Make No Mistake The 49ers are the Real Threat NOT the Rams

[Marvin49]

And hey, I doubt the Eagle's fans expected them to lose at home to the Lions.
And I seriously doubt the Rams fans thought they would get dominated at home by the Bucs.

Pretty much all that I have maintained through this year so far is that the 49ers are doing what good teams do....IE, they are winning games they are supposed to win.

Nothing more can really be discerned.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

It gets old being told "you haven't beaten anyone yet"
Well, if you beat all the teams you're supposed to, what else can you do??
Unfortunately, a lot of "12s" (totally different than true Seahawks fans) get mad if a WIN doesn't look a certain way. If they don't blow a team out, the win isn't good enough.

 

[Marvin49]

It gets old being told "you haven't beaten anyone yet"
Well, if you beat all the teams you're supposed to, what else can you do??
Unfortunately, a lot of "12s" (totally different than true Seahawks fans) get mad if a WIN doesn't look a certain way. If they don't blow a team out, the win isn't good enough.

This ain't college. There are no style points.

Not every win will be pretty. A win is a win is a win.

Many Niner fans will say "we have sucked and got lucky to win". I say "We didn't play well in weeks 1 and 3 and STILL WON".

Anyway. A lot of football left to be played. For all I know, Niners go 0-13 from this point on. All I can do is be happy with what I've seen so far.

 

[knownone]

The biggest difference between the Seahawks and 49ers from a perception stand point, is that Seattle has a proven track record and the 49ers do not. Neither team has impressive wins against good teams.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

The way this team plays the games and how Pete likes it, you have to embrace the Ugly.
Exactly why they RARELY lose by 10 points. And they don't blow teams out that often, even if they are capable.

 

[Marvin49]

The biggest difference between the Seahawks and 49ers from a perception stand point, is that Seattle has a proven track record and the 49ers do not. Neither team has impressive wins against good teams.

That's fair....and moreover its one reason why they aren't talked about like the Pats who played the Steelers (1-3), Dolphins (0-4), Jets (0-3) before playing the Bills this week. Now the Pats get Redskins, Giants, and Jets in the next three weeks.

How much ya wanna bet nobody says "look who they've played".

I get it. Niners need to earn the respect...and to be honest I don't really even mind it. Just funny to me.

 

[Maulbert]

The biggest difference between the Seahawks and 49ers from a perception stand point, is that Seattle has a proven track record and the 49ers do not. Neither team has impressive wins against good teams.

That's fair....and moreover its one reason why they aren't talked about like the Pats who played the Steelers (1-3), Dolphins (0-4), Jets (0-3) before playing the Bills this week. Now the Pats get Redskins, Giants, and Jets in the next three weeks.

How much ya wanna bet nobody says "look who they've played".

I get it. Niners need to earn the respect...and to be honest I don't really even mind it. Just funny to me.

The Pats are good, no denying that, but their schedule is what they line dumpsters with. I guarantee they won't lose until at least November, when they visit Baltimore and Philadelphia. They host the Cowboys after that, and the Chiefs in early December. Those are their only potential losses, IMO.

 

[chris98251]

Pats get about 12 passes a year it seems in the AFC, with the Steelers playing the way they are and no Luck or Manning in Indy and Ravens looking like they are about to collapse also the AFC less the Chargers, Chiefs is pretty much a cake walk every year for them. Let them have to take on the NFC Central and NFC West and South year in and year out rotating and we would see them a lot more mortal.

 

[NINEster]

The biggest difference between the Seahawks and 49ers from a perception stand point, is that Seattle has a proven track record and the 49ers do not. Neither team has impressive wins against good teams.

That's fair....and moreover its one reason why they aren't talked about like the Pats who played the Steelers (1-3), Dolphins (0-4), Jets (0-3) before playing the Bills this week. Now the Pats get Redskins, Giants, and Jets in the next three weeks.

How much ya wanna bet nobody says "look who they've played".

I get it. Niners need to earn the respect...and to be honest I don't really even mind it. Just funny to me.

The Pats are good, no denying that, but their schedule is what they line dumpsters with. I guarantee they won't lose until at least November, when they visit Baltimore and Philadelphia. They host the Cowboys after that, and the Chiefs in early December. Those are their only potential losses, IMO.

In theory, but that's unlikely to happen.

If you look at every NFL team that didn't play worse than 2-14 or 16-0, there will always be surprise teams they lost to without fail.

In 2016, how many of you would have bet your paycheck that the Seahawks would lose to the Bucs but beat the Pats on the road?

The Pats will drop against someone you wouldn't expect, just because.

The NFL is still largely a league where trap games exist, so at the very least you have to expect it.

 

[NINEster]

The biggest difference between the Seahawks and 49ers from a perception stand point, is that Seattle has a proven track record and the 49ers do not. Neither team has impressive wins against good teams.

That's fair....and moreover its one reason why they aren't talked about like the Pats who played the Steelers (1-3), Dolphins (0-4), Jets (0-3) before playing the Bills this week. Now the Pats get Redskins, Giants, and Jets in the next three weeks.

How much ya wanna bet nobody says "look who they've played".

I get it. Niners need to earn the respect...and to be honest I don't really even mind it. Just funny to me.

Proving it is a very real thing. The Texans in the early JJ Watt years were that hot team that was on the rise and should have made noise if Schaub didn't get hurt that 2011 season.

Then they come out on fire the next year and face the Patriots and get massacred. Mind you they had that type of team that would give the Patriots problems those years (great defense, great running game).....but they just couldn't hack it.

So they had the eye test, but couldn't finish.

What the 49ers have is a bit of the eye test. After 3 games we're seeing something that should be getting attention. Not a fluke to be 3-0. Harbaugh couldn't pull that off with a top 3 team....

Now a question to see the team's mettle. We'll know a lot more in coming weeks, but probably not everything.

