Current roster

[Gametime]

I understand the emotional connection to Pope but IMO Collins is a better FOOTBALL decision. No way a dude that rushed for 1672 yd (5.9yrd average) and 20 Td's in the SEC gets through to the P.S. I was at the scrimmage game during training camp and he was amazing. Then he got hurt. He wasn't the same until just (maybe) recently. It's possible the FO is aware of the impact the injury had and knows what he could bring when 100%. Add to that the fact that between the two backs, Pope has a much better shot and clearing waivers.

Pope had very similar stats but for Jacksonville state. He is a great story and I love the kid but this was a business decision and I don't understand why people are so shocked. I would have liked Lockett to have some help returning KO and PR but that's about it. I think it came down to staying power in the immediate future and we needed a bruising type back to balance out the running styles. It's a VERY diverse group.

Burley was injured and I think he'll be back. As soon as he is healthy and needed he'll be back on the roster. IMO.

I just want the season to start already.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Schneider is reading too many of his press clippings and it is starting to show.

There were some moron moves this year in these choices.

Every year a bunch of fans always doubt pcjs, as if they know better. I think their track record speaks for itself.

There is also the fact John and Pete have said they have done things and got too cute or over thought things. Where we have not been at practice we can see on field production on game days. This is why there is doubt and head scratching, keeping future potential on the roster because the Browns snagged someone once, or stacking up on Safeties to sort out special teams that should have been done already while cutting CB's that have helped and making that position thin, not picking up a Linebacker when your thin, cutting the most explosive RB you have on your roster that out performed all you had for 4 games as well as the other rookies you drafted.

We haven't seen crap. Preseason is all vanilla and little if nothing of an indication of what they actually plan to do offensively or defensively. No Fullbacks? Why waste a spot on a position never used in a spread offense or empty sets? Rawls or Michael don't need a fullback. Collins when healthy doesn't need a fullback especially if you have Procise, Graham, McEvoy among others as options. 7 safeties? It's a passing league and they likely are going to 4/2/5 concepts to combat the spread that is becoming more and more common in the NFL. It's called evolve or die. The hyperbole happening concerning 5th string RB's and the like is getting stunningly ridiculous.

This isn't 2010-11 this is 2016. And this is a team that is absolutely loaded with core players in their prime on both sides of the ball so the depth better have high upside given it's unlikely they will actually play for any significant time unless we do a 2015 Baltimore and if that happens we're in the race for a top 5 pick given the season would be lost.

And yes we are becoming more of an offensive team but never to the degree that Twisted Husky is talking about (Pittsburgh who by the way have reloaded their defense quite nicely). We're going to be a balanced offense for the first time since JS/PC have been here and will expect the offense to carry a bit more of it's own weight. It's not the end of the world but it is change. We might not be the best scoring defense but we will be top 5 and probably around 16-17 PPG. The offense should start scoring 28+ instead of 26 or so.

 

[TwistedHusky]

MSG,

I think you are conflating concern about a single RB with concern about quizzical personnel decisions up and down the line.

 

[razor150]

You don't have a problem with keeping Simon over Burley?

That's worse than cutting Pope.

Sure Collins is about as useful as a fishnet condom, but all he costs you is a roster slot. Same with CJ.

But losing effective corners hurts you in GAMES. (note the S...that means more than one)

We lose corners to injury all the time, we struggle with the shifty smaller receivers until we put Burley on them.

Now they are going to violate us, repeatedly.

Schneider just added 1-2 extra losses to this team this year based on the moves he made.

I'm beyond confused that the "humble thug" is still here as well. Burley showed he belonged with his strong play while we had him. Something Simon has NEVER shown. I've never liked Simon. He's definitely worn out his welcome. It's Walter Thurmond all over again.

I wouldn't compare Simon to Thurmond, Thurmond was good when he was healthy.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

MSG,

I think you are conflating concern about a single RB with concern about quizzical personnel decisions up and down the line.

