Brandt: Most vulnerable 2015 division winners

[Popeyejones]

I don't think Popeye even knows what the hell he is arguing. That, or he doesn't understand that there are actually circumstances and reasons why a QB would have a bad game. He sees things as excuses while we see the same things as explanations. He's just being difficult.

The problem is that you've wandered into the thread without reading back into the context of the discussion.

I'll help out:

1) Kearly argued that the Vikings are the team most likely to not win their division again.

1) WilsonMVP replied that the Vikings are not to be underlooked for next year, with one point of evidence offered being that were it not for a missed chip shot they would have beaten the Seahawks last year.

2) Kearly responded that the Seahawks/Vikings game isn't indicative of anything because it was too cold out.

3) WilsonMVP pointed out that Wilson didn't play much better than Bridgewater, suggesting that if they were both affected by the same conditions, the better team still should have played better.

4) Kearly responded that Wilson's game shouldn't count because it was too cold out.

5) I responded that I disagree with this, pointing out that a much inferior QB had a much superior day in similarly cold conditions a couple years ago (i.e. when talking QB play we can't just throw out games because they're cold as Kearly suggests). Instead, I argued, Wilson is a very good QB who didn't have a good day, and is too good of a QB to need silly excuses to throw out the games in which he doesn't play well.

6) Because you didn't bother to read the whole discussion, you traipsed in saying that I don't know what I'm arguing and am just being difficult .

Now that you know what the conversation is, perhaps you can meaningfully contribute to it. :th2thumbs:

 

[Sterling Archer]

You are still removing the context of that game which is absurd. Kap playing better than Wilson against a bottom 10 defense when Wilson was against a top 5 defense has absolutely no correlation.

You would be better off comparing Bridgewater and Wilson that day since they both faced stiff defenses (and cold weather), but both played poorly so it doesn't support your argument.

 

[Popeyejones]

You are still removing the context of that game which is absurd. Kap playing better than Wilson against a bottom 10 defense when Wilson was against a top 5 defense has absolutely no correlation.

Or we could also add in the context that in addition to Wilson playing a better defense he is also a much, much, better quarterback, and as a top QB he reasonably should at least play as well as a much inferior (now backup) QB even if playing a good defense in similar conditions.

You don't want to add in that context though because it doesn't serve your purposes. Instead, you like the inclusion of context that serves your purposes and dislike the inclusion of context that doesn't.

In any case, all that aside, we're talking past each other.

I evoked Kaepernick to make a specific comparison about a specific claim: Wilson's bad game doesn't count because it was really cold out.

If you want to add more context for Wilson's bad game have at it, but unless you disagree with that statement we're just talking past each other. :th2thumbs:

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Cards look tough man, they had a great draft, especially on D. So IMO it's gonna be a dog fight all the way til the end.

I thought their draft sucked. They killed it in FA though, just like they usually do.

Hmm, most of the draft grades I saw had the Cards as a A or B.....................and Nkemdiche is probably the steal of the draft, dude's a beast.

 

[Sterling Archer]

In any case, all that aside, we're talking past each other.

I agree at this point the conversation is moot. Wilson is a really good QB and that playoff game is over and no longer matters.

 

[Popeyejones]

^^^ absolutely agreed on both of those points too.

 

[Hasselbeck]

Was going to make a list and realized 6 out of the 8 division winners from a year ago are going to have a real challenge of repeating.. I think New England and Carolina are the easiest bets to repeat.. the other 6, wow.. complete toss ups.

I think Seattle overtakes Arizona
I think Green Bay overtakes Minnesota
I think Pittsburgh overtakes Cincy
I think KC overtakes Denver
I think Dallas overtakes Washington
I think Indy could overtake Houston.. but this division is the biggest toss up next year IMO. Jacksonville could also surprise or Houston could just go crazy if Osweiler actually grows into the QB role.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

And what did the Seahawk offense have? Wilson didnt play that great either over Teddy.

Both teams were too frozen to do anything on offense that game, that's why I think it shouldn't be used as a basis of analysis.

Two years before in an even colder playoff game Kraperdick had more than twice as many yards as Wilson and a 15 point higher QB rating (4x higher if QBR), and he friggin sucks. Wilson played poorly. It happens. End of story.

What's that you're lying?

49ers at Packers:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201401050gnb.htm

Seahawks at Vikings:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201601100min.htm

Hmm. 5 degrees, -10 wind chill vs. -6 degrees, -25 wind chill.

So, are you admitting that you'll baldface lie to win an argument?

You just lost what credibility you had left with me Popeye. True colors come shining through eventually. And spare us a bunch of bullshit about being 'mistaken' or 'mixed up'. I ain't buyin'.

