Is Russell Wilson worth 6 years $129m???

[HansGruber]

Hans --

You're misreading me. :lol:

Sorry if I'm partially responsible for that.

I absolutely agree with you that plenty of teams would be falling all over themselves to open the vault for Wilson. Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. It's why since my first post I've differentiated between what Wilson is "worth" (where I said he IS worth that deal for sure) and what he's worth TO THE HAWKS (which I said is an interesting question).

John Clayton already answered your question.

Russell Wilson is worth the largest QB contract in the history of the NFL, TO THE SEAHAWKS and everyone else. He is a record-breaking Superbowl-winning young franchise QB who hasn't even shown his full potential yet, has never even played behind a quality OL. He's the heart of this team. A team he took from 7-9 to a Superbowl. A team full of mediocre receivers that he's turned into All-Stars. A team with a terrible OL that he's made look competent. A team whose defense has let him down, and he's simply stepped up and won it in overtime - repeatedly. A team that tried to quit on him in the playoffs in Atlanta, and who he bitch-slapped until they woke up and scored 21 unanswered points in the final 10 minutes of the game to come from behind (only to be let down by the defense). You don't think that's worth something to John Schneider and Paul Allen? You don't think Buffalo and countless other teams see that value and just drool over what that would mean to their teams? You freaking bet they do!!!!

There have been very few QBs in the history of the NFL to do what he's done. That is what Russell Wilson is worth. And every single NFL franchise sees and knows that. John Clayton has said that repeatedly on air. This kid isn't just a franchise QB. He's the next Montana, Aikman, Brady, Staubach, Bradshaw. He's the face of the next dynasty. He's 3-4 Superbowl championships. He's the greatest winner ever. What is the value of that? Can you even put a value on that? It goes beyond numbers.

If John Schneider can't get a deal done, Paul Allen fires him the next day. No ifs, ands, or buts. When was the last time a team drafted a kid who won them a Superbowl in his second season? How many times has that happened in the history of the NFL? You can't replace him. You don't even try. Only the most clueless noob would even suggest something that stupid. Russell Wilson is one of those "once-in-a-generation" guys. You try to replace that with a rookie and John Schneider's house is getting burned down, Paul Allen has angry hordes throwing firebombs at his car, and Pete Carroll is hiding in a WWII-era bomb-shelter somewhere living off freeze-dried strawberries and powdered milk.

Russell Wilson is the biggest sports star in the history of Seattle sports. And it's not even close. People don't even remember the Glove or the Kid. Randy who? Edgar who? Steve Largent? That dude out in Kansas? Didn't he play in the 70's??

This town belongs to Russell Wilson and it's not even close. There were MILLIONS of screaming fans freaking out on the streets of Seattle in that parade last February when his Hummer drove by. I saw a woman next to me literally pass out. I saw a grown man crying and shaking. I saw kids standing there with their mouths open, speechless, stunned. Russell Wilson is a GOD in this town. That's what he means to the Seahawks. He is literally a GOD. He is Jupiter in the body of Julius Ceasar parading through downtown Rome after conquering the Gauls.

So what is he worth to Seattle? A blank check. Whatever he wants. The entire Republic. Fuggit. Give him everything.

 

[AgentDib]

Now with that being said, we definitely need to keep drafting OL every year (like we have been doing). And probably this year need to trade up to grab a better prospect.

Also if our coaching staff is truly developmental then we need to see continued improvement out of Britt, Bailey, Gilliam, Schilling, Sweezy, Carpenter, etc. A lot of that uncertainty in the draft has to do with how the players are motivated and how they fit into the system. A few disappointments like Bowie really drag things down here, but our current line absolutely has the potential for improvement.

 

[HansGruber]

I'm going to get killed for it, but I wouldn't pay it. With all of the pieces we have and the defense we have, there are a lot of quarterbacks out there that we can win Super Bowls with.

Tical isn't wrong. In theory there are a lot of QBs who could contend with Seattle's supporting cast.

However, the problem is getting that QB.

