hawk45":3uqrk7fn said:The broadcaster Lynch had a great point. Put another TE in the game if you have to to stay in and block and split Graham out wide.
We drafted Vannett for a reason, right?
hawk45":3uqrk7fn said:The broadcaster Lynch had a great point. Put another TE in the game if you have to to stay in and block and split Graham out wide.
randomation":3q9puva4 said:So is Sioux actually Bevell? I can't think of any reason to defend two targets to Jimmy vs nine to freaking Kearse
semiahmoo":h6ph8mnm said:Jimmy seemed agitated during much of this game and after his TD was downright subdued/sullen as if to say, "SEE, THEY GET ME THE BALL I GET IT DONE!!!"
So many times I see Bevell using Graham to block for yet another crappy running play. When Graham is utilized as a receiver, even if he isn't targeted, he's often pulling at least a double-team thus freeing up other receivers.
I see Graham as a world-class talent who, under a more TE-knowledgeable OC, could have have an amazing/league dominating season with Wilson/Baldwin etc.
But maybe that's just me and Bevell is in fact a offensive genius who is already utilizing Graham to the best of Graham's abilities...
cymatica":2mt1v3jc said:Can anyone, please anyone, please explain how Bevell called a great game and utilized Graham properly. 31 points is not an answer. OL sucks isn't either. Please, tell me what I am missing. Give me an answer that makes sense and I will admit I'm wrong about Bevell. Please include any route concepts, scheme, or something along those lines. As has been pointed out, why not split him out and block with another TE? Why not quick slant? Why have him chip and play inline 70-80% of the plays? Why not scheme him open in the redzone?
If this crap was going on a couple times, then you could dismiss it. How is it these teams can play 8 in the box, constantly blitz, spy Wilson, but we can't isolate Jimmy Freakin Graham? It's a 2 year trend of sporatic production and no redzone results.
Please, tell me what I'm missing
theENGLISHseahawk":1i8dp80i said:You've got to love a thread like this.
Graham wants a trade, so do others.
Graham should tell them it's Bevell or him (errr... what is he going to retire?)
And presumably all of these people think Pete Carroll stands by Bevell and keeps him just to troll the team and prevent it from succeeding.
Or maybe, just maybe, the Seahawks scored 31 points today and what actually cost them was the pathetic OL, the streaky defense and the abysmal special teams?
Scapegoat.net
MontanaHawk05":2103qhfj said:theENGLISHseahawk":2103qhfj said:You've got to love a thread like this.
Graham wants a trade, so do others.
Graham should tell them it's Bevell or him (errr... what is he going to retire?)
And presumably all of these people think Pete Carroll stands by Bevell and keeps him just to troll the team and prevent it from succeeding.
Or maybe, just maybe, the Seahawks scored 31 points today and what actually cost them was the pathetic OL, the streaky defense and the abysmal special teams?
Scapegoat.net
Bevell played a role this time. I repeatedly saw third down plays where Graham wasn't on the field. We spent the first half back in long-developing mode and it cost us.
The players' criticism of Bevell is making the whole thing a lot more credible.
----------------------RichNhansom":3w3iifmj said:These threads are fun. Don't even have to read the posts fully to know what is being said.
I do think it is time to move on from Bevell and Cable but I'm not convinced it will help us.
Wilson has looked bad this whole season. Constant over throws and never seems to hit a receiver in stride. He looks panicked this year and I'm sure some of that is the O-line but it doesn't change that he looks kind of lost and constantly running into trouble instead of out of it.
Wilson appears to struggle over the middle as well as the red zone. That limits very heavily what any play caller can do, especially if the QB is audibling out of plays. Add to that our O-line coach has not made progress for 5 years and you have to question everything. Look at AZ yesterday their O-line is much worse off than ours is now and Palmer is way less mobile than Russ yet we struggled to get pressure.
I don't know if changing the OC and line coach will help or hurt but at this point we need to do something as the team appears to be losing confidence and Wilson looks to be regressing.
Geezus, it's bad enough that so many others repost your constant same-old same-old messages by responding to them. Why on earth do you feel it necessary that you yourself do it too?semiahmoo":39uy9kc2 said:----------------------RichNhansom":39uy9kc2 said:These threads are fun. Don't even have to read the posts fully to know what is being said.
I do think it is time to move on from Bevell and Cable but I'm not convinced it will help us.
Wilson has looked bad this whole season. Constant over throws and never seems to hit a receiver in stride. He looks panicked this year and I'm sure some of that is the O-line but it doesn't change that he looks kind of lost and constantly running into trouble instead of out of it.
Wilson appears to struggle over the middle as well as the red zone. That limits very heavily what any play caller can do, especially if the QB is audibling out of plays. Add to that our O-line coach has not made progress for 5 years and you have to question everything. Look at AZ yesterday their O-line is much worse off than ours is now and Palmer is way less mobile than Russ yet we struggled to get pressure.
I don't know if changing the OC and line coach will help or hurt but at this point we need to do something as the team appears to be losing confidence and Wilson looks to be regressing.
As much as I hate to agree with most of what you said - I have to.
You're right.
Wilson relied heavily on his scrambling abilities and back when the Hawks were still a running threat, he was able to get away with that kind of repeated broken play offense.
Now he's slower, and yes, more panicked back there after repeated abuse by defenses tearing through our feeble O-Line.
His pass-timing is off, and many of his pass stats have been the result of receivers making very difficult catches via balls over and under-thrown time and time again.
RW is remains a good quarterback via his sheer will to win. The guy works harder than anyone, but physical limitations and perhaps, a mind that is now overcome by uncertainty in his own physical limitations, are taking a toll and preventing him from ascending to the next level.