Maybe. So explain TH. You're so black or white. If I'm getting you wrong pretend you're in technical support like me and I'm the old lady trying to get my TV to work. My screen is black or my Netflix isn't working.... help me. Go! I'm a fan of this team just like yourself so I'm not going to be actually mad at you for having a different opinion. I would be angry if you personally attacked me (which you haven't ever).

I gave my opinion of the less then obvious decisions am I offbase? Is my reasoning valid, if not completely mainstream or accepted or expected? Remember John and Pete see the complete picture while we see maybe 25% of said picture. They have 100% of the picture while we have 25% of it. In technical support that is called "you're screwed given you have no clue about the actual scenario or issue".

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Montana's pessimism won the day with Collins v. Pope. I'm not pessimistic all that often, but when I do get that pessimist feeling it is almost always right, and I shared a brain with Montana on this one.

To be fair, my full prediction doesn't come true until Pope is snatched up by another team. I certainly hope he sneaks through.

I suspect PCJS just see his talent and even his intensity as redundant, which is less a diss on him and more of a compliment to Rawls and Michael. And since we've got another Pope in Rawls, PCJS figures, why not try Collins and see if we can diversity our RB portfolio even more?

 

[TwistedHusky]

I am frustrated that they feel like they are deviating from the recipe that made them dominant in the first place.

We built this team by identifying areas where certain physical attributes were undervalued by the rest of the NFL or certain positions were. So we could pick up guys that contributed greater relative value to the team.

In an instance, speed was weighted higher than size in CBs. Big corners that were slower were easier to come by because the rest of the NFL wanted fast guys.

OK so some of what we used to succeed is now no longer overlooked, our recipe for stud corner is half the league's recipe. Great safeties are less overlooked as well (the position may well start becoming overvalued).

So maybe they cannot follow the old recipe because there are no "cheap" corners to be had and molded. But something is off, and it is pretty clear they shifted some focus.

In a league where the QB is given all this extra rope vs the rest of the league - the only way to effectively compete is to have strong CBs or reliable enough RBs you can keep the other QB off the field.

Look at all the last SB winners, all of them, including us, had stellar CB groups. The data is pretty clear, you better have great corners if you want to win. We have very thin cornerback depth. We also have only one great corner now. Lane is one minor exception but most of our corners are effective on the big WRs but not as effective on the small speedy guys. Remember Ty Hilton just reaming us? NE in the SB?

At some point, we picked up Burley to address this and he has been very effective as the guy vs the slot.

But now? I see a lot of push toward the offense and it bothers me. As an example, Tanner should have been a safety.

I really hope you are right, because our DL looked lost even in preseason and even with 1-2 guys out they should have been better.

ST won't matter if we cannot stop teams from matching up the field on us and scoring TDs. And I really doubt all those safeties we grabbed at the 11th hour are for ST only. It feels like we are throwing crap against the wall hoping it will stick.

 

[Basis4day]

I am frustrated that they feel like they are deviating from the recipe that made them dominant in the first place.

We built this team by identifying areas where certain physical attributes were undervalued by the rest of the NFL or certain positions were. So we could pick up guys that contributed greater relative value to the team.

In an instance, speed was weighted higher than size in CBs. Big corners that were slower were easier to come by because the rest of the NFL wanted fast guys.

OK so some of what we used to succeed is now no longer overlooked, our recipe for stud corner is half the league's recipe. Great safeties are less overlooked as well (the position may well start becoming overvalued).

But in a league where the QB is given all this extra rope vs the rest of the league - the only way to effectively compete is to have strong CBs or reliable enough RBs you can keep the other QB off the field.

Look at all the last SB winners, all of them, including us, had stellar CB groups. The data is pretty clear, you better have great corners if you want to win. We have very thin cornerback depth. We also have only one great corner now. Lane is one minor exception but most of our corners are effective on the big WRs but not as effective on the small speedy guys. Remember Ty Hilton just reaming us? NE in the SB?