 

[5_Golden_Rings]

The biggest difference between the Seahawks and 49ers from a perception stand point, is that Seattle has a proven track record and the 49ers do not. Neither team has impressive wins against good teams.

That's fair....and moreover its one reason why they aren't talked about like the Pats who played the Steelers (1-3), Dolphins (0-4), Jets (0-3) before playing the Bills this week. Now the Pats get Redskins, Giants, and Jets in the next three weeks.

How much ya wanna bet nobody says "look who they've played".

I get it. Niners need to earn the respect...and to be honest I don't really even mind it. Just funny to me.

Proving it is a very real thing. The Texans in the early JJ Watt years were that hot team that was on the rise and should have made noise if Schaub didn't get hurt that 2011 season.

Then they come out on fire the next year and face the Patriots and get massacred. Mind you they had that type of team that would give the Patriots problems those years (great defense, great running game).....but they just couldn't hack it.

So they had the eye test, but couldn't finish.

What the 49ers have is a bit of the eye test. After 3 games we're seeing something that should be getting attention. Not a fluke to be 3-0. Harbaugh couldn't pull that off with a top 3 team....

Now a question to see the team's mettle. We'll know a lot more in coming weeks, but probably not everything.

My eye test is saying the 49ers aren't there yet. The defense is good, but not as dominant as it was in 2011 per the eye test. Not to mention, unlike in 2011, there are two really good teams in division they have to play twice each. The offense is better than 2011, at least in terms of yards. but it is less reliable, turning the ball over too much.

But it's not the 49ers alone that make me unwilling to jump on the "great team" bandwagon, it's the other teams (which I already alluded to). You know who else passes the "eye test?" The Seahawks. And yeah, the Rams got blasted by Tampa Bay, but their defensive line, when it's on, is still horrifying, and yeah, Goff has problems, but when he gets some time those WRs can and will get open down the field.

So, until the 49ers play an actual dominant game (to be defined shortly), I'm not sold . The Bengals game was a blowout, but it was not a "dominant" game in the sense that I mean. For an example of dominance, look at the 1995 49ers from the Dallas game and the Dolphins. First of all, in those two games (against two playoff teams, by the way), it wasn't just the final score that was lopsided. It was immediate domination on both sides of the ball from the first series. There was no question who was winning those games after only a few plays in.

For the Dallas game, it was the 49ers scoring a long touchdown with Rice on the second play from scrimmage, followed by a fumble return touchdown by Mertin Hanks on the Cowboys very second play. You would think it was a fluke, but the very next Cowboys possession had a 2 yard Emmitt Smith run, a 5 yard pass to Jay Novecek, followed by Aikman being pressured into an interception to Ricky Jackson, which resulted in a 17-0 lead before three minutes had passed, and the half finished with the score 31-7. That is dominance.

The following week, against the Dan Marino led Dolphins, the game starts out like this: 49ers kick off; Dan Marino sacked by Bryant Young; Dan Marino sacked by Bryant Young; Dan Marino sacked by Rickey Jackson. Four scrimmage plays later and the 49ers score a touchdown. That one was "only" 24-7 at half time, and they cruised to win 44-20.

Now, against the Rams the next week they started a little slow, as Steve Young was making his return and he was a bit rusty (also Rice fumbled at the 1 yard line), but that one quickly became a snooze fest, too, as the dominant 49ers defense and the Young to Rice combination led to a 28-7 half time lead and a final score of 41-13.

38-20 against one of the best teams ever assembled, 44-20 against the playoff bound Dan Marino led Dolphins, and 41-13 against a Rams team that started the season 4-0 (lesson!).

That was true dominance, and you could feel it. There was a relentless anger to the defense. It was absolutely swarming and suffocating during that run, no matter who they played, even against one of the best offensive lines of all time.




So, when I compare that true dominance to what I'm seeing from the 49ers now, today's 49ers pale in comparison. What I'm seeing now is a 49ers team hanging on and holding on early when they make the kinds of mistakes losing teams make, and then slightly superior talent and good scheming leading to victories that they really shouldn't have gotten based on how they started (with the exception of the Bengals, who are just bad).

These 49ers will be utter pretenders unless they start playing near perfect games. They have to get their heads out of their butts and play like winners, rather than losers with a lot of scrap and fight in them. What do I mean by that? Simple: winners don't consistently shoot themselves in the foot, every single game. They might have one game once in a while where they lay an egg and have to fight and scrap to come back, but usually they take care of business on just about every snap.

The 49ers are NOT playing winning football right now. They are just playing teams who are playing worse. If they want to make a run, they need to tighten up that ship immediately.

 

[Marvin49]

The biggest difference between the Seahawks and 49ers from a perception stand point, is that Seattle has a proven track record and the 49ers do not. Neither team has impressive wins against good teams.

That's fair....and moreover its one reason why they aren't talked about like the Pats who played the Steelers (1-3), Dolphins (0-4), Jets (0-3) before playing the Bills this week. Now the Pats get Redskins, Giants, and Jets in the next three weeks.

How much ya wanna bet nobody says "look who they've played".

I get it. Niners need to earn the respect...and to be honest I don't really even mind it. Just funny to me.

Proving it is a very real thing. The Texans in the early JJ Watt years were that hot team that was on the rise and should have made noise if Schaub didn't get hurt that 2011 season.

Then they come out on fire the next year and face the Patriots and get massacred. Mind you they had that type of team that would give the Patriots problems those years (great defense, great running game).....but they just couldn't hack it.

So they had the eye test, but couldn't finish.

What the 49ers have is a bit of the eye test. After 3 games we're seeing something that should be getting attention. Not a fluke to be 3-0. Harbaugh couldn't pull that off with a top 3 team....

Now a question to see the team's mettle. We'll know a lot more in coming weeks, but probably not everything.

My eye test is saying the 49ers aren't there yet. The defense is good, but not as dominant as it was in 2011 per the eye test. Not to mention, unlike in 2011, there are two really good teams in division they have to play twice each. The offense is better than 2011, at least in terms of yards. but it is less reliable, turning the ball over too much.