Seattle's pass protection issues would require obtaining a QB who is a master of beating the blitz. Pete also strongly prefers a QB who can run the read option effectively. So that's going to cut down on the list of QBs that make sense for Seattle.

It is still fairly difficult to obtain a franchise QB. Who are we getting? Because guys like Chad Henne, Matt Schaub, Kyle Orton, and Ryan Fitzpatrick probably aren't going to get it done. Maybe we could get Tom Brady in a trade (I'd bet Belichick would do it if you offered enough), but it wouldn't be cheap and he'd be a short term solution. And he can't be a read option QB.

If you draft a QB, then you are rolling the dice. Odds are pretty low that you'll find another Russell Wilson. More likely, you'll land a QB in the efficiency range of Ryan Tannehill and Cam Newton. I would consider ourselves fairly lucky if we got someone like Austin Davis or Kirk Cousins, who are not great QBs. Not yet anyway.

When you look at the plausible alternatives to Wilson, and how they might fare behind our pass protection, you're probably punting at least 3 wins to save $15-20 million a year. It would be very hard to make up those wins with that amount of savings.

And that's not even getting into the equity Wilson has earned with the fanbase and community, or how he's been the ultimate ambassador for the Seahawks and even the NFL. He has the #1 selling jersey in the NFL, and though it doesn't help Seattle's cap number, it does help Paul Allen make money.

One last thing, the NFL's cap number is rising at a historic rate. The difference between the 2013 cap number and the 2015 cap number by itself will pay for Wilson's new salary. Sure, that means other teams will have more money to spend than the Seahawks, but if anyone thinks the Seahawks have only been good because Wilson's been saving them $20 million every season, they haven't been paying attention.

You're talking about the 1993 Dallas Cowboys swapping Troy Aikman for Scott Mitchell.
The 1982 San Francisco 49ers swapping Joe Montana for Steve Bartkowski.
The 1976 Pittsburgh Steelers swapping Terry Bradshaw for Steve Grogan.
The 2001 NE Patriots swapping Tom Brady for Quincy Carter.

I know you're not arguing that we get rid of Russell Wilson, or not pay him. Just putting the move into perspective. This is literally what would be the equivalent of Tical's completely failed logic.

 

[Cartire]

I'm going to get killed for it, but I wouldn't pay it. With all of the pieces we have and the defense we have, there are a lot of quarterbacks out there that we can win Super Bowls with.

Tical isn't wrong. In theory there are a lot of QBs who could contend with Seattle's supporting cast.

However, the problem is getting that QB.

Seattle's pass protection issues would require obtaining a QB who is a master of beating the blitz. Pete also strongly prefers a QB who can run the read option effectively. So that's going to cut down on the list of QBs that make sense for Seattle.

It is still fairly difficult to obtain a franchise QB. Who are we getting? Because guys like Chad Henne, Matt Schaub, Kyle Orton, and Ryan Fitzpatrick probably aren't going to get it done. Maybe we could get Tom Brady in a trade (I'd bet Belichick would do it if you offered enough), but it wouldn't be cheap and he'd be a short term solution. And he can't be a read option QB.

If you draft a QB, then you are rolling the dice. Odds are pretty low that you'll find another Russell Wilson. More likely, you'll land a QB in the efficiency range of Ryan Tannehill and Cam Newton. I would consider ourselves fairly lucky if we got someone like Austin Davis or Kirk Cousins, who are not great QBs. Not yet anyway.

When you look at the plausible alternatives to Wilson, and how they might fare behind our pass protection, you're probably punting at least 3 wins to save $15-20 million a year. It would be very hard to make up those wins with that amount of savings.

And that's not even getting into the equity Wilson has earned with the fanbase and community, or how he's been the ultimate ambassador for the Seahawks and even the NFL. He has the #1 selling jersey in the NFL, and though it doesn't help Seattle's cap number, it does help Paul Allen make money.

One last thing, the NFL's cap number is rising at a historic rate. The difference between the 2013 cap number and the 2015 cap number by itself will pay for Wilson's new salary. Sure, that means other teams will have more money to spend than the Seahawks, but if anyone thinks the Seahawks have only been good because Wilson's been saving them $20 million every season, they haven't been paying attention.