Go root for "Buffalo:" (still 9ers and we all know it).

 

[rideaducati]

Cards look tough man, they had a great draft, especially on D. So IMO it's gonna be a dog fight all the way til the end.

I thought their draft sucked. They killed it in FA though, just like they usually do.

Hmm, most of the draft grades I saw had the Cards as a A or B.....................and Nkemdiche is probably the steal of the draft, dude's a beast.

Those same people graded the 2012 Seahawks draft with D or F.

Nkimdiche's highlights look great, but those highlight videos fail to show the MANY plays he doesn't even attempt to try. He just stands around during plays way too often. Watch a full game and I think you'll come to think a bit less of him.

 

[Overseasfan]

Good to see the Cards are heavily overrated again. Seems like the nfl really has something against us. They were breaking down like crazy at the end of the year and looked inferior to the top teams. I don't see Palmer repeating his strong campaign at his age either, if he even manages to stay on the field.

 

[Hasselbeck]

And what did the Seahawk offense have? Wilson didnt play that great either over Teddy.

Both teams were too frozen to do anything on offense that game, that's why I think it shouldn't be used as a basis of analysis.

Two years before in an even colder playoff game Kraperdick had more than twice as many yards as Wilson and a 15 point higher QB rating (4x higher if QBR), and he friggin sucks. Wilson played poorly. It happens. End of story.

What's that you're lying?

49ers at Packers:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201401050gnb.htm

Seahawks at Vikings:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201601100min.htm

Hmm. 5 degrees, -10 wind chill vs. -6 degrees, -25 wind chill.

So, are you admitting that you'll baldface lie to win an argument?

Even if he missed the temperature by a few degrees.. cold is cold.

The better comparison that was conveniently omitted by Popeye is this:

Vikings 2013 defense: 5th
Packers 2015 defense: 25th

Kaep would have sliced that Packer defense up in -40 degree weather or 95 degree weather. He owned GB. And Capers had no answer for him.

Zimmer on the other hand.. not only is a better coach than Capers .. he had a lot more personnel to work with.

And yeah, the early kick and frigid cold definitely didn't help Wilson + the offense out either.

 

[Hasselbeck]

Nkimdiche's highlights look great, but those highlight videos fail to show the MANY plays he doesn't even attempt to try. He just stands around during plays way too often. Watch a full game and I think you'll come to think a bit less of him.

Would you say this if he were a Seahawk? Doubtful.

Dude has immense talent.. if Arizona can get it out of him, he's a scary piece to their puzzle.

 

[rideaducati]

Nkimdiche's highlights look great, but those highlight videos fail to show the MANY plays he doesn't even attempt to try. He just stands around during plays way too often. Watch a full game and I think you'll come to think a bit less of him.

Would you say this if he were a Seahawk? Doubtful.

Dude has immense talent.. if Arizona can get it out of him, he's a scary piece to their puzzle.

I would definitely be concerned because lack of effort in practice or games would keep him off the field. He is well known far a definite lack of effort.

Many talented players never made it in the NFL because they didn't put forth the effort.

 

[RichNhansom]

And what did the Seahawk offense have? Wilson didnt play that great either over Teddy.

Both teams were too frozen to do anything on offense that game, that's why I think it shouldn't be used as a basis of analysis.

Two years before in an even colder playoff game Kraperdick had more than twice as many yards as Wilson and a 15 point higher QB rating (4x higher if QBR), and he friggin sucks. Wilson played poorly. It happens. End of story.

What's that you're lying?

49ers at Packers:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201401050gnb.htm

Seahawks at Vikings:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201601100min.htm

Hmm. 5 degrees, -10 wind chill vs. -6 degrees, -25 wind chill.

So, are you admitting that you'll baldface lie to win an argument?

Even if he missed the temperature by a few degrees.. cold is cold.

The better comparison that was conveniently omitted by Popeye is this:

Vikings 2013 defense: 5th
Packers 2015 defense: 25th

Kaep would have sliced that Packer defense up in -40 degree weather or 95 degree weather. He owned GB. And Capers had no answer for him.

Zimmer on the other hand.. not only is a better coach than Capers .. he had a lot more personnel to work with.

And yeah, the early kick and frigid cold definitely didn't help Wilson + the offense out either.[/quote]

Popeye pretty much derailed the thread by turning this into a Wilson vs Kaep debate.

Using the wild card game as an example is really dumb. Especially while ignoring the game just a few weeks earlier. That game had an extreme outlier and was aided by the worst game plan I think I have seen since Pete arrived. We looked like we had no idea the cold might affect the ball travel or Wilson's ability to even be able to throw it with frozen hands. Does that performance now become the standard we should judge Wilson on? Kind of dumb isn't it?