But it's not the 49ers alone that make me unwilling to jump on the "great team" bandwagon, it's the other teams (which I already alluded to). You know who else passes the "eye test?" The Seahawks. And yeah, the Rams got blasted by Tampa Bay, but their defensive line, when it's on, is still horrifying, and yeah, Goff has problems, but when he gets some time those WRs can and will get open down the field.

So, until the 49ers play an actual dominant game (to be defined shortly), I'm not sold . The Bengals game was a blowout, but it was not a "dominant" game in the sense that I mean. For an example of dominance, look at the 1995 49ers from the Dallas game and the Dolphins. First of all, in those two games (against two playoff teams, by the way), it wasn't just the final score that was lopsided. It was immediate domination on both sides of the ball from the first series. There was no question who was winning those games after only a few plays in.

For the Dallas game, it was the 49ers scoring a long touchdown with Rice on the second play from scrimmage, followed by a fumble return touchdown by Mertin Hanks on the Cowboys very second play. You would think it was a fluke, but the very next Cowboys possession had a 2 yard Emmitt Smith run, a 5 yard pass to Jay Novecek, followed by Aikman being pressured into an interception to Ricky Jackson, which resulted in a 17-0 lead before three minutes had passed, and the half finished with the score 31-7. That is dominance.

The following week, against the Dan Marino led Dolphins, the game starts out like this: 49ers kick off; Dan Marino sacked by Bryant Young; Dan Marino sacked by Bryant Young; Dan Marino sacked by Rickey Jackson. Four scrimmage plays later and the 49ers score a touchdown. That one was "only" 24-7 at half time, and they cruised to win 44-20.

Now, against the Rams the next week they started a little slow, as Steve Young was making his return and he was a bit rusty (also Rice fumbled at the 1 yard line), but that one quickly became a snooze fest, too, as the dominant 49ers defense and the Young to Rice combination led to a 28-7 half time lead and a final score of 41-13.

38-20 against one of the best teams ever assembled, 44-20 against the playoff bound Dan Marino led Dolphins, and 41-13 against a Rams team that started the season 4-0 (lesson!).

That was true dominance, and you could feel it. There was a relentless anger to the defense. It was absolutely swarming and suffocating during that run, no matter who they played, even against one of the best offensive lines of all time.




So, when I compare that true dominance to what I'm seeing from the 49ers now, today's 49ers pale in comparison. What I'm seeing now is a 49ers team hanging on and holding on early when they make the kinds of mistakes losing teams make, and then slightly superior talent and good scheming leading to victories that they really shouldn't have gotten based on how they started (with the exception of the Bengals, who are just bad).

These 49ers will be utter pretenders unless they start playing near perfect games. They have to get their heads out of their butts and play like winners, rather than losers with a lot of scrap and fight in them. What do I mean by that? Simple: winners don't consistently shoot themselves in the foot, every single game. They might have one game once in a while where they lay an egg and have to fight and scrap to come back, but usually they take care of business on just about every snap.

The 49ers are NOT playing winning football right now. They are just playing teams who are playing worse. If they want to make a run, they need to tighten up that ship immediately.

Couple things...

1) If you are gonna use the 2011 team as the defensive blueprint, you are going to be disappointed. A LOT. Niners may NEVER have another front 7 like that. It isn't a requirement.

2) NOBODY is putting them on the "great team" bandwagon. We are looking for "Competent" or "Good team with a shot at the playoffs".


I think the level of domination you are looking for would put them in rarefied air in the NFL and I don't think anyone (or at least not on THIS site) is putting them anywhere near that echelon.

 

[NINEster]

I appreciate 5 Golden Rings' history lesson here, however in the 2019 NFL, you're rarely ever going to get such disciplined play for 60 minutes, let alone from a young up and coming teams.

As I've said many times before on here and on the Zone, you don't know what you have until November/December, and in Shanahan's case he has fielded a superior team each December to the respective September.

The big difference now is he's 3-0, not 0-3, or 1-2. The only reason why Mullens was even a thing is because the November/December Shanahan offense is for real. We've seen it with both Jimmy (oh yes, Jimmy), and Mullens making it happen when all the moving pieces on the field have their act together, which seemingly is tougher for them to do in September. The expectation is that the December offense this year will be better than it was even two years ago when Jimmy first started.

My gut instinct is if the 49ers stay healthy they'll become a force in December. I don't want any outside help, just Staley and Witherspoon back and this team will be ready to battle Seattle, Rams, Cowboys, Eagles, whomever.

 

[Fade]

My forecast was mostly right, but what I would tweak is the Rams OLine didn't fall off as I expected, so I think it is a true 3 team race.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/TurfShowTimes/status/1179139290498027520[/tweet]

I it appears I jumped the gun on this. I should have stuck with my original forecast.The Rams O-Line did fall off as I originally stated.

This is a big issue for them. They can only go as far as their O-Line can take them. Goff & Gurley need pristine play upfront to be effective.

How are fans feeling about the Rams O-Line in general? I need a scouting report.

 

[Maulbert]

My forecast was mostly right, but what I would tweak is the Rams OLine didn't fall off as I expected, so I think it is a true 3 team race.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/TurfShowTimes/status/1179139290498027520[/tweet]

I it appears I jumped the gun on this. I should have stuck with my original forecast.The Rams O-Line has fallen off as I originally stated.

This is a big issue for them. They can only go as far as their O-Line can take them. Goff & Gurley need pristine play upfront to be effective.

How are fans feeling about the Rams O-Line in general? I need a scouting report.

Did they stealth-hire Cable?

 

[5_Golden_Rings]

That's fair....and moreover its one reason why they aren't talked about like the Pats who played the Steelers (1-3), Dolphins (0-4), Jets (0-3) before playing the Bills this week. Now the Pats get Redskins, Giants, and Jets in the next three weeks.

How much ya wanna bet nobody says "look who they've played".

