Darnell Dockett

[titan3131]

As far as I am concerned the only player to bleed cardinal red is Larry F.

He stayed while Arians puts him at risk in the middle with a terrible QB. No one else has loyalty to your team that has been proven. Any other player is a huge reach imo.

 

[Popeyejones]

Yes I truly believed he bled Cardinal red. I am sure a lot of you felt the same way about Gore.

Nah, I love, love, love Frank Gore, but I had even (mistakenly) said that the 9ers should have moved on from him before last year. (Marvin disagreed with me, FWIW). Every 9er fan knew Gore would be gone this off-season. If you go to the Webzone (you're there a lot) you'll even see that everyone in the Gore thread is rooting for him on the Colts rather than trashing him like you are with Dockett.

A lot more information is available to me now then there was in April. In April I assumed he wouldn't be missing OTA's and part of training camp but he did.

"A lot more infromation" is a handful of pre-season snaps in one game. I quoted you above (from after he signed with the 9ers) saying you doubted he would even be ready to come back for the start of the regular season. Now that this prediction isn't true, you've just shifted your doomsday scenario to something else.

I will applaud my FO on not being blind like myself

Again, based on a handful of pre-season snaps in his first game back of an ACL injury and over a season not playing.

My point is that Dockett could get cut tomorrow and right her right now you'd still be completely full of it.

 

[ringless]

Yes I truly believed he bled Cardinal red. I am sure a lot of you felt the same way about Gore.

Nah, I love, love, love Frank Gore, but I had even (mistakenly) said that the 9ers should have moved on from him before last year. (Marvin disagreed with me, FWIW). Every 9er fan knew Gore would be gone this off-season. If you go to the Webzone (you're there a lot) you'll even see that everyone in the Gore thread is rooting for him on the Colts rather than trashing him like you are with Dockett.

A lot more information is available to me now then there was in April. In April I assumed he wouldn't be missing OTA's and part of training camp but he did.

"A lot more infromation" is a handful of pre-season snaps in one game. I quoted you above (from after he signed with the 9ers) saying you doubted he would even be ready to come back for the start of the regular season. Now that this prediction isn't true, you've just shifted your doomsday scenario to something else.

I will applaud my FO on not being blind like myself

Again, based on a handful of pre-season snaps in his first game back of an ACL injury and over a season not playing.

My point is that Dockett could get cut tomorrow and right her right now you'd still be completely full of it.

I think there is a big difference of going to Indy than if he had gone to Seattle? Those are two completely different things. A lot more information is more than a few preseason snaps. He is clearly behind other players who are recently coming off ACL injuries. That is a red flag whether you want to believe it or not. Maybe he had a set back I don't know. But I do know I am seeing other players coming back much quicker than he has.

I am sure if I looked through your posts I would find quotes where you disliked Dockett and thought he was a dirty player. If I did that, and you have thought that., what has changed since then?

 

[Laloosh]

Here we go. From Feb 27:

I understand why he was released. But this is a guy that bleeds red... Just like everyone else but more of a Cardinal red. Even when recovering he didn't miss a game, attended all the practices, and went to team meetings. HE has always come across as extremely loyal to the Cardinals. I'm not trying to be a homer, but I do think he ends up signing with the Cardinals again. I think that is where is heart truly is unless there is a team willing to offer a lot more. then 4-5 million which I am assuming was the range as opposed to 6.8..... I guess time will tell, hate to lose him, even at his age.

And since the day he signed with the 9ers that has become:

Dockett was overpaid and injured on a downward slide in performance.

What's funny here is that originally Ringless valued Dockett to the Cards at 4-5 million, and now that the 9ers are paying him 3.75 million he is now "overpaid" :lol:

[Iupati] has always had his way with Dockett and now he gets to do it again 2 times a year

Dockett was one of the upgrades this offseason on their Defensive line ( A player who hasn't taken a snap in almost 2 years and is now 34 coming off a major ACL injury that they most likely overpaid for.

