Is Jimmy Graham still a top tier Tight End?

[scutterhawk]

He's not a good fit for the Seahawks System...Little Golden Tate was WAY better at blocking than the 6'7" 270 lb Graham, and as far as I'm concerned, had just as much (if not more) upside in catching the ball between the 20's.
I'm hoping that the Seahawks can find another Zach Miller TE, either in the upcoming Draft, or FA.
I think that the Seahawks misused JG, I think that they thought that they could Coach up the big guy to be a better blocker.
I think he's done playing for the Seahawks...Too much Money, too little upside.
Too bad too, as personally, I really like the guy.

 

[Rat]

On most teams, probably.

If I was Jimmy, I wouldn't re-sign here unless it was by far the most lucrative offer. He was on a Hall of Fame track before he was traded to Seattle.

 

[Scorpion05]

I think RW and him simply do not connect..Yes there was good RZ TD's this year finally
but how many plays did we see RW throw low or behind him?
I think him and Brees go well together and he would do great back in NO.
We need picks and lower cap hits.
We also need a blocking TE for sure so bye bye JG(not his fault)

How many plays did we see Jimmy develop stone hands??

On Saints forums some criticize his selfishness, his alligator arms, and his lack of effort on blocking. Very few Saints fans were crying about losing him, and the ones who want him back, want him at the right price

That matches up with all the criticism we have of him. Some also believe he's lost explosiveness after his injury. I know we can spend all day throwing it on Russell and his supposed inaccurate passes, but tape doesn't lie

 

[Atradees]

Zach Miller was better. Idk...guy can't block and must have balance issues...falls over when u touch him. No rumbling bumbling stumblin

 

[seahawkfreak]

We NEED a solid blocking TE. That has been largely missing since Zach Miller retired. It has effected the run game and pass protection.

There are some good BLOCKING TEs that can be had for close to the vet minimum, i.e. Troy Niklas.

So true. I would almost rather draft a tackle, put #89 on him and just use him as an extra blocker. Personally, knew a lot of linemen that took pride in catching a ball.

There has to be a happy medium,,,,,, more so towards the blocking side but linemen like to make big plays too and do not take high points for granted.

 

[jammerhawk]

The Jimmy is S-O-F-T !!!

Not suited to a running game focused team. Easily intimidated and taken out of the game.

Seen what he brings, want him gone.

Believe he checked out this last season. The team can do better with Willson and Vannett and a half way
competent OC.

 

[IndyHawk]

I think RW and him simply do not connect..Yes there was good RZ TD's this year finally
but how many plays did we see RW throw low or behind him?
I think him and Brees go well together and he would do great back in NO.
We need picks and lower cap hits.
We also need a blocking TE for sure so bye bye JG(not his fault)

How many plays did we see Jimmy develop stone hands??

On Saints forums some criticize his selfishness, his alligator arms, and his lack of effort on blocking. Very few Saints fans were crying about losing him, and the ones who want him back, want him at the right price

That matches up with all the criticism we have of him. Some also believe he's lost explosiveness after his injury. I know we can spend all day throwing it on Russell and his supposed inaccurate passes, but tape doesn't lie

To be fair,it is correct that JG has had drops that were his fault but overall I feel
him and RW just never really had it.
Some is on RW and some on JG when combined with expecting a blocker out of him
just compounded the problem even more.
I blame PC/JS just as much for being so short sighted in how he was to be used.
This trade was in some ways worse than the Harvin one.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

If they allowed him to just be a WR and not block, hell yes he is. That being said, he seemed to vanish in certain games, and pout a little as well. That drop he had on the final drive at Jax, he glares at Russ like it was his fault. Ball in hands, you should catch it, period.

 

[pittpnthrs]

On most teams, probably.

If I was Jimmy, I wouldn't re-sign here unless it was by far the most lucrative offer. He was on a Hall of Fame track before he was traded to Seattle.

Exactly how I see it. I dont think he really wants to be here anymore with the lack of effort he displayed. I would be surprised if he was.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I guess we need to define "top tier."

If it's top 10 TE's in the NFL? Yeah he probably squeaks in there. But if it's top 5? Nope, not even close for me.

Guys like Gronk, Kelce, Ertz, Olsen, Walker, etc are dynamic route runners, playmakers with exceptional hands that can take over a game.

I don't think Graham's been that since New Orleans. He wanders out into his routes, drops balls, and is too easily flustered and frustrated...........which takes him out of long stretches of games.

Not sure why we even keep talking about Graham, he's gone.

 

[Seahawkville]

I'd prefer to let him walk, and draft a tight end.

Bad draft for that.

Incorrect...Durham Smythe out of Notre Dame would be a great pick and have a nice long career, blocking AND catching.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Here's to hoping he gets a huge deal elsewhere, along w/any other guys who leave in FA. Get them comp picks piled up the next couple seasons.

 

[scrummymustard]

I guess we need to define "top tier."

If it's top 10 TE's in the NFL? Yeah he probably squeaks in there. But if it's top 5? Nope, not even close for me.