You're talking about the 1993 Dallas Cowboys swapping Troy Aikman for Scott Mitchell.
The 1982 San Francisco 49ers swapping Joe Montana for Steve Bartkowski.
The 1976 Pittsburgh Steelers swapping Terry Bradshaw for Steve Grogan.
The 2001 NE Patriots swapping Tom Brady for Quincy Carter.

Please, tell me you're not serious.

Russell Wilson isn't just wins and losses. He's the face of a dynasty. The core of it. The Seahawks let him walk, and Paul Allen fires the entire front office and coaching staff and starts over from scratch.

Again, someone please name the QBs who've won Superbowls in their second season. How many of them in NFL history? That's what Russell Wilson is. You let that walk, and you're laughed at for eternity for being the stupidest front office in the history of the league. That would be the equivalent of Mike Ditka giving up 10 picks for Ricky Williams.

I dont think you noticed the heavy sarcastic tone. Nor do I think you read the conclusion.

 

[Popeyejones]

I don't think he diagnoses what he is seeing quickly enough or attacks the middle of the defense well enough. He holds onto the ball too long against the blitz rather than finding his hot routes. These things are fine for a young QB, but I just don't see him improving greatly in these areas. He has to work so hard for everything, which is great, but is it sustainable? It would be nice to see him learn how to make things easier on himself.

Not that it helps your case being supported by a 9ers fan ( :lol: -- albeit a 9ers fan who sincerely loves Wilson as a player ), but this has been my read too. This was the year that I was expecting him to start finding the pocket and spending time in his progressions as the plays are designed in it rather than over-relying on an internal clock to bail from the top of it. So far this year I haven't seen any development in that regard.

People here will no doubt take this with a grain of salt given the messenger, but I've actually been pretty surprised this year that despite 1) Wilson being the MUCH more naturally gifted QB and 2) stil the better QB, that Kaepernick so far seems to have improved on his trouble spots more than Wilson, even if the stats don't show it totally clearly. Kaps footwork has improved, he's getting through his progressions much quicker, stepping into the pocket more to do so, and also has developed some touch on intermediate and long throws.* Wilson is still better, but he's also -- so far -- still the same guy he has been.


*It's not all rosy. He's still a mess on short throws, doesn't really have a natural feel for the game, and over-relies on his pre-snap reads which allows defenses to jump his routes and abuse him when they trick him with disguised coverage (the last one being the only area I really expect him to maybe improve in.)

This post proves that:

A) You have watched 0 Seahawks games this season
B) You don't really understand what you're watching
C) You're blinded by 49er fan homerism
D) All of the Above

My money is on D.

Your statements were so ludicrious they almost make Tical's posts seem intelligent.

A) I've watched every Seahawks game this year, including every pre-season game. That's true for the last three seasons. FWIW that's also true for the Cardinals, although not the Rams. :lol:

B) I've played and coached on both sides of the ball, so there's at least some people out there who think I have some insight into what I see. :lol: (which OBVIOUSLY doesn't mean I'm right all the time or know anywhere near as much as many others)

C) I've repeatedly said Wilson is my favorite QB to watch in the NFL, I've repeatedly said Lynch is my favorite RB to watch in the NFL, I posted about how much I loved Tate as a player while he was a Hawk last year, I effusively complimented the Percy signing and stuck by my guns while he sat out a whole season. If I'm blinded by 9ers homerism, these have been very strange ways to show it.

D) Resorting to going after me personally rather than substantively arguing why I'm wrong draws into serious question who is being ludicrous, in my opinion.

:th2thumbs:

 

[HansGruber]

I'm going to get killed for it, but I wouldn't pay it. With all of the pieces we have and the defense we have, there are a lot of quarterbacks out there that we can win Super Bowls with.

Tical isn't wrong. In theory there are a lot of QBs who could contend with Seattle's supporting cast.

However, the problem is getting that QB.

Seattle's pass protection issues would require obtaining a QB who is a master of beating the blitz. Pete also strongly prefers a QB who can run the read option effectively. So that's going to cut down on the list of QBs that make sense for Seattle.