To answer your question according to Matt Barrows no he has not been cleared for practice yet although that could change come minicamp. But I doubt Dockett would even be ready for the season opener at that point.

 

[Marvin49]

Uhm......... Note to Niner fans... There is kind of a big difference between...

A 6'0, 240 pound LBer two years removed from an age 25 injury (ACL).

AND

A 6'4, 300 pound DT one year removed from an age 33 injury (ACL).

Not that I care either way but the OP does have a point about Dockett: He's big, tall, and old coming back from a serious injury.

And I say for any DT, legs are the most important part of thier body because thats where most of thier power and leverage comes from.

Knees are vital for any football player's legs as flexibility is a key element in binding that power and leverage.

So its not surprising that a 34 year old DT who stands 6'4 and carries a lot of weight with a bum knee would struggle in maintaining leverage and sustaining power.

Those are just facts. Dockett might be servicable in a limited role and his expertise certainly will help develop the youth within 49ers D-Line but...

Its not far fetched at all that Dockett will be a shell of his former dominant self.

Using Bowman as an example is really a poor, counter argument. The dude was the best downhill LBer in the game before his injury, even if he came back 20% off his former game, he's still a top 10 ILB.

Dockett was a quality player in his last two seasons in '12 and '13 but he was already trending downwards. DD hasnt been a consistently dominant DT since his '10, '11 seasons but more so in 2009 which was when he was one of the elite DTs in the game.

2009 was 6 years ago but carry on 49ers fans. Oh, and im sure Ringless, the resident Cards fan, would have the best understanding of Dockett former and present. And I doubt despite his history he is negatively judging a player because of his detest of all 49ers.

So honestly I would respect R-Less's insight on a former Cards great that he has probably seen play over a 100 of times.

Um...note to Pandion Haliaetus...

Methinks you to the comment WAY too seriously. LOL.

The point wasn't to compare Bowman and Dockett as it was just to show that 3 or 4 plays in the preseason are an incredibly small sample size to make any real comment.

I have no idea how Dockett will play...or Bowman for that matter. What I do know is that 3 or 4 plays in a preseason game isn't really enough to draw any conclusion.

 

[Popeyejones]

I think there is a big difference of going to Indy than if he had gone to Seattle? Those are two completely different things.

Maybe for some of the lower tier posters on .net, but for me, not at all. How many hundreds of times here have I discussed how much I love and root for Marshawn Lynch not only for his play but also because he's from Oakland?

Your defense is basically that in this scenario you're no different than the hypothetical .net posters who you repost here to make fun of.

If you want, yeah, I'm fine with that.

A lot more information is more than a few preseason snaps. He is clearly behind other players who are recently coming off ACL injuries. That is a red flag whether you want to believe it or not. Maybe he had a set back I don't know. But I do know I am seeing other players coming back much quicker than he has.

What? Because he played in the second pre-season game and not the first?!?!?! LOL. Riiiiiiiiigggghhhht.

Maybe you didn't notice but Tomsula didn't play a single player coming back off of injury in the first pre-season game. He has repeatedly talked about bringing back injured players slowly as a philosophy (e.g. Bowman hadn't played in two years, didn't play in the first pre-season game, and had a five snap count on him in the second game; maybe he had a setback too :lol: )

I am sure if I looked through your posts I would find quotes where you disliked Dockett and thought he was a dirty player. If I did that, and you have thought that., what has changed since then?

If you're so sure than by all means go back through my post history. You're not going to find it. Right now you're making up something I've never said to argue that it contradicts something current that I've also never said. Cut it out dude.

In any case, on my end this topic is exhausted. If you actually care here are my feelings about Dockett:

I think Dockett was a low risk, low money signing who was intended to bring some veteran leadership to what became a very young position group this off-season. I think another factor is that, as both of them have talked about, Tomsula and Dockett have a long history of seeking other out after games and have a lot of respect for each other.