Guys like Gronk, Kelce, Ertz, Olsen, Walker, etc are dynamic route runners, playmakers with exceptional hands that can take over a game.

I don't think Graham's been that since New Orleans. He wanders out into his routes, drops balls, and is too easily flustered and frustrated...........which takes him out of long stretches of games.

Not sure why we even keep talking about Graham, he's gone.

But you're also missing....none of those players would be the same in this system, with this OL. System fit is paramount for production, and none would put up the same stats here they do on their teams.

There has never been a TE that has ever received 100 targets in Hawks history. All the players you named, receive 100, 110, 120, 130 targets a year, depending on the year. Only 1 of them has ever had double digits TDs in a single year in their careers, Gronk, 5x.

For as much disappointment that he receives around here, Graham holds essentially every single TE Seahawks receiving record (both single season and cumulative) in what amounts to only 2.5 seasons.

Who knows if he'll be back, but his time with the Hawks isn't as bad as many are making out.


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[Sun Tzu]

I'd prefer to let him walk, and draft a tight end.

Bad draft for that.

Incorrect...Durham Smythe out of Notre Dame would be a great pick and have a nice long career, blocking AND catching.

So are you basing an evaluation of the depth of talent at TE in this draft class on one player? One payer? I suggest throwing out a few more names if you are going to argue that the prior statement is incorrect.

 

[Seahawkville]

It's a suggestion. Pretty simple, where are YOUR picks? This is a projected 3-6th rounder. Not a 10 million dollar NFL vet.

http://www.draftblaster.com/2018-nfl-dr ... otre-dame/

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I guess we need to define "top tier."

If it's top 10 TE's in the NFL? Yeah he probably squeaks in there. But if it's top 5? Nope, not even close for me.

Guys like Gronk, Kelce, Ertz, Olsen, Walker, etc are dynamic route runners, playmakers with exceptional hands that can take over a game.

I don't think Graham's been that since New Orleans. He wanders out into his routes, drops balls, and is too easily flustered and frustrated...........which takes him out of long stretches of games.

Not sure why we even keep talking about Graham, he's gone.

But you're also missing....none of those players would be the same in this system, with this OL. System fit is paramount for production, and none would put up the same stats here they do on their teams.

There has never been a TE that has ever received 100 targets in Hawks history. All the players you named, receive 100, 110, 120, 130 targets a year, depending on the year. Only 1 of them has ever had double digits TDs in a single year in their careers, Gronk, 5x.

For as much disappointment that he receives around here, Graham holds essentially every single TE Seahawks receiving record (both single season and cumulative) in what amounts to only 2.5 seasons.

Who knows if he'll be back, but his time with the Hawks isn't as bad as many are making out.

Our system and poor O-line has nothing to do with how Jimmy runs routes, mopes when he doesn't get the ball or disappears for entire games because he got hit hard on a crossing route.

Fantastic athlete that needs to be in a finesse system, that ain't here.

 

[Popeyejones]

Hey guys, local Saints fan here. We are having a discussion on our Saints Forum about Jimmy Graham and the probability of him returning to the Saints. It seems that many Saints fans don't follow the Seahawks enough to give an accurate opinion of his situation, but I thought that I would bring the discussion here to the people who have watched him for the last 3 years.

My thinking is that Jimmy is still a top tier tight end, he has just had issues that were outside of his control.
1) Russ and Doug have that connection that Jimmy never got in on.
2) Seattle is run first, run often.
3) Darrell Bevell (it actually probably starts and ends here).

But what are your thoughts, is Jimmy still a top tier guy who was just misused?

Here is the Saints thread for those of you interested in reading the thoughts of others on JG.

https://saintsreport.com/forums/showthr ... 205&page=2

Jimmy Graham was overrated because he had a lot plays schemed for him in Payton's Air Coryell, and Drew Brees was a top QB in the NFL.

For the most part, with great scheming and a great QB receivers become fungible.

For you guys Colston becomes Cooks becomes Thomas.

Graham becomes Watson for a year who then becomes Kamara and Ingram.

The Pats work the same way.

As the Saints are running more due to Brees' arm decline Graham's liability in the running game becomes even more of a liability.

If I was a Saints there's no way I'd want Graham back.

Le him go to a bad team with too much cap room. Think of a team like the Browns. He's the type of splashy signing that will be cleared off the books in a few years when cap space might matter. I could also make arguments for him in Indy or Houston.

 

[Gibbo]

He doesn’t want to be here.

It’s jusy been a disaster.

Get rid. I’d give Vannett a go. Im sure he could catch balls just as good as Jimmy.

 

[DomeHawk]

I think it just depends on what you mean by "top-tier."

Is he a 10 million dollar TE? Nope, but he might be a 6-7 million dollar TE.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

He doesn’t want to be here.

It’s jusy been a disaster.

Get rid. I’d give Vannett a go. Im sure he could catch balls just as good as Jimmy.

Ah, good. We're relying on a third-round backup to provide the kind of red-zone production that (on average) only 9 or 10 players in the entire LEAGUE, across all positions, provide every season.

I agree there's a disaster in the vicinity, but I don't think it's in the past.