Make No Mistake The 49ers are the Real Threat NOT the Rams

[NINEster]

Some general thoughts on this thread:

-- McVay's offense feels like another WCO version of trendy high powered offenses that aren't built for January. Shanahan runs a "January" offense year round. If nothing's changed from last season, no reason to expect anything different this year when the going gets tough.

-- Shanahan not a leader of men?? I think the truly galvanizing personalities as HCs are pretty rare, and I wouldn't categorize him as such. However, you can lead by demonstrating very high levels of competence, which he clearly has. Shanahan is a leader of men when everyone is wide open every play. Now as far as connecting on the other side of the ball, that's a bit different.

What I find interesting is how McVay is seen as a leader of men. Why? Because his team has won games? Been to a SB? He's a kid, literally......and at best from what I can see is he's 80% of Shanahan's ability with 50% more Entourage BROness. I guess that counts as leadership these days.

If there's any coaching advantage McVay has over Shanahan, is that he's got a top 3 DC running his entire defense while Shanahan has to play a role in his own team's defense using a brand new to DCing coordinator. The 49ers defense is going to need more big names to produce results than it would have needed to under say, Fangio.

Anyway, my Skins' friend sees both Shanahan and McVay as elite coaches that would never have thrived in DC because of their owner.

-- Using records of teams beaten is useless this early in the season. Maybe in another 4 weeks you could start using it, but for now you have to go by gut feel on many teams.

-- Only the Patriots have won a SB the following season after a SB loss dating back to around 1973. So based on that, the Rams aren't going to win a SB this season. The dynasty 49ers and Steelers teams never lost SBs back in the day, and the Cowboys didn't count as a dynasty team until the 90s. It's really damn hard to do, so I wouldn't take it as a slight that only a generational dynasty has been able to do it in the last 45 years of the 53 year SB era.

-- The 49ers success IMO will come down to two things this year: how well they can protect Jimmy G and operate the offense without Staley, and building that winning confidence.

It's become apparent that they are headed in the right direction for the latter based on these last two weeks. Usually there's about a season between being a bad/really good team and vice versa. The 2014 49ers playing that season with a lot of injured guys still had the punch you in the mouth feel of the earlier Harbaugh teams, up until the point where the weakened roster started to lose games and by year's end was far different from the team that embarrassed the Cowboys in the opener. The 2015 49ers under Tomsula probably still won some games based on remnants of the older Harbaugh squads, and by 2016 that was all gone.

The 49ers going forward are now building strictly off the Shanahan squad, and having tasted 8 wins with Garappolo in nearly 2 full years, they're not quite starting from scratch. If the 49ers win 9-11 games this year, rest assured they will have become another team that can win games and escape with wins based on the aura.

-- Seahawks are a squad that has carried the winning aura for such a long time now, that I feel that has propelled them to more wins each season than their roster should deliver them or underwhelming play should give them. Wilson's a part of that for sure, as is Carroll. Wagner could be added to that list now. Those 3 keep the floor high in Seattle even if they go through rough patches. It will be up to the other parts of the roster to make the team go farther than they have the last few years.

-- With the Saints possibly taking a step back this year, it appears there's going to be another team to replace them. Not sure if the Falcons have it in them to win the division, but it seems the AFC South is wide open right now with the Saints seemingly down, the Panthers being in a funk, and the Bucs weren't not sure yet what they have.

-- Will the NFC West send all the wildcards in the NFC this year or just one? That's what remains to be seen.

I think Shannahan is a good coach, and wasn't the one that talked down his leadership.

Having said that, you are WAAAAAAAY off base on McVay. If you watch and pay attention, he really hasn't been figured out. Goff was. In the Super Bowl the Rams had open WRs time and time again. Cooks was literally streaking down the field WIDE OPEN and Goff threw the ball too late.

It's difficult to compare because McVay has had better talent to work with, but even still the only conclusion you can really draw is that right now McVay is the superior offensive mind.

And as for the DC - I mean - who hired him? It was McVay. So from that perspective, he does get credit for that - especially as a leader.

