Lock to Giants

[Glasgow Seahawk]

Who knows. Rob Staton has been wondering if they're going to try to move up to target someone they like. Perhaps Maye or McCarthy. I have no idea if any of these guys are worth what it would cost. But our coaches should know these guys inside out, given how recently they were at Michigan and Washington.

We don't have much to move up with though. I wouldn't give up 2025 picks as they may be top 10 ones depending on how the season goes.

The Aaron Rodgers news about running for office may complicate things if the Jets are forced to draft a QB high as well.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

I think Schneider made a huge mistake in not letting Geno walk. No one else in the NFL thought he was worth the kind of money we're paying. As a result, we're stuck with him and we lose Lock. I think there's a chance Lock proves himself a true franchise QB. If not, he would have won about as many games as Smith. This was a lose-lose. But just another short-sighted, myopic move like the Hawks have been known for under Carroll and Schneider.

Coming into the off season, we didn't know how much was Carroll and how much was Schneider. We still don't know. I was impressed by the coaching moves but color me unimpressed by the roster moves so far. Except for holding back on the big, splashy free agents. We'll see if he's smart and strategic enough to wind up with some compensatory picks. I think the trade for Williams was idiotic but I sound like a broken record. Signing him for three years as 21.5M per strikes me as right on the line. Hoping for the best but would not be surprised if we wind up looking back on this move with regret. We've not done well with third contracts in the past.

This take on Geno is weird because if he’s the starter this year, in the last 2 years plus this one, he would have only accounted for about $40 mil of cap space used, plus the 2025 dead cap charge of $13.5m. Essentially only $18m per year for an above average starter.

If Lock proves to be a true franchise QB it’s funny he couldn’t beat out Geno to be that guy and now signed another backup contract.

 

[JayhawkMike]

They have $20-$25m in actual cap space to work with, after the Williams & Fant signings. Still a ton of holes to fill. They probably viewed Queen & Lock as too costly. Given what they have to work with.

They're waiting for the prices to come down a little.

But they didn't fell that way about Geno. Though I do.

 

[JayhawkMike]

This take on Geno is weird because if he’s the starter this year, in the last 2 years plus this one, he would have only accounted for about $40 mil of cap space used, plus the 2025 dead cap charge of $13.5m. Essentially only $18m per year for an above average starter.

If Lock proves to be a true franchise QB it’s funny he couldn’t beat out Geno to be that guy and now signed another backup contract.

we should run a poll of those that think Lock got a legit chance to start and those who think Geno was a Friend of Pete so really had no chance to lose

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

I think we have to and I wouldn't rule out the Giants picking someone either. My guess is Lock has the inside track to start because they've given up on Jones.

We don't have much to move up with though. I wouldn't give up 2025 picks as they may be top 10 ones depending on how the season goes.

The Aaron Rodgers news about running for office may complicate things if the Jets are forced to draft a QB high as well.

Uh, will he actually be able to do that being that he’s on contract?

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

 

[nwHawk]

Drew should have gone to a better situation. NY is a pile of crap.

 

[Parallax]

We don't have much to move up with though. I wouldn't give up 2025 picks as they may be top 10 ones depending on how the season goes.

The Aaron Rodgers news about running for office may complicate things if the Jets are forced to draft a QB high as well.

I'm with you. Not a fan of moving up because it generally means paying a king's ransom, which is rarely smart. When KC moved up to grab Mahomes, it didn't cost them much.

I also agree that trading future picks is not a good idea when the team may be stepping back for a bit.

 

[Parallax]

This take on Geno is weird because if he’s the starter this year, in the last 2 years plus this one, he would have only accounted for about $40 mil of cap space used, plus the 2025 dead cap charge of $13.5m. Essentially only $18m per year for an above average starter.

If Lock proves to be a true franchise QB it’s funny he couldn’t beat out Geno to be that guy and now signed another backup contract.

My sense is he was never given the chance. Geno was Pete's guy.

 

[Parallax]

Drew should have gone to a better situation. NY is a pile of crap.

Had the same thought. If he had stuck around, I think the new coaches would have given him a real chance. We're paying Geno whether he starts or not. No reason to keep Lock on the bench if he were the better QB.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Yeah.

I mean...

