"Game Manager" vs. Future HOFer

[sc85sis]

It's not totally on him because there were a fair number of times when no one was open, but I'd like to see Russ get rid of it a little quicker at times. Some of those sacks occurred because he held onto the ball too long.

I definitely think he can still improve simply due to the increase in his experience and because he works so hard at preparing.

 

[rideaducati]

One of the topics on this mornings NFL AM show on the NFL network was "What does Russell Wilson have to do to get better?" The consensus among the panel was nothing. I think it was Shawn Merriman who pointed out that the players around him needed to be more consistent and some one else added that the offense could allow him to take more chances with his throws but every one allowed that Russell is running the offense exactly as he has been coached.

About the ONLY thing I could say Wilson needs to work on (obviously every QB is always working on improving in every way) is ball security when he's scrambling around the pocket. He had quite a few fumbles last season, and especially the fumble to start the NFC championship game was definitely not good. He had multiple fumbles in the game against the cardinals. Much of that was due to pressure with a beat-up O-line at the time but Russell knows as much or more than we do about the state of the O-line and needed to consider that and up his ball security to compensate. He is known for having large hands, not just relative to his height but relative to your average NFL QB, so I'm not concerned he can't improve this.

There was also some criticism for missing on throws early in games, but again - can't really knock him for this. As much as I love our receiving corps, one thing it hasn't been is consistent as far as personnel and their positioning due to missing guys like Harvin and losing a Sidney Rice. It makes sense that he would A.) Need some time to calibrate his throws early on and B.) throw away from defenders even if it means an incompletion.

As far as taking more risks in the passing game, I don't know if i want him to take more. One of the things I love about Wilson (which also unfortunately contributes to the "game manager" aspect of his reputation) is his ability to understand the game situation and not take unnecessary risks.

I really think the one guy who's career and stats we should be looking at is Drew Brees:

http://www.nfl.com/player/drewbrees/2504775/careerstats

These "Short" QB's are only going to get better as they go along because all of their learning, repetition, and practice is going to help them compensate for the shortcomings they will face in the pocket. For the record I've never thought Wilson was "too short" to be a good QB - I watched him play several games in college and while I don't want to toot my own horn or sound like I know what I'm talking about, it was always annoying to me when people would say X player is too short to play. That's like saying someone who has a horrible singing voice makes a crappy musician. If you're a great guitar player or have excellent timing on the drums, who cares if you suck at signing?

Brees is a perfect example of learning and growing and just getting so damn good at the other aspects of your game, nobody cares or talks about how tall you are. To be perfectly honest I didn't even know that Drew Brees was considered so short until we drafted Wilson and the conversation got going.

I'd like to see Russell step UP and through the rush instead of running back when scrambling. There are holes to step through, but he bails out backwards too often.

 

[rideaducati]

People who don't view Wilson as a possible legit future HOF'er candidate, just don't want to see it. No other way to explain it. beat mannings rookie record, has better numbers first two years than almost anyone, already won a SB. yep just a game manager. My buddy who is a die hard Hawks fan had the balls to say he's a slightly better Trent Dilfer, my rebuttle was, discussion over next subject... He simply doesn't want to believe we have a true star under center.

This 3rd season, is going to make or break a lot of doubters. I think he's played amazing up to this point (how can I deny it), but I'll admit I'm still on the fence about declaring him a future HOF'er. Just because of that mid season slump he had, and yes I really want to see how he performs as less and less is put on Marshawn and more and more is put on RW.

What mid season slump are you freaking talking about? Russell's ONLY supposedly bad games came against the top 5 defenses he faced. All his other games he did what was asked of him and did it well.

 

[Tech Worlds]

It's not totally on him because there were a fair number of times when no one was open, but I'd like to see Russ get rid of it a little quicker at times. Some of those sacks occurred because he held onto the ball too long.

I definitely think he can still improve simply due to the increase in his experience and because he works so hard at preparing.

Blame your buddy Pete for that. He has beat it into Russell's head not to turn the ball over. As a result he rarely throws it until he's 100 percent confident it won't be picked. This leads to late throws, lack of yac, and sacks.

 

[LudwigsDrummer]

It's not totally on him because there were a fair number of times when no one was open, but I'd like to see Russ get rid of it a little quicker at times. Some of those sacks occurred because he held onto the ball too long.

I definitely think he can still improve simply due to the increase in his experience and because he works so hard at preparing.

Blame your buddy Pete for that. He has beat it into Russell's head not to turn the ball over. As a result he rarely throws it until he's 100 percent confident it won't be picked. This leads to late throws, lack of yac, and sacks.

