How much will Russell's contract be?

[themunn]

I don't know where you guys are getting this whole 'greed' comment from. He deserves to get paid like the elite QB he is. He's young, he hasn't made money like the other guys and led his team to a Super Bowl.

Because I think the current QBs on 20m contracts are greedy by allowing themselves to hinder the team by taking too much of the salary cap for themselves?

And generally, they're guys who play for teams unlikely to make or win the big game, so they are quite happy to make as much money out of it.
Peyton Manning made 17m last year or whatever, but you can bet your bottom dollar other teams including ourselves offered him more money, but he went to Denver because he felt it was the best situation for him, in allowing him to compete for another championship AND remain in the AFC.

And at the end of the day, what's the difference between 90m and 110m?

Arnold Schwarzenegger said it best "Money doesn't make you happy. I now have $50 million but I was just as happy when I had $48 million."

20m is a lot of money, but you could live a great life 100 times with 90m in the bank

 

[Evil_Shenanigans]

This thread is practically destined for the PWR forum. Take from the Rich and give to the poor? Not in the current NFL.

 

[Russ Willstrong]

Lol. It's not just the quarterbacks. Top receivers and rb make a killing too.
So much money floating around and yet those under the new salary structure are getting hosed.
They should be paid their due because careers are shortlived.
You pay your leaders and stars for their impact then you surround them with cheaper talent via Draft and free agency. Schneider knows exactly what he's doing. There will be no need to debate RW's salary. Paul Allen and the Schnied are not frugal or stupid.

 

[SonicHawk]

I don't know where you guys are getting this whole 'greed' comment from. He deserves to get paid like the elite QB he is. He's young, he hasn't made money like the other guys and led his team to a Super Bowl.

Because I think the current QBs on 20m contracts are greedy by allowing themselves to hinder the team by taking too much of the salary cap for themselves?

And generally, they're guys who play for teams unlikely to make or win the big game, so they are quite happy to make as much money out of it.
Peyton Manning made 17m last year or whatever, but you can bet your bottom dollar other teams including ourselves offered him more money, but he went to Denver because he felt it was the best situation for him, in allowing him to compete for another championship AND remain in the AFC.

And at the end of the day, what's the difference between 90m and 110m?

Arnold Schwarzenegger said it best "Money doesn't make you happy. I now have $50 million but I was just as happy when I had $48 million."

20m is a lot of money, but you could live a great life 100 times with 90m in the bank

The difference between 90 and 110M is $20M. And $20M can go along way.

What you think they 'need' and what salaries in the NFL actually are have absolutely no meaning when we're talking about the reality of the NFL. I suggest you bring qualms of professional athletes salaries to the PW&R forum where we can discuss it in more depth.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Because I think the current QBs on 20m contracts are greedy by allowing themselves to hinder the team by taking too much of the salary cap for themselves?

The NFL isn't a charity, players are no different than any of us, they deserve whatever the market dictates.

Are you telling me if your boss came to you and said "hey Munn, you did an amazing job this year I'm going to quadruple your salary......but it might mean a couple of your co-workers will have to transfer to another location." Are you going to say no?

ESPECIALLY in the NFL where the average career is less than 5 years, AND contracts aren't guaranteed. These guys have to make as much as they can in that small window of opportunity.

I wouldn't worry about Russell's contract, they're going to give him a massive long term contract, probably in the 8-10 year range where they can spread out the bonus and cap hit over the lifetime of the contract so it doesn't hurt too much.

 

[themunn]

Because I think the current QBs on 20m contracts are greedy by allowing themselves to hinder the team by taking too much of the salary cap for themselves?

The NFL isn't a charity, players are no different than any of us, they deserve whatever the market dictates.

Are you telling me if your boss came to you and said "hey Munn, you did an amazing job this year I'm going to quadruple your salary......but it might mean a couple of your co-workers will have to transfer to another location." Are you going to say no?

ESPECIALLY in the NFL where the average career is less than 5 years, AND contracts aren't guaranteed. These guys have to make as much as they can in that small window of opportunity.

I wouldn't worry about Russell's contract, they're going to give him a massive long term contract, probably in the 8-10 year range where they can spread out the bonus and cap hit over the lifetime of the contract so it doesn't hurt too much.

It's not really a comparable situation though, because my job isn't to win a Superbowl, and if those guys move, it doesn't affect my goal at work.
Say the boss gives you an alternate offer of "We'll triple your salary and that means we can afford to keep these guys you like and that help you do your job so well, or quadruple it as we said before, but we probably won't be able to keep your colleagues".