Better use of Jimmy Graham could have alleviated so much of these problems, but alas, the current OC has rarely seemed capable of doing just that:
---------------
Much has been said regarding the lack of consistent targets to Jimmy Graham throughout the season.
It appears the only stat that matters - WINS vs LOSSES, supports the frustration so many have with this situation.
When Jimmy is targeted and accumulates 60+ yards in a game, the Hawks have won 5/6 of those contests.
In the games where Jimmy saw fewer targets and accumulated less than 60 total yards, the Hawks are 2/7.
This stat would indicate that Jimmy Graham might very well be the 2nd most important part of the Hawks' offense behind Russel Wilson - and yet, for whatever reason, be it Bevell or something else, we have seen Graham underutilized for multiple games, used as a blocker for a majority of plays, etc.
If the 60+ yds stat would hold for the entire season, (and given it's based on 6 games, so it's not an outlier but a clear trend, it is not beyond reason to think if the Hawks had been able to more fully utilize Graham's remarkable gifts as an athlete/receiver, the Hawks might very well be the most dominant team in the league right now instead of limping into the playoffs with multiple hot vs cold performances.
----------------------
RolandDeschain":2x4j1sa7 said:We're watching the same thing happen to Russell Wilson that happened to Marc Bulger and David Carr. Crappy O-lines for years broke them and they started always hearing footsteps even when they weren't there. We need to dump Bevell & probably Cable, and fix the O-line. Seriously, I'd be happy to watch us spend all three of our first draft picks on OL.
semiahmoo":2omgqb8h said:----------------------RichNhansom":2omgqb8h said:These threads are fun. Don't even have to read the posts fully to know what is being said.
I do think it is time to move on from Bevell and Cable but I'm not convinced it will help us.
Wilson has looked bad this whole season. Constant over throws and never seems to hit a receiver in stride. He looks panicked this year and I'm sure some of that is the O-line but it doesn't change that he looks kind of lost and constantly running into trouble instead of out of it.
Wilson appears to struggle over the middle as well as the red zone. That limits very heavily what any play caller can do, especially if the QB is audibling out of plays. Add to that our O-line coach has not made progress for 5 years and you have to question everything. Look at AZ yesterday their O-line is much worse off than ours is now and Palmer is way less mobile than Russ yet we struggled to get pressure.
I don't know if changing the OC and line coach will help or hurt but at this point we need to do something as the team appears to be losing confidence and Wilson looks to be regressing.
As much as I hate to agree with most of what you said - I have to.
You're right.
Wilson relied heavily on his scrambling abilities and back when the Hawks were still a running threat, he was able to get away with that kind of repeated broken play offense.
Now he's slower, and yes, more panicked back there after repeated abuse by defenses tearing through our feeble O-Line.
His pass-timing is off, and many of his pass stats have been the result of receivers making very difficult catches via balls over and under-thrown time and time again.
RW is remains a good quarterback via his sheer will to win. The guy works harder than anyone, but physical limitations and perhaps, a mind that is now overcome by uncertainty in his own physical limitations, are taking a toll and preventing him from ascending to the next level.
Better use of Jimmy Graham could have alleviated so much of these problems, but alas, the current OC has rarely seemed capable of doing just that:
---------------
Much has been said regarding the lack of consistent targets to Jimmy Graham throughout the season.
It appears the only stat that matters - WINS vs LOSSES, supports the frustration so many have with this situation.
When Jimmy is targeted and accumulates 60+ yards in a game, the Hawks have won 5/6 of those contests.
In the games where Jimmy saw fewer targets and accumulated less than 60 total yards, the Hawks are 2/7.
This stat would indicate that Jimmy Graham might very well be the 2nd most important part of the Hawks' offense behind Russel Wilson - and yet, for whatever reason, be it Bevell or something else, we have seen Graham underutilized for multiple games, used as a blocker for a majority of plays, etc.
If the 60+ yds stat would hold for the entire season, (and given it's based on 6 games, so it's not an outlier but a clear trend, it is not beyond reason to think if the Hawks had been able to more fully utilize Graham's remarkable gifts as an athlete/receiver, the Hawks might very well be the most dominant team in the league right now instead of limping into the playoffs with multiple hot vs cold performances.
----------------------
semiahmoo":1cfb3rjg said:"Many here believe Wilson walks on water. I love a lot of things I see from him but I believe he has some flaws that are showing up on the field. Like almost never leading a receiver on deep passes. You can ask is Lockett hurt right now if he doesn't have to slow down just a little to wait for the ball?"
----------------------
Fair point. RW's status was elevated initially in part by a team stacked with talent, a world-class defense, and world-class running back at the height of his powers.
Since that time, more of Wilson's physical limitations have been exposed and he's also had to endure repeated physical trauma due to a tepid at best O-Line.
I am still a RW fan - but want a team willing to truly see how he can perform/develop with a more competent O-Line and more capable OC.
vin.couve12":2j3ajml7 said:In the first half, Bevell called a shite game. We had about 0 yards all half. Now, that is compounded by RW consistently being a slow starter. Camping with the ball up until the 2 minute offense in the first half is an RW trait, as is accuracy problems. THEN you throw in the OL and it easily becomes a disaster. We used to be a running team in the first half with one of the best generational backs you'll ever see and that overshadowed a lot of those shortcomings. RW turned it on in the second half, as he usually does, and then we get all of these scewed views about things.
We suck as an offense habitually in first halves. That's almost always the case without emphasis on the running game. Bevell is a part of it, RW is a part of it, and the OL is as well. Not to mention that any decent RB we have can't stay healthy. At this point, I'd be fine if we ran Collins a lot in the first half. He used to look like he could do the truffle shuffle, but he looked fit and much better yesterday. We NEED to mitigate the first half shortcomings of Bevell, RW, and the OL. It pays off later in the game. They're all slow starters, IMO.