Rat
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Aros":3u5g8jgu said:
It seems that way if that's all you're looking for. Fans like to ignore the right predictions because they expect it, and then eviscerate them for the ones they get wrong.
Just for Laughs 2012 Draft Grades
- Thread starter ivotuk
- Start date
It seems that way if that's all you're looking for. Fans like to ignore the right predictions because they expect it, and then eviscerate them for the ones they get wrong.
Rat
Well-known member
I know we're supposed to hate Kiper because he hasn't hit on every single prediction over the past 30 years, but looking at his past five years of Seahawks grades, he has been fair, largely complimentary, and pretty accurate:
2018: C+
“The drafting of Shaquem Griffin (pick 141) was one of the most memorable moments I can remember, and we got to experience it with him and his family. That was pretty special. But what you came for: He was also a steal! I thought Griffin could come off the board in Round 3. He accurately pointed out that Seattle can be creative on defense and find a good role for him. I agree. I like Rashaad Penny (27), but even after adding value by trading down, I saw him as a reach. I had Sony Michel rated higher, and I would have looked for running back help later. Cliff Avril is coming off an injury-plagued season and will be 32 years old. [Rasheem] Green can really help and is a young guy with upside. Will Dissly (140) is depth at tight end, and he’s the best blocking tight end in this draft. Michael Dickson (149) is a potential Pro Bowl punter, and Jamarco Jones (168) has experience and upside on the offensive line, though I could practically hear the Seattle fans in Dallas wondering why the Seahawks waited so long to address the O-line. They have a point. Not a bad draft overall, I just wonder if they could do more with the first-round pick, and the loss of that second-rounder [referring to the Sheldon Richardson trade] hurt."
This obviously wasn't part of his draft grade at the time, but he was willing to come out after the season and say that he very underrated Trey Flowers, which I think he deserves props for: “You have to hand it to Pete Carroll, who knows what he’s looking for in a defensive back. And the Seahawks found one of the steals of the draft in Tre Flowers in Round 5. He was my 24th-ranked safety, but Carroll saw him as a corner, and the 6-foot-3 Flowers became an instant starter, playing 91.1 percent of the team’s defensive snaps. He broke up six passes, forced three fumbles and had 67 total tackles. You don’t see Day 3 defensive backs make instant contributions like that often.”
2017: C+
So the defensive backfield was clearly a priority, as the Seahawks nabbed a trio of safeties, as well as a cornerback . It’s insurance everywhere for Thomas, Sherman and Kam Chancellor. And up front, the Seahawks got a great value in Malik McDowell at 35…And then there’s that pesky O-line. It’s been a mess, and Seattle added help with Ethan Pocic, who could play either center or guard. Overall, Seattle did pretty well.
2016: B+
"For the second straight year, I'm a big fan of the Seattle draft class. The Seahawks needed to add an offensive lineman or two, and got one with their first-round pick in Germain Ifedi, who is a project for O-line coach Tom Cable at tackle but could move inside to guard early on. The move up to get Jarran Reed is one of the best moments of the draft. Not only is Reed No. 21 on my final Big Board and thus a steal at No. 49, he can be plugged right into the rotation and pick up the departed snaps of Brandon Mebane. C.J. Prosise is a nice weapon because he's a running back who started out at wide receiver, so the hands are good. Nick Vannett is an underrated pass-catcher at tight end, and he actually blocks. Rees Odhiambo is another guy who can compete for a role at guard. Alex Collins is a really good runner who has had some fumbles but can make you miss in a phone booth. I think Quinton Jefferson has a chance to stick at a need position. For a team that's already good, this is a pretty good haul."
2015: A-
Grade: A-minus
Let’s start with this question: Will there be any rookie in the NFL next year who figures to be better than Jimmy Graham? In a health vacuum, I’d say no. And remember, Graham is truly the centerpiece of this draft, as he came over for the price of the 31st pick and Max Unger. Every guy drafted this week has the hope of being a star; Jimmy Graham IS a star. That’s a good grade on its own. I have to trust Seattle has vetted Frank Clark‘s off-field problems and feels comfortable bringing him in. Assuming he’s OK there, the value is pretty fair, and they could use the pass-rushing help. The pick of Tyler Lockett (they moved up for him) is one of my favorites in the entire draft. The guy is just always open, and anybody who watched the Super Bowl knows how much the Seahawks need pass-catchers who can create some separation. This is your guy. From there, you see some decent bets on offensive line help, which we know is an obvious need area. Overall, the combination of adding Graham and Lockett, plus the attempt to improve things with some new competitors to win jobs along the offensive line makes this draft a pretty good one for the Seahawks, who seem to always have a developmental plan for their picks. We often have players graded differently, but they know how to coach them up.