What would you do in that scenario?

The world is full of people who take "less than market value" at a job so that they can work closer to home, or for a company that offers specific benefits, like say a 4 day week, guaranteed 9-5 every day or a really relaxed office environment.

You have investment bankers who sacrifice all of that to make as much money as possible in as short a time as possible, and are all about maximising their "market value".


It all depends on Wilson's goals. If he really wants to go down as "the best ever", he won't take the biggest contract he could get. Don't get me wrong, he'll get PAID, but I still believe it'll be for less than teams out there would offer. Just like Chancellor took way less than Goldson last year (around 15% less). Earl will probably get more, but his value is significantly higher (as was Chancellor's)

 

[davidonmi]

he isn't going to take less money to stay in Seattle, he deserves as much as he can get.
However IMO he isn't a top 5 qb yet, so I don't think the market will command 20+ per.
6 years 108 million, 18 per?
But again a lot can change before it's time to pay him

 

[Blitzer88]

However much its gonna be, I know one thing, its gonna be A LOT OF DOUGH!

 

[Anthony!]

OK this is a little over the top, but let's say for example next time I have a job review and I get a choice to make between;

$15 million a year, for about 8 years, plus huge local endorsements
Live here where I'm loved and comfortable
Have a job I love where my boss is awesome
I'm on a "team" where my objective is usually achieved, where I'm a celebrated leader in the media
I get multiple rings from winning the biggest championship in sports
I'm a household name and HOF'er, and can make endorsements and run charities for the rest of my life when I retire

and;

$20 million a year, for 4 or 5 years, plus few local endorsements
Live in Cleveland where I have start over
Have an unstable job I don't know if I'll like, and I'm a goat in the media for not winning and costing too much
I'm on a "team" where I'm not winning and getting hammered
I win nothing ever again and retire in relative anonymity...

I'll just stay here

I didn't know Cleveland would be the only team to want to sign RW. I think there are about half the teams in the league that would drop their starting QB for RW (maybe more) and at a cost equal to Joe Flacco? HAHAHA!

He doesn't have to live in Cleveland.
He wouldn't have a more unstable job than here in Seattle.
What makes you think they would continue to lose with RW as starting QB?
He's already a Super Bowl champion, won't ever be anonymous.

He could also:
Join a team that is maybe a QB away from a championship.
Get paid millions of dollars every year more than your ridiculous idea of what to pay a SB winning QB
Get the same endorsements (plenty of national ones) and depending on the market might even be more notable.
He could turn an average franchise into a great franchise by being their leader.

RW isn't an idiot. Stop trying to suggest as much.

Let's not forget he could sign with a team that won't marginalize his stats by being a 'run-first' team.

Exactly, us not allowing him to throw more could hurt as he will not be bale to realize his full potential,

 

[Anthony!]

He will never ever take 20 a year. He will take a surprisingly large pay cut. Haven't any of you ever read twitter? He often makes posts of how little money really means to him. I'd say 10-12 possible even lower but it will be a very long (decade?) contract I think.

actually the player union will not allow him to take 10-12 mil if the rate is higher, they will maintain the rate

 

[davidonmi]

he is not taking a pay cut, as the poster before said the PA won't let him devalue the position by taking 12.
What he will do is structure the contract so it's favorable to the team, make it so the cap hit isn't as big as it is with those other contracts

 

[Anthony!]

My point (over the top, like I said) is Wilson would stay here for less short term money to be on a winner. I'm not suggesting Wilson is stupid, I'm suggesting he's smart. I'm suggesting he's not mercenary.

Brady makes about $13 million / year, he could probably make $10 million a year more. Do you think he's stupid? It happens with winning teams, and it will happen in Seattle given we have a SuperBowl win and seem have become a marquee destination.

Teams who are paying QB's $20 million / year are sacrificing too much money on a single player, and I hope we don't pay anyone that much. However, I think we will find a point where Russ can stay here, without taking so much of the cap it starts handicapping our team.

All will become clear in a year and a few months...

The issue is you presume he can only win here, which is untrue. Maybe he can go to a team who needs a QB, and will build the offense around him. There are plenty of reasons for him to stay and plenty to go, we will see.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I wouldn't worry about Russell's contract, they're going to give him a massive long term contract, probably in the 8-10 year range where they can spread out the bonus and cap hit over the lifetime of the contract so it doesn't hurt too much.

"Hometown discounts" are usually in the 5-10% range, so that's what I suspect Russell will be willing to drop his price down.

