Finally, we can begin the process of renovating this team

[jeremiah]

I think Pete was a great coach, he came to the NFL. Saw something no one else was doing and built a great defense, one of the all time greats and had some good success with it. The biggest problem Pete has is what happens to a lot of people that become great, the get drunk on their own success and develop a ego and think they can do no wrong.

Pete wants to keep doing what worked in the past, but that is not how the NFL works. You have to adapt and change to have long term success, work with what you have in players and adapt to them not the other way around. To get the most out of them and scheme game plans against each opponent differently. Not try and force your system against them when it might not match up well.

Pete could be a great coach again, but I think it is to late. I don't think his ego would let him completely change and take his hands off and focus on just being a HC. Sad to see but that is how I feel about him. He reminds me of some of the hollywood directors that made amazing movies when I was a kid and then turn out crap later and still think what they do is amazing.

That is a decent analysis. He has the tools within himself, but he came to believe that he had found THE perfect way. The problem is there is no perfect way. Discipline wins championships, that is Petes biggest flaw. His second is hypocrisy. He doesn't treat all players the same. ALWAYS COMPETE is a mantra over the door, not a bedrock principle anymore.. His third? Stuck on strong run game to set up the pass, drain the clock down and win at the end.

The best teams put pressure on for 60 minutes, scoring quickly, slowly, whichever way they can, but keep the O line cognizant that they MUST run block as well as protect the QB. You don't want a short game, unless you are AHEAD.

 

[James in PA]

I am not totally convinced that Pete is the number one problem. Sure this season has been frustrating as hell, but he has been a consistent winner up until now and I see a team that is still playing very hard for him. RW must shoulder some of the blame. His cap hit is ridiculous for how inconsistent he's been the past couple seasons. Donald and the Rams are clearly inside his head that's always going to be a problem as long as he's a member of the Seahawks. A change of scenery might be best for everyone involved.


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[Threedee]

Trade Wilson for two to three first rounders, draft offensive linemen and sign Aaron Rogers, easy peasy...lol

Let's say we have completely lost faith in Wilson, and we believe that Pete is capable of building an effective OL (and hiring a suitable coach). I don't think Rodgers is interested in coming here (nor do we want to engage in the bidding war).

 

[IndyHawk]

We missed our window to get a haul for Russ. Nobody is going to want him on his current deal.

You people need to stop smoking crack. Denver would love him. On current deal. Just more proof...people overly speak out of their ass on this site.

:lol: :snack:

 

[HawkOG70’]

Imagine Justin Fields and 2 firsts. There's a future franchise quarterback, and hopefully 2 roughneck guards that'll contain the bull rush.

But yeah I agree with Jeremiah 100%

 

[chihawk]

I am not totally convinced that Pete is the number one problem. Sure this season has been frustrating as hell, but he has been a consistent winner up until now and I see a team that is still playing very hard for him. RW must shoulder some of the blame. His cap hit is ridiculous for how inconsistent he's been the past couple seasons. Donald and the Rams are clearly inside his head that's always going to be a problem as long as he's a member of the Seahawks. A change of scenery might be best for everyone involved.
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The problem is that PC's philosophy doesn't match the skill set of the players of the team. You either have to get rid of PC and find a coach that can better take advantage of the players on the roster or keep PC and do a significant turnover of the roster to put the right pieces in place for his system to work.

 

[scutterhawk]

This site is at an all time high of dumb assery. I'm willing to say russ can go somewhere else. He is hardly washed and would thrive in a place like Denver.

How do I know...it is all they talk about here...getting rodgers or russ. All over the radio. Wishing and hoping. With how you guys dismiss him...I'd f$#king love for him to come here and prove you guys wrong.

I will be on the seahawks suck wagon with everyone else, cuz I'm still seahawks everyday. It would be good to see him tell all the haters to eat $h!t.

You're unwell.

Says guy following me in threads. I'm sure you are the leader of most head strong, sophisticated and intellectual f$#k sticks on this site. That I'm sure. I said bye already once. Be ghost terd baby.

You're popping into every thread to defend your little guy. Nobody's following you anywhere.

You've got a real obsession with the guy - clearly primarily a Russ fan to the point of attacking any other player on the team to excuse the poor play of the guy.