His offense not being built for January....makes no sense. The Rams just won two playoff games, and whatever happened regarding the no call, the Rams offense still outplayed the Saints offense in that game. The Rams ran roughshod over a supposedly elite Cowboys defense too.

A few things you're missing here:

a) Better offensive talent, yet we can definitively say McVay is the better offensive mind?? Oh really. So the student is better than the teacher? You're so sure about that.

I'm not seeing it. I still hold that McVay built a more explosive offense based on the talent he has but didn't build a January offense because he has no fullback.

Two teams use FBs and 21 personnel a ton......49ers and Patriots. Maybe when McVay gets with the program, he too can have a February offense....sorry got the month wrong. Shanahan's February offense so far is 28 points against Belichick, not 3 points...

And now Goff got figured out? You're throwing your QB out like that so quickly, haha....

b) McVay got Phillips because he had a 2-3 week head start on being able to being hired. I love how this is a novel concept here, like Shanahan had no idea who the elite DCs in the league were but McVay did.

I can tolerate homer stuff to an extent but this is amusing.

Look your boy is good, but he's not better. Even he has more respect for Shanahan than you do ("I'm not happy that Kyle Shanahan is in the NFC West")….

 

[Ramfan128]

Some general thoughts on this thread:

-- McVay's offense feels like another WCO version of trendy high powered offenses that aren't built for January. Shanahan runs a "January" offense year round. If nothing's changed from last season, no reason to expect anything different this year when the going gets tough.

-- Shanahan not a leader of men?? I think the truly galvanizing personalities as HCs are pretty rare, and I wouldn't categorize him as such. However, you can lead by demonstrating very high levels of competence, which he clearly has. Shanahan is a leader of men when everyone is wide open every play. Now as far as connecting on the other side of the ball, that's a bit different.

What I find interesting is how McVay is seen as a leader of men. Why? Because his team has won games? Been to a SB? He's a kid, literally......and at best from what I can see is he's 80% of Shanahan's ability with 50% more Entourage BROness. I guess that counts as leadership these days.

If there's any coaching advantage McVay has over Shanahan, is that he's got a top 3 DC running his entire defense while Shanahan has to play a role in his own team's defense using a brand new to DCing coordinator. The 49ers defense is going to need more big names to produce results than it would have needed to under say, Fangio.

Anyway, my Skins' friend sees both Shanahan and McVay as elite coaches that would never have thrived in DC because of their owner.

-- Using records of teams beaten is useless this early in the season. Maybe in another 4 weeks you could start using it, but for now you have to go by gut feel on many teams.

-- Only the Patriots have won a SB the following season after a SB loss dating back to around 1973. So based on that, the Rams aren't going to win a SB this season. The dynasty 49ers and Steelers teams never lost SBs back in the day, and the Cowboys didn't count as a dynasty team until the 90s. It's really damn hard to do, so I wouldn't take it as a slight that only a generational dynasty has been able to do it in the last 45 years of the 53 year SB era.

-- The 49ers success IMO will come down to two things this year: how well they can protect Jimmy G and operate the offense without Staley, and building that winning confidence.

It's become apparent that they are headed in the right direction for the latter based on these last two weeks. Usually there's about a season between being a bad/really good team and vice versa. The 2014 49ers playing that season with a lot of injured guys still had the punch you in the mouth feel of the earlier Harbaugh teams, up until the point where the weakened roster started to lose games and by year's end was far different from the team that embarrassed the Cowboys in the opener. The 2015 49ers under Tomsula probably still won some games based on remnants of the older Harbaugh squads, and by 2016 that was all gone.

The 49ers going forward are now building strictly off the Shanahan squad, and having tasted 8 wins with Garappolo in nearly 2 full years, they're not quite starting from scratch. If the 49ers win 9-11 games this year, rest assured they will have become another team that can win games and escape with wins based on the aura.

-- Seahawks are a squad that has carried the winning aura for such a long time now, that I feel that has propelled them to more wins each season than their roster should deliver them or underwhelming play should give them. Wilson's a part of that for sure, as is Carroll. Wagner could be added to that list now. Those 3 keep the floor high in Seattle even if they go through rough patches. It will be up to the other parts of the roster to make the team go farther than they have the last few years.

