Is Jimmy Graham still a top tier Tight End?

[scrummymustard]

I guess we need to define "top tier."

If it's top 10 TE's in the NFL? Yeah he probably squeaks in there. But if it's top 5? Nope, not even close for me.

Guys like Gronk, Kelce, Ertz, Olsen, Walker, etc are dynamic route runners, playmakers with exceptional hands that can take over a game.

I don't think Graham's been that since New Orleans. He wanders out into his routes, drops balls, and is too easily flustered and frustrated...........which takes him out of long stretches of games.

Not sure why we even keep talking about Graham, he's gone.

But you're also missing....none of those players would be the same in this system, with this OL. System fit is paramount for production, and none would put up the same stats here they do on their teams.

There has never been a TE that has ever received 100 targets in Hawks history. All the players you named, receive 100, 110, 120, 130 targets a year, depending on the year. Only 1 of them has ever had double digits TDs in a single year in their careers, Gronk, 5x.

For as much disappointment that he receives around here, Graham holds essentially every single TE Seahawks receiving record (both single season and cumulative) in what amounts to only 2.5 seasons.

Who knows if he'll be back, but his time with the Hawks isn't as bad as many are making out.

Our system and poor O-line has nothing to do with how Jimmy runs routes, mopes when he doesn't get the ball or disappears for entire games because he got hit hard on a crossing route.

Fantastic athlete that needs to be in a finesse system, that ain't here.

Soooo, we agree, he's not a system fit? And as bad as that fit was, he still is the most productive TE in Hawks history? Not bad for someone who disappears for entire games and mopes around all the time. Yea, a super bowl wasn't in play for 2017, but it isn't for 31 teams.

The stats don't lie; Graham put up never before seen numbers from the TE position in new Orleans, that has yet to be duplicated. Then came here, did the same thing (albeit to a smaller extent than new Orleans). He's a great player, in the wrong offense, being used incorrectly.

The failure of 2017 offense is on the OL, and it wasn't for lack of investment: a $9M LT, $8M LG, $9M C, 2nd Rd RG & 1st Rd RT.

I get it, a Zach Miller type TE is a better fit for this offense, but does anyone really think the 2017 season changes with him instead of 88? We couldn't run the ball due to the OL, not because we didn't have a blocking TE.

 

[Seahawkville]

The problem with evaluating the Seahawks this year on both sides of the ball are injuries and philosophy. The latter has been addressed, the former is always an unknown.

Personally I would love to have Jimmy back but money is a problem this year. A lot depends on cuts and or possible trades.

I also think we need to draft a TE. that's why I suggested Smythe.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

The problem with evaluating the Seahawks this year on both sides of the ball are injuries and philosophy. The latter has been addressed, the former is always an unknown.

Personally I would love to have Jimmy back but money is a problem this year. A lot depends on cuts and or possible trades.

I also think we need to draft a TE. that's why I suggested Smythe.

Smythe has been a nice late emergence from the Senior Bowl, but he's one guy at a starved position. That makes it harder to nab him, as other teams will be pushing for his services, and we have few picks.

I think it's a better bet to take a flier on Tyler Eifert or (gulp) ASJ.

 

[hawknation2018]

I'm concerned about the receiving situation. I think Graham is a much better weapon, particularly in the red zone, than Paul Richardson. The difference in salaries could be negligible. I'm also leaning toward re-signing Graham instead of Sheldon Richardson because receiver seems like the bigger need.

With a new OC, maybe Graham can be persuaded to re-sign here.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Soooo, we agree, he's not a system fit? And as bad as that fit was, he still is the most productive TE in Hawks history? Not bad for someone who disappears for entire games and mopes around all the time. Yea, a super bowl wasn't in play for 2017, but it isn't for 31 teams.

I'm saying not only is Graham not a good system fit, he's not a good team fit either. Thus the reason I give the percentage that he's back at 0%.