Correct observation.
Less turnovers lead to more victories.

 

[hawknation2014]

It's not totally on him because there were a fair number of times when no one was open, but I'd like to see Russ get rid of it a little quicker at times. Some of those sacks occurred because he held onto the ball too long.

I definitely think he can still improve simply due to the increase in his experience and because he works so hard at preparing.

Blame your buddy Pete for that. He has beat it into Russell's head not to turn the ball over. As a result he rarely throws it until he's 100 percent confident it won't be picked. This leads to late throws, lack of yac, and sacks.

Seahawks were ranked 5th last season in yards after catch per reception (6.12). They were No. 1 in turnover margin and tied for first in fewest INTs per game (0.5), despite Wilson throwing an INT for three consecutive weeks in December. I have to imagine Wilson's marital troubles played a role during that unusual stretch that resulted in two losses. But that's just speculation on my part, knowing that December is the most common month for separations and January the most common for divorces. The offensive line was also horrible during that time, as they were for so much of the season.

 

[bmorepunk]

I did something like this a while back but the graph is much sexier, I'll just leave this here:

The Original Post (plus Sack Totals)

Manning: 1108 Pass Att., 52 TDs, 43 INTs, 36 SACKs
Wilson......: 800 Pass Att., 52 TDs, 19 INTs, 77 SACKs

Didn't Manning have Marvin Harrison as well?

Is it still too early to call Wilson a future HOFer

The Extreme Edition:

PEYTON MANNING VS RUSSELL WILSON

1st Pick, 1998....(DRAFT)....75th Pick, 2012
6'5.....................(HEIGHT).....................5'11
233.....................(WEIGHT).....................205

1108............(PASS ATTEMPTS).............800 (-308)
59.4..............(COMPLETION %)..............63.6 (+4.2)
7874.............(PASSING YARDS)...........6475 (-1399)
7.2 ...............(YARDS PER ATT.).............8.1 (+0.9)

52..................(TOUCHDOWNS)................52
43..................(INTERCEPTIONS)..............19 (-24)
36..................(TIMES SACKED)................77 (+ 41)
80.1..................(QB RATING)...............100.9 (+20.8)

50................(RUSH ATTEMPTS)............190 (+140)
135..............(RUSHING YARDS)...........1028 (+893)
3.1.............(YARDS PER CARRY).............5.4 (+2.3)
2...................(RUSHING TDS)......................5 (+3)
9.......................(FUMBLES)........................16 (+7)
7..................(FUMBLES LOST).....................8 (+1)

3-13, 13-3 ......(W-L RECORD)......11-5, 13-3 (+ 8 Wins)
7..............(4TH QTR COMEBACKS)..............7
8.............(GAME WINNING DRIVES)............9 (+1)

The Ultimate Difference:

Wilson has +3 Total TDs, -23 Total Turnovers, -506 Total Yards w/ -168 Total Attempts whilst being Sacked 41 more times than Peyton Manning.

Manning's Key Support:
WR, Marvin Harrison (HoFer)
RB/WR, Marshall Faulk ('98, HoFer)
RB/WR, Edgerrian James ('99, Potential HoFer?)
WRs, Jerome Pathon ('98), Terrance Wilkins ('99)
TEs, Marcus Pollard, Ken Dilger

Wilson's Key Support:
WR, Golden Tate, Sidney Rice (mostly '12)
RB, Marshawn Lynch
WRs, Doug Baldwin (mostly '13), Jermaine Kearse ('13)
TE, Zach Miller, Anthony McCoy ('12), Luke Willson ('13)

Once again, I get that people are annoyed by "game manager" when talking about Wilson. But if the guy continues to be successful, then that will go away.

If you're going to compare Wilson and Manning's first two years directly you need to take defense into consideration as well. When the recent great quarterbacks (we're talking about guys like Manning and Brady here) have done well in the postseason they did so with great defenses. When was the last time the Patriots won a Super Bowl? Brady wasn't the super quarterback he is early in his career. He was more like Wilson in numbers. And realistically the comparison should probably be more with Brady than Manning since the team and careers are a far closer emulation.

To ignore the fact that the 98 defense of the Colts was probably the second worst (they gave up 160 yards per game on the ground) is naive or disingenuous when comparing it to a great defense in the Seahawks. They weren't much better in 99. Manning wasn't also very good his first two seasons, which seems to be getting ignored here.

Unless you can magically make them trade places there's really no way to measure how "good" they are in their very different circumstances. It would probably be easier not to have thin skin about people calling Wilson "game manager".