-- With the Saints possibly taking a step back this year, it appears there's going to be another team to replace them. Not sure if the Falcons have it in them to win the division, but it seems the AFC South is wide open right now with the Saints seemingly down, the Panthers being in a funk, and the Bucs weren't not sure yet what they have.

-- Will the NFC West send all the wildcards in the NFC this year or just one? That's what remains to be seen.

I think Shannahan is a good coach, and wasn't the one that talked down his leadership.

Having said that, you are WAAAAAAAY off base on McVay. If you watch and pay attention, he really hasn't been figured out. Goff was. In the Super Bowl the Rams had open WRs time and time again. Cooks was literally streaking down the field WIDE OPEN and Goff threw the ball too late.

It's difficult to compare because McVay has had better talent to work with, but even still the only conclusion you can really draw is that right now McVay is the superior offensive mind.

And as for the DC - I mean - who hired him? It was McVay. So from that perspective, he does get credit for that - especially as a leader.

His offense not being built for January....makes no sense. The Rams just won two playoff games, and whatever happened regarding the no call, the Rams offense still outplayed the Saints offense in that game. The Rams ran roughshod over a supposedly elite Cowboys defense too.

A few things you're missing here:

a) Better offensive talent, yet we can definitively say McVay is the better offensive mind?? Oh really. So the student is better than the teacher? You're so sure about that.

I'm not seeing it. I still hold that McVay built a more explosive offense based on the talent he has but didn't build a January offense because he has no fullback.

Two teams use FBs and 21 personnel a ton......49ers and Patriots. Maybe when McVay gets with the program, he too can have a February offense....sorry got the month wrong. Shanahan's February offense so far is 28 points against Belichick, not 3 points...

And now Goff got figured out? You're throwing your QB out like that so quickly, haha....

b) McVay got Phillips because he had a 2-3 week head start on being able to being hired. I love how this is a novel concept here, like Shanahan had no idea who the elite DCs in the league were but McVay did.

I can tolerate homer stuff to an extent but this is amusing.

Look your boy is good, but he's not better. Even he has more respect for Shanahan than you do ("I'm not happy that Kyle Shanahan is in the NFC West")….

Lol yikes.

First of all, I do have respect for Shannahan - but if there's any homer stuff going on, it's from the person stating an offensive minded HC who hasn't even had a winning record is better than an offensive minded HC that has been to the playoffs every year. While McVay has more talent for sure, the Rams and Niners were both horrible teams when these guys got hired.

Shannahan could be a better offensive mind, but we haven't seen enough of that yet. Talk of this February offense is odd, don't even know how to respond to that other than to say the Rams ran the ball all over the Cowboys and then passed the ball on the Saints - he's done it both ways in the playoffs. But keep in mind - I'm not downing Shannahan at all - I was impressed by what he did last year - I just haven't seen enough from him to even put him on the same level as McVay.

As for me saying Goff got figured out - check my post history, I've been consistent with that take. Most Rams fans blame McVay because he takes the blame and they're overprotective of Goff, but the reality is that Goff is what holds this offense back. It was clear in the Super Bowl if you rewatch it and focus on the WRs, and it was pretty clear last night too. I'm not throwing him out though - he's still young and has time to improve.

 

[Marvin49]

Some general thoughts on this thread:

-- McVay's offense feels like another WCO version of trendy high powered offenses that aren't built for January. Shanahan runs a "January" offense year round. If nothing's changed from last season, no reason to expect anything different this year when the going gets tough.

-- Shanahan not a leader of men?? I think the truly galvanizing personalities as HCs are pretty rare, and I wouldn't categorize him as such. However, you can lead by demonstrating very high levels of competence, which he clearly has. Shanahan is a leader of men when everyone is wide open every play. Now as far as connecting on the other side of the ball, that's a bit different.

What I find interesting is how McVay is seen as a leader of men. Why? Because his team has won games? Been to a SB? He's a kid, literally......and at best from what I can see is he's 80% of Shanahan's ability with 50% more Entourage BROness. I guess that counts as leadership these days.