It is still fairly difficult to obtain a franchise QB. Who are we getting? Because guys like Chad Henne, Matt Schaub, Kyle Orton, and Ryan Fitzpatrick probably aren't going to get it done. Maybe we could get Tom Brady in a trade (I'd bet Belichick would do it if you offered enough), but it wouldn't be cheap and he'd be a short term solution. And he can't be a read option QB.

If you draft a QB, then you are rolling the dice. Odds are pretty low that you'll find another Russell Wilson. More likely, you'll land a QB in the efficiency range of Ryan Tannehill and Cam Newton. I would consider ourselves fairly lucky if we got someone like Austin Davis or Kirk Cousins, who are not great QBs. Not yet anyway.

When you look at the plausible alternatives to Wilson, and how they might fare behind our pass protection, you're probably punting at least 3 wins to save $15-20 million a year. It would be very hard to make up those wins with that amount of savings.

And that's not even getting into the equity Wilson has earned with the fanbase and community, or how he's been the ultimate ambassador for the Seahawks and even the NFL. He has the #1 selling jersey in the NFL, and though it doesn't help Seattle's cap number, it does help Paul Allen make money.

One last thing, the NFL's cap number is rising at a historic rate. The difference between the 2013 cap number and the 2015 cap number by itself will pay for Wilson's new salary. Sure, that means other teams will have more money to spend than the Seahawks, but if anyone thinks the Seahawks have only been good because Wilson's been saving them $20 million every season, they haven't been paying attention.

You're talking about the 1993 Dallas Cowboys swapping Troy Aikman for Scott Mitchell.
The 1982 San Francisco 49ers swapping Joe Montana for Steve Bartkowski.
The 1976 Pittsburgh Steelers swapping Terry Bradshaw for Steve Grogan.
The 2001 NE Patriots swapping Tom Brady for Quincy Carter.

Please, tell me you're not serious.

Russell Wilson isn't just wins and losses. He's the face of a dynasty. The core of it. The Seahawks let him walk, and Paul Allen fires the entire front office and coaching staff and starts over from scratch.

Again, someone please name the QBs who've won Superbowls in their second season. How many of them in NFL history? That's what Russell Wilson is. You let that walk, and you're laughed at for eternity for being the stupidest front office in the history of the league. That would be the equivalent of Mike Ditka giving up 10 picks for Ricky Williams.

I dont think you noticed the heavy sarcastic tone. Nor do I think you read the conclusion.

I did but it was unclear that I was responding mostly to Tical. I edited the post to be more clear.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Tical isn't wrong. In theory there are a lot of QBs who could contend with Seattle's supporting cast.

I understand his point, and theoretically we would still be capable of winning the Super Bowl with a lesser QB.

The problem is, most people still don't think about or realize just how much our pass pro would have ruined almost any other young QB prospect. We see it happen with other NFL teams ALL THE TIME.

Look at the 2013 season. The 49ers had the division won and home field advantage throughout the playoffs if we had lost one more game anywhere along the line last season; they had the 12-4 tiebreaker over us.

I would say that it's a GUARANTEE we would have lost one of the following games that we ended up barely squeaking out (in large part due to Russell specifically in each of these examples) if we had any other 2nd-year QB last year besides DangeRuss Wilson:

Seahawks @ Panthers (12-7)
Seahawks @ Texans (23-20 OT)
Seahawks @ Rams (14-9)
Bucs @ Seahawks (27-24 OT)

Think back to those games, and how Russell performed in them specifically, ESPECIALLY considering the pressure he was under against the Panthers and Rams in particular. We drop any one of those, and we're in San Francisco instead of Seattle for the NFCCG, which we very closely won.

I'd say that with any other 2nd-year QB on the Seahawks last year instead of Russell Wilson, it's almost a guarantee that we never even make it to the Super Bowl that season.