I like Lock a lot. That said, he had starting opportunities in Denver and Pete saw him compete for two years every week in practice against a middle tier starting QB. He had some sticks. I do wish him the best in New Jersey. It will be interesting to watch .net explode Scanners style if he balls out there.

Like that would ever happen he is a never will be. Bad thing is everyone now knows quarterback is definitely in play for us in the draft.

Though I never thought he was given a real shot here which was stupid because he definitely had a far better connection to Bobo and JSN unlike the scrub that is masquerading as our starting quarterback.

 

[bileever]

Daniel Jones is only a few plays away from being benched, with his propensity to turn the ball over in the most creative of ways. Not to mention his injury history. Giants can move away from Jones after 2024, so if he's not playing well, they won't hesitate to sit him. I think Lock is betting that Jones has a better chance of melting down than Geno.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

My sense is he was never given the chance. Geno was Pete's guy.

Geno was also QBing in the restraints of Waldron’s offensive scheme. It’s not like they tailored the scheme around Geno’s strengths and weaknesses or even the WRs strengths or weaknesses like they did in the first half of 2022 when they had zero expectations and were essentially playing with house money in terms of going with the flow. At some point in that 2nd half of 2022 and 2023 they dialed it back obviously there were issues at that time with the Oline that lead to a lot of regression in both the run game and passing game but it felt to me that there was a lot of forcing things that weren’t working specifically Pete Ball elements as well as a poor game plan in terms of utilizing all your weapons effectively especially in ‘23. The offense had zero identity schematically in a lot of games especially the deeper they got into each season and when the opponents had more film , essentially it was just players making plays, players that were executing the scheme, rather than executing the scheme around the players strengths and weaknesses.

For Geno, getting Grubb was probably the best case scenario for him, what I’ve seen Penix do the last 2 years is very reflective on what Geno has also done well the last 2 years. They also both share similar weaknesses in their games that will make it easier for Grubb to game plan around. Skill position wise Grubb has something similar at is disposable in what he was able to do at UW creating one of the best offenses in College football, they just need to fix the Oline, big task, and then create the scheme around the players to enforce an identity that fits them rather than the other way around.

Geno has a very good chance to excel in a Grubb type of offense. It very much fits him in both his ceiling and floor. Lock I’m not so sure as he doesn’t stay as poised in the pocket and has an affinity to bail to try make something happen on his own and while he does have quality arm strength, he doesn’t have the deep passing touch and accuracy like Geno does. And that’s going to be a crucial element for success.

 

[Parallax]

Geno was also QBing in the restraints of Waldron’s offensive scheme. It’s not like they tailored the scheme around Geno’s strengths and weaknesses or even the WRs strengths or weaknesses like they did in the first half of 2022 when they had zero expectations and were essentially playing with house money in terms of going with the flow. At some point in that 2nd half of 2022 and 2023 they dialed it back obviously there were issues at that time with the Oline that lead to a lot of regression in both the run game and passing game but it felt to me that there was a lot of forcing things that weren’t working specifically Pete Ball elements as well as a poor game plan in terms of utilizing all your weapons effectively especially in ‘23. The offense had zero identity schematically in a lot of games especially the deeper they got into each season and when the opponents had more film , essentially it was just players making plays, players that were executing the scheme, rather than executing the scheme around the players strengths and weaknesses.

For Geno, getting Grubb was probably the best case scenario for him, what I’ve seen Penix do the last 2 years is very reflective on what Geno has also done well the last 2 years. They also both share similar weaknesses in their games that will make it easier for Grubb to game plan around. Skill position wise Grubb has something similar at is disposable in what he was able to do at UW creating one of the best offenses in College football, they just need to fix the Oline, big task, and then create the scheme around the players to enforce an identity that fits them rather than the other way around.

Geno has a very good chance to excel in a Grubb type of offense. It very much fits him in both his ceiling and floor. Lock I’m not so sure as he doesn’t stay as poised in the pocket and has an affinity to bail to try make something happen on his own and while he does have quality arm strength, he doesn’t have the deep passing touch and accuracy like Geno does. And that’s going to be a crucial element for success.

Color me skeptical. The NFL is so different from college and, say what you will about Geno, his arm talent is nowhere near that of Penix. There are throws Penix can make that even Mahomes doesn't make as well. At his best, perfectly placed, layered throws between defenders, where only the receiver can catch it. I don't know if Penix will be able to use that superpower effectively in the NFL but I know that Smith is not remotely as talented.