I get it. Niners need to earn the respect...and to be honest I don't really even mind it. Just funny to me.

Proving it is a very real thing. The Texans in the early JJ Watt years were that hot team that was on the rise and should have made noise if Schaub didn't get hurt that 2011 season.

Then they come out on fire the next year and face the Patriots and get massacred. Mind you they had that type of team that would give the Patriots problems those years (great defense, great running game).....but they just couldn't hack it.

So they had the eye test, but couldn't finish.

What the 49ers have is a bit of the eye test. After 3 games we're seeing something that should be getting attention. Not a fluke to be 3-0. Harbaugh couldn't pull that off with a top 3 team....

Now a question to see the team's mettle. We'll know a lot more in coming weeks, but probably not everything.

My eye test is saying the 49ers aren't there yet. The defense is good, but not as dominant as it was in 2011 per the eye test. Not to mention, unlike in 2011, there are two really good teams in division they have to play twice each. The offense is better than 2011, at least in terms of yards. but it is less reliable, turning the ball over too much.

But it's not the 49ers alone that make me unwilling to jump on the "great team" bandwagon, it's the other teams (which I already alluded to). You know who else passes the "eye test?" The Seahawks. And yeah, the Rams got blasted by Tampa Bay, but their defensive line, when it's on, is still horrifying, and yeah, Goff has problems, but when he gets some time those WRs can and will get open down the field.

So, until the 49ers play an actual dominant game (to be defined shortly), I'm not sold . The Bengals game was a blowout, but it was not a "dominant" game in the sense that I mean. For an example of dominance, look at the 1995 49ers from the Dallas game and the Dolphins. First of all, in those two games (against two playoff teams, by the way), it wasn't just the final score that was lopsided. It was immediate domination on both sides of the ball from the first series. There was no question who was winning those games after only a few plays in.

For the Dallas game, it was the 49ers scoring a long touchdown with Rice on the second play from scrimmage, followed by a fumble return touchdown by Mertin Hanks on the Cowboys very second play. You would think it was a fluke, but the very next Cowboys possession had a 2 yard Emmitt Smith run, a 5 yard pass to Jay Novecek, followed by Aikman being pressured into an interception to Ricky Jackson, which resulted in a 17-0 lead before three minutes had passed, and the half finished with the score 31-7. That is dominance.

The following week, against the Dan Marino led Dolphins, the game starts out like this: 49ers kick off; Dan Marino sacked by Bryant Young; Dan Marino sacked by Bryant Young; Dan Marino sacked by Rickey Jackson. Four scrimmage plays later and the 49ers score a touchdown. That one was "only" 24-7 at half time, and they cruised to win 44-20.

Now, against the Rams the next week they started a little slow, as Steve Young was making his return and he was a bit rusty (also Rice fumbled at the 1 yard line), but that one quickly became a snooze fest, too, as the dominant 49ers defense and the Young to Rice combination led to a 28-7 half time lead and a final score of 41-13.

38-20 against one of the best teams ever assembled, 44-20 against the playoff bound Dan Marino led Dolphins, and 41-13 against a Rams team that started the season 4-0 (lesson!).

That was true dominance, and you could feel it. There was a relentless anger to the defense. It was absolutely swarming and suffocating during that run, no matter who they played, even against one of the best offensive lines of all time.




So, when I compare that true dominance to what I'm seeing from the 49ers now, today's 49ers pale in comparison. What I'm seeing now is a 49ers team hanging on and holding on early when they make the kinds of mistakes losing teams make, and then slightly superior talent and good scheming leading to victories that they really shouldn't have gotten based on how they started (with the exception of the Bengals, who are just bad).

These 49ers will be utter pretenders unless they start playing near perfect games. They have to get their heads out of their butts and play like winners, rather than losers with a lot of scrap and fight in them. What do I mean by that? Simple: winners don't consistently shoot themselves in the foot, every single game. They might have one game once in a while where they lay an egg and have to fight and scrap to come back, but usually they take care of business on just about every snap.

The 49ers are NOT playing winning football right now. They are just playing teams who are playing worse. If they want to make a run, they need to tighten up that ship immediately.

Couple things...

1) If you are gonna use the 2011 team as the defensive blueprint, you are going to be disappointed. A LOT. Niners may NEVER have another front 7 like that. It isn't a requirement.

2) NOBODY is putting them on the "great team" bandwagon. We are looking for "Competent" or "Good team with a shot at the playoffs".


I think the level of domination you are looking for would put them in rarefied air in the NFL and I don't think anyone (or at least not on THIS site) is putting them anywhere near that echelon.

I appreciate 5 Golden Rings' history lesson here, however in the 2019 NFL, you're rarely ever going to get such disciplined play for 60 minutes, let alone from a young up and coming teams.

As I've said many times before on here and on the Zone, you don't know what you have until November/December, and in Shanahan's case he has fielded a superior team each December to the respective September.

The big difference now is he's 3-0, not 0-3, or 1-2. The only reason why Mullens was even a thing is because the November/December Shanahan offense is for real. We've seen it with both Jimmy (oh yes, Jimmy), and Mullens making it happen when all the moving pieces on the field have their act together, which seemingly is tougher for them to do in September. The expectation is that the December offense this year will be better than it was even two years ago when Jimmy first started.

My gut instinct is if the 49ers stay healthy they'll become a force in December. I don't want any outside help, just Staley and Witherspoon back and this team will be ready to battle Seattle, Rams, Cowboys, Eagles, whomever.

I'm looking for ONE game of that kind of dominance. Maybe two, maybe even three. A championship contender will do that at least once per season, usually two or three times. The Bengals game simply does not fit the criteria.

The 2011 49ers had one such game, the 48-3 one against the Bucs. We've yet to see that from this one, and until we do, they'll be pretenders to me.

 

[Maulbert]

Proving it is a very real thing. The Texans in the early JJ Watt years were that hot team that was on the rise and should have made noise if Schaub didn't get hurt that 2011 season.