One out of three years as a productive red zone target while being WILDLY inconsistent and downright terrible at every other aspect of the TE position is not "top tier" to me............and it's not to John and Pete who are trying to circle the wagons and get back to the young, physical ball control punishing style of offense.

Wasn't a good fit when we traded for Graham, and it's certainly an even worse fit three years later when he'll be just as expensive and three years older and less effective.

 

[Seahawkville]

The problem with evaluating the Seahawks this year on both sides of the ball are injuries and philosophy. The latter has been addressed, the former is always an unknown.

Personally I would love to have Jimmy back but money is a problem this year. A lot depends on cuts and or possible trades.

I also think we need to draft a TE. that's why I suggested Smythe.

Smythe has been a nice late emergence from the Senior Bowl, but he's one guy at a starved position. That makes it harder to nab him, as other teams will be pushing for his services, and we have few picks.

I think it's a better bet to take a flier on Tyler Eifert or (gulp) ASJ.

There's a bunch of good ones.

Hayden Hurst
Mark Andrews
Troy Fumagalli
Dalton Shultz

 

[chris98251]

Top tier is guys like.

Tony Gonzalez
Mark Bavarro
Kellen Winslow Sr
Zach Miller


No Graham is not close to one of them, they are a complete TE not a big WR.

 

[scrummymustard]

Top tier is guys like.

Tony Gonzalez
Mark Bavarro
Kellen Winslow Sr
Zach Miller


No Graham is not close to one of them, they are a complete TE not a big WR.

You honestly believe Zach Miller belongs with the other guys? Let's at least be reasonable.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[chris98251]

Top tier is guys like.

Tony Gonzalez
Mark Bavarro
Kellen Winslow Sr
Zach Miller


No Graham is not close to one of them, they are a complete TE not a big WR.

You honestly believe Zach Miller belongs with the other guys? Let's at least be reasonable.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Elite top tier, he was heading there till he got Bevelled and Cabled, he was a All Pro coming in from Oakland, then we stopped using him as a receiver, he had it all going for him, remember the Atlanta game and that was with the same injury Bennett had but worse, if I remember his required surgery. In Oakland he was a force, why we made the trade.

 

[IndyHawk]

Top tier is guys like.

Tony Gonzalez
Mark Bavarro
Kellen Winslow Sr
Zach Miller


No Graham is not close to one of them, they are a complete TE not a big WR.

Mark Bavaro was probaly the best complete TE I ever saw..
It's no brainer that the Giants had all those 1,000 yrd rushers in his years.
Winslow was more of a smaller JG though but faster.
Today Gronk is top tier.

 

[chris98251]

Top tier is guys like.

Tony Gonzalez
Mark Bavarro
Kellen Winslow Sr
Zach Miller


No Graham is not close to one of them, they are a complete TE not a big WR.

Mark Bavaro was probaly the best complete TE I ever saw..
It's no brainer that the Giants had all those 1,000 yrd rushers in his years.
Winslow was more of a smaller JG though but faster.
Today Gronk is top tier.

Winslow was a beast when asked to Block but had hands better then Grahams.

 

[scrummymustard]

Top tier is guys like.

Tony Gonzalez
Mark Bavarro
Kellen Winslow Sr
Zach Miller


No Graham is not close to one of them, they are a complete TE not a big WR.

You honestly believe Zach Miller belongs with the other guys? Let's at least be reasonable.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Elite top tier, he was heading there till he got Bevelled and Cabled, he was a All Pro coming in from Oakland, then we stopped using him as a receiver, he had it all going for him, remember the Atlanta game and that was with the same injury Bennett had but worse, if I remember his required surgery. In Oakland he was a force, why we made the trade.

Zach was never an all pro, and was never traded. He signed here as a free agent.

I think you may be getting miller and Graham confused, except for the bevelled/cabled part.