It's a one year, 3.75 million dollar deal with a team option (no dead money) for the second year at 3.5. The 9ers have a whole tone of cap room. They hope for Dockett to be a situtional interior lineman in the Nickle package. As he's mostly there for veteran leadership, I don't really have any expectations for him. There's no risk, so if he contributes on the field it will be nice, but I think they have other players on the roster who can also contribute in that role if he faulters.

As for him being a "dirty" player, I suppose that's true, but I have never and still don't really care about that type of stuff.

 

[ringless]

Could Dockett be a final 53 cut? Matt Maiocco thinks so.


Defensive line (7)
Glenn Dorsey, Ian Williams, Quinton Dial, Arik Armstead, Tank Carradine, Mike Purcell, Tony Jerod-Eddie
Worth noting: The 49ers guaranteed $2 million of Darnell Dockett's $3.5 million pay, so the odds suggest they will end up keeping him. But Dockett is a little banged up with some cracked cartilage in his ribcage, and he has not played much this summer. This group is loaded, and the 49ers could use some combination of the other players (Dorsey, Dial, Carradine, Armstead, Jerod-Eddie) for the inside pass-rush spots that they envisioned for the 34-year-old Dockett.

 

[Marvin49]

Could Dockett be a final 53 cut? Matt Maiocco thinks so.


Defensive line (7)
Glenn Dorsey, Ian Williams, Quinton Dial, Arik Armstead, Tank Carradine, Mike Purcell, Tony Jerod-Eddie
Worth noting: The 49ers guaranteed $2 million of Darnell Dockett's $3.5 million pay, so the odds suggest they will end up keeping him. But Dockett is a little banged up with some cracked cartilage in his ribcage, and he has not played much this summer. This group is loaded, and the 49ers could use some combination of the other players (Dorsey, Dial, Carradine, Armstead, Jerod-Eddie) for the inside pass-rush spots that they envisioned for the 34-year-old Dockett.

It's possible. I think they might try to trade Jerod-Eddie first tho.

 

[Laloosh]

Tried to gather the energy for a trolling post but it's too early.

Sounds like they're pretty happy with that group, Marv. Any chance you'd be willing to give a short breakdown on who can do what?

I keep looking at the roster but Jim Tom won't put a depth chart on the website.

 

[Marvin49]

Tried to gather the energy for a trolling post but it's too early.

Sounds like they're pretty happy with that group, Marv. Any chance you'd be willing to give a short breakdown on who can do what?

I keep looking at the roster but Jim Tom won't put a depth chart on the website.

Short breakdown of the D-Line?

Sure...

Glenn Dorsey: Was never and never will be the guy people had hoped he'd be coming out of college. Peeps seemed to view him as a Warren Sapp type. When you get past the hype tho you can see him for what he is, a very good run stuffing 3-4 DE/NT.

Ian Williams: Ian has looked good every year in camp and then get hurt early. He broke his ankle vs Seattle two years ago and got hurt again last year. Short, squat, run stuffing NT.

Quinton Dial: Mammoth 3-4 DE/NT. Not all that fast off the ball, but powerful and huge. Better as a pass rusher than I thought he'd be when he was drafted.

These three guys are the likely "starters". Not much pass rush there, but good run stuffing 3 man line. None of them are Justin Smith, but good nonetheless.


Arik Armstead: Raw but powerful. Flashes at times with crazy "put the center on his a$$" power, but is completely invisible at other times. You can see the potential, but he's raw just as advertised. My guess is he may not be active early in the season on gamedays.

Tank Carradine: Tends to too often get pushed out of the play. Is on the ground more often than I'd like. He's really struggled to make the conversion to a 3-4. If you put him on the edge as a 4-3 end, I think he'd be much better. As it is tho, he'll be a 3rd down specialist and he has shown the ability in that role to get pressure on the QB. Id he just has to face one guy and go get the QB, looks pretty good. That's seldom the case tho in a 3-4.

Mike Purcell: Big surprise. I couldn't stand the guy last year, but this year he looks like a different player. He's getting into the backfield, making tackles for loss, isn't getting pushed back...I thought he was camp fodder. Now I think he makes the team.