If there's any coaching advantage McVay has over Shanahan, is that he's got a top 3 DC running his entire defense while Shanahan has to play a role in his own team's defense using a brand new to DCing coordinator. The 49ers defense is going to need more big names to produce results than it would have needed to under say, Fangio.

Anyway, my Skins' friend sees both Shanahan and McVay as elite coaches that would never have thrived in DC because of their owner.

-- Using records of teams beaten is useless this early in the season. Maybe in another 4 weeks you could start using it, but for now you have to go by gut feel on many teams.

-- Only the Patriots have won a SB the following season after a SB loss dating back to around 1973. So based on that, the Rams aren't going to win a SB this season. The dynasty 49ers and Steelers teams never lost SBs back in the day, and the Cowboys didn't count as a dynasty team until the 90s. It's really damn hard to do, so I wouldn't take it as a slight that only a generational dynasty has been able to do it in the last 45 years of the 53 year SB era.

-- The 49ers success IMO will come down to two things this year: how well they can protect Jimmy G and operate the offense without Staley, and building that winning confidence.

It's become apparent that they are headed in the right direction for the latter based on these last two weeks. Usually there's about a season between being a bad/really good team and vice versa. The 2014 49ers playing that season with a lot of injured guys still had the punch you in the mouth feel of the earlier Harbaugh teams, up until the point where the weakened roster started to lose games and by year's end was far different from the team that embarrassed the Cowboys in the opener. The 2015 49ers under Tomsula probably still won some games based on remnants of the older Harbaugh squads, and by 2016 that was all gone.

The 49ers going forward are now building strictly off the Shanahan squad, and having tasted 8 wins with Garappolo in nearly 2 full years, they're not quite starting from scratch. If the 49ers win 9-11 games this year, rest assured they will have become another team that can win games and escape with wins based on the aura.

-- Seahawks are a squad that has carried the winning aura for such a long time now, that I feel that has propelled them to more wins each season than their roster should deliver them or underwhelming play should give them. Wilson's a part of that for sure, as is Carroll. Wagner could be added to that list now. Those 3 keep the floor high in Seattle even if they go through rough patches. It will be up to the other parts of the roster to make the team go farther than they have the last few years.

-- With the Saints possibly taking a step back this year, it appears there's going to be another team to replace them. Not sure if the Falcons have it in them to win the division, but it seems the AFC South is wide open right now with the Saints seemingly down, the Panthers being in a funk, and the Bucs weren't not sure yet what they have.

-- Will the NFC West send all the wildcards in the NFC this year or just one? That's what remains to be seen.

I think Shannahan is a good coach, and wasn't the one that talked down his leadership.

Having said that, you are WAAAAAAAY off base on McVay. If you watch and pay attention, he really hasn't been figured out. Goff was. In the Super Bowl the Rams had open WRs time and time again. Cooks was literally streaking down the field WIDE OPEN and Goff threw the ball too late.

It's difficult to compare because McVay has had better talent to work with, but even still the only conclusion you can really draw is that right now McVay is the superior offensive mind.

And as for the DC - I mean - who hired him? It was McVay. So from that perspective, he does get credit for that - especially as a leader.

His offense not being built for January....makes no sense. The Rams just won two playoff games, and whatever happened regarding the no call, the Rams offense still outplayed the Saints offense in that game. The Rams ran roughshod over a supposedly elite Cowboys defense too.

A few things you're missing here:

a) Better offensive talent, yet we can definitively say McVay is the better offensive mind?? Oh really. So the student is better than the teacher? You're so sure about that.

I'm not seeing it. I still hold that McVay built a more explosive offense based on the talent he has but didn't build a January offense because he has no fullback.

Two teams use FBs and 21 personnel a ton......49ers and Patriots. Maybe when McVay gets with the program, he too can have a February offense....sorry got the month wrong. Shanahan's February offense so far is 28 points against Belichick, not 3 points...

And now Goff got figured out? You're throwing your QB out like that so quickly, haha....

b) McVay got Phillips because he had a 2-3 week head start on being able to being hired. I love how this is a novel concept here, like Shanahan had no idea who the elite DCs in the league were but McVay did.

I can tolerate homer stuff to an extent but this is amusing.

Look your boy is good, but he's not better. Even he has more respect for Shanahan than you do ("I'm not happy that Kyle Shanahan is in the NFC West")….

Lol yikes.

First of all, I do have respect for Shannahan - but if there's any homer stuff going on, it's from the person stating an offensive minded HC who hasn't even had a winning record is better than an offensive minded HC that has been to the playoffs every year. While McVay has more talent for sure, the Rams and Niners were both horrible teams when these guys got hired.

Shannahan could be a better offensive mind, but we haven't seen enough of that yet. Talk of this February offense is odd, don't even know how to respond to that other than to say the Rams ran the ball all over the Cowboys and then passed the ball on the Saints - he's done it both ways in the playoffs. But keep in mind - I'm not downing Shannahan at all - I was impressed by what he did last year - I just haven't seen enough from him to even put him on the same level as McVay.

As for me saying Goff got figured out - check my post history, I've been consistent with that take. Most Rams fans blame McVay because he takes the blame and they're overprotective of Goff, but the reality is that Goff is what holds this offense back. It was clear in the Super Bowl if you rewatch it and focus on the WRs, and it was pretty clear last night too. I'm not throwing him out though - he's still young and has time to improve.

OK....first off its Shanahan.

Second, and I don't want to wade too deeply into this, but if your suggestion is that the talent level was equal between these teams and Shanahan and McVay have had roughly the same talent level, thats just nuts. McVay inherited a QB, RB and WRs. He inherited the best DT in the game.

Shanahan inherited Buckner, but outside of Joe Staley, they revamped EVERY SINGLE OTHER POSITION on offense. Every one.

Second, The 49ers have had their QB for a grand total of 11 games in 3 seasons....and are 9-2 in those games.

 

[Ramfan128]

I think Shannahan is a good coach, and wasn't the one that talked down his leadership.

Having said that, you are WAAAAAAAY off base on McVay. If you watch and pay attention, he really hasn't been figured out. Goff was. In the Super Bowl the Rams had open WRs time and time again. Cooks was literally streaking down the field WIDE OPEN and Goff threw the ball too late.

It's difficult to compare because McVay has had better talent to work with, but even still the only conclusion you can really draw is that right now McVay is the superior offensive mind.

And as for the DC - I mean - who hired him? It was McVay. So from that perspective, he does get credit for that - especially as a leader.

His offense not being built for January....makes no sense. The Rams just won two playoff games, and whatever happened regarding the no call, the Rams offense still outplayed the Saints offense in that game. The Rams ran roughshod over a supposedly elite Cowboys defense too.

A few things you're missing here:

a) Better offensive talent, yet we can definitively say McVay is the better offensive mind?? Oh really. So the student is better than the teacher? You're so sure about that.

I'm not seeing it. I still hold that McVay built a more explosive offense based on the talent he has but didn't build a January offense because he has no fullback.

Two teams use FBs and 21 personnel a ton......49ers and Patriots. Maybe when McVay gets with the program, he too can have a February offense....sorry got the month wrong. Shanahan's February offense so far is 28 points against Belichick, not 3 points...

And now Goff got figured out? You're throwing your QB out like that so quickly, haha....

b) McVay got Phillips because he had a 2-3 week head start on being able to being hired. I love how this is a novel concept here, like Shanahan had no idea who the elite DCs in the league were but McVay did.

I can tolerate homer stuff to an extent but this is amusing.

Look your boy is good, but he's not better. Even he has more respect for Shanahan than you do ("I'm not happy that Kyle Shanahan is in the NFC West")….

Lol yikes.

First of all, I do have respect for Shannahan - but if there's any homer stuff going on, it's from the person stating an offensive minded HC who hasn't even had a winning record is better than an offensive minded HC that has been to the playoffs every year. While McVay has more talent for sure, the Rams and Niners were both horrible teams when these guys got hired.

Shannahan could be a better offensive mind, but we haven't seen enough of that yet. Talk of this February offense is odd, don't even know how to respond to that other than to say the Rams ran the ball all over the Cowboys and then passed the ball on the Saints - he's done it both ways in the playoffs. But keep in mind - I'm not downing Shannahan at all - I was impressed by what he did last year - I just haven't seen enough from him to even put him on the same level as McVay.

As for me saying Goff got figured out - check my post history, I've been consistent with that take. Most Rams fans blame McVay because he takes the blame and they're overprotective of Goff, but the reality is that Goff is what holds this offense back. It was clear in the Super Bowl if you rewatch it and focus on the WRs, and it was pretty clear last night too. I'm not throwing him out though - he's still young and has time to improve.

OK....first off its Shanahan.

Second, and I don't want to wade too deeply into this, but if your suggestion is that the talent level was equal between these teams and Shanahan and McVay have had roughly the same talent level, thats just nuts. McVay inherited a QB, RB and WRs. He inherited the best DT in the game.

Shanahan inherited Buckner, but outside of Joe Staley, they revamped EVERY SINGLE OTHER POSITION on offense. Every one.

Second, The 49ers have had their QB for a grand total of 11 games in 3 seasons....and are 9-2 in those games.

My bad on the spelling.

McVay inherited WRs? That's news to me. The Rams trio of Woods, Watkins and Kupp were all acquired after McVay was hired.

Let's not forget that Goff was a sure fire bust before McVay. Also don't forget that Gurley was atrocious the year before McVay got there, and even his rookie year was nothing compared to what he did once McVay arrived.

Starters McVay inherited that are still on the team:

Jared Goff - bust before McVay
Todd Gurley - lowest YPC in the league before McVay
Tyler Higbee - most outside of Rams fans probably don't know who he is
Rob Havenstein - average player before McVay arrived, slightly above average now

You can add Rodger Saffold for McVay's first two years - so that's 6/11 he turned over immediately and 7/11 to date - with the caveat that nobody thought Goff was going turn into a decent QB.

How about the defense?

Brockers
Donald

These are the only starters left from the Fisher days (and Brockers has been underwhelming for the past few years). There were a few more last year and obviously more the year before, but only two remain now.

The year before these two got hired, the Rams went 4-12 and the Niners 2-14 - but both wins were against the Rams. Both teams had almost the exact same point differential (-170 and -171).

We're also ignoring that, while the Rams did have Goff, the Niners had the #2 overall pick while the Rams did not have a first rounder, which would have been 5th overall.

And again - I'm not trashing Shanahan by any means - it just doesn't make sense to put him in the same category as McVay when their results have been so drastically different thus far. I'm not even saying McVay is definitively better - more that the analysis on Shanahan is an "incomplete" right now.

 

[Washington49er]

A few things you're missing here:

a) Better offensive talent, yet we can definitively say McVay is the better offensive mind?? Oh really. So the student is better than the teacher? You're so sure about that.

I'm not seeing it. I still hold that McVay built a more explosive offense based on the talent he has but didn't build a January offense because he has no fullback.

Two teams use FBs and 21 personnel a ton......49ers and Patriots. Maybe when McVay gets with the program, he too can have a February offense....sorry got the month wrong. Shanahan's February offense so far is 28 points against Belichick, not 3 points...

And now Goff got figured out? You're throwing your QB out like that so quickly, haha....

b) McVay got Phillips because he had a 2-3 week head start on being able to being hired. I love how this is a novel concept here, like Shanahan had no idea who the elite DCs in the league were but McVay did.

I can tolerate homer stuff to an extent but this is amusing.

Look your boy is good, but he's not better. Even he has more respect for Shanahan than you do ("I'm not happy that Kyle Shanahan is in the NFC West")….

Lol yikes.

First of all, I do have respect for Shannahan - but if there's any homer stuff going on, it's from the person stating an offensive minded HC who hasn't even had a winning record is better than an offensive minded HC that has been to the playoffs every year. While McVay has more talent for sure, the Rams and Niners were both horrible teams when these guys got hired.

Shannahan could be a better offensive mind, but we haven't seen enough of that yet. Talk of this February offense is odd, don't even know how to respond to that other than to say the Rams ran the ball all over the Cowboys and then passed the ball on the Saints - he's done it both ways in the playoffs. But keep in mind - I'm not downing Shannahan at all - I was impressed by what he did last year - I just haven't seen enough from him to even put him on the same level as McVay.

As for me saying Goff got figured out - check my post history, I've been consistent with that take. Most Rams fans blame McVay because he takes the blame and they're overprotective of Goff, but the reality is that Goff is what holds this offense back. It was clear in the Super Bowl if you rewatch it and focus on the WRs, and it was pretty clear last night too. I'm not throwing him out though - he's still young and has time to improve.

OK....first off its Shanahan.

Second, and I don't want to wade too deeply into this, but if your suggestion is that the talent level was equal between these teams and Shanahan and McVay have had roughly the same talent level, thats just nuts. McVay inherited a QB, RB and WRs. He inherited the best DT in the game.

Shanahan inherited Buckner, but outside of Joe Staley, they revamped EVERY SINGLE OTHER POSITION on offense. Every one.

Second, The 49ers have had their QB for a grand total of 11 games in 3 seasons....and are 9-2 in those games.

My bad on the spelling.

McVay inherited WRs? That's news to me. The Rams trio of Woods, Watkins and Kupp were all acquired after McVay was hired.

Let's not forget that Goff was a sure fire bust before McVay. Also don't forget that Gurley was atrocious the year before McVay got there, and even his rookie year was nothing compared to what he did once McVay arrived.

Starters McVay inherited that are still on the team:

Jared Goff - bust before McVay
Todd Gurley - lowest YPC in the league before McVay
Tyler Higbee - most outside of Rams fans probably don't know who he is
Rob Havenstein - average player before McVay arrived, slightly above average now

You can add Rodger Saffold for McVay's first two years - so that's 6/11 he turned over immediately and 7/11 to date - with the caveat that nobody thought Goff was going turn into a decent QB.

How about the defense?

Brockers
Donald

These are the only starters left from the Fisher days (and Brockers has been underwhelming for the past few years). There were a few more last year and obviously more the year before, but only two remain now.

The year before these two got hired, the Rams went 4-12 and the Niners 2-14 - but both wins were against the Rams. Both teams had almost the exact same point differential (-170 and -171).

We're also ignoring that, while the Rams did have Goff, the Niners had the #2 overall pick while the Rams did not have a first rounder, which would have been 5th overall.

And again - I'm not trashing Shanahan by any means - it just doesn't make sense to put him in the same category as McVay when their results have been so drastically different thus far. I'm not even saying McVay is definitively better - more that the analysis on Shanahan is an "incomplete" right now.

I guess we'll see what's up in 3 weeks

 

[Marvin49]

A few things you're missing here:

a) Better offensive talent, yet we can definitively say McVay is the better offensive mind?? Oh really. So the student is better than the teacher? You're so sure about that.

I'm not seeing it. I still hold that McVay built a more explosive offense based on the talent he has but didn't build a January offense because he has no fullback.

Two teams use FBs and 21 personnel a ton......49ers and Patriots. Maybe when McVay gets with the program, he too can have a February offense....sorry got the month wrong. Shanahan's February offense so far is 28 points against Belichick, not 3 points...

And now Goff got figured out? You're throwing your QB out like that so quickly, haha....

b) McVay got Phillips because he had a 2-3 week head start on being able to being hired. I love how this is a novel concept here, like Shanahan had no idea who the elite DCs in the league were but McVay did.

I can tolerate homer stuff to an extent but this is amusing.

Look your boy is good, but he's not better. Even he has more respect for Shanahan than you do ("I'm not happy that Kyle Shanahan is in the NFC West")….

Lol yikes.

First of all, I do have respect for Shannahan - but if there's any homer stuff going on, it's from the person stating an offensive minded HC who hasn't even had a winning record is better than an offensive minded HC that has been to the playoffs every year. While McVay has more talent for sure, the Rams and Niners were both horrible teams when these guys got hired.

Shannahan could be a better offensive mind, but we haven't seen enough of that yet. Talk of this February offense