Then they come out on fire the next year and face the Patriots and get massacred. Mind you they had that type of team that would give the Patriots problems those years (great defense, great running game).....but they just couldn't hack it.

So they had the eye test, but couldn't finish.

What the 49ers have is a bit of the eye test. After 3 games we're seeing something that should be getting attention. Not a fluke to be 3-0. Harbaugh couldn't pull that off with a top 3 team....

Now a question to see the team's mettle. We'll know a lot more in coming weeks, but probably not everything.

My eye test is saying the 49ers aren't there yet. The defense is good, but not as dominant as it was in 2011 per the eye test. Not to mention, unlike in 2011, there are two really good teams in division they have to play twice each. The offense is better than 2011, at least in terms of yards. but it is less reliable, turning the ball over too much.

But it's not the 49ers alone that make me unwilling to jump on the "great team" bandwagon, it's the other teams (which I already alluded to). You know who else passes the "eye test?" The Seahawks. And yeah, the Rams got blasted by Tampa Bay, but their defensive line, when it's on, is still horrifying, and yeah, Goff has problems, but when he gets some time those WRs can and will get open down the field.

So, until the 49ers play an actual dominant game (to be defined shortly), I'm not sold . The Bengals game was a blowout, but it was not a "dominant" game in the sense that I mean. For an example of dominance, look at the 1995 49ers from the Dallas game and the Dolphins. First of all, in those two games (against two playoff teams, by the way), it wasn't just the final score that was lopsided. It was immediate domination on both sides of the ball from the first series. There was no question who was winning those games after only a few plays in.

For the Dallas game, it was the 49ers scoring a long touchdown with Rice on the second play from scrimmage, followed by a fumble return touchdown by Mertin Hanks on the Cowboys very second play. You would think it was a fluke, but the very next Cowboys possession had a 2 yard Emmitt Smith run, a 5 yard pass to Jay Novecek, followed by Aikman being pressured into an interception to Ricky Jackson, which resulted in a 17-0 lead before three minutes had passed, and the half finished with the score 31-7. That is dominance.

The following week, against the Dan Marino led Dolphins, the game starts out like this: 49ers kick off; Dan Marino sacked by Bryant Young; Dan Marino sacked by Bryant Young; Dan Marino sacked by Rickey Jackson. Four scrimmage plays later and the 49ers score a touchdown. That one was "only" 24-7 at half time, and they cruised to win 44-20.

Now, against the Rams the next week they started a little slow, as Steve Young was making his return and he was a bit rusty (also Rice fumbled at the 1 yard line), but that one quickly became a snooze fest, too, as the dominant 49ers defense and the Young to Rice combination led to a 28-7 half time lead and a final score of 41-13.

38-20 against one of the best teams ever assembled, 44-20 against the playoff bound Dan Marino led Dolphins, and 41-13 against a Rams team that started the season 4-0 (lesson!).

That was true dominance, and you could feel it. There was a relentless anger to the defense. It was absolutely swarming and suffocating during that run, no matter who they played, even against one of the best offensive lines of all time.




So, when I compare that true dominance to what I'm seeing from the 49ers now, today's 49ers pale in comparison. What I'm seeing now is a 49ers team hanging on and holding on early when they make the kinds of mistakes losing teams make, and then slightly superior talent and good scheming leading to victories that they really shouldn't have gotten based on how they started (with the exception of the Bengals, who are just bad).

These 49ers will be utter pretenders unless they start playing near perfect games. They have to get their heads out of their butts and play like winners, rather than losers with a lot of scrap and fight in them. What do I mean by that? Simple: winners don't consistently shoot themselves in the foot, every single game. They might have one game once in a while where they lay an egg and have to fight and scrap to come back, but usually they take care of business on just about every snap.

The 49ers are NOT playing winning football right now. They are just playing teams who are playing worse. If they want to make a run, they need to tighten up that ship immediately.

Couple things...

1) If you are gonna use the 2011 team as the defensive blueprint, you are going to be disappointed. A LOT. Niners may NEVER have another front 7 like that. It isn't a requirement.

2) NOBODY is putting them on the "great team" bandwagon. We are looking for "Competent" or "Good team with a shot at the playoffs".


I think the level of domination you are looking for would put them in rarefied air in the NFL and I don't think anyone (or at least not on THIS site) is putting them anywhere near that echelon.

I appreciate 5 Golden Rings' history lesson here, however in the 2019 NFL, you're rarely ever going to get such disciplined play for 60 minutes, let alone from a young up and coming teams.

As I've said many times before on here and on the Zone, you don't know what you have until November/December, and in Shanahan's case he has fielded a superior team each December to the respective September.

The big difference now is he's 3-0, not 0-3, or 1-2. The only reason why Mullens was even a thing is because the November/December Shanahan offense is for real. We've seen it with both Jimmy (oh yes, Jimmy), and Mullens making it happen when all the moving pieces on the field have their act together, which seemingly is tougher for them to do in September. The expectation is that the December offense this year will be better than it was even two years ago when Jimmy first started.

My gut instinct is if the 49ers stay healthy they'll become a force in December. I don't want any outside help, just Staley and Witherspoon back and this team will be ready to battle Seattle, Rams, Cowboys, Eagles, whomever.

I'm looking for ONE game of that kind of dominance. Maybe two, maybe even three. A championship contender will do that at least once per season, usually two or three times. The Bengals game simply does not fit the criteria.

The 2011 49ers had one such game, the 48-3 one against the Bucs. We've yet to see that from this one, and until we do, they'll be pretenders to me.

Just curious... would the Seahawks stretch from week 14-16 of 2012 (Sea over Arz 58-0, Sea over Buf 50-17, Sea over SF 42-13, 150-30 aggregate score) qualify as the kind of greatness you refer to?

