"Game Manager" vs. Future HOFer

brimsalabim

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I know that we don’t want to expose him to needless hits but it stands to reason that we could see even more running from Russell next season. Defenses will be left thin attempting to account for the other guys and I expect this will open up a lot of green space. We also have a stock pile of competent back ups at QB.
 

scutterhawk

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Bottom line, Russell Wilson is the most 'Efficient' Quarterback in the League.
There's not a doubt in my mind that his game study, and preparation includes him breaking down his every play, pushing his ego aside, and looking for ways to improve on his own efficiency.
We Seahawks fans are damned lucky to have 'Team First', Russell Wilson leading the Offense.
 

CamanoIslandJQ

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Why doesn't the fact that RW came back in the 4-th quarter to win games 5 times last season ever get mentioned?
That's nearly 1/3 of the regular season games. Game manager my ass.

The game manager handle has become a derogatory term used for a guy who can only manage games and facilitate the other "stars" on the team. That isn't RW, he's much, much more than just a game manager as we that follow the Seahawks know. Superb Owl, here we come again and next time we'll win by 50 instead of..... only 35 points.
 
A

Anonymous

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SacHawk2.0":26numwq2 said:
Russell is the Magic Johnson of the NFL

Hmmm, he might be the Magic Johnson now, but I say Russ is going to be the Cal Ripken Jr. of the NFL.

:mrgreen:
 

hawker84

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People who don't view Wilson as a possible legit future HOF'er candidate, just don't want to see it. No other way to explain it. beat mannings rookie record, has better numbers first two years than almost anyone, already won a SB. yep just a game manager. My buddy who is a die hard Hawks fan had the balls to say he's a slightly better Trent Dilfer, my rebuttle was, discussion over next subject... He simply doesn't want to believe we have a true star under center.
 

ZagHawk

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It's funny how I keep convincing myself that RW had a Sophomore slump, but the numbers don't lie, he did better this year than last year (maybe down 1% for completion percentage).

I guess the thing is, last year RW had a rough start, then finished amazing.

This year RW had an okay start, played really well, then had a mini slump, then finished good, and my head was comparing every game this season to how he finished last season.
 

ZagHawk

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hawker84":1fdvysde said:
People who don't view Wilson as a possible legit future HOF'er candidate, just don't want to see it. No other way to explain it. beat mannings rookie record, has better numbers first two years than almost anyone, already won a SB. yep just a game manager. My buddy who is a die hard Hawks fan had the balls to say he's a slightly better Trent Dilfer, my rebuttle was, discussion over next subject... He simply doesn't want to believe we have a true star under center.

This 3rd season, is going to make or break a lot of doubters. I think he's played amazing up to this point (how can I deny it), but I'll admit I'm still on the fence about declaring him a future HOF'er. Just because of that mid season slump he had, and yes I really want to see how he performs as less and less is put on Marshawn and more and more is put on RW.
 

Seahawk Sailor

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brimsalabim":3lfecbw9 said:
One of the topics on this mornings NFL AM show on the NFL network was "What does Russell Wilson have to do to get better?" The consensus among the panel was nothing. I think it was Shawn Merriman who pointed out that the players around him needed to be more consistent and some one else added that the offense could allow him to take more chances with his throws but every one allowed that Russell is running the offense exactly as he has been coached.

While I think he's performing as well as any of the top tier quarterbacks, there is always room for improvement. As mentioned above, his ball security can be an issue when he scrambles. It's not bad, but obviously not perfect.

Another area he can improve is his tendency to overthrow targets when he's under pressure or hasn't settled down yet. We saw this as recently as his first few throws in the Super Bowl. Again, it's not bad, and he adjusts much better than before, but still could see improvement there.

But the sheer fact that we're talking about a couple small areas like this is pretty incredible. He's already on a high trajectory, and after only his second year. If he continues as is, he's going to have a pretty stellar career, and it's not hard to imagine him as an eventual Hall of Fame player.
 

bmorepunk

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Hawknballs":3nkw3zdx said:
bmorepunk":3nkw3zdx said:
Hall of Fame after two seasons! New record!

Maybe my title was misleading? Wilson is the quote "game manager" - future HOFer was in reference to Manning.

Obviously if wilson just does what he's been doing for the next 10 years he's a lock but I wont make the claim just yet.

No, I understood. I was just being ridiculous about the talk of a second year guy to someone who's been doing it for a decade and a half at a good to high level. I don't let the "game manager" statements bother me; if Wilson keeps playing at a high level the recognition will be there. Manning didn't really start turning into Manning until the 2002 season.
 

WilsonMVP

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Attyla the Hawk":1zjiscvm said:
brimsalabim":1zjiscvm said:
One of the topics on this mornings NFL AM show on the NFL network was "What does Russell Wilson have to do to get better?" The consensus among the panel was nothing. I think it was Shawn Merriman who pointed out that the players around him needed to be more consistent and some one else added that the offense could allow him to take more chances with his throws but every one allowed that Russell is running the offense exactly as he has been coached.


I'd even take that last comment further.

