not be signed either. Diggs & Dumbar will probably be gone too. Hopefully a new DC.

Are you trolling the board, or do you actually believe this?


If in fact you believe what you’re saying, could you elaborate?
Maybe even make a separate thread with your thoughts.

Probably be a great conversation.

Not trolling.

My mistake on Diggs, i thought he was a free agent after this season, he has one more year, so definitely keep him. I only added because i dont think we would be able to afford him.

The reason for the change is because of the salary cap, not because i dont want them playing for the Seahawks.

Defense
KJ - UFA (10 million)
Dunbar - UFA(3.4 million)
Griffin Last year - UFA (2.1million)
Poona Ford - RFA - (700,000)
Mayoa - UFA (3 million)
Irvin - UFA (5.5 million)

Offense
Carson - UFA(600,000)
Hollister - UFA(3.5 million)
Lupati -UFA (2.5 million)
Pocic =UFA(1.1 million)
Hyde - UFA(2.75 million)
Olsen - UFA(7million)
Moore- UFA(700,00)

With all these guys gone, we will only have 18million in cap space. Who knows if it drops even more 2021 season. So that's 13 starters we have to come up with 18 million.

Carson alone will want at least 13million. Can we afford KJ, Dunbar, & Griffin? You trade up Bobby, you have an instant 18million plus draft picks to fill in these missing players. You dont have to worry about 21million the following year too. Remember you still have to pay Wilson 37million, Adams would need to be paid, & Locket will UFA. Just makes sense to trade Bobby next season salary reasons before it gets really bad.

With the draft picks, we would have to go heavy on the O-line, Cornerback, & Linebackers.

 

[misfit]

Bobby is still elite that's why we need to trade him before the inevitable drop off.

i think next season we are going to do a makeover on defense. There will be no Bobby & KJ. Griffin will probably not be signed either. Diggs & Dumbar will probably be gone too. Hopefully a new DC.

Are you trolling the board, or do you actually believe this?


If in fact you believe what you’re saying, could you elaborate?
Maybe even make a separate thread with your thoughts.

Probably be a great conversation.

Not trolling.

My mistake on Diggs, i thought he was a free agent after this season, he has one more year, so definitely keep him. I only added because i dont think we would be able to afford him.

The reason for the change is because of the salary cap, not because i dont want them playing for the Seahawks.

Defense
KJ - UFA (10 million)
Dunbar - UFA(3.4 million)
Griffin Last year - UFA (2.1million)
Poona Ford - RFA - (700,000)
Mayoa - UFA (3 million)
Irvin - UFA (5.5 million)

Offense
Carson - UFA(600,000)
Hollister - UFA(3.5 million)
Lupati -UFA (2.5 million)
Pocic =UFA(1.1 million)
Hyde - UFA(2.75 million)
Olsen - UFA(7million)
Moore- UFA(700,00)

With all these guys gone, we will only have 18million in cap space. Who knows if it drops even more 2021 season. So that's 13 starters we have to come up with 18 million.

Carson alone will want at least 13million. Can we afford KJ, Dunbar, & Griffin? You trade up Bobby, you have an instant 18million plus draft picks to fill in these missing players. You dont have to worry about 21million the following year too. Remember you still have to pay Wilson 37million, Adams would need to be paid, & Locket will UFA. Just makes sense to trade Bobby next season salary reasons before it gets really bad.

With the draft picks, we would have to go heavy on the O-line, Cornerback, & Linebackers.

All they gotta do is cut dunlap and that frees up 14 mill

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

Kind of saw the shadows of decline in 2019 honestly.

Wagner is still playing at an elite level. Not his standard of elite. But he's clearly not just fallen off a cliff either. I mean you really have to look kind of hard to find instances where this is the case. And when you catch a whiff of this, he will make 3-4 plays that make you smile and remember just how great a player he still is.

It had to be anticipated. The Brooks pick truly confirmed this line of thinking in the organization's mind as well. Wagner's contract is similarly structured in a way that one could not imagine it being a truly 4 year deal, but instead a 2 year deal with club opt out. I even mentioned at the time it was signed that it was in essence a 2 year deal.

He is still the best MLB in the league. Although Devin White has probably closed that gap. Brooks should be capable of sliding right into that role and making his own name known. Even now, his speed advantage compared to Wagners is strikingly evident. But so is his (understandable) lack of recognition, anticipation and savvy. I think we're set up for many years of excellence from that position.

Wagner is almost assuredly going to be cut after the season (before his base salary is guaranteed on Feb 12). It won't be an indictment on his ability. It's going to be purely cap related. With 18 players needing to be signed or drafted to fill out the roster, we can't afford to spend nearly 10% of our cap space at that position.

No team is going to trade for Wagner. Firstly, because of the deal structure, we have to cut him before the new league season starts. But secondly, the trade market should be positively frigid in 2021. With about two thirds of teams needing to shed salary just to get square -- there will be no incentive for teams to make deals as the UFA market is going to be exceptionally rich. The best UFA market ever with plenty of pro bowlers with significant football left in them. At what will undoubtedly be bargain basement prices. In a market where just a handful of buyers will effectively corner.

