"Clayton claims he's "baffled" by Wilson contract talks"

[Popeyejones]

No, you're 100% correct.

Kaepernick = Wilson.

:sarcasm_off:

Anything else I didn't say that you want to make up for me? :lol:

 

[hawknation2015]

No, you're 100% correct.

Kaepernick = Wilson.

:sarcasm_off:

Anything else I didn't say that you want to make up for me? :lol:

The difference between Kaepernick's passing and Smith's may be somewhat close, although Smith tends to show better discipline and composure at the end of the games, which I why I feel he is the better overall QB.

The difference between Kaepernick and Wilson's passing, on the other hand, is not "close" at all.

Wilson is a much better decision maker and more accurate passer. Kaepernick has never had a season in he completed 63% of his passes, while Wilson has never had a season in which he has completed less than 63% of his passes. Kaepernick has just 50 passing TDs in his career vs. 72 for Wilson. Wilson is superior in nearly every conceivable metric.

Most of all: Kaepernick has the league's worst QB rating in the 4th Quarter for a starter over the last two seasons, while Wilson has been one of the league's most clutch QBs at the end of the games. Wilson has a career QB rating of 99 in the 4th Quarter and OT, while Kaepernick has twice as many INTs as TDs, and a QB rating of 70 in the 4th Quarter and OT. They are not close at all.

 

[Popeyejones]

^^^ You can go into all the detail you want about the thing I never said, but it's still not going to make me have said it. :lol:

:th2thumbs:

 

[brimsalabim]

Why would Wilson's new salary make any difference in a comparison between these three anyway when both Kap & Smith are already playing with better tallent at their disposal than Russell has had to date?

 

[NINEster]

The Alex Smith comparison is just plain dumb. Let me guess, you niner fans are also comparing Keeporpick to Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Manning...oh wait...http://www.ninersnation.com/2015/6/25/8 ... ent-greats

What a bunch of complete and utter garbage.

As far as Alex being better than Kaepernick? They both suck, so that is like saying colon cancer is better than liver cancer...they can both be pretty bad.

I think this season will show how good these 3 QBs really are. Once Wilson becomes a high teen/low 20 millionaire , the comparisons will be fair.

IMHO, Wilson is closer in talent to Kaepernick than you think. Def closer to him than a Rodgers, Brady, etc.

People forget 2012 and the 2013 NFCC so quickly.

Answer this:

Who had a better defense the last two years? SEA or SF?
Who was better RB? Lynch or Gore.
Which QB and RB ran more?
Which QB threw more?

If Wilson really is super elite, 20-25 APY is essentially the same. They wouldn't deny Rodgers, Peyton, Roethlisberger, etc that money if that's what it took.

But if he's perceived to be a rung below, that money will hurt the team.

Schneider and Allen will speak the unbiased truth. We're all just loudmouth spectators, but they cut the checks and take the heat for the team.

Niner fans were a bit stunned at how hard Baalke was with Smith in 2011-2012 offseason and Kap with his contract.

Most GMs are pretty damn neutral when it comes down to it.

Paying a QB only hurts a team that doesn't draft well or is paying money to a bad QB. $25 million/year for Russell is better use of money than Kaepernick at $17 million/year. Russell has already been offered over $21 million/year which would rank him THIRD highest paid QB in the league, so there is the perception of Russell from the Seahawk front office.

People seem to believe that the Seahawks are low balling Russell which is not true. Russell's agent seems to think he can change the way the NFL does contracts and wants the entire contract guaranteed.

I disagree with your first two sentences.

Even if I agreed 100%, I still don't think Wilson is worth it at $25 million.

And more importantly, you need to look at these contracts in context -- what are other players on the team getting. Cam could conceivably get $30 million for one year and it's no big deal because they have nobody else making big money on that team.

Wilson making >= Cam is not a good deal from the Seattle cap situation. Maybe 2 years ago when Sherman, Chancellor were making peanuts, and Thomas was making peanuts for his ability....and Bobby Wagner.....I could say fine. But now all of those guys are paid, Bobby is coming soon. How much does Jimmy make? Will Bennett demand more?

I won't get into the QB debates except to say that you're a bit of a homer if you think Kap sucks and Wilson is worth whatever a top salary is worth. Your Hawks would have cruised to an NFC Champ victory in 2013 but instead it came down to the wire. And why? Because Kap gained over 100 on the ground when Gore and Hunter couldn't, then made a crazy TD pass that even Aaron Rodgers couldn't make against LOB.