Russell is playing the position exactly as every team in the league should WANT to play it. It's not a knock on him in my mind at all that he doesn't put up ridiculous passing stats. It's on all of the other teams that they don't build their teams to play this way to begin with.

And it's not even about talent around him. It's starts and ends with the will as an organization to commit to a balanced attack. So few teams seek to achieve that balance. They talk about it all the time but in almost every case they are merely empty words. Even when they do infuse talent on the offensive line and at the running back position. Where the rubber meets the road -- team's falter in their will to run the ball.

Winning at the QB position is significantly founded on the principle of 'not losing'. We see it stressed all the time that he's careful with the football. As if that's some kind of retardation of his progression as a QB. But the game is replete with players -- even great players -- who very often times don't master the art of not losing games. I was fortunate to live in Wisconsin during Favre's SB runs and even a HOF player of his caliber would frequently lose games of his own accord. Other than the Cards game at home last season, I can't recall a game where I felt like Russell lost a game we should have won. And even in that game, he put us in a position late in the game to win.

From the outside, people tend to blame his lack of statistical success on 'how he's coached'. As if it's a question of restraining the play calling to not expose his deficiencies. I don't see that at all. He's playing the game as I would expect we'd demand even if he were a 10 year veteran.

And quite clearly, I see outsiders cite his mobility and scramble throws as some deficiency of his as a pocket passer (yes I'm looking at you Kurt Warner). But the reality is, it is merely a pressure avoidance measure. It is no different than a stoic immobile pocket passer simply throwing the ball incomplete early to avoid sacks. Something that one can't really measure like you can scrambles. The difference being that Wilson's scrambles to extend plays more often results in positive gains. Whereas throw aways simply show up as incompletions on a stat sheet indistinguishable from other forms of incompletion.

Even here many of us, I believe rightly, will cite incidents where Wilson's lack of height does come into play in the form of missed open receivers. But when you look at other tall QBs, they miss open WRs all the time. Even in the SB, Peyton missed close to 10 big plays -- not seeing open guys. Kaepernick's play to lose the NFCCG was another example of missing wide open receivers. It simply happens. Wilson's ability to make completions on the move more than compensates for the instances above the NFL average where he misses WRs because of sight limitations. It's a component of 'what he can do' that separates and elevates his production above and beyond his physical limitations.

Overall, I would agree. I don't see him needing to remake himself in order to get better. He plays the game as it should be played right now. While I still expect him to really blossom this year -- the reality is he just needs to keep doing what he's already doing. He doesn't *have* to get better. And yet I expect he will get a lot better. But I don't expect him to take more chances. Merely capitalize more on the chances he's already being afforded.

I agree completely...They were saying Thomas was too far up on one of the plays in the first half and manning just flat out missed the long completion that might have been a TD or a LONG gain.
 

WilsonMVP

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ZagHawk":30sa87wo said:
It's funny how I keep convincing myself that RW had a Sophomore slump, but the numbers don't lie, he did better this year than last year (maybe down 1% for completion percentage).

I guess the thing is, last year RW had a rough start, then finished amazing.

This year RW had an okay start, played really well, then had a mini slump, then finished good, and my head was comparing every game this season to how he finished last season.

I think alot of people have this view because of the last half of the season. The 6 games before the superbowl he only had 5TD and 3Int...with 2 losses and the offense was not looking very good. That was however @SF, @NYG, ARZ, STL, NO, SF. Those arent exactly weak defenses he went against. Going into those last 4 regular season games he was 22TD/6int 1 loss.
 

hawk45

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Wilson can only be challenged by those rare Ds who can get push up the middle and also have the horses at DE and LB to keep him from getting outside the pocket.

If you can't get pressure, as in the Saints when they played at our house during the season, toast.

If you can get pressure but can't keep Wilson from hitting the easy button and hopping outside the pocket for clear sightlines, toast. I remember watching the Superbowl and thinking the entire time it was just too easy for Wilson after facing the Niners the week before. Denver couldn't keep contain, and Wilson's accuracy outside the pocket is as good as his accuracy inside a clean pocket.

And even with those teams like the Niners and Panthers with the LBs and DEs to be a little bit kryptonite for Russ will struggle with him with a healthy Percy. A couple of dump-offs that go for fitty and they'll need a bucket and mop for the opposing DC on the sidelines when their heads explode.
 

Pandion Haliaetus

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I did something like this a while back but the graph is much sexier, I'll just leave this here:

The Original Post (plus Sack Totals)

Manning: 1108 Pass Att., 52 TDs, 43 INTs, 36 SACKs
Wilson......: 800 Pass Att., 52 TDs, 19 INTs, 77 SACKs

Didn't Manning have Marvin Harrison as well?

