I think this DT class is very, very over-rated

[vin.couve12]

Mañana....

 

[getnasty]

Anyone have thoughts on Bullard from Florida? Not sure he's a Pete Carroll type DE but I like his quick get off and explosiveness as a DT. After we take Conklin in the 1st he might be someone to look at in the 2nd.

 

[pcbball12]

Anyone have thoughts on Bullard from Florida? Not sure he's a Pete Carroll type DE but I like his quick get off and explosiveness as a DT. After we take Conklin in the 1st he might be someone to look at in the 2nd.

One of my 5 favorite players in this draft. Reminds me of Michael Bennett. Can rush from the edge and win with power, can rush inside and win with his get off and quickness. A really good, versatile player.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

Hargrave is one of my favorite prospects (along with Billings). Hargrave really killed this combine

34.5″ vert. I don’t see a vert equal to that at 300+. His vert is equal to Nkemdiche/Rankins. Better than Spence.

Washington who I though would be the #2 pass rush DT got a grisly 27″. That’s day 3 territory. He was destroyed by the combine.

Austin Johnson and Chris Jones managed a pedestrian 26″ and 24.5″ at equivalent weight.

Hargrave tested way better than I thought he would. Here’s how he rated amongst DTs that were 300+

40: 1st
10y: 1st
Bench: 4th
Vert: 1st
Broad: 5th

The way he carries his weight, he looks like mini-Tez. He has shorter legs with a big ole butt. Squat and powerful with leverage and low center of mass.

I have the numbers from the drafts going back to 2010. I'll see where he rates amongst 300+ DTs. I'm guessing it'll look pretty good.

If we're looking for wild testing DE types -- this class is not good. The numbers for guys in the 290-299 range are good. But they don't look eye popping by themselves.

 

[pcbball12]

Hargrave is one of my favorite prospects (along with Billings). Hargrave really killed this combine

34.5″ vert. I don’t see a vert equal to that at 300+. His vert is equal to Nkemdiche/Rankins. Better than Spence.

Washington who I though would be the #2 pass rush DT got a grisly 27″. That’s day 3 territory. He was destroyed by the combine.

Austin Johnson and Chris Jones managed a pedestrian 26″ and 24.5″ at equivalent weight.

Hargrave tested way better than I thought he would. Here’s how he rated amongst DTs that were 300+

40: 1st
10y: 1st
Bench: 4th
Vert: 1st
Broad: 5th

The way he carries his weight, he looks like mini-Tez. He has shorter legs with a big ole butt. Squat and powerful with leverage and low center of mass.

I have the numbers from the drafts going back to 2010. I'll see where he rates amongst 300+ DTs. I'm guessing it'll look pretty good.

If we're looking for wild testing DE types -- this class is not good. The numbers for guys in the 290-299 range are good. But they don't look eye popping by themselves.

I love Hargrave too man, and the numbers weren't ENTIRELY surprising (although I didn't expect quite this good of testing). He is such an explosive interior rusher. Explosive get off, active hands, finishes well, anchors well. Literally the only question mark he has is level of competition. I believe how well he played at the Shrine practices kind of helped with that though. I am so curious how high this is gonna bump him up. He shouldn't get out of top of round 2 in my opinion, but wouldn't surprise me to see him go in that Geno Atkins range. Seems there is a really good interior rusher that surprisingly falls further than he should every year (last year I was dumb founded on why Grady Jarrett fell so far).

 

[vin.couve12]

Hargrave tape is hard to come by, but from what I've seen he does kind of remind me of a shorter armed Mebane from what I've seen. People forget how much of a pass rusher Mebane was early on.

Will the shorter arms hurt Hargrave though?

And why the F don' they post the 10 yard split for these players?!?!?!!?

 

[vin.couve12]

Oh, and one more thing; Kearly nailed it. This draft really is less talented at least by measurables. By a decent margin at that.

 

[chris98251]

These are the type of drafts that may not have the freakish stand outs but have good players that are going to be the nuts and bolts of teams for a while.

 

[vin.couve12]

I can agree with that.

 

[kearly]

Hargrave is one of my favorite prospects (along with Billings). Hargrave really killed this combine.

Hargrave is probably my favorite DT at this point, in terms of draft value. He'd be a really nice pick in round 3 or 4.