I agree with you that defenses figured out our O. First half of 2022, Geno and the fellas were an unknown. I don't think it's an accident he regressed. He made some good throws and good plays toward the end of 2023 but it was against lesser opponents. When faced with real competition, Geno has not shown he can elevate his game. If anything, he tends to collapse.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

Color me skeptical. The NFL is so different from college and, say what you will about Geno, his arm talent is nowhere near that of Penix. There are throws Penix can make that even Mahomes doesn't make as well. At his best, perfectly placed, layered throws between defenders, where only the receiver can catch it. I don't know if Penix will be able to use that superpower effectively in the NFL but I know that Smith is not remotely as talented.

I agree with you that defenses figured out our O. First half of 2022, Geno and the fellas were an unknown. I don't think it's an accident he regressed. He made some good throws and good plays toward the end of 2023 but it was against lesser opponents. When faced with real competition, Geno has not shown he can elevate his game. If anything, he tends to collapse.

Not really comparing whether Grubbs offense will work in the NFL as it did it college or really if Geno is better than Penix. Just that they have a similar game and QB style in terms in their strengths and weaknesses and how they go about their business.

What I was really eluding to was that Geno is a much better fit for Grubb’s offensive vision more so than Lock is. And that you shouldn’t sell Geno short because of what he did running an offensive system that wasn’t necessarily tailored to his strengths, he got the job in the first place merely because the first guy couldn’t execute it and the third guy couldn’t outcompete him for it. Geno has shown while he obviously has limitations, that in whole he has some quality to his game and for what he has been paid thus far is not as perplexing as some people make it out to be. I’m just saying Geno has a chance to level up one more time running an offense that is going to be more suited and more tailored around not only what he does well but what everyone else around him does well too.

 

[Parallax]

Not really comparing whether Grubbs offense will work in the NFL as it did it college or really if Geno is better than Penix. Just that they have a similar game and QB style in terms in their strengths and weaknesses and how they go about their business.

What I was really eluding to was that Geno is a much better fit for Grubb’s offensive vision more so than Lock is. And that you shouldn’t sell Geno short because of what he did running an offensive system that wasn’t necessarily tailored to his strengths, he got the job in the first place merely because the first guy couldn’t execute it and the third guy couldn’t outcompete him for it. Geno has shown while he obviously has limitations, that in whole he has some quality to his game and for what he has been paid thus far is not as perplexing as some people make it out to be. I’m just saying Geno has a chance to level up one more time running an offense that is going to be more suited and more tailored around not only what he does well but what everyone else around him does well too.

Please say more. You see Geno as a pocket passer, who evades but isn't really a runner, with a strong and accurate arm for downfield passes? Is that where you see him more capable than Lock?

I see Lock as a guy who can do those things and more, with more mobility and a stronger arm. I see his shortcoming as lack of consistency and frequently failing to make smart decisions in real time. I'll be curious to see if he does better going forward, though as others have said, the Giants seem like a terrible place to try to develop or showcase one's talents.

 

[12forlife]

Either Grubb wants his guy (Penix) or we're gonna get Fields.

At some point, they gonna have to put some peeps on the team...aren't they?

Have to include JJ & Nix in the hat aswell.

 

[Parallax]

Have to include JJ & Nix in the hat aswell.

Trading for Fields, unless we got him for a 6th or 7th, would be another boneheaded move. He's not a franchise QB and it's a one-year rental because no one is picking up his 5th year option. Then he goes to the highest bidder.

 

[12forlife]

Trading for Fields, unless we got him for a 6th or 7th, would be another boneheaded move. He's not a franchise QB and it's a one-year rental because no one is picking up his 5th year option. Then he goes to the highest bidder.

Lmao call me crazy. I would rather see what Grubb can concoct with Fields if we got him on the cheap? I feel there is potentially a higher ceiling for Fields, I think we saw Geno's in '22?

 

[Parallax]

Lmao call me crazy. I would rather see what Grubb can concoct with Fields if we got him on the cheap? I feel there is potentially a higher ceiling for Fields, I think we saw Geno's in '22?

That's fine but not at the price of a first or second, which is what the Bears are saying they want. At that price, I'd tell 'em to pound sand.