One thing to watch for, is teams cutting players, only to resign them for less. You may see this come about late in the UFA signing process. There just won't be a lot of teams capable of moving on players. And the available cap space on buying teams is going to evaporate rather quickly. I kind of expect something like this happening with Carlos Dunlap. Team agrees to keep him beyond March 21 for the 3M roster guaranteed money. Then cut him in May-ish and resign him for less on the 10M balance. He keeps his guaranteed money (and likely more than he would have received in this market), while club recovers a good 5-6M chunk of change.

 

[Jerhawk]

Bobby is still elite that's why we need to trade him before the inevitable drop off.

i think next season we are going to do a makeover on defense. There will be no Bobby & KJ. Griffin will probably not be signed either. Diggs & Dumbar will probably be gone too. Hopefully a new DC.

It's funny that you go out of your way to call me a garbage poster after I sarcastically suggested we bench Wilson after his interception vs the Jets, but then you turn around and post this.

No team is going to want Wagner's contract. And even if we do trade him, it's not like we're getting anything over a 4th rounder. Let him play out his deal, then let him walk or retire. Trading him would prove no benefit from a locker room perspective. He's the leader of the defense. Let Brooks play along side him and pass the torch.

 

[Hawker20]

Honestly my take on Bobby is he's gained weight. He just seems a lot thicker than he used to be and is more of a thumper now than is a speed linebacker. I know he's probably bulked up to avoid injury but I think he could slim down a bit, this would help with his speed.

 

[Bigpumpkin]

Honestly my take on Bobby is he's gained weight. He just seems a lot thicker than he used to be and is more of a thumper now than is a speed linebacker. I know he's probably bulked up to avoid injury but I think he could slim down a bit, this would help with his speed.

This goes for Russ as well.

 

[RockinHawks]

I remember the poster who went off on me for saying that he is
past his prime..The truth hurts but it happens to the best and as
Aros said "Father time remains undefeated".

Saying he has "lost a step" is a lot more than saying he is "past his prime." Maybe past his peak, but I'm not convinced of that either. Many players play a long time and their game smarts and experience often make up for that lost step for many years. Peak physical capability probably passes in the mid twenties for most of us. Peak playing capability is often a bit later than that.

Agreed. IN his prime...still one of the best in the game. His head will keep him a "great" linebacker for a long time...longer than most.

Even though he may have lost a step...he's still faster than most linebackers (MLB's) in the league. But he's just so good at being in the right place to make a play.

I hate to even talk about our linebackers in coverage, as much as we trot out that soft zone crap. It's not a fair assessment of his skills.

I'm sorry but I don't understand how you lose speed and can't cover like
you once did but your still in your prime?
A prime BWags to me is the guy that jumped over the line to block that FG.
I know he isn't that guy now..He's still good of course but too many seem to
think past prime means washed up..It doesn't and I don't ever want to see a
Hawk get to that point.
I think we need a thread to understand what prime means because it's not a
long time thing,at least not in my mind.

Because he still has the best instncts and head for the game. He still is routinely at the top of the league in tackles, team leader, backs it up on the field. Speed is such an overvalued metric when it comes to some positions. Yes, he's still in his prime. He's not old.

And to those who only think in Madden terms (trades, etc.), no you don't trade Wagner. As a fan, you hope they play as long as they can, at a high level and then retire a lifelong Seahawk. Ring of Honor, Hall of Fame, etc...no sharing with other teams. Jesus, imagine if Bears fans were like "hope we trade Singletary before he gets slower, so we can snag a 3rd round draft pick." Yes we have Brooks...but hell, having a great LB corps with BOTH on the field is pretty sweet, IMHO.

 

[BubbaGump]

Saying he has "lost a step" is a lot more than saying he is "past his prime." Maybe past his peak, but I'm not convinced of that either. Many players play a long time and their game smarts and experience often make up for that lost step for many years. Peak physical capability probably passes in the mid twenties for most of us. Peak playing capability is often a bit later than that.

Agreed. IN his prime...still one of the best in the game. His head will keep him a "great" linebacker for a long time...longer than most.

Even though he may have lost a step...he's still faster than most linebackers (MLB's) in the league. But he's just so good at being in the right place to make a play.

I hate to even talk about our linebackers in coverage, as much as we trot out that soft zone crap. It's not a fair assessment of his skills.

I'm sorry but I don't understand how you lose speed and can't cover like
you once did but your still in your prime?
A prime BWags to me is the guy that jumped over the line to block that FG.
I know he isn't that guy now..He's still good of course but too many seem to
think past prime means washed up..It doesn't and I don't ever want to see a
Hawk get to that point.
I think we need a thread to understand what prime means because it's not a
long time thing,at least not in my mind.

Because he still has the best instncts and head for the game. He still is routinely at the top of the league in tackles, team leader, backs it up on the field. Speed is such an overvalued metric when it comes to some positions. Yes, he's still in his prime. He's not old.