2014: C+
There simply isn't a better player development program in the NFL right now than Seattle's. The players the Seahawks draft --- the players I've spent many hours evaluating and making calls on -- are often players that evolve, improve and become something new after Seattle drafts them. While they've had some notable misses in round 1, both in value and development, they've been awesome thereafter. So when Seattle moved down to No. 45 overall and still had the chance to take either Stephon Tuitt or Marqise Lee, both players that would have been nice fits at No. 32, you almost had to laugh because you knew the Seahawks would go in another direction. Paul Richardson was the pick, and he hit a big need, though his lean frame is a concern. The key will be that he maintains his explosiveness as he adds some needed strength. The presence of him and a healthy Percy Harvin will keep safeties on high alert. I also thought O-Line was a necessity, and Justin Britt adds depth, but he was my 21st ranked offensive tackle, and struggles to create any movement in the run game. I saw him as a likelier fit in the third or fourth round. Again: trust their development, and they showed it again when they took what I'd kindly refer to as a deep sleeper in Jimmy Staten, a D-tackle I had at No. 44 at the position in my rankings. The Seahawks know what they're doing, but it's fair to say they had a couple value questions again today. I look forward to seeing what becomes of these players.
2018: C+
“The drafting of Shaquem Griffin (pick 141) was one of the most memorable moments I can remember, and we got to experience it with him and his family. That was pretty special. But what you came for: He was also a steal! I thought Griffin could come off the board in Round 3. He accurately pointed out that Seattle can be creative on defense and find a good role for him. I agree. I like Rashaad Penny (27), but even after adding value by trading down, I saw him as a reach. I had Sony Michel rated higher, and I would have looked for running back help later. Cliff Avril is coming off an injury-plagued season and will be 32 years old. [Rasheem] Green can really help and is a young guy with upside. Will Dissly (140) is depth at tight end, and he’s the best blocking tight end in this draft. Michael Dickson (149) is a potential Pro Bowl punter, and Jamarco Jones (168) has experience and upside on the offensive line, though I could practically hear the Seattle fans in Dallas wondering why the Seahawks waited so long to address the O-line. They have a point. Not a bad draft overall, I just wonder if they could do more with the first-round pick, and the loss of that second-rounder [referring to the Sheldon Richardson trade] hurt."
This obviously wasn't part of his draft grade at the time, but he was willing to come out after the season and say that he very underrated Trey Flowers, which I think he deserves props for: “You have to hand it to Pete Carroll, who knows what he’s looking for in a defensive back. And the Seahawks found one of the steals of the draft in Tre Flowers in Round 5. He was my 24th-ranked safety, but Carroll saw him as a corner, and the 6-foot-3 Flowers became an instant starter, playing 91.1 percent of the team’s defensive snaps. He broke up six passes, forced three fumbles and had 67 total tackles. You don’t see Day 3 defensive backs make instant contributions like that often.”
2017: C+
So the defensive backfield was clearly a priority, as the Seahawks nabbed a trio of safeties, as well as a cornerback . It’s insurance everywhere for Thomas, Sherman and Kam Chancellor. And up front, the Seahawks got a great value in Malik McDowell at 35…And then there’s that pesky O-line. It’s been a mess, and Seattle added help with Ethan Pocic, who could play either center or guard. Overall, Seattle did pretty well.
2016: B+
"For the second straight year, I'm a big fan of the Seattle draft class. The Seahawks needed to add an offensive lineman or two, and got one with their first-round pick in Germain Ifedi, who is a project for O-line coach Tom Cable at tackle but could move inside to guard early on. The move up to get Jarran Reed is one of the best moments of the draft. Not only is Reed No. 21 on my final Big Board and thus a steal at No. 49, he can be plugged right into the rotation and pick up the departed snaps of Brandon Mebane. C.J. Prosise is a nice weapon because he's a running back who started out at wide receiver, so the hands are good. Nick Vannett is an underrated pass-catcher at tight end, and he actually blocks. Rees Odhiambo is another guy who can compete for a role at guard. Alex Collins is a really good runner who has had some fumbles but can make you miss in a phone booth. I think Quinton Jefferson has a chance to stick at a need position. For a team that's already good, this is a pretty good haul."
2015: A-
Grade: A-minus
Let’s start with this question: Will there be any rookie in the NFL next year who figures to be better than Jimmy Graham? In a health vacuum, I’d say no. And remember, Graham is truly the centerpiece of this draft, as he came over for the price of the 31st pick and Max Unger. Every guy drafted this week has the hope of being a star; Jimmy Graham IS a star. That’s a good grade on its own. I have to trust Seattle has vetted Frank Clark‘s off-field problems and feels comfortable bringing him in. Assuming he’s OK there, the value is pretty fair, and they could use the pass-rushing help. The pick of Tyler Lockett (they moved up for him) is one of my favorites in the entire draft. The guy is just always open, and anybody who watched the Super Bowl knows how much the Seahawks need pass-catchers who can create some separation. This is your guy. From there, you see some decent bets on offensive line help, which we know is an obvious need area. Overall, the combination of adding Graham and Lockett, plus the attempt to improve things with some new competitors to win jobs along the offensive line makes this draft a pretty good one for the Seahawks, who seem to always have a developmental plan for their picks. We often have players graded differently, but they know how to coach them up.