 

[5_Golden_Rings]

My eye test is saying the 49ers aren't there yet. The defense is good, but not as dominant as it was in 2011 per the eye test. Not to mention, unlike in 2011, there are two really good teams in division they have to play twice each. The offense is better than 2011, at least in terms of yards. but it is less reliable, turning the ball over too much.

But it's not the 49ers alone that make me unwilling to jump on the "great team" bandwagon, it's the other teams (which I already alluded to). You know who else passes the "eye test?" The Seahawks. And yeah, the Rams got blasted by Tampa Bay, but their defensive line, when it's on, is still horrifying, and yeah, Goff has problems, but when he gets some time those WRs can and will get open down the field.

So, until the 49ers play an actual dominant game (to be defined shortly), I'm not sold . The Bengals game was a blowout, but it was not a "dominant" game in the sense that I mean. For an example of dominance, look at the 1995 49ers from the Dallas game and the Dolphins. First of all, in those two games (against two playoff teams, by the way), it wasn't just the final score that was lopsided. It was immediate domination on both sides of the ball from the first series. There was no question who was winning those games after only a few plays in.

For the Dallas game, it was the 49ers scoring a long touchdown with Rice on the second play from scrimmage, followed by a fumble return touchdown by Mertin Hanks on the Cowboys very second play. You would think it was a fluke, but the very next Cowboys possession had a 2 yard Emmitt Smith run, a 5 yard pass to Jay Novecek, followed by Aikman being pressured into an interception to Ricky Jackson, which resulted in a 17-0 lead before three minutes had passed, and the half finished with the score 31-7. That is dominance.

The following week, against the Dan Marino led Dolphins, the game starts out like this: 49ers kick off; Dan Marino sacked by Bryant Young; Dan Marino sacked by Bryant Young; Dan Marino sacked by Rickey Jackson. Four scrimmage plays later and the 49ers score a touchdown. That one was "only" 24-7 at half time, and they cruised to win 44-20.

Now, against the Rams the next week they started a little slow, as Steve Young was making his return and he was a bit rusty (also Rice fumbled at the 1 yard line), but that one quickly became a snooze fest, too, as the dominant 49ers defense and the Young to Rice combination led to a 28-7 half time lead and a final score of 41-13.

38-20 against one of the best teams ever assembled, 44-20 against the playoff bound Dan Marino led Dolphins, and 41-13 against a Rams team that started the season 4-0 (lesson!).

That was true dominance, and you could feel it. There was a relentless anger to the defense. It was absolutely swarming and suffocating during that run, no matter who they played, even against one of the best offensive lines of all time.




So, when I compare that true dominance to what I'm seeing from the 49ers now, today's 49ers pale in comparison. What I'm seeing now is a 49ers team hanging on and holding on early when they make the kinds of mistakes losing teams make, and then slightly superior talent and good scheming leading to victories that they really shouldn't have gotten based on how they started (with the exception of the Bengals, who are just bad).

These 49ers will be utter pretenders unless they start playing near perfect games. They have to get their heads out of their butts and play like winners, rather than losers with a lot of scrap and fight in them. What do I mean by that? Simple: winners don't consistently shoot themselves in the foot, every single game. They might have one game once in a while where they lay an egg and have to fight and scrap to come back, but usually they take care of business on just about every snap.

The 49ers are NOT playing winning football right now. They are just playing teams who are playing worse. If they want to make a run, they need to tighten up that ship immediately.

Couple things...

1) If you are gonna use the 2011 team as the defensive blueprint, you are going to be disappointed. A LOT. Niners may NEVER have another front 7 like that. It isn't a requirement.

2) NOBODY is putting them on the "great team" bandwagon. We are looking for "Competent" or "Good team with a shot at the playoffs".


I think the level of domination you are looking for would put them in rarefied air in the NFL and I don't think anyone (or at least not on THIS site) is putting them anywhere near that echelon.

I appreciate 5 Golden Rings' history lesson here, however in the 2019 NFL, you're rarely ever going to get such disciplined play for 60 minutes, let alone from a young up and coming teams.

As I've said many times before on here and on the Zone, you don't know what you have until November/December, and in Shanahan's case he has fielded a superior team each December to the respective September.

The big difference now is he's 3-0, not 0-3, or 1-2. The only reason why Mullens was even a thing is because the November/December Shanahan offense is for real. We've seen it with both Jimmy (oh yes, Jimmy), and Mullens making it happen when all the moving pieces on the field have their act together, which seemingly is tougher for them to do in September. The expectation is that the December offense this year will be better than it was even two years ago when Jimmy first started.

My gut instinct is if the 49ers stay healthy they'll become a force in December. I don't want any outside help, just Staley and Witherspoon back and this team will be ready to battle Seattle, Rams, Cowboys, Eagles, whomever.

I'm looking for ONE game of that kind of dominance. Maybe two, maybe even three. A championship contender will do that at least once per season, usually two or three times. The Bengals game simply does not fit the criteria.

The 2011 49ers had one such game, the 48-3 one against the Bucs. We've yet to see that from this one, and until we do, they'll be pretenders to me.

Just curious... would the Seahawks stretch from week 14-16 of 2012 (Sea over Arz 58-0, Sea over Buf 50-17, Sea over SF 42-13, 150-30 aggregate score) qualify as the kind of greatness you refer to?

Quite. Most advanced stats agree. They were one of the top three teams in the league that year, and for that stretch they were the best. It's the look of a legitimate contender. Swarming defense, dominate, multidimensional offense, solid special teams.

 

[NINEster]

Proving it is a very real thing. The Texans in the early JJ Watt years were that hot team that was on the rise and should have made noise if Schaub didn't get hurt that 2011 season.

Then they come out on fire the next year and face the Patriots and get massacred. Mind you they had that type of team that would give the Patriots problems those years (great defense, great running game).....but they just couldn't hack it.

So they had the eye test, but couldn't finish.

What the 49ers have is a bit of the eye test. After 3 games we're seeing something that should be getting attention. Not a fluke to be 3-0. Harbaugh couldn't pull that off with a top 3 team....