It takes a great team AND a great QB to truly be a perennial Super Bowl contender. Otherwise you just fall short of reaching the big game, or winning it. Teams that carry an average QB to a Super Bowl win are incredibly rare, and I think Tical's statement is a bit obtuse considering everything relating to this team and specifically the high likelihood that other QBs would fail behind our consistently crappy pass pro.

Nothing personal, Tical. I respect your opinions and analysis, I just think you're really off on this one.

 

[Popeyejones]

Hans --

You're misreading me. :lol:

Sorry if I'm partially responsible for that.

I absolutely agree with you that plenty of teams would be falling all over themselves to open the vault for Wilson. Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. It's why since my first post I've differentiated between what Wilson is "worth" (where I said he IS worth that deal for sure) and what he's worth TO THE HAWKS (which I said is an interesting question).

John Clayton already answered your question.

Russell Wilson is worth the largest QB contract in the history of the NFL, TO THE SEAHAWKS and everyone else.

Just cut the rest of the post off b/c it wasn't really on the topic.

As for this, okay. I think what Wilson is worth to the Hawks -- and what that means for PC and Schneider's long term strategy -- is a bit of a more interesting question than it was for Rodgers and the Packers, or Brees and the Saints. John Clayton apparently doesn't think it's an interesting question. Cool. I'm fine with that.

 

[HansGruber]

I don't think he diagnoses what he is seeing quickly enough or attacks the middle of the defense well enough. He holds onto the ball too long against the blitz rather than finding his hot routes. These things are fine for a young QB, but I just don't see him improving greatly in these areas. He has to work so hard for everything, which is great, but is it sustainable? It would be nice to see him learn how to make things easier on himself.

Not that it helps your case being supported by a 9ers fan ( :lol: -- albeit a 9ers fan who sincerely loves Wilson as a player ), but this has been my read too. This was the year that I was expecting him to start finding the pocket and spending time in his progressions as the plays are designed in it rather than over-relying on an internal clock to bail from the top of it. So far this year I haven't seen any development in that regard.

People here will no doubt take this with a grain of salt given the messenger, but I've actually been pretty surprised this year that despite 1) Wilson being the MUCH more naturally gifted QB and 2) stil the better QB, that Kaepernick so far seems to have improved on his trouble spots more than Wilson, even if the stats don't show it totally clearly. Kaps footwork has improved, he's getting through his progressions much quicker, stepping into the pocket more to do so, and also has developed some touch on intermediate and long throws.* Wilson is still better, but he's also -- so far -- still the same guy he has been.


*It's not all rosy. He's still a mess on short throws, doesn't really have a natural feel for the game, and over-relies on his pre-snap reads which allows defenses to jump his routes and abuse him when they trick him with disguised coverage (the last one being the only area I really expect him to maybe improve in.)

This post proves that:

A) You have watched 0 Seahawks games this season
B) You don't really understand what you're watching
C) You're blinded by 49er fan homerism
D) All of the Above

My money is on D.

Your statements were so ludicrious they almost make Tical's posts seem intelligent.

A) I've watched every Seahawks game this year, including every pre-season game. That's true for the last three seasons. FWIW that's also true for the Cardinals, although not the Rams. :lol:

B) I've played and coached on both sides of the ball, so there's at least some people out there who think I have some insight into what I see. :lol: (which OBVIOUSLY doesn't mean I'm right all the time or know anywhere near as much as many others)

C) I've repeatedly said Wilson is my favorite QB to watch in the NFL, I've repeatedly said Lynch is my favorite RB to watch in the NFL, I posted about how much I loved Tate as a player while he was a Hawk last year, I effusively complimented the Percy signing and stuck by my guns while he sat out a whole season. If I'm blinded by 9ers homerism, these have been very strange ways to show it.

D) Resorting to going after me personally rather than substantively arguing why I'm wrong draws into serious question who is being ludicrous, in my opinion.

:th2thumbs:

How could you possibly be a coach and say that Russell Wilson and Kaepernick are playing equivalent football right now? Seriously.