At some point, we picked up Burley to address this and he has been very effective as the guy vs the slot.

But now? I see a lot of push toward the offense and it bothers me.

I really hope you are right, because our DL looked lost even in preseason and even with 1-2 guys out they should have been better.

ST won't matter if we cannot stop teams from matching up the field on us and scoring TDs. And I really doubt all those safeties we grabbed at the 11th hour are for ST only. It feels like we are throwing crap against the wall hoping it will stick.

Yes, against Brandon Browner. Who seemed to be a fan favorite to make the team among fans.

As far as NE goes... Ugh... Lane got a torn ACL in the 1st quarter and Sherman, Chancellor, and Thomas were all playing hurt. Lets not pretend otherwise like it was indicative of the team as a whole.

That is the definition of hind-site bias.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

I am frustrated that they feel like they are deviating from the recipe that made them dominant in the first place.

We built this team by identifying areas where certain physical attributes were undervalued by the rest of the NFL or certain positions were. So we could pick up guys that contributed greater relative value to the team.

In an instance, speed was weighted higher than size in CBs. Big corners that were slower were easier to come by because the rest of the NFL wanted fast guys.

OK so some of what we used to succeed is now no longer overlooked, our recipe for stud corner is half the league's recipe. Great safeties are less overlooked as well (the position may well start becoming overvalued).

But in a league where the QB is given all this extra rope vs the rest of the league - the only way to effectively compete is to have strong CBs or reliable enough RBs you can keep the other QB off the field.

Look at all the last SB winners, all of them, including us, had stellar CB groups. The data is pretty clear, you better have great corners if you want to win. We have very thin cornerback depth. We also have only one great corner now. Lane is one minor exception but most of our corners are effective on the big WRs but not as effective on the small speedy guys. Remember Ty Hilton just reaming us? NE in the SB?

At some point, we picked up Burley to address this and he has been very effective as the guy vs the slot.

But now? I see a lot of push toward the offense and it bothers me.

I really hope you are right, because our DL looked lost even in preseason and even with 1-2 guys out they should have been better.

ST won't matter if we cannot stop teams from matching up the field on us and scoring TDs. And I really doubt all those safeties we grabbed at the 11th hour are for ST only. It feels like we are throwing crap against the wall hoping it will stick.

But they are deviating from the recipe because it doesn't work and the core has changed. It's time for the team to be Wilson's not Lynch's. It's time to expect the offense to carry it's own weight and sometimes carry the team. It's scary because I'm convinced they didn't show a damn thing in preseason and are totally doing a scheme change offensively and defensively given the cuts and trades. They definitely are going for a balanced offense. Defense? I really think they going for the Big Dime or 4/2/5 like TCU. Defensively they have to change given even my dead mother knows EXACTLY how to beat us. When Phillip Rivers punks your defense you have serious issues.

On a lighter note I help people with networking issues all day long and know bubkus about computers and don't even have desktop computer. :2thumbs:

 

[Sports Hernia]

Burley was waived injured. I would have preferred the Hawks kept him over Simon but that explains it.

Yeah keeping Simon peeves me a bit.
He has done nothing in games to keep a roster spot.
Unless you count getting beat and complaining to officials a valuable skill set.

 

[TwilightError]

It's safe to say this will not be the final 53 on September 11th. Such a weirdly constructed posse it is.

 

[West TX Hawk]

The 4-2-5 theory many folks are surmising is intriguing and simply makes sense as a way to combat the dink and dunkers of NE, GB, others and the TE seam issue. Could the new safeties also be a mild panic to shore up our ST coverage issues seen in the Oak game?

 

[Largent80]

The defense has some pieces added that seem to be a slight tweak of the system may take place.

I don't see us as good as last year, but hoping I have a large crow to eat when it all get's going.