Who gives a shit if Kaep had a great game in GB. What does that have to do with how good or bad the Vikings are or are going to be going forward. Why is Kaep's game in GB even part of this conversation?

I agree with Kearly about the Vikings. They look like a paper tiger and Petersen declining is a very real possibility. Add to that the Packers will very likely be better than how they ended the season last year and I see a very real possibility they don't win their division and maybe even enough games to make the playoffs.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

^^^^ Turning any thread into a Kaep vs Wilson debate is a fool's errand. Nuff said.

 

[rideaducati]

^^^^ Turning any thread into a Kaep vs Wilson debate is a fool's errand. Nuff said.

Yeah, because there is no comparison...Keeporpick sucks.

 

[theincrediblesok]

I rewatched the Vikings/Seahawks playoff game.

It was cold as hell, and Wilson did struggle there is no doubt about it, but the team as a whole was unprepared for unexpected issues.

There were wasted timeouts due to communication issues, Wilson had said he could only hear bits and pieces of information coming out of his headset. Watching the video you can definitely see he couldn't get the plays in right away having to use a timeout, this is why the grimace on his face. He was trying to fully hear the plays. Another thing that no one mentioned was the sun shinning on the left side of the field that probably affected Kearse and he dropped an easy one. That limits the use on that side of the field, and the sun was still shinning on that sideline even after they switch sides.

Wasted timeouts, 3 failed 4th downs. Vikings had the clear advantage because of the home field condition and Wilson hearing bits and pieces can be like 12s screaming at Century Link field. Vikings pretty much had it right there for the taking.

If you seen the picture of Kam's fingers from that game, it was one of the coldest games in NFL history.

I expect them to be better if they have to play another cold game, using this game as a lesson.

 

[WilsonMVP]

I rewatched the Vikings/Seahawks playoff game.

It was cold as hell, and Wilson did struggle there is no doubt about it, but the team as a whole was unprepared for unexpected issues.

There were wasted timeouts due to communication issues, Wilson had said he could only hear bits and pieces of information coming out of his headset. Watching the video you can definitely see he couldn't get the plays in right away having to use a timeout, this is why the grimace on his face. He was trying to fully hear the plays. Another thing that no one mentioned was the sun shinning on the left side of the field that probably affected Kearse and he dropped an easy one. That limits the use on that side of the field, and the sun was still shinning on that sideline even after they switch sides.

Wasted timeouts, 3 failed 4th downs. Vikings had the clear advantage because of the home field condition and Wilson hearing bits and pieces can be like 12s screaming at Century Link field. Vikings pretty much had it right there for the taking.

If you seen the picture of Kam's fingers from that game, it was one of the coldest games in NFL history.

I expect them to be better if they have to play another cold game, using this game as a lesson.

Well if they have to play the Vikings again it will be inside since they are playing in their new stadium this year

 

[RichNhansom]

I rewatched the Vikings/Seahawks playoff game.

It was cold as hell, and Wilson did struggle there is no doubt about it, but the team as a whole was unprepared for unexpected issues.

There were wasted timeouts due to communication issues, Wilson had said he could only hear bits and pieces of information coming out of his headset. Watching the video you can definitely see he couldn't get the plays in right away having to use a timeout, this is why the grimace on his face. He was trying to fully hear the plays. Another thing that no one mentioned was the sun shinning on the left side of the field that probably affected Kearse and he dropped an easy one. That limits the use on that side of the field, and the sun was still shinning on that sideline even after they switch sides.

Wasted timeouts, 3 failed 4th downs. Vikings had the clear advantage because of the home field condition and Wilson hearing bits and pieces can be like 12s screaming at Century Link field. Vikings pretty much had it right there for the taking.

If you seen the picture of Kam's fingers from that game, it was one of the coldest games in NFL history.

I expect them to be better if they have to play another cold game, using this game as a lesson.

There's a reason the Vikings took the sunny side of the field.

I really was disappointed in our game prep. We looked like we just ran out the same big play, stretch the field game plan while the Vikings were essentially playing small ball. It's amazing the game was even close considering how many plays we basically threw away trying to do things the weather wouldn't permit.

The home field advantage was less about the actual cold and more about the knowledge of how to play in those type of conditions.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

I really was disappointed in our game prep. We looked like we just ran out the same big play, stretch the field game plan while the Vikings were essentially playing small ball. It's amazing the game was even close considering how many plays we basically threw away trying to do things the weather wouldn't permit.

The home field advantage was less about the actual cold and more about the knowledge of how to play in those type of conditions.

Completely agree.