The entire media is filled with stories about that team in disarray a few weeks ago because your offense couldn't score a single touchdown in the second half for WEEKS. The Niners offense being impotent was the story of the NFL. Stories about Harbaugh being fired and whether the Alex Smith move was intelligent, with every single analyst wasting every minute of their time yammering on and on and on about how poorly your offense is playing, while Alex Smith is playing lights-out.

I've watched all the games as well, and it's not even close. Kaepernick looks absolutely terrible this season. Even last week against KC, he didn't look good. Outside of a few plays, he was struggling all day. Against a mediocre defense. In the Chicago game, we were laughing at him. He was terrible. I watched that game with Romans, literal Italians who know nothing about football, and they were commenting that Kaepernick doesn't even look like a pro QB.

You honestly think Kaepernick is more improved than Wilson right now? I mean, really? LOL.

That is perhaps the most mock-worthy thing I've read all day, and I've read a number of Tical posts.

 

[DavidSeven]

The crux of it is that I never see Wilson as a guy that is going to be able to carve up a defense and make it look easy. I don't think he diagnoses what he is seeing quickly enough or attacks the middle of the defense well enough. He holds onto the ball too long against the blitz rather than finding his hot routes. These things are fine for a young QB, but I just don't see him improving greatly in these areas. He has to work so hard for everything, which is great, but is it sustainable? It would be nice to see him learn how to make things easier on himself.

I don't necessarily disagree with any of this. The degree of difficulty on most Russell Wilson plays is quite higher than the plays of most -- let's face it -- taller QBs. He likely won't ever be that guy who quick releases in the face of enveloping pass pressure. He won't be the guy who consistently gets his WRs stats in the middle of the field. The reality of playing WR in Seattle is going to be a hard pill to swallow for quite a while. That being said, the dude is special and the best QB this franchise has ever seen by long shot.

What I think your overlooking a bit is the impact that Russell's mobility has on the run game. I think Pete Carroll has "seen the light" in terms of mobile quarterbacks, and I don't think he's ever going back. A guy who can run out on the edge and throw bombs anywhere behind the LOS opens up huge holes in the traditional run game. A QB keeper is also high on "explosive" potential, low on turnover potential. A competent running QB plays into everything Carroll wants out of his offense, and we've already seen him proclaim that a mobile quarterback is the most dangerous element in football.

Look at the QBs that Carroll has brought in since he had his revelation moment with Russell Wilson: BJ Daniels and Terrelle Pryor. Personally, I bet Pete daydreams about what he might've been able to do in his last years at USC if he had a Russell Wilson-type QB. From this point on, I think Pete is always going to want a true athlete at that position and that eliminates a ton of potential alternatives. Guys who can run and throw are going to be taken off the board sooner and sooner. Guys like Russell Wilson (who can manage an offense and run all over the field) are few and far between. Honestly, besides Wilson, Newton and maybe Kaepernick, there may not be any other guys in the league who give Pete exactly what he's looking for. Wilson gives Pete the added bonus of basically being his personality doppelganger in the locker room.

 

[Popeyejones]

I understand his point, and theoretically we would still be capable of winning the Super Bowl with a lesser QB.

The problem is, most people still don't think about or realize just how much our pass pro would have ruined almost any other young QB prospect. We see it happen with other NFL teams ALL THE TIME.

The only mistake I think you're making here is that you're slipping from the future tense to the past tense.

While I'd agree that the Hawks would have been much less likely to win the SB last year without Wilson, that's neither here nor there. There wasn't an interesting question to ask last year (or this year) because as a simple matter of fact Wilson was being underpaid by over 20 million dollars.

I'm sure with the benefit of hindsight we could cut 20 million dollars from the Hawks' roster last year and they'd still have a pretty good chance of winning the SB, but given that we're talking about the future, we 1) don't have the benefit of hindsight and 2) don't get to expunge all of the overpaid contracts that have already been expunged before Sherman and Thomas' money kicks in next year or Wilson's money (likely) kicks in the year after that.

So while I agree that pass pro is a problem, if we keep our eye on what we're talking about (the future) by far the most obvious place to cut is Okung, who while overpaid, plays the most important position for pass protection, and is likely the Hawks' best lineman (or most valued lineman on the open market).