Now a question to see the team's mettle. We'll know a lot more in coming weeks, but probably not everything.

My eye test is saying the 49ers aren't there yet. The defense is good, but not as dominant as it was in 2011 per the eye test. Not to mention, unlike in 2011, there are two really good teams in division they have to play twice each. The offense is better than 2011, at least in terms of yards. but it is less reliable, turning the ball over too much.

But it's not the 49ers alone that make me unwilling to jump on the "great team" bandwagon, it's the other teams (which I already alluded to). You know who else passes the "eye test?" The Seahawks. And yeah, the Rams got blasted by Tampa Bay, but their defensive line, when it's on, is still horrifying, and yeah, Goff has problems, but when he gets some time those WRs can and will get open down the field.

So, until the 49ers play an actual dominant game (to be defined shortly), I'm not sold . The Bengals game was a blowout, but it was not a "dominant" game in the sense that I mean. For an example of dominance, look at the 1995 49ers from the Dallas game and the Dolphins. First of all, in those two games (against two playoff teams, by the way), it wasn't just the final score that was lopsided. It was immediate domination on both sides of the ball from the first series. There was no question who was winning those games after only a few plays in.

For the Dallas game, it was the 49ers scoring a long touchdown with Rice on the second play from scrimmage, followed by a fumble return touchdown by Mertin Hanks on the Cowboys very second play. You would think it was a fluke, but the very next Cowboys possession had a 2 yard Emmitt Smith run, a 5 yard pass to Jay Novecek, followed by Aikman being pressured into an interception to Ricky Jackson, which resulted in a 17-0 lead before three minutes had passed, and the half finished with the score 31-7. That is dominance.

The following week, against the Dan Marino led Dolphins, the game starts out like this: 49ers kick off; Dan Marino sacked by Bryant Young; Dan Marino sacked by Bryant Young; Dan Marino sacked by Rickey Jackson. Four scrimmage plays later and the 49ers score a touchdown. That one was "only" 24-7 at half time, and they cruised to win 44-20.

Now, against the Rams the next week they started a little slow, as Steve Young was making his return and he was a bit rusty (also Rice fumbled at the 1 yard line), but that one quickly became a snooze fest, too, as the dominant 49ers defense and the Young to Rice combination led to a 28-7 half time lead and a final score of 41-13.

38-20 against one of the best teams ever assembled, 44-20 against the playoff bound Dan Marino led Dolphins, and 41-13 against a Rams team that started the season 4-0 (lesson!).

That was true dominance, and you could feel it. There was a relentless anger to the defense. It was absolutely swarming and suffocating during that run, no matter who they played, even against one of the best offensive lines of all time.




So, when I compare that true dominance to what I'm seeing from the 49ers now, today's 49ers pale in comparison. What I'm seeing now is a 49ers team hanging on and holding on early when they make the kinds of mistakes losing teams make, and then slightly superior talent and good scheming leading to victories that they really shouldn't have gotten based on how they started (with the exception of the Bengals, who are just bad).

These 49ers will be utter pretenders unless they start playing near perfect games. They have to get their heads out of their butts and play like winners, rather than losers with a lot of scrap and fight in them. What do I mean by that? Simple: winners don't consistently shoot themselves in the foot, every single game. They might have one game once in a while where they lay an egg and have to fight and scrap to come back, but usually they take care of business on just about every snap.

The 49ers are NOT playing winning football right now. They are just playing teams who are playing worse. If they want to make a run, they need to tighten up that ship immediately.

Couple things...

1) If you are gonna use the 2011 team as the defensive blueprint, you are going to be disappointed. A LOT. Niners may NEVER have another front 7 like that. It isn't a requirement.

2) NOBODY is putting them on the "great team" bandwagon. We are looking for "Competent" or "Good team with a shot at the playoffs".


I think the level of domination you are looking for would put them in rarefied air in the NFL and I don't think anyone (or at least not on THIS site) is putting them anywhere near that echelon.

I appreciate 5 Golden Rings' history lesson here, however in the 2019 NFL, you're rarely ever going to get such disciplined play for 60 minutes, let alone from a young up and coming teams.

As I've said many times before on here and on the Zone, you don't know what you have until November/December, and in Shanahan's case he has fielded a superior team each December to the respective September.

The big difference now is he's 3-0, not 0-3, or 1-2. The only reason why Mullens was even a thing is because the November/December Shanahan offense is for real. We've seen it with both Jimmy (oh yes, Jimmy), and Mullens making it happen when all the moving pieces on the field have their act together, which seemingly is tougher for them to do in September. The expectation is that the December offense this year will be better than it was even two years ago when Jimmy first started.

My gut instinct is if the 49ers stay healthy they'll become a force in December. I don't want any outside help, just Staley and Witherspoon back and this team will be ready to battle Seattle, Rams, Cowboys, Eagles, whomever.

I'm looking for ONE game of that kind of dominance. Maybe two, maybe even three. A championship contender will do that at least once per season, usually two or three times. The Bengals game simply does not fit the criteria.

The 2011 49ers had one such game, the 48-3 one against the Bucs. We've yet to see that from this one, and until we do, they'll be pretenders to me.

The word pretender is strong, especially coming from a fan.

I got the 2019 Almanac from Football Outsiders this year.

In there, is a paragraph towards the end discussing what makes a great team.

And in it, basically it's the ability to dominate/control lesser opponents consistently. It didn't say you had to win by 40 points once or twice a season but to show that you were in control in most games, or at least the ones you would expect.

The Harbaugh era 49ers started showing that from the Bucs game onwards more often than not all the way up to the Cowboy season opener in 2014. After that, it was over.

But this is all talk about 12-4+ quality type teams......the 9-7/10-6 threshold doesn't need to be quite as good.

 

[5_Golden_Rings]

My eye test is saying the 49ers aren't there yet. The defense is good, but not as dominant as it was in 2011 per the eye test. Not to mention, unlike in 2011, there are two really good teams in division they have to play twice each. The offense is better than 2011, at least in terms of yards. but it is less reliable, turning the ball over too much.