Tony Jerod-Eddie: I've never been his biggest fan. Team seems kinda high on him though. Just a guy to me. There were rumors last week about him possibly getting traded to Denver (they practiced with Denver several days last week and Jerod-Eddie and Von Miller are good friends). No idea if that happens or not.

Darnell Dockett: No need for me to say much. Plan is to pair him with Carradine on third downs to generate pass rush.

Biggest issue with this group is really a lack of said pass rush which is why I kinda doubt Dockett gets the axe. Most of the pass rush is going to have to come from the LBs which is why losing Aldon stings so bad. Looks like they'll blitz MUCH, MUCH more often then they did in the past, particularly by Navorro who has 2 sacks vs Denver.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Tried to watch him and focus on his plays since he is with a new team. I know its only preseason but geeze a poor showing. It looked like the players he was going against was able to go lower than him and get under his pads almost standing him up on a few plays. He had no push what so ever and I do believe it was because he wasn't able to get leverage. But if he plays all season like that coming in on 3rd downs and some 2nd he is going to be a liability.

Dude's 34, what did you expect.

As a lifelong Hawk fan, I can tell you one thing...................you never want to be the LAST team a good player plays for, cause it's never good.

Franco Harris, Jerry Rice, we've had our share of stiffs on our roster just collecting their last paycheck before being put out to pasture.

Dockett was a good player, now he's just another should have retired last year guy playing on a bad team.

 

[Laloosh]

Thanks Marv. Brooks has provided a lot of that LB blitz you mentioned. Particularly against SEA. Is he playing or is he in the dog house?

 

[Marvin49]

Tried to watch him and focus on his plays since he is with a new team. I know its only preseason but geeze a poor showing. It looked like the players he was going against was able to go lower than him and get under his pads almost standing him up on a few plays. He had no push what so ever and I do believe it was because he wasn't able to get leverage. But if he plays all season like that coming in on 3rd downs and some 2nd he is going to be a liability.

Dude's 34, what did you expect.

As a lifelong Hawk fan, I can tell you one thing...................you never want to be the LAST team a good player plays for, cause it's never good.

Franco Harris, Jerry Rice, we've had our share of stiffs on our roster just collecting their last paycheck before being put out to pasture.

Dockett was a good player, now he's just another should have retired last year guy playing on a bad team.

Entirely possible...and why I'm glad the plan was to use him as a 3rd down specialist. Limiting his snaps.

Niners have had some success and some failure signing an aging vet, but they seem to get one every single year.

Moss, Boldin, Braylon Edwards, Dockett...just Baalkes MO.

 

[Marvin49]

Thanks Marv. Brooks has provided a lot of that LB blitz you mentioned. Particularly against SEA. Is he playing or is he in the dog house?

That is a big unknown right now.

They do have some guys they like as OLBs in Aaron Lynch, Eli Harold, and Corey Lemonier (last of which I'm not thrilled with), but losing Brooks would hurt.

Honestly, of all the offseason losses this year, the last two are the toughest to swallow. Anthony Davis isn't an all-pro, but he is a very good RT and they really don't have a good answer at the position. Jonathan Martin playing that position last year was a nightmare.

Then of course Aldon. No answer there. Losing him was huge. HUGE.

 

[ringless]

Tried to watch him and focus on his plays since he is with a new team. I know its only preseason but geeze a poor showing. It looked like the players he was going against was able to go lower than him and get under his pads almost standing him up on a few plays. He had no push what so ever and I do believe it was because he wasn't able to get leverage. But if he plays all season like that coming in on 3rd downs and some 2nd he is going to be a liability.

Dude's 34, what did you expect.

As a lifelong Hawk fan, I can tell you one thing...................you never want to be the LAST team a good player plays for, cause it's never good.

Franco Harris, Jerry Rice, we've had our share of stiffs on our roster just collecting their last paycheck before being put out to pasture.

Dockett was a good player, now he's just another should have retired last year guy playing on a bad team.