Based on that game alone, a high stakes playoff game, Kap did more with less than Wilson did. Undeniable.

Maybe he lost the game for SF. But without him, it's another 23-3 drudging at the Link.

 

[ctrcat]

The Alex Smith comparison is just plain dumb. Let me guess, you niner fans are also comparing Keeporpick to Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Manning...oh wait...http://www.ninersnation.com/2015/6/25/8 ... ent-greats

What a bunch of complete and utter garbage.

As far as Alex being better than Kaepernick? They both suck, so that is like saying colon cancer is better than liver cancer...they can both be pretty bad.

I think this season will show how good these 3 QBs really are. Once Wilson becomes a high teen/low 20 millionaire , the comparisons will be fair.

IMHO, Wilson is closer in talent to Kaepernick than you think. Def closer to him than a Rodgers, Brady, etc.

People forget 2012 and the 2013 NFCC so quickly.

Answer this:

Who had a better defense the last two years? SEA or SF?
Who was better RB? Lynch or Gore.
Which QB and RB ran more?
Which QB threw more?

If Wilson really is super elite, 20-25 APY is essentially the same. They wouldn't deny Rodgers, Peyton, Roethlisberger, etc that money if that's what it took.

But if he's perceived to be a rung below, that money will hurt the team.

Schneider and Allen will speak the unbiased truth. We're all just loudmouth spectators, but they cut the checks and take the heat for the team.

Niner fans were a bit stunned at how hard Baalke was with Smith in 2011-2012 offseason and Kap with his contract.

Most GMs are pretty damn neutral when it comes down to it.

Paying a QB only hurts a team that doesn't draft well or is paying money to a bad QB. $25 million/year for Russell is better use of money than Kaepernick at $17 million/year. Russell has already been offered over $21 million/year which would rank him THIRD highest paid QB in the league, so there is the perception of Russell from the Seahawk front office.

People seem to believe that the Seahawks are low balling Russell which is not true. Russell's agent seems to think he can change the way the NFL does contracts and wants the entire contract guaranteed.

I disagree with your first two sentences.

Even if I agreed 100%, I still don't think Wilson is worth it at $25 million.

And more importantly, you need to look at these contracts in context -- what are other players on the team getting. Cam could conceivably get $30 million for one year and it's no big deal because they have nobody else making big money on that team.

Charles Johnson and Jonathan Stewart are highly (over)paid, but are on the backend of deals given under a previous GM.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

Damn. Nice ride.

 

[Zybot]

I didn't know where to put these thoughts, so I decided to stick them here. I am a Portland transplant living in Seattle. So, I follow the Blazers pretty closely (another Paul Allen owned team). The Blazers just lost their best player for nothing. The speculation amongst knowledgeable Blazer fans is that Paul Allen was behind the movement to not trade Aldridge 2 years ago, put pieces around him and hope that in the summer of 2015 Aldridge would be re-sign with the Blazers even though Aldridge was reluctant to sign an extension. Although it is a different situation (Wilson clearly wants to stay with the Seahawks if the money is equal), I wonder if this experience affects what Allen wants to do with Russell Wilson or how negotiations progress from here. Is Allen now gunshy? Does Allen want to take the chance of letting one of his best players (the QB of all things) bolt for compensatory picks? Or does Allen stick to his guns?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I didn't know where to put these thoughts, so I decided to stick them here. I am a Portland transplant living in Seattle. So, I follow the Blazers pretty closely (another Paul Allen owned team). The Blazers just lost their best player for nothing. The speculation amongst knowledgeable Blazer fans is that Paul Allen was behind the movement to not trade Aldridge 2 years ago, put pieces around him and hope that in the summer of 2015 Aldridge would be re-sign with the Blazers even though Aldridge was reluctant to sign an extension. Although it is a different situation (Wilson clearly wants to stay with the Seahawks if the money is equal), I wonder if this experience affects what Allen wants to do with Russell Wilson or how negotiations progress from here. Is Allen now gunshy? Does Allen want to take the chance of letting one of his best players (the QB of all things) bolt for compensatory picks? Or does Allen stick to his guns?