Is it still too early to call Wilson a future HOFer

The Extreme Edition:
PEYTON MANNING VS RUSSELL WILSON

1st Pick, 1998....(DRAFT)....75th Pick, 2012
6'5.....................(HEIGHT).....................5'11
233.....................(WEIGHT).....................205

1108............(PASS ATTEMPTS).............800 (-308)
59.4..............(COMPLETION %)..............63.6 (+4.2)
7874.............(PASSING YARDS)...........6475 (-1399)
7.2 ...............(YARDS PER ATT.).............8.1 (+0.9)

52..................(TOUCHDOWNS)................52
43..................(INTERCEPTIONS)..............19 (-24)
36..................(TIMES SACKED)................77 (+ 41)
80.1..................(QB RATING)...............100.9 (+20.8)

50................(RUSH ATTEMPTS)............190 (+140)
135..............(RUSHING YARDS)...........1028 (+893)
3.1.............(YARDS PER CARRY).............5.4 (+2.3)
2...................(RUSHING TDS)......................5 (+3)
9.......................(FUMBLES)........................16 (+7)
7..................(FUMBLES LOST).....................8 (+1)

3-13, 13-3 ......(W-L RECORD)......11-5, 13-3 (+ 8 Wins)
7..............(4TH QTR COMEBACKS)..............7
8.............(GAME WINNING DRIVES)............9 (+1)

The Ultimate Difference:

Wilson has +3 Total TDs, -23 Total Turnovers, -506 Total Yards w/ -168 Total Attempts whilst being Sacked 41 more times than Peyton Manning.

Manning's Key Support:
WR, Marvin Harrison (HoFer)
RB/WR, Marshall Faulk ('98, HoFer)
RB/WR, Edgerrian James ('99, Potential HoFer?)
WRs, Jerome Pathon ('98), Terrance Wilkins ('99)
TEs, Marcus Pollard, Ken Dilger

Wilson's Key Support:
WR, Golden Tate, Sidney Rice (mostly '12)
RB, Marshawn Lynch
WRs, Doug Baldwin (mostly '13), Jermaine Kearse ('13)
TE, Zach Miller, Anthony McCoy ('12), Luke Willson ('13)
 

HawkWow

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The greatest QB to ever play this game was a "game manager" (eeek).

Right now, Wilson is more Young than Montana, but he is already growing out of that. No knock on the mighty Mormon. Wilson's vision, as well as his calm demeanor, are Joe-like. Montana could scramble when he had to, but was smart enough, talented enough, to preserve himself by distributing the ball to playmakers around him while using the clock to the advantage of his team. Not every NFL QB has that. I believe Wilson does.

Superior game management = wins + longevity. He will need both to ever see Canton. How many QBs are in the HOF that were not great game managers?
 

PlinytheCenter

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I really don't give a damn what the uniformed call Russell. I'll just sit back and watch this kid work his magic for the next 10+ years and laugh my ass off. GO HAWKS!!!
 

kpak76

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To the couple of folks on here that are kind of criticizings Wilsons game: No one is perfect, no one plays perfect in every scenerio. All the little things you are criticizing he has already shown he can overcome. But since he is human, he is prone to the occasional lapse. To the guy who doesn't want to call him a future HOF: While I agree with that statement, I dont agree with the reason why you came up with that statement. Even HOF players have mini-slumps every now and again. And during that "mini-slump" your talking about we only lost 1 game. The real rezson why he isn't a HOF is clearly obvious. He has only palyed 2 seasons.
 

kpak76

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hawker84":vl69pwkw said:
People who don't view Wilson as a possible legit future HOF'er candidate, just don't want to see it. No other way to explain it. beat mannings rookie record, has better numbers first two years than almost anyone, already won a SB. yep just a game manager. My buddy who is a die hard Hawks fan had the balls to say he's a slightly better Trent Dilfer, my rebuttle was, discussion over next subject... He simply doesn't want to believe we have a true star under center.

Everyone should have an opinion but that doesn't make yours right with it. Your friend who calls Wilson a slightly better Dilfer should seriously have his fan card taken away. I am not sure why you didn't do it right then and there. Tell him he needs to go root for the Donocs then and you can have endless joy of watching him suffer as Manning chokes it up again during playoff time.
 

scutterhawk

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ZagHawk":1r0t85gj said:
hawker84":1r0t85gj said:
People who don't view Wilson as a possible legit future HOF'er candidate, just don't want to see it. No other way to explain it. beat mannings rookie record, has better numbers first two years than almost anyone, already won a SB. yep just a game manager. My buddy who is a die hard Hawks fan had the balls to say he's a slightly better Trent Dilfer, my rebuttle was, discussion over next subject... He simply doesn't want to believe we have a true star under center.

This 3rd season, is going to make or break a lot of doubters. I think he's played amazing up to this point (how can I deny it), but I'll admit I'm still on the fence about declaring him a future HOF'er. Just because of that mid season slump he had, and yes I really want to see how he performs as less and less is put on Marshawn and more and more is put on RW.
With all the injuries on the O-Line, and Marshawn held in check in several games, all the crappy leaks in protection, he gets to 13 & 3 in the regular Season, goes on to win three more in a row, outclassing Mr. Perfect Quarterback in every phase of SB 48, and you'r still on the fence? LOL, Okay :mrgreen:
 

HawkWow

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A 'slightly better Dilfer"? What the....What would inspire anyone to even make that connection? People really do not understand the term game manager...at all. Calling Dilfer a game manager was about the highest compliment he could have been paid. In his case, it was a nice way of saying "he didn't win us any games but he didn't lose us any either". That is not the definition of game manager.
 

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