2014: C+
There simply isn't a better player development program in the NFL right now than Seattle's. The players the Seahawks draft --- the players I've spent many hours evaluating and making calls on -- are often players that evolve, improve and become something new after Seattle drafts them. While they've had some notable misses in round 1, both in value and development, they've been awesome thereafter. So when Seattle moved down to No. 45 overall and still had the chance to take either Stephon Tuitt or Marqise Lee, both players that would have been nice fits at No. 32, you almost had to laugh because you knew the Seahawks would go in another direction. Paul Richardson was the pick, and he hit a big need, though his lean frame is a concern. The key will be that he maintains his explosiveness as he adds some needed strength. The presence of him and a healthy Percy Harvin will keep safeties on high alert. I also thought O-Line was a necessity, and Justin Britt adds depth, but he was my 21st ranked offensive tackle, and struggles to create any movement in the run game. I saw him as a likelier fit in the third or fourth round. Again: trust their development, and they showed it again when they took what I'd kindly refer to as a deep sleeper in Jimmy Staten, a D-tackle I had at No. 44 at the position in my rankings. The Seahawks know what they're doing, but it's fair to say they had a couple value questions again today. I look forward to seeing what becomes of these players.
jammerhawk
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With Kiper there is always a lot of after the fact rationalization of his choices and restatement of his draft grades.AT least at times he admits mistakes.
For the most part though there is an awful lot of BS that goes with their expert analysis. When they called on their grades there is rarely any admission that their view was wrong b/c that would diminish their expert status.
For sure drafting is hard b/c of the unknowns, the injuries, their football sense, the psychological strength of the players, and whether their athleticism can actually translate to being capable pro players.
Pete and John are doing it better than it has been done here before, of course they aren't perfect but their results have been above average by a good way. The team does a good job developing these young players.
For the most part though there is an awful lot of BS that goes with their expert analysis. When they called on their grades there is rarely any admission that their view was wrong b/c that would diminish their expert status.
For sure drafting is hard b/c of the unknowns, the injuries, their football sense, the psychological strength of the players, and whether their athleticism can actually translate to being capable pro players.
Pete and John are doing it better than it has been done here before, of course they aren't perfect but their results have been above average by a good way. The team does a good job developing these young players.
D
DomeHawk
Guest
To say the draft isn't an exact science is an understatement, I think that is why the Seahawk's try to get as many picks as possible every year. It's more than "if you throw enough things at the wall something is bound to stick, but there is definitely an element of that too.
Every year I listen to our local sport's radio hosts make their evals and often they are WAY too enthusiastic in their assessments. I think a big part of that is their personal agendas, i.e., they need to have access to the organization if they want to remain viable in their positions. For others not local, the exact opposite agenda might define their views.
Hindsight is 20/20.
Every year I listen to our local sport's radio hosts make their evals and often they are WAY too enthusiastic in their assessments. I think a big part of that is their personal agendas, i.e., they need to have access to the organization if they want to remain viable in their positions. For others not local, the exact opposite agenda might define their views.
Hindsight is 20/20.
Pandion Haliaetus
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Russ Willstrong":csxopgbi said:
Bobby Wagner’s college film was incredibly boring. He wasn’t showboaty or flashy. He played cool, calm, and calculated. He was consistent in fulfilling his duties and he made it look easy.
I got similar vibes from watching Barton in that he was more boring than exciting. More calculated in his approach than it being just intense energy or pure athleticism.
Guys like Barton have more staying power in this league compared to a high-ceiling guy like Aaron Curry. Guys that had to master their position and craft much like they would master chess. They dissect their opponent, they pattern recognize, and they execute strategy playing 10 steps ahead.
Not saying Barton is going to be Wagner 2.0. Wagner was weird in that he possessed all the intangibles, the mental fortitude, and great athleticism. But I get his criticism in your quote... I’ll agree that it was short-sighted only because his level of competition at Utah St. didn’t give him the opportunity to fully sharpen that part of his game through experience. Once Wagner got into the league, get experience against stronger players/better competition that he was able to learn, adapt, and transform his physical approach getting stronger, stouter, tougher and simply more comfortable in attacking the LOS through blocks.
Barton I see has some who can be immediately a solid to above average depth piece, eventually getting his opportunity, hit his stride, and forge himself into at least being a dependably consistent starter. He might not have the athletic or physical ceiling of some his peers. But he possesses imo enough athletiic/physical traits paired with what seems to be a high football IQ/ strategic understanding and a tough, no-nonsense approach to his Professionalism/craft to be a very solid and again a consistently dependable player if not more.