THIS is what worried me seeing

Jay Z ain't messing around with his new agent management company, as we found out with Cano's contract.

 

[mikeak]

You guys are ignoring that a better team takes pressure of the QB. It takes hits off the qb if the RB carries the ball / WRs are open / OL don't suck leading to constant sacking.

All of the above extends the career of the QB, keeps his head from getting hit to many times - leads to a happier, longer life right now and in the future.

RW is not stupid. RW knows he has a long career ahead of him. He will want to be a part of a team and not be the team.

RW just saw what happens to teams that are built around one guy. We play in a division with currently two other teams on the Vegas top 5 list of low odds to win the SuperBowl next year.......

 

[hawk45]

I suppose a stream of posts talking about hometown discounts is natural after winning the Superbowl and starting down the task of trying to retain enough pieces. I don't believe that any real substantial discount (more than a mil or two) is realistic on the first big contract of a Superbowl-winning guy. The only real idea here is the idea that if you do the contract before free agency you can take a mil or two less but get it without having to play that last year for peanuts, and so you end up with a decent avg salary and security. That I can see a player doing. But at most you're looking at knocking a couple of mil off.

I don't see 10-12 under any circumstances. I think it'll be in the 15-20 range and I'll accept gladly whatever it ends up being.

 

[Penman96]

My point (over the top, like I said) is Wilson would stay here for less short term money to be on a winner. I'm not suggesting Wilson is stupid, I'm suggesting he's smart. I'm suggesting he's not mercenary.

Brady makes about $13 million / year, he could probably make $10 million a year more. Do you think he's stupid? It happens with winning teams, and it will happen in Seattle given we have a SuperBowl win and seem have become a marquee destination.

Teams who are paying QB's $20 million / year are sacrificing too much money on a single player, and I hope we don't pay anyone that much. However, I think we will find a point where Russ can stay here, without taking so much of the cap it starts handicapping our team.

All will become clear in a year and a few months...

The issue is you presume he can only win here, which is untrue. Maybe he can go to a team who needs a QB, and will build the offense around him. There are plenty of reasons for him to stay and plenty to go, we will see.

My presumption is that no quarterback can win anywhere if they are taking + $20 million of cap space. There just isn't enough money left over to build a championship team.

In fact, I'd go further and say that most teams with + $20 million QB's wont even win a playoff game.

 

[Anthony!]

You guys are ignoring that a better team takes pressure of the QB. It takes hits off the qb if the RB carries the ball / WRs are open / OL don't suck leading to constant sacking.

All of the above extends the career of the QB, keeps his head from getting hit to many times - leads to a happier, longer life right now and in the future.

RW is not stupid. RW knows he has a long career ahead of him. He will want to be a part of a team and not be the team.

RW just saw what happens to teams that are built around one guy. We play in a division with currently two other teams on the Vegas top 5 list of low odds to win the SuperBowl next year.......

He was the most hit, hurried and sacked QB in the league this last year your whole premise does not help are case at all.

 

[Anthony!]

My point (over the top, like I said) is Wilson would stay here for less short term money to be on a winner. I'm not suggesting Wilson is stupid, I'm suggesting he's smart. I'm suggesting he's not mercenary.

Brady makes about $13 million / year, he could probably make $10 million a year more. Do you think he's stupid? It happens with winning teams, and it will happen in Seattle given we have a SuperBowl win and seem have become a marquee destination.

Teams who are paying QB's $20 million / year are sacrificing too much money on a single player, and I hope we don't pay anyone that much. However, I think we will find a point where Russ can stay here, without taking so much of the cap it starts handicapping our team.

All will become clear in a year and a few months...

The issue is you presume he can only win here, which is untrue. Maybe he can go to a team who needs a QB, and will build the offense around him. There are plenty of reasons for him to stay and plenty to go, we will see.

My presumption is that no quarterback can win anywhere if they are taking + $20 million of cap space. There just isn't enough money left over to build a championship team.

In fact, I'd go further and say that most teams with + $20 million QB's wont even win a playoff game.

First there is only 4 20 mil QBs, we are really looking at 17-19 mil range, but since its only 1-2 mil, the premise is still the same, so lets look at that, out of the 8 Qbs making over 17 mil 4 were in the playoffs this year and 2 others were in the hunt, out of the 4 in the playoffs 2 of them won a playoff game, and 1 made it to the SB, so your premise is incorrect.