I don't think Aldridge leaving the Blazers had anything to do with Allen.

IMO the Trailblazers are much like the M's, VERY hard to not only lure free agents, but keep their own stars.

This is especially true in the NBA, where it's all about the "brand." So players like Aldridge, like A-Rod and others that have left the M's for greener pastures and a higher profile market see very few reasons to stay in a small market tucked up in the NW corner of the US.

btw, Oregon being an income tax state doesn't help the Blazers one bit.

 

[Zybot]

I don't think Aldridge leaving the Blazers had anything to do with Allen.

IMO the Trailblazers are much like the M's, VERY hard to not only lure free agents, but keep their own stars.

This is especially true in the NBA, where it's all about the "brand." So players like Aldridge, like A-Rod and others that have left the M's for greener pastures and a higher profile market see very few reasons to stay in a small market tucked up in the NW corner of the US.

btw, Oregon being an income tax state doesn't help the Blazers one bit.

Truth is that it's hard to tell what role Allen had with Aldridge. But, after getting burned by Aldridge, I wonder if that affects Allen's thinking with Wilson. The fortunate thing for the Seahawks is that if we lose Wilson after the franchise tag, we still have a great team and it won't be the fire sale / dumpster fire that was the Blazers.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I don't think Aldridge leaving the Blazers had anything to do with Allen.

IMO the Trailblazers are much like the M's, VERY hard to not only lure free agents, but keep their own stars.

This is especially true in the NBA, where it's all about the "brand." So players like Aldridge, like A-Rod and others that have left the M's for greener pastures and a higher profile market see very few reasons to stay in a small market tucked up in the NW corner of the US.

btw, Oregon being an income tax state doesn't help the Blazers one bit.

Truth is that it's hard to tell what role Allen had with Aldridge. But, after getting burned by Aldridge, I wonder if that affects Allen's thinking with Wilson. The fortunate thing for the Seahawks is that if we lose Wilson after the franchise tag, we still have a great team and it won't be the fire sale / dumpster fire that was the Blazers.

Allen seems like a pretty hands off owner when it comes to the every day operations of the Hawks, and that includes player contracts. He trusts Pete and John.

Now maybe if the contracts devolve and Wilson get's close to leaving? Then Allen might step in and get involved.

 

[rideaducati]

The Alex Smith comparison is just plain dumb. Let me guess, you niner fans are also comparing Keeporpick to Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Manning...oh wait...http://www.ninersnation.com/2015/6/25/8 ... ent-greats

What a bunch of complete and utter garbage.

As far as Alex being better than Kaepernick? They both suck, so that is like saying colon cancer is better than liver cancer...they can both be pretty bad.

I think this season will show how good these 3 QBs really are. Once Wilson becomes a high teen/low 20 millionaire , the comparisons will be fair.

IMHO, Wilson is closer in talent to Kaepernick than you think. Def closer to him than a Rodgers, Brady, etc.

People forget 2012 and the 2013 NFCC so quickly.

Answer this:

Who had a better defense the last two years? SEA or SF?
Who was better RB? Lynch or Gore.
Which QB and RB ran more?
Which QB threw more?

If Wilson really is super elite, 20-25 APY is essentially the same. They wouldn't deny Rodgers, Peyton, Roethlisberger, etc that money if that's what it took.

But if he's perceived to be a rung below, that money will hurt the team.

Schneider and Allen will speak the unbiased truth. We're all just loudmouth spectators, but they cut the checks and take the heat for the team.

Niner fans were a bit stunned at how hard Baalke was with Smith in 2011-2012 offseason and Kap with his contract.

Most GMs are pretty damn neutral when it comes down to it.

Paying a QB only hurts a team that doesn't draft well or is paying money to a bad QB. $25 million/year for Russell is better use of money than Kaepernick at $17 million/year. Russell has already been offered over $21 million/year which would rank him THIRD highest paid QB in the league, so there is the perception of Russell from the Seahawk front office.

People seem to believe that the Seahawks are low balling Russell which is not true. Russell's agent seems to think he can change the way the NFL does contracts and wants the entire contract guaranteed.

I disagree with your first two sentences.

Even if I agreed 100%, I still don't think Wilson is worth it at $25 million.

And more importantly, you need to look at these contracts in context -- what are other players on the team getting. Cam could conceivably get $30 million for one year and it's no big deal because they have nobody else making big money on that team.