Entirely possible...and why I'm glad the plan was to use him as a 3rd down specialist. Limiting his snaps.

Niners have had some success and some failure signing an aging vet, but they seem to get one every single year.

Moss, Boldin, Braylon Edwards, Dockett...just Baalkes MO.

Arians and Keim do the same things. Bring in Vets on a 1 year deal and for the most part they seem to have worked out. But there are always some that don't. I don't think their is anything wrong with it when its a 1 year deal. As you explained Dockets basically is since they can easily opt out of the second year.

 

[Laloosh]

Thanks Marv. Brooks has provided a lot of that LB blitz you mentioned. Particularly against SEA. Is he playing or is he in the dog house?

That is a big unknown right now.

They do have some guys they like as OLBs in Aaron Lynch, Eli Harold, and Corey Lemonier (last of which I'm not thrilled with), but losing Brooks would hurt.

Honestly, of all the offseason losses this year, the last two are the toughest to swallow. Anthony Davis isn't an all-pro, but he is a very good RT and they really don't have a good answer at the position. Jonathan Martin playing that position last year was a nightmare.

Then of course Aldon. No answer there. Losing him was huge. HUGE.

Well, the wait will be over soon. I'm sure some will rise to the top and prove to be the next big thing. For your sake and the Niner fans I actually know, I do wish you guys well. As much as I love to torture them, I enjoy the competitive games and having two really good teams in the division is healthy for both sides.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Newsflash for both of you dicks - Every team does that.

Someone needs a hug.

Not true, usually it's the bad teams that do this............because they're desperate. When's the last old stiff the Hawks, Packers or Patriots signed and kept? If we do sign an aging vet that can't hack it in camp, we cut him before the season starts, i.e. Winfield, Winston.

 

[Marvin49]

Dude's 34, what did you expect.

As a lifelong Hawk fan, I can tell you one thing...................you never want to be the LAST team a good player plays for, cause it's never good.

Franco Harris, Jerry Rice, we've had our share of stiffs on our roster just collecting their last paycheck before being put out to pasture.

Dockett was a good player, now he's just another should have retired last year guy playing on a bad team.

Entirely possible...and why I'm glad the plan was to use him as a 3rd down specialist. Limiting his snaps.

Niners have had some success and some failure signing an aging vet, but they seem to get one every single year.

Moss, Boldin, Braylon Edwards, Dockett...just Baalkes MO.

Arians and Keim do the same things. Bring in Vets on a 1 year deal and for the most part they seem to have worked out. But there are always some that don't. I don't think their is anything wrong with it when its a 1 year deal. As you explained Dockets basically is since they can easily opt out of the second year.

Newsflash for both of you dicks - Every team does that.

Didn't say otherwise.

Plus....really? Wow.

 

[Marvin49]

Newsflash for both of you dicks - Every team does that.

Someone needs a hug.

Not true, usually it's the bad teams that do this............because they're desperate. When's the last old stiff the Hawks, Packers or Patriots signed and kept? If we do sign an aging vet that can't hack it in camp, we cut him before the season starts, i.e. Winfield, Winston.

Well that's some BS right there. LOL.

If a team gives a big contract to an aging vet, that's what bad teams do. If they are giving small prove it contracts to aging players, that's pretty standard.

Kevin Williams anyone?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Newsflash for both of you dicks - Every team does that.

Someone needs a hug.

Not true, usually it's the bad teams that do this............because they're desperate. When's the last old stiff the Hawks, Packers or Patriots signed and kept? If we do sign an aging vet that can't hack it in camp, we cut him before the season starts, i.e. Winfield, Winston.

Well that's some BS right there. LOL.

If a team gives a big contract to an aging vet, that's what bad teams do. If they are giving small prove it contracts to aging players, that's pretty standard.

Kevin Williams anyone?

Kevin Williams was arguably the most consistent lineman on the Hawks last year. Bad example.

My point is if a team is deep and loaded with talent, they don't have to hang on to guys like Dockett for 3.25M hoping he recaptures some of his glory days.