 

[RolandDeschain]

I was using past facts to demonstrate the flaw in Tical's thinking, in my opinion, on this one. *shrug*

 

[HansGruber]

Hans --

You're misreading me. :lol:

Sorry if I'm partially responsible for that.

I absolutely agree with you that plenty of teams would be falling all over themselves to open the vault for Wilson. Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. It's why since my first post I've differentiated between what Wilson is "worth" (where I said he IS worth that deal for sure) and what he's worth TO THE HAWKS (which I said is an interesting question).

John Clayton already answered your question.

Russell Wilson is worth the largest QB contract in the history of the NFL, TO THE SEAHAWKS and everyone else.

Just cut the rest of the post off b/c it wasn't really on the topic.

Wrong, it is totally ON topic. Value to a football team is more than you're trying to make it. And that's my point. You're trying to argue that his value is limited to whatever skill set you find important. As if that is everything. As if marketing, fan appeal, and everything else is without actual value to NFL teams. Or as if you would even know how his skillset would be graded by the Seahawks or anyone else. You don't have the first clue how he'd play for another team. You don't even have the tools to evaluate that, because you don't work for any NFL teams and you don't even know what they're looking for. And your ridiculous attempt to question his value based on playmaking ability is even more laughable when put in contrast with what real, working NFL coaches have to say about him. It's clear that the entire NFL thinks this kid is a phenom. I'm supposed to ignore that, because some internet rando with some coaching experience questions it? Hilarious.

You don't even have the tools to analyze his value as a difference-maker to Seattle because you're not in the huddle with him, you're not hearing what calls he's getting from the OC, you have no clue what game plan Seattle is trying to play in every game or how he's grading out with the coaches. And you are making arguments that are in conflict with everything the actual Seahawks coaching staff has ever said. They've openly said there is no way they could do what they're doing without him and that he is a much bigger playmaker than anyone realizes. Other athletes are out there saying he's the best in the league. But yeah, I'll totally buy the word of some high school coach over them because your high school coaching career obviously gives you much more insight than a current active player in Washington's secondary or a member of the Seahawks coaching staff.

Warren Moon literally laughs at fans about this. How could you possibly even claim to know that some other QB could replace Wilson in Seattle, or that he would fail in another system? Seriously, I'm all ears. Warren Moon stated outright on the radio that anyone who claims to know those things is fooling themselves, and that as a viewer you don't even have the first clue about what's going on out there. Concepts in the NFL are leagues beyond even college football. So what tools have you picked up that allow you a better advantage than Warren Moon, the HOF QB, or the Seahawks coaching staff, when analyzing Wilson?

 

[EastCoastHawksFan]

- 10 years /120 million FULLY guaranteed PLUS + 5% ownership of the Seattle Seahawks -



:179417:

 

[Chawks1]

- 10 years /120 million FULLY guaranteed PLUS + 5% ownership of the Seattle Seahawks -


Yes! But instead of 5% Paul Allen agrees to just leave him the team in his will!
:179417:

 

[McGruff]

If Seattle wants to really save money and upgrade the team, it starts at upgrading Unger and Okung through the draft.

The problem with this line is, we just assume its an upgrade. Lineman are hit or miss constantly. No matter how good they look, no one, 1st round-7th round is a sure thing. And the amount of quality is suspect anyway. And who can really blame them. They play the most (besides the QB). They weigh the most. They are put through the most grueling pain and physical assertion. And yet we are surprised when they are injured all the time and begin to slow down from all of this.

We were absolutely spoiled with Big Walt. And I mean horribly spoiled. He is the anomaly in a position group that has no guarantees. Every teams lines suffer injuries every year. I would actually like to look at the stats and see if, whenever, a team has had the same start 5 lineman for a 16 game stretch.

Now with that being said, we definitely need to keep drafting OL every year (like we have been doing). And probably this year need to trade up to grab a better prospect.

I think its was not only Walt who spoiled us, but Anthony Munoz, Tony Boselli, Orlando Pace, Jonathan Ogden, Brian Walters, Lincol Kennedy, Eric Williams and a host of others in the nineties. For a while there it seemed like NFL left tackles grew on trees, but I don't think I'd put any of the current generation near those guys.