 

[BigBill1945]

Jimmy is a top tier tight end but not in our type offense. PC has designed our offense to be a run first offense. Jimmy was put in a situation where he may or may not was expected to block. If our run game was better perhaps we could have used him more between the 20s. In NO it was more of a passing offense. He fit in great. Yes he caught a lot of passes this year. I suspect with a good running game and his ability to block he would have even a better year. He made up for our lack of a run game but he was not enough. Someone will grab him if we do not keep him. I would like to see a tight end that block and catch. Our TEs are ok but they are obviously not Witten, Gronk, Gates, or Olsen.

 

[chris98251]

Top tier is guys like.

Tony Gonzalez
Mark Bavarro
Kellen Winslow Sr
Zach Miller


No Graham is not close to one of them, they are a complete TE not a big WR.

You honestly believe Zach Miller belongs with the other guys? Let's at least be reasonable.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Elite top tier, he was heading there till he got Bevelled and Cabled, he was a All Pro coming in from Oakland, then we stopped using him as a receiver, he had it all going for him, remember the Atlanta game and that was with the same injury Bennett had but worse, if I remember his required surgery. In Oakland he was a force, why we made the trade.

Zach was never an all pro, and was never traded. He signed here as a free agent.

I think you may be getting miller and Graham confused, except for the bevelled/cabled part.

Yes I stand corrected he was a Miller was added to the AFC 2011 Pro Bowl roster after Antonio Gates withdrew due to injury and was a FA.

 

[jammerhawk]

As I said above I want him gone. We’ve seen his game and know he doesn’t fit. He’s not a horse that can carry a team but rather a specialty piece.

He is still an exceptional receiving TE, but he can’t block and is easily taken out of games by opponents hitting him. So to me he’s not an elite TE, b/c he can’t block, and doesn’t want to block. He’d be a phenom and force of nature if he could hit take a hit and still catch. Opponents know this and they try to light him up. In the past the Hawks took him out of the New Orleans playoff game when he was “The Jimmy” by thumping him hard whenever they could, and Jimmy became invisible. The Seahawks need more from a TE not just a a player who only shows up in the red zone but can be muscled out. Without him blocking the O is playing with weak edge blocking when they run which sure doesn’t help much and makes the O more predictable/defensible.

Frankly it’s sad that our former OC took 3 seasons to figure out how to use his exceptional receiving ability and size and length in the red zone. Another OC may use him better to take advantage of his length with an OLine that can block. He still is mostly unusable between the 20’s and when hit enough develops alligator arms. I want some other team to overpay for him. He’s a poor fit for our team. Think we’d do better with Willson and the mostly under utilized Vannett.

 

[Seahawkville]

Here is a write up on Smythe from Rob at SDB

Durham Smythe (TE, Notre Dame)
Widely considered the best ‘Y’ tight end in the draft, Smythe’s blocking will appeal to many teams. College football just isn’t producing many traditional TE’s any more. For teams determined to run the ball and feature their tight end as a blocker, Smythe is a collectors item. Zierlein suggests he plays ‘like an offensive linemen’ in his blurb. He also had a terrific Senior Bowl, showing he’s much more than a mere blocker. Former four-star recruit.

Why would the Seahawks be interested?
Seattle gushed about Nick Vannett’s blocking ability when they drafted him in 2016. Clearly this has been a point of focus. With Jimmy Graham’s days in Seattle seemingly numbered, getting a player who could be Zach Miller-lite in the future could be appealing. The only concern? He has great size but short 31 1/2 inch arms.

SDB projection: Rounds 3-4
NFL.com projection: Round 4

http://seahawksdraftblog.com/

 

[LolaRox]

I think Jimmy is still a good TE, but he is a descending player. There are at least three TE (Gronk, Kelce, Ertz) I would take over him without a second thought and some others that I would give consideration depending on the scheme.

Gronk, Kelce, Ertz can go to any team and make an impact, Jimmy can't.

He doesn't fit with the Seahawks in scheme, identity, attitude..., but still has something to offer other teams.

 

[coorslighthawk]

My guess is he will be a Packer.