 

[Ozzy]

So now teams are going to march right down the field and score at will on us because we kept a couple of extra safeties? We've had the #1 scoring defense 4 years in a row, the first time in the modern era its ever been done and we have almost all of our pieces and then some in place. They already know what moves are coming next and this roster will look different in a week. I am interested in the idea of the 4-2-5 theory....

 

[dogorama]

nt

 

[RW92]

Burley was waived injured. I would have preferred the Hawks kept him over Simon but that explains it.

Yeah keeping Simon peeves me a bit.
He has done nothing in games to keep a roster spot.
Unless you count getting beat and complaining to officials a valuable skill set.

I have to agree with you. Simon gets beat all the time. I think we made an error here. Hopefully no one gets injured so he has to play. Otherwise special teams is all that I could see him contributing.

As far as the starting roster I would like to see Lane play above Shead. Shead isn't bad but Lane I feel is a little quicker to the ball.

Right now I would play McDaniel over Rubin. Rubin doesn't get the push that you need inside to get to the quarterback.

And if I had to I would move Michael B. inside and put Frank C. on the DE on pass rushing downs. Bottom line, play those individuals with the best quickness, and athleticism to the ball, coupled with positive pressure to the QB. You have to get off the field on 3rd down. Lastly I hope Kris R. blitzes more than last year. I felt at times we relied to much on the zone and let teams dink and dive methodically down the field.

Nice to Tyler L. playing more. Kearse has lost a step and I would play Richardson over him in the three wide receiver set.

It will hurt at times not having a full back. Not sure what Pete's and John's plans are there.

Good luck to the season. Hope we play well next Sunday.

 

[Seymour]

I wouldn't compare Simon to Thurmond, Thurmond was good when he was healthy.

Exactly! The only comparison is injury, as far as being useful SImon is only useful to the opposition.

So....who does this sound like??

He is who he is, exactly as labeled, yet we hang on and waste time and it just makes matters worse.

...he looks the part coming off the bus, but he lacks the fluid movement skills teams are looking for in NFL-ready cornerbacks. He has some messy footwork that cost him valuable time in his backpedal. He struggles in press coverage in large part due to his poor balance and messy hand placement.

Because of his aggressiveness, he will find himself looking into the backfield for too long, causing him to lose sight of his man. He is a poor situational player, often drawing costly penalties and giving his opponents too much cushion in short-yardage situations. He can get caught committing too much body weight to tying up a receiver, causing him to lunge out of position.

 

[Seafan]

Burley was waived injured. I would have preferred the Hawks kept him over Simon but that explains it.

Yeah keeping Simon peeves me a bit.


Right now I would play McDaniel over Rubin. Rubin doesn't get the push that you need inside to get to the quarterback.

.

Wouldn't surprise me with Reed out if the Hawks start Rubin at NT and Tony at 3Tech.

 

[stack600]

So now teams are going to march right down the field and score at will on us because we kept a couple of extra safeties? We've had the #1 scoring defense 4 years in a row, the first time in the modern era its ever been done and we have almost all of our pieces and then some in place. They already know what moves are coming next and this roster will look different in a week. I am interested in the idea of the 4-2-5 theory....

I concur with you, and also look forward to 4-2-5 shutdown of the Gronks, Olsen and the other blue chip TEs on this 2016 schedule...there is a plan here, and like said above we only see 25% of the big picture ..I'm In :2thumbs:

 

[kearly]

So... two-thirds of our depth at corner is Simon and Powell? Yeah that's not scary or anything...

Elliot sure looked good in game four. I hope he's for real because we are going to need him.

Not sure how you are figuring that. The team is carrying 5 CBs. Shead, Lane, Sherman, Elliott, Simon and Powell. Terrell has also played there. Depth at CB is not a problem.

Starters: Sherman, Shead, Lane
Depth: Simon, Powell, Elliott

IMO it is a stretch to consider Terrell a CB.