I don't know. I'm a grown adult and I would feel weird if I were that into some particular football player. Losing my sh!t at anyone who even mildly critiqued him. Weird sh!t, man. Questionable sh!t.

He's an avid Fan, & you ain't, so there is that.
Some of y'all like going all 'Attack Mode' on fans of Russell Wilson. "Weird sh!t, man." "Questionable sh!t." MAN :177692:

 

[DarkVictory23]

Lets forget about Russ for right now and get down to the real root of the problem and thats Pete Carroll. Nothing is going to change as long as he is there. Thats where the changes need to start.

The problem IS PC and has always been Pete Carroll. He was and maybe still is a great accumulator of talent, he is a piss poor coach. I make that evaluation by the very yardstick that Don Shula was measured by way back in the stone age. He can take his players, and beat yours. He can take your players and beat his. PC could never do that, Bill Belicik could do that, and still can. The Coach of the Ravens seems to have some of that too. He has excelled with 3 QBs, winning Super Bowls with two of them, yet jettisoning one for a future star. The secret isn't to find a franchise QB and hold onto him forever, it is to use him until you decide there is better. Just like for a WR, RB, O lineman or Free Safety and Corner. The biggest sin on the Seahawks was not losing to the Pats in the Superb Owl. It was signing RW to a big contract before they milked his rookie deal to the Nth degree. Rewards lead to less effort, the promise of a reward leads to maximum effort.

In that vein, the Ravens would be wise to keep their current QB under contract only until he gets close to 28, trade him off and rent another on the up and coming. The contracts these players command destroy teams. The Patriots kept on winning because Coach was in control, not Brady. Tom Brady knew this, and kept his contract demands reasonable. You can bet the players around him knew and appreciated that, especially the lower paid O linemen.

I agree with some of what you say here but I think you are probably giving the Pats approach too much credit. I don't think most teams can get away with such a high level of stinginess to their players and find consistent success. Pats had the unique combo of Tom Brady (a QB with the looks to land a bunch of outside endorsements plus a wife who is independently wealthy, so who cares if he sacrifices a bit on his NFL deal) and Belichick, who has a rare level of talent and dedication to coaching.

Most teams who get a reputation for being that stingy are going to need really good talent evaluators on their staff (like Carroll) because they are going to have a hard time attracting vets. Pats got a rep as being the team you could go to if you're desperate to win a championship, so they could attract players of that caliber. If you don't already have a rep as being a good spot to land a 'ship... PLUS nobody expects any loyalty and/or money, what is your selling point, exactly?


All that said... Russ's contract has proven to be a big mistake. He simply isn't producing the results a contract like that entails for how it handicaps us money wise for other positions. Further, I think, in retrospect, it's clear that Russ's talent wasn't as key to our success as some of the other things we had going, both on offense and defense. Russ was an important piece, but clearly not singularly important.

Some of this isn't all on the Seahawks management, though. The market for QB contracts went completely freakin' nuts at basically the perfect moment for Russ. What we gave him was basically expected even though it should have been seen as extraordinary. When other teams are giving huge contracts to the likes of Joe Flacco and Kirk Cousins, these kind of deals are to be expected for a Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers.

 

[xray]

Renovating always started with a sledge hammer , as far as I can remember .

 

[Smellyman]

New Coach, co-ordinators, and trade away all the stars you need to. Rebuild this team from the bottom up. Keep Lockett and DK, a couple of young defenders and O linemen. We need to rebuild before we find the right QB to get us back to the promised land.

This is the way, but DK should be on the market too

 

[Smellyman]

w/o this he is a very average QB.
[youtube]OiV2L_ilK-c[/youtube]

 

[olyfan63]

I am not totally convinced that Pete is the number one problem. Sure this season has been frustrating as hell, but he has been a consistent winner up until now and I see a team that is still playing very hard for him. RW must shoulder some of the blame. His cap hit is ridiculous for how inconsistent he's been the past couple seasons. Donald and the Rams are clearly inside his head that's always going to be a problem as long as he's a member of the Seahawks. A change of scenery might be best for everyone involved.
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The problem is that PC's philosophy doesn't match the skill set of the players of the team. You either have to get rid of PC and find a coach that can better take advantage of the players on the roster or keep PC and do a significant turnover of the roster to put the right pieces in place for his system to work.