And to those who only think in Madden terms (trades, etc.), no you don't trade Wagner. As a fan, you hope they play as long as they can, at a high level and then retire a lifelong Seahawk. Ring of Honor, Hall of Fame, etc...no sharing with other teams. Jesus, imagine if Bears fans were like "hope we trade Singletary before he gets slower, so we can snag a 3rd round draft pick." Yes we have Brooks...but hell, having a great LB corps with BOTH on the field is pretty sweet, IMHO.

I think some posters are talking about trading Bobby due to his salary the next couple of seasons. I would not be surprised if he did get traded this offseason. BTW I’m a huge Bwags fan and am not advocating in any way for him to be traded. Hope he remains a Hawk for life and retires here.

 

[rcaido]

Saying he has "lost a step" is a lot more than saying he is "past his prime." Maybe past his peak, but I'm not convinced of that either. Many players play a long time and their game smarts and experience often make up for that lost step for many years. Peak physical capability probably passes in the mid twenties for most of us. Peak playing capability is often a bit later than that.

Agreed. IN his prime...still one of the best in the game. His head will keep him a "great" linebacker for a long time...longer than most.

Even though he may have lost a step...he's still faster than most linebackers (MLB's) in the league. But he's just so good at being in the right place to make a play.

I hate to even talk about our linebackers in coverage, as much as we trot out that soft zone crap. It's not a fair assessment of his skills.

I'm sorry but I don't understand how you lose speed and can't cover like
you once did but your still in your prime?
A prime BWags to me is the guy that jumped over the line to block that FG.
I know he isn't that guy now..He's still good of course but too many seem to
think past prime means washed up..It doesn't and I don't ever want to see a
Hawk get to that point.
I think we need a thread to understand what prime means because it's not a
long time thing,at least not in my mind.

Because he still has the best instncts and head for the game. He still is routinely at the top of the league in tackles, team leader, backs it up on the field. Speed is such an overvalued metric when it comes to some positions. Yes, he's still in his prime. He's not old.

And to those who only think in Madden terms (trades, etc.), no you don't trade Wagner. As a fan, you hope they play as long as they can, at a high level and then retire a lifelong Seahawk. Ring of Honor, Hall of Fame, etc...no sharing with other teams. Jesus, imagine if Bears fans were like "hope we trade Singletary before he gets slower, so we can snag a 3rd round draft pick." Yes we have Brooks...but hell, having a great LB corps with BOTH on the field is pretty sweet, IMHO.

There were no salary cap back then. Having to pay Singletary, Dent, Duerson, The Ref, & Mcmichael...Then you still have to pay the offense, one of the all time best Walter Payton. McMahon & Hilgenberg. Then the rest of the roster. They wouldn't be able to keep half these guys. This is one of the reason why we never resign Sherman & Thomas. This is the reason wny we cant put more talented players to protect Wilson. Its not about Madden trade, its about trying to fund a competitive team w/ Wilson w/ salary cap. Pete & John has been pretty much the best in doing that.

 

[scutterhawk]

Blinding speed is most useful in making up for errors up front. Smart players make fewer errors in their assignments and thus don't need the blinding speed.

:229031_shrug:

This ^ He more than makes up for that "Lost Step" with the experience he's gained, and besides, it's not like he started off being a 'Run Of The Mill' LB coming out of the gate. :irishdrinkers:

 

[edogg23]

Any one notice Bobby standing behind the 1st down marker and letting the receiver get an extra 4 yards to get a first on 3rd down at the end of the first half? It cost the Seahawks 3 points.

I don’t see how the Seahawks can keep paying him 18 million or whatever next year. He needs to take a pay cut or get cut.

 

[balakoth]

Yeah thats what he did... its called defensive scheme.. holy balls

 

[hawkfan68]

The LB corps have been disappointing in the passing game. These guys are supposed to be the strength of the defense but have been atrocious in defending the pass. When Haskins throws for almost 300 yds and 85% is to a running back and TE, it’s the LBs that are the problem.

 

[edogg23]

Yeah thats what he did... its called defensive scheme.. holy balls

It was after catch... made no attempt to tackle in front of the chains. Just stood back like the yards made no difference.

 

[rcaido]

yeahi notice that too...Its like its 3rd down, you cant let them get the first. Bobby seem like he gave up 2 or 3 of those plays. It was really strange, he usually makes those.

If anything, it almost seem like KJ is worth keeping instead of Bobby. I guess we will see what happens after the year.

 

[PNW]

yeahi notice that too...Its like its 3rd down, you cant let them get the first. Bobby seem like he gave up 2 or 3 of those plays. It was really strange, he usually makes those.

If anything, it almost seem like KJ is worth keeping instead of Bobby. I guess we will see what happens after the year.

Agreed, KJ jumps out more than BWags now days, making almost half as much money. I would rather roll with KJ than #54 at this point due to our cap restraints. I would love if he would restructure his deal to something more reasonable. In the famous words of BWags in his own tweet “can’t keep everyone”