 

[vin.couve12]

Wanted to throw a couple pesos in real quick because it dawned on me and I don't know of a player like that this year, but Kawaan Short was a player I thought would be one of the best DTs to come out of that draft because of his natural leverage, hand usage, and just general football playerness.

There was nothing about his combine that stood out. Not in the slightest.

Anyone got a player like that this year?

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

Kawaan Short was a player I thought would be one of the best DTs to come out of that draft because of his natural leverage, hand usage, and just general football playerness.

There was nothing about his combine that stood out. Not in the slightest.

Anyone got a player like that this year?

Short was really the best interior rusher in his class. Testing or not, he was productive and you could see it on tape he was disruptive. Did have some motor/effort issues.

You'd have to consider production:

2010 - 12.5 TFL | 6.0 sack
2011 - 17.0 TFL | 6.5 sack
2012 - 15.5 TFL | 7.0 sack

I'd caution that teams trying to get 'the next XXXX' player are pretty much doomed to failure. It's better to get 'the first XXXX' kind of unique player. You don't need a squat/strong interior guy who plays with leverage to still have a successful player.

The list I'd put up there as somewhat similar candidates:

1. Javon Hargrave

Similar: Production. Strength
Adv. Size, speed, 10y split, explosive testing, overall SPARQ.
Disadv: Competition level, agility testing, Arm length

2. Andrew Billings

Similar: Competition level, speed, strength
Adv: explosive testing. size
Disadv: Arm length, production, agility testing

3. Ronald Blair

Similar: Arm length, agility testing, speed, production
Adv: explosive testing,
Disadv: size, competition level

4. Luther Maddy (pending pro day results

Similar: competition level
Adv:
Disadv: Production, arm length, size


If you can look past the lower competition level -- then Hargrave and Blair are pretty close. Blair is probably too small to play interior at 284.

 

[DJrmb]

Good read, thanks Kearly.

I think I'm in line with most of your opinions. This DT class is really deep in the sense that there are a lot of guys that are pretty good but it lacks Elite guys at the top. Barring someone just catching on late and really overachieving in the NFL you're going to get similar talent at DT from mid-late round 1 to probably into the 5th round...

With that, I hope Seattle uses that to their advantage. I know we need depth and talent at DT but I hope if the hype starts a run on DT's in the 1st that we zig when everyone else is zagging and grab one of the other positions that slipped down further than they should have. With all the hype I could see a guy like Ezekiel Elliot, Jack Conklin, or Leonard Floyd drop right into our lap.

 

[vin.couve12]

Kawaan Short was a player I thought would be one of the best DTs to come out of that draft because of his natural leverage, hand usage, and just general football playerness.

There was nothing about his combine that stood out. Not in the slightest.

Anyone got a player like that this year?

Short was really the best interior rusher in his class. Testing or not, he was productive and you could see it on tape he was disruptive. Did have some motor/effort issues.

You'd have to consider production:

2010 - 12.5 TFL | 6.0 sack
2011 - 17.0 TFL | 6.5 sack
2012 - 15.5 TFL | 7.0 sack

I'd caution that teams trying to get 'the next XXXX' player are pretty much doomed to failure. It's better to get 'the first XXXX' kind of unique player. You don't need a squat/strong interior guy who plays with leverage to still have a successful player.

The list I'd put up there as somewhat similar candidates:

1. Javon Hargrave

Similar: Production. Strength
Adv. Size, speed, 10y split, explosive testing, overall SPARQ.
Disadv: Competition level, agility testing, Arm length

2. Andrew Billings

Similar: Competition level, speed, strength
Adv: explosive testing. size
Disadv: Arm length, production, agility testing

3. Ronald Blair

Similar: Arm length, agility testing, speed, production
Adv: explosive testing,
Disadv: size, competition level

4. Luther Maddy (pending pro day results

Similar: competition level
Adv:
Disadv: Production, arm length, size


If you can look past the lower competition level -- then Hargrave and Blair are pretty close. Blair is probably too small to play interior at 284.

Nice breakdown, man.

 

[poplarbluffman]

tend to agree about being overrated based on sparq/production numbers

Donald wasn't just a sparq freak he also had incredible production... lot of very good but not great players IMO