Wilson making >= Cam is not a good deal from the Seattle cap situation. Maybe 2 years ago when Sherman, Chancellor were making peanuts, and Thomas was making peanuts for his ability....and Bobby Wagner.....I could say fine. But now all of those guys are paid, Bobby is coming soon. How much does Jimmy make? Will Bennett demand more?

I won't get into the QB debates except to say that you're a bit of a homer if you think Kap sucks and Wilson is worth whatever a top salary is worth. Your Hawks would have cruised to an NFC Champ victory in 2013 but instead it came down to the wire. And why? Because Kap gained over 100 on the ground when Gore and Hunter couldn't, then made a crazy TD pass that even Aaron Rodgers couldn't make against LOB.

Based on that game alone, a high stakes playoff game, Kap did more with less than Wilson did. Undeniable.

Maybe he lost the game for SF. But without him, it's another 23-3 drudging at the Link.

If Kaepernick sucks, how am I a homer for saying Kaepernick sucks? Kaepernick sucking and Russell being worth a top salary are not related in any way. Basing your opinion of Kaepernick on his rushing stats in that game are why you are blind and don't see how bad Kaepernick is at the QB position.

Watching Kaepernick, I see very poor footwork, very poor progression through receivers, very slow decision making, poor pre-snap reads and his only pitch is a fastball. Those things are the total opposite of what most people want to see in their QB and the total opposite of Russell Wilson. Being that they are total opposites, saying Kaepernick sucks and Russell deserves a top contract shouldn't be construed as me being a homer, especially since BOTH are true.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I can't stand Kaep, but he certainly doesn't suck. Now his decision making sucks, no doubt about that. But there's no denying he has some incredible physical tools. Very strong arm, and a ridiculous runner. I'm just glad they signed him to an extension, because when the game is on the line, he just doesn't get it done.

 

[Basis4day]

https://grantland.com/the-triangle/tip- ... ll-wilson/

Bill Barnwell at Grantland has a pretty good breakdown of both sides' arguments on Wilson's value.

It is also the opening topic on the Grantland NFL podcast:

https://grantland.com/the-triangle/the- ... d-mailbag/

 

[hawknation2015]

https://grantland.com/the-triangle/tip-o-the-salary-cap-what-to-do-about-russell-wilson/

Bill Barnwell at Grantland has a pretty good breakdown of both sides' arguments on Wilson's value.

It is also the opening topic on the Grantland NFL podcast:

https://grantland.com/the-triangle/the- ... d-mailbag/

That article definitely ends on an ominous note. I can't see them letting Wagner go . . . or choosing Okung over Wagner.

That leaves little in the way of wriggle room for the rest of Seattle’s 2016 free-agent class. Irvin is as good as gone. Three-quarters of the team’s defensive tackle rotation — Brandon Mebane, Tony McDaniel, and Ahtyba Rubin — will be on the way out. The team will probably need to cut bait on veterans Steven Hauschka and Baldwin, which would combine to clear nearly $7 million in cap space. And incredibly named guard J.R. Sweezy is one of two starting offensive linemen whose contracts will be due, with the other lineman looming as a far more meaningful loss.

Okung’s six-year, $48.5 million rookie contract expires at the end of this season, and given the sheer amount of money Schneider is going to commit elsewhere over the next 12 months, there doesn’t appear to be much space left for paying the team’s Pro Bowl left tackle. It’s not a good sign for his future with the team that Okung hasn’t already signed an extension, and if he hits the free-agent market, Seattle will likely be priced out of a deal. The left tackle market is set to be relatively loaded, with Trent Williams, Nate Solder, Anthony Castonzo, and Andrew Whitworth due to become free agents, but too many teams need tackles to let Okung slip back to Seattle on a below-market deal.

My best guess is that the Seahawks can sign only two of their big three 2016 free agents to extensions. Of the three, they’re probably right to move on from Okung, even given the relative positional scarcity of a left tackle, because Okung hasn’t played at as dominant of a level as Wagner and is yet to complete a single 16-game season. I could even understand re-signing Okung and letting Wagner leave, given how much Seattle has already invested on the defensive side and how frequently quality middle linebackers can fall to the second and third rounds on draft day. With Wilson, though, both sides simply have too much to lose by parting ways.