In all honesty, Okung is probably one of the top 5 in the league right now. But that just indicates how sad the state of the position has become.

 

[Popeyejones]

1) Wilson being the MUCH more naturally gifted QB and 2) stil the better QB

How could you possibly be a coach and say that Russell Wilson and Kaepernick are playing equivalent football right now? Seriously.

:?:

Cut through the chaff. Look above and read again. I quite clearly stated that Kap isn't playing equivalent football to Wilson. If there was any subtext to my post it's that I doubt he ever will.

In this thread you have a nasty habit of attributing things to me that directly contrast what I've said. I know that makes it easier to argue with "me", but you're ultimately having a disagreement with your imagination, man.

 

[Popeyejones]

I was using past facts to demonstrate the flaw in Tical's thinking, in my opinion, on this one. *shrug*

Fair enough, but that's kind of at the heart of it, as Tical's thinking was presented in the present and future tense.

The past is over. Because of Sherman, Thomas, and Wilson being (IMO) the three most underpaid players in the NFL last year the Hawks will likely never have as good of a chance of winning the Super Bowl in the next decade as they did last year (why it's sooooo great for the fans that they delivered. See: the sad reality for 9ers fans).

With Thomas and Sherman kicking in next year they'll now likely never have as good of a chance of winning a Super Bowl in the next decade as they do this year (and that's a bit diminished, because they've already had to start letting go of the Tates, Reds, Clemons', Browners, and Lanes of the world).

With Wilson then kicking in the year after that they'll likely never have as good of a chance of winning the Super Bowl in the next decade as they do that year (more talent is going to have to go, and replacing talent over time is always a game of roulette).

Just for comparison, any 9ers fan that doesn't realize that in their most likely year to win the Super Bowl in the present era they've ALREADY lost the Super Bowl on the final play and in their second most likely year to win the Super Bowl in the present era they've ALREADY lost the NFCC at the end of the game is just a total homer. And the 9ers so far have done oddly well at reloading, but the salary cap waits for no man. Are they gonna keep on hitting on the Reids and Betheas and Kilgores and Carriers and MIllers and Coxs and Brocks and Williams/Dorseys and Lynchs of the world? That's not too likely, and that's before we even talk about the REAL Pro Bowlers like Justin Smith, Mike Iupati, and Frank Gore rather than just the marginal ones like Goldson and Whitner or important role players like Brown, Walker, Goodwin, Rogers, etc.

 

[Sarlacc83]

If Seattle wants to really save money and upgrade the team, it starts at upgrading Unger and Okung through the draft.

The problem with this line is, we just assume its an upgrade. Lineman are hit or miss constantly. No matter how good they look, no one, 1st round-7th round is a sure thing. And the amount of quality is suspect anyway. And who can really blame them. They play the most (besides the QB). They weigh the most. They are put through the most grueling pain and physical assertion. And yet we are surprised when they are injured all the time and begin to slow down from all of this.

We were absolutely spoiled with Big Walt. And I mean horribly spoiled. He is the anomaly in a position group that has no guarantees. Every teams lines suffer injuries every year. I would actually like to look at the stats and see if, whenever, a team has had the same start 5 lineman for a 16 game stretch.

Now with that being said, we definitely need to keep drafting OL every year (like we have been doing). And probably this year need to trade up to grab a better prospect.

I think its was not only Walt who spoiled us, but Anthony Munoz, Tony Boselli, Orlando Pace, Jonathan Ogden, Brian Walters, Lincol Kennedy, Eric Williams and a host of others in the nineties. For a while there it seemed like NFL left tackles grew on trees, but I don't think I'd put any of the current generation near those guys.

In all honesty, Okung is probably one of the top 5 in the league right now. But that just indicates how sad the state of the position has become.

Joe Thomas may be the closest comp we have to those guys but you wouldn't know it cause he's stuck on the Browns.

 

[Evil_Shenanigans]

And would you really want to have to play against him?