The avg salary for the top 15 QB in the league is 16 mil but that is 2013 dollars by next year it will be more. 3 of your op 5 paid QBs made the playoffs, and 2 won a playoff game.

 

[Penman96]

I'll give you that. My premise doesn't account for the greatest QB in the history of the game making big bucks and getting to the SuperBowl, then getting annihilated by a team that is evenly built. Let's look at the last 8 QB's / teams in the playoffs;

Carolina - Newton makes bugger all
SF - Kaep makes bugger all
Seattle - Wilson makes bugger all
Indy - Luck makes bugger all
Pats - Brady cap hit was 14.8 million, long term veteran and one of the best to ever play. He restructured to save the team money
NO - Brees cap hit was 17.4 million, long term veteran and one of the best to ever play. He will restructure this year to save the team money
Donkeys - Manning cap hit was 17.5 million, long term veteran and the best to ever play.
Bolts - Rivers cap hit was 13.7 million, long term veteran and a great QB

So filtering out 24 loser teams (many with overpriced QB) we get an average of about 8 million for QB. And it's worth noting that three of the NFC teams with low paid QB's are the three best teams in the league and could beat the remaining 5 teams and obviously the other 24.

See my point? The teams that are successful, and are paying +15 million for QB's, happen to have QB's that are +10 year veterans that are among the best of all time. Wilson and the other new QB's are just not on that category and won't be for years to come. So if anyone thinks we are paying $20 million / year to Wilson and still completing, they are having a laugh. We could get Aaron f-ing Rodgers for that money - and we don't need him.

 

[hawk45]

I'll give you that. My premise doesn't account for the greatest QB in the history of the game making big bucks and getting to the SuperBowl, then getting annihilated by a team that is evenly built. Let's look at the last 8 QB's / teams in the playoffs;

Carolina - Newton makes bugger all
SF - Kaep makes bugger all
Seattle - Wilson makes bugger all
Indy - Luck makes bugger all
Pats - Brady cap hit was 14.8 million, long term veteran and one of the best to ever play. He restructured to save the team money
NO - Brees cap hit was 17.4 million, long term veteran and one of the best to ever play. He will restructure this year to save the team money
Donkeys - Manning cap hit was 17.5 million, long term veteran and the best to ever play.
Bolts - Rivers cap hit was 13.7 million, long term veteran and a great QB

So filtering out 24 loser teams (many with overpriced QB) we get an average of about 8 million for QB. And it's worth noting that three of the NFC teams with low paid QB's are the three best teams in the league and could beat the remaining 5 teams and obviously the other 24.

See my point? The teams that are successful, and are paying +15 million for QB's, happen to have QB's that are +10 year veterans that are among the best of all time. Wilson and the other new QB's are just not on that category and won't be for years to come. So if anyone thinks we are paying $20 million / year to Wilson and still completing, they are having a laugh. We could get Aaron f-ing Rodgers for that money - and we don't need him.

Penman not a single one of the teams which cheap QBs will have cheap QBs when their rookie deals are up. So yes, it's a big advantage to have a good QB on their rookie deal still. That does not mean you can avoid paying your QB when his rookie deal is up.

Far and away, finding that one rookie QB who can take you to the Superbowl within 4 years of entering the league is the exception. More often than not, you have the scenario where you pay Matt Flynn 3 yrs at 20 mil and discover he is garbage. When you find a QB who has PROVEN they can win on the road, in the playoffs, and in the SB, if you put yourself back in the position of kicking the tires on the Matt Flynns of the world, you are the worst GM in the history of ever. Even close to 20 mil looks like a bargain compared to 6 or 7 mil spent on Matt Flynn.

I agree that the cap numbers of the all-time greats you listed make it possible that we'll find a way to do a deal with Russell where the cap hit is closer to 15 than 20. But no, you can't get Rodgers for 20 mil, you can't get Brees for 18 mil, and you can't get Brady for 15 mil. Because those teams would pay whatever it took to retain those guys if it came to it just as we'll do the same for Russell. Name me the last time a team let a good-enough-to-win-Superbowl quarterback walk (Colts having Luck on tap doesn't count).

It doesn't happen. Because a GM that lets a guy walk over 5 mil and spends the next 5 years paying Matt Cassell, Kevin Kolb, et. al. 7 mil or more is fired and burned in effigy.

I totally agree it's much more difficult to stay on top once your QB is off the rookie deal. That doesn't make letting the guy walk the correct choice if he wants more than 15. The position of having to pay your QB a ton of your cap isn't a great one, but it's a better position than not having a guy with "it" at the position.