That's where I am too.

This current Seahawks team has to have an elite, eraser-level defense to advance in the playoffs and legit contend for another Owl. That 2014 defense had to erase 5 turnovers in the NFCCG vs the Packers, and it took the help of a couple miracle plays to beat the Packers in that game. The 2013 defense came up with "the tip" at the moment we needed it, to get to the Super Bowl, and we had a nice Lynch TD run mixed in there as well IIRC. We need the modern-day equivalent of the 2013-2014 defenses for this team to be a real threat.

Russell is what he is. He will win about half the games, beating weaker opponents that don't have the players and scheme to neutralize his QB Superpowers. The other half the games, it will take an elite defense and strong running game to make the difference, with Russell doing a good job as a game manager. The formula isn't really that different since SB48 and SB49, the biggest difference is the amount of money tied up in the QB contract, and the result of not having an additional 5-ish difference-maker talents on the roster. The other difference is the phenomenal drafts of the early Carroll era; the team hasn't been that successful in the draft the last few years. Finally, FO needs to stop making crap trades for free agents who are washed up and/or don't fit the Seahawks scheme, and especially stop overpaying like in the Jamal Adams trade. Draft picks on rookie contracts were the bedrock of the Hawks SB48 and SB49 teams, with a few strategic free agents/low cost trades added to the mix, e.g., Avril, Bennett, Clemons, etc.

One seeming absolute is that some or all coaches on the defensive side must go, I'll just say KNJ because I don't really know many of the other coaches. The DL line coach, Clint Hurtt IIRC, seems to have done a decent job.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Imagine Justin Fields and 2 firsts. There's a future franchise quarterback, and hopefully 2 roughneck guards that'll contain the bull rush.

But yeah I agree with Jeremiah 100%

Justin Fields looks terrible and will never be anything more than mediocre.

 

[jeremiah]

New Coach, co-ordinators, and trade away all the stars you need to. Rebuild this team from the bottom up. Keep Lockett and DK, a couple of young defenders and O linemen. We need to rebuild before we find the right QB to get us back to the promised land.

This is the way, but DK should be on the market too

If you are to build a winner, ALL options should be considered. I just think that next year when the rebuild is flopping, you could get a pretty good windfall for DK in the next draft. He is a star you could feed 150 targets, and move him out. In my mind, he should be playing TE. He needs to learn to be physical. Make him block, Block Block block and leak him out. Nobody will do that though, his ego would force him to retire or howl to the press.

 

[keasley45]

https://12thmanrising.com/2021/12/23/ru ... ges/amp/1/

Some interesting options posed here

 

[hawkfan68]

Came across this article. While I don't totally agree that Waldron should be let go after this season, there are some really good points made to separate. Waldron's inexperience as an OC and full-time play caller has factored into the issues the Seahawks are facing on offense. Couple that with Andy Dickerson who is the run game coordinator for an non-existent run offense. This is where i disagree with the author as he said the Seahawks run game is the healthiest part of the offense. No it's not and it hasn't been for the most part of two seasons.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...like-the-ideal-fall-guy/ar-AAS5Wec?li=BBnbfcL

 

[NJlargent]

If we toss Waldron as the scapegoat and keep Carroll then we deserve to continue to lose.

 

[chris98251]

If Pete is gone so will most the staff, Waldron will be a sacrificial Lamb either way..............

 

[James in PA]

The Waldron experiment has been a complete and utter failure. This offense is offensive. He's gone, either way. Rams stuck it to us yet again.


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[seahawks08]

I would build through the defense first and keep the OC for one more season. If we can build by shoring up CB’s and pass rush instead of more line backers, that would make a difference. For that to happen all coaches who influence or hold on to the current player personnel/ scheme/philosophy must go which would be Pete as well. I would bring in Dan Quin as HC, keep Shane Waldron and focus on putting those critical pieces with youth and speed. I would assemble some killer junior coaches who can come in as assistants to build the defense. I will keep the Soecial teams coach or promote him. I will keep JS but rethink the front office. I think lot of the decisions were more Pete’s. If Russ is unhappy or wanting to run the team, I will divorce that relationship and get some trade value and a bridge QB until we get one through 2023 draft that can be coached up.