But it's not the 49ers alone that make me unwilling to jump on the "great team" bandwagon, it's the other teams (which I already alluded to). You know who else passes the "eye test?" The Seahawks. And yeah, the Rams got blasted by Tampa Bay, but their defensive line, when it's on, is still horrifying, and yeah, Goff has problems, but when he gets some time those WRs can and will get open down the field.

So, until the 49ers play an actual dominant game (to be defined shortly), I'm not sold . The Bengals game was a blowout, but it was not a "dominant" game in the sense that I mean. For an example of dominance, look at the 1995 49ers from the Dallas game and the Dolphins. First of all, in those two games (against two playoff teams, by the way), it wasn't just the final score that was lopsided. It was immediate domination on both sides of the ball from the first series. There was no question who was winning those games after only a few plays in.

For the Dallas game, it was the 49ers scoring a long touchdown with Rice on the second play from scrimmage, followed by a fumble return touchdown by Mertin Hanks on the Cowboys very second play. You would think it was a fluke, but the very next Cowboys possession had a 2 yard Emmitt Smith run, a 5 yard pass to Jay Novecek, followed by Aikman being pressured into an interception to Ricky Jackson, which resulted in a 17-0 lead before three minutes had passed, and the half finished with the score 31-7. That is dominance.

The following week, against the Dan Marino led Dolphins, the game starts out like this: 49ers kick off; Dan Marino sacked by Bryant Young; Dan Marino sacked by Bryant Young; Dan Marino sacked by Rickey Jackson. Four scrimmage plays later and the 49ers score a touchdown. That one was "only" 24-7 at half time, and they cruised to win 44-20.

Now, against the Rams the next week they started a little slow, as Steve Young was making his return and he was a bit rusty (also Rice fumbled at the 1 yard line), but that one quickly became a snooze fest, too, as the dominant 49ers defense and the Young to Rice combination led to a 28-7 half time lead and a final score of 41-13.

38-20 against one of the best teams ever assembled, 44-20 against the playoff bound Dan Marino led Dolphins, and 41-13 against a Rams team that started the season 4-0 (lesson!).

That was true dominance, and you could feel it. There was a relentless anger to the defense. It was absolutely swarming and suffocating during that run, no matter who they played, even against one of the best offensive lines of all time.




So, when I compare that true dominance to what I'm seeing from the 49ers now, today's 49ers pale in comparison. What I'm seeing now is a 49ers team hanging on and holding on early when they make the kinds of mistakes losing teams make, and then slightly superior talent and good scheming leading to victories that they really shouldn't have gotten based on how they started (with the exception of the Bengals, who are just bad).

These 49ers will be utter pretenders unless they start playing near perfect games. They have to get their heads out of their butts and play like winners, rather than losers with a lot of scrap and fight in them. What do I mean by that? Simple: winners don't consistently shoot themselves in the foot, every single game. They might have one game once in a while where they lay an egg and have to fight and scrap to come back, but usually they take care of business on just about every snap.

The 49ers are NOT playing winning football right now. They are just playing teams who are playing worse. If they want to make a run, they need to tighten up that ship immediately.

Couple things...

1) If you are gonna use the 2011 team as the defensive blueprint, you are going to be disappointed. A LOT. Niners may NEVER have another front 7 like that. It isn't a requirement.

2) NOBODY is putting them on the "great team" bandwagon. We are looking for "Competent" or "Good team with a shot at the playoffs".


I think the level of domination you are looking for would put them in rarefied air in the NFL and I don't think anyone (or at least not on THIS site) is putting them anywhere near that echelon.

I appreciate 5 Golden Rings' history lesson here, however in the 2019 NFL, you're rarely ever going to get such disciplined play for 60 minutes, let alone from a young up and coming teams.

As I've said many times before on here and on the Zone, you don't know what you have until November/December, and in Shanahan's case he has fielded a superior team each December to the respective September.

The big difference now is he's 3-0, not 0-3, or 1-2. The only reason why Mullens was even a thing is because the November/December Shanahan offense is for real. We've seen it with both Jimmy (oh yes, Jimmy), and Mullens making it happen when all the moving pieces on the field have their act together, which seemingly is tougher for them to do in September. The expectation is that the December offense this year will be better than it was even two years ago when Jimmy first started.

My gut instinct is if the 49ers stay healthy they'll become a force in December. I don't want any outside help, just Staley and Witherspoon back and this team will be ready to battle Seattle, Rams, Cowboys, Eagles, whomever.

I'm looking for ONE game of that kind of dominance. Maybe two, maybe even three. A championship contender will do that at least once per season, usually two or three times. The Bengals game simply does not fit the criteria.

The 2011 49ers had one such game, the 48-3 one against the Bucs. We've yet to see that from this one, and until we do, they'll be pretenders to me.

The word pretender is strong, especially coming from a fan.

I got the 2019 Almanac from Football Outsiders this year.

In there, is a paragraph towards the end discussing what makes a great team.

And in it, basically it's the ability to dominate/control lesser opponents consistently. It didn't say you had to win by 40 points once or twice a season but to show that you were in control in most games, or at least the ones you would expect.

The Harbaugh era 49ers started showing that from the Bucs game onwards more often than not all the way up to the Cowboy season opener in 2014. After that, it was over.

But this is all talk about 12-4+ quality type teams......the 9-7/10-6 threshold doesn't need to be quite as good.

I'm a fan. I'm not delusional. I'm more George Seifert than Mooch.

But goodness, this team is shaky right now. They cannot win consistently the way they are playing on offense. You can put all the yards up you want, but this many mistakes is losing football. The only reason we aren't 0-3 or 1-2 is because the defense started getting turnovers and sacks.

9-7? That would be a fairly disappointing finish (6-7 down the stretch) based on a 3-0 start, unless you understand the context of that start.