 

[BASF]

Wilson made the Hall Of Fame in his fourteenth game by setting a record that will probably never be broken:

"Among the recent acquisitions by the museum was the uniform Wilson wore when the Seahawks beat the Buffalo Bills, 50-17, on Dec. 16 in Toronto. In that game Wilson became the first player to rush for three touchdowns and throw a touchdown pass in the first half of an NFL game."

As far as the comparisons, the fact is that Wilson stands up very well against any quarterback from any era when comparing their first two starting seasons regardless if they were rookies. Wilson is a spectacular player and wonderful leader. He has "it" which has a very high percentage of leading to the Hall Of Fame.

 

[RolandDeschain]

I posted this on the Donkeys forum:

Elway, first two years in the NFL:
24.57 passing attempts per game average
~53% completion percentage
25 TDs to 29 ints
~68ish passer rating
The Broncos had a total of 979 rushes and 974 passing attempts in the 1983 & 1984 seasons combined, Elway's first two. Also, Steve DeBerg threw more times per game than Elway did, so Elway's games were more run-heavy than this stat indicates.

Wilson, first two years in the NFL:
25.00 passing attempts per game average
63.6% completion percentage
52 TDs to 19 ints
100.6% passer rating
The Seahawks had a total of 1045 rushes and 825 passing attempts in the 2012 & 2013 seasons combined, Wilson's first two.

So if Wilson's a game manager, then what's that make Elway? Total scrub by comparison? Talk about drastic differences between the first two years of their careers.

(Also, I estimated Elway's numbers to not be biased against him because he didn't play 16 games in either of his first two seasons, so it's a pretty fair/accurate comparison. It'd have been easy to bias in favor of Russell, but I don't roll that way.)

 

[kpak76]

I posted this on the Donkeys forum:

Elway, first two years in the NFL:
24.57 passing attempts per game average
~53% completion percentage
25 TDs to 29 ints
~68ish passer rating
The Broncos had a total of 979 rushes and 974 passing attempts in the 1983 & 1984 seasons combined, Elway's first two. Also, Steve DeBerg threw more times per game than Elway did, so Elway's games were more run-heavy than this stat indicates.

Wilson, first two years in the NFL:
25.00 passing attempts per game average
63.6% completion percentage
52 TDs to 19 ints
100.6% passer rating
The Seahawks had a total of 1045 rushes and 825 passing attempts in the 2012 & 2013 seasons combined, Wilson's first two.

So if Wilson's a game manager, then what's that make Elway? Total scrub by comparison? Talk about drastic differences between the first two years of their careers.

(Also, I estimated Elway's numbers to not be biased against him because he didn't play 16 games in either of his first two seasons, so it's a pretty fair/accurate comparison. It'd have been easy to bias in favor of Russell, but I don't roll that way.)

Donco fans are one of the worst when it comes to trying to understand football outside of their little state of Colorado. If you bring logic that ever paints Elway not in the best of light, they want to burn you at the stake. At least thats what I got from reading them over at the bronco country message board.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

The greatest QB to ever play this game was a "game manager" (eeek)........

Never heard anyone call Johnny Unitus a 'game manager'.
.
.
.
j/k

I know you meant Montana. Some of us old-timers think Johnny U. was better, maybe Otto Graham as well. I have a Whiner fan buddy that thinks Young was better than Joe. All subjective opinion of course.

 

[Russ Willstrong]

Russell Wilson has quietly compiled some of the best stats in NFL history over his short career. His detractors who include many from the media conveniently ignore such stats like only passer with 100+ rating in his first two years. The argument deterioration to "well Luck/Newton has to do more with less" which actually contradicts their statement. We all know RW has to make those fewer passing opportunities count and to a group of pedestrian receivers. The Wilson haters even contradict themselves by saying he's too short to see the field. Well then he's put up some of the greatest numbers playing blind (too short to see) while running for his life behind a porous line throwing to a bunch of nobodies right?
The only way to settle this is for RW to play his best ball. Win an MVP. Be paid like an MVP. Shut up his critics and the foolish twelves who think he's less than his real worth.

The only necessary improvement RW should make in the upcoming year is to really assert himself as an alpha dog first on his team then in the league. I can see it. Dark Russell Wilson divorced his wife to dedicate his life to football. Wills his way to another SB and signs a 25 million/year contract. Collects MVP. Watches Lynch and key defensive players get let go so fans can't say he isn't carrying the team. By then the only argument left is that he's short.