If I was the Chargers ...

HawkGA

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RedAlice":259c3mhr said:
IndyHawk":259c3mhr said:
You cannot release him because old man COWBOY owner will grab him and say he just made a brilliant move :pukeface:

The deadline to trade drafted, unsigned players was August 9th - if he doesn't sign with the Chargers he has to go back into the draft next year.

Good explanation of the issues in this article:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/charg ... est-offer/

Haven't read the article but presumably there could be a sign an trade situation set up.
 

drrew

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Can't believe all the people in this thread taking the side of the billionaire.

Every single top 5 pick since 2011 has either gotten their bonus in year 1, or had no offset language in their contract.

The cheap ass Chargers have decided they don't care what the established precedent for EVERY SINGLE TOP 5 PICK SINCE 2011 is, and that Bosa should get the short end on both issues.

Bosa and his agent are not the problem, Spanos and the Chargers are the problem. The fact that the billionaire has spun this so people are upset at the millionaire is a shame. Open your eyes, there is one party clearly in the wrong and it is not Joey Bosa.
 

MizzouHawkGal

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drrew":gtpwn1cr said:
Can't believe all the people in this thread taking the side of the billionaire.

Every single top 5 pick since 2011 has either gotten their bonus in year 1, or had no offset language in their contract.

The cheap ass Chargers have decided they don't care what the established precedent for EVERY SINGLE TOP 5 PICK FROM SINCE 2011 is, and that Bosa should get the short end on both issues.

Bosa and his agent are not the problem, Spanos and the Chargers are the problem. The fact that the billionaire has spun this so people are upset at the millionaire is a shame. Open your eyes, there is one party clearly in the wrong and it is not Joey Bosa.
Meh, color me nonplussed by either side Bose should shut up and sign already just like Bennett should shut up. I'm not sorry for either of them in the least.
 

Glasgow Seahawk

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Do any nfl teams lose money these days?

I know some nhl and nba teams do and soccer teams like barcelona, real madrid etc have debt that would make small nations blush.

But do NFL or for that matter mlb teams lose money that cause them to be cheap when it comes to player spending, facilities etc?
 

HawkAroundTheClock

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Attyla the Hawk":ofmcrbwc said:
I'd guess that this final offer is really for public benefit.
I agree, and so did Bosa's agency:
It is unfortunate the San Diego Chargers have decided to manipulate facts and negotiate in the media.
...
We will say, that it is ironic that the team now takes issue with the timing of Joey’s arrival, since the Chargers unilaterally decided to remain silent for the first 14 days of training camp instead of replying in a timely fashion to the proposal we made on the eve of training camp on July 28th.

I heard Jessamyn McIntyre read the Chargers' press release yesterday. It sounded like a sketchy company pleading, "See?! WE are not the bad guys!" It came off as petty, desperate, and adversarial.

Whichever side you think is right, we all know this would never happen with Pete and John's Seahawks. They would've figured it out before the draft. That tells me everything I need to know about this stalemate.
 

HawkAroundTheClock

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And just after I posted that, I found a write-up that also uses the words "petty" and "desperation" to describe the Chargers. This is a detailed breakdown of every skeazy element of the Chargers' tactics and position, from Louis Bien on SB Nation.

http://www.sbnation.com/2016/8/25/12628 ... -situation

Subheads in the article:

Bosa wants one of two things, and both are reasonable

The Chargers’ statement was dumb

The Chargers’ statement was devious and you shouldn’t like them

And this takeaway:

A lot of NFL teams struggle. Few teams struggle and still have the gall to try to dictate terms to everyone they depend on, like the Chargers have. They consistently operate without regard for their fans’ or players’ interests, and have middling success to show for it.
I'm so thankful for Paul Allen, Pete Carroll, and John Schneider.
 

bmorepunk

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Bosa's leverage is only that the Chargers may have wasted a third pick overall. But even this high up in the draft it's a crapshoot and he may never output anything close to where he's drafted. It's not a high probability.

The team's leverage is that Bosa will not get paid at all this year then have to re-enter the draft and miss out on money as well as probably getting drafted much lower and getting even less money. This result for them (not getting the player) is the same outcome as him not panning out (which is a reasonable possibility).

What Bosa and his agent are doing here has an extremely low probability of being beneficial to him. I get that people want to be "principled" but this is ultimately about money. If he really wants good money at a high probability, he should have just sucked it up and signed.
 

HawkGA

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Glasgow Seahawk":2tr9csqr said:
Do any nfl teams lose money these days?

I know some nhl and nba teams do and soccer teams like barcelona, real madrid etc have debt that would make small nations blush.

But do NFL or for that matter mlb teams lose money that cause them to be cheap when it comes to player spending, facilities etc?

Probably more of a cash flow issue. But *losing* money and not making enough money to support the owner in the way the owner would like to be supported are quite separate things.
 

Sterling Archer

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Haven't any of you chosen a lower paying job because the company, environment or fringe benefits were better? Bosa is not in a position right now to NEED the money. He's the one player that can actually carry this through if he so chooses. Personally, I think he'll cave because who could stand up against $17+ million, but the principle he and his agent are citing is appropriate.

drrew's post was perfect in explaining the situation. The chargers are trying to be unprecedented cheapskates and are a notoriously piece of sh-t organization. They drove out Weddle just last year with similar tactics, not sure how that is being forgotten.
 

Attyla the Hawk

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bmorepunk":p1saa3sk said:
Bosa's leverage is only that the Chargers may have wasted a third pick overall. But even this high up in the draft it's a crapshoot and he may never output anything close to where he's drafted. It's not a high probability.

The team's leverage is that Bosa will not get paid at all this year then have to re-enter the draft and miss out on money as well as probably getting drafted much lower and getting even less money. This result for them (not getting the player) is the same outcome as him not panning out (which is a reasonable possibility).

What Bosa and his agent are doing here has an extremely low probability of being beneficial to him. I get that people want to be "principled" but this is ultimately about money. If he really wants good money at a high probability, he should have just sucked it up and signed.

That's kind of short term thinking though.

Here's the other side of the coin. If you expect to be a valuable player capable of getting a second deal (which any top 5 overall pick should), then you're not simply angling for your first year money. You're more concerned with your possible second contract.

If the Chargers are willing to make this kind of low ball offer -- and couple that with similar structured deals for their veterans -- then there is the very real scenario where if Bosa signs, then he's basically under club control for up to 7 years with a club that has shown very little regard to how it compensates it's players.

If that's the case -- then Bosa could be better off not signing at all and take his chances with another club drafting him.

I don't know Bosa's financial situation. Maybe his family is well off. Or he's comfortable enough that he would sacrifice a full year of earning potential in order to go to a better organization that will be more conducive to helping him achieve his career and salary goals when it's time for his second contract.

There's a reason that SD has difficulty attracting UFA talent. They are a shabbily run organization. One in near constant turmoil and bleeds talent year after year as soon as players have the chance to leave. It's not altogether a bad option to simply sit the year out if the monetary cost up front is something you can absorb.

Take the Bruce Irvin situation. Bruce was a very good player. Seattle let him go UFA after 4 years. He ended up on the open market and received more (both APY, guarantees and length) than had his 5th year been exercised. SD is an organization that is bad. It wouldn't be out of place that they'd be both in a position to, as well as predisposed philosophically -- to utilize mechanisms available to prevent Bosa from reaching the open market for as long as possible.

It may be about money today. But it's also about the kind of organization SD is presenting for the next 6 years. That goes beyond just this year.
 

hawksfansinceday1

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Archer":2a6is2ar said:
......The chargers are trying to be unprecedented cheapskates and are a notoriously piece of sh-t organization.........
I lived down there for 13 years and watched the organization up close. Your being nice calling them (Spanos family) a piece of shit org.
 

kobebryant

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I think Bosa is being screwed by a lousy franchise.

Here's why I could argue in favor of Bosa not signing with the Chargers, and re-entering the draft: the franchise that you are with matters - it matters a lot. If he signs with the Chargers he's committing himself to a lousy employer for 4-5 years. Over the long term he could potentially have a better career, and therefore more earning power, if he ends up with a better franchise. Russ wouldn't have a Super Bowl, 2 NFC championships, multiple pro bowls and 20m annually + endorsements if the Browns had him instead of Pete and John.

Pro sports - where the most promising collegians are funneled to the worst employers.
 

RedAlice

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pmedic920

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From what I understand at this point, the kids stands to lose 17 million if he sits this year out.

I don't care what type of deal he thinks he will get elsewhere, it will be hard to make that up.

I think he's being stupid, and the only logical reason I can see is, he simply doesn't what to be a "Charger".

I hope it all works out for him but there is no way in Hell that I'll feel sorry for him if it doesn't.
 

kobebryant

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drrew":nfylk6co said:
Can't believe all the people in this thread taking the side of the billionaire.

Every single top 5 pick since 2011 has either gotten their bonus in year 1, or had no offset language in their contract.

The cheap ass Chargers have decided they don't care what the established precedent for EVERY SINGLE TOP 5 PICK SINCE 2011 is, and that Bosa should get the short end on both issues.

Bosa and his agent are not the problem, Spanos and the Chargers are the problem. The fact that the billionaire has spun this so people are upset at the millionaire is a shame. Open your eyes, there is one party clearly in the wrong and it is not Joey Bosa.

Agreed.

I've always found it a little odd when fans side with management and these billion dollar entities over the talent.

The majority of us (even though I am self-employed and have employees) are in positions much more relateable to the talent than to that of the Spanos' of the world; though the common fan is likely thrown off by the scale of the economics, even though it really is all relative to revenue generated.

A lot of people say of athletes, "how many millions do you need" or "what's another million", but that's not the point. If we moved the decimals over a bit to where the likes of Brady/Rodgers where getting low millions, very good players where in the hundred thousands, and the average player was making the same as the typical working class person, with the same restrictions and parameters in place, it would be very apparent how bad the talent is being screwed.
 

OkieHawk

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pmedic920":2mbb8bj6 said:
From what I understand at this point, the kids stands to lose 17 million if he sits this year out.

I don't care what type of deal he thinks he will get elsewhere, it will be hard to make that up.

I think he's being stupid, and the only logical reason I can see is, he simply doesn't what to be a "Charger".

I hope it all works out for him but there is no way in Hell that I'll feel sorry for him if it doesn't.

If there are in fact contractual differences in how he gets said money, I can fully understand why he would sit out. Sometimes it is about principle, especially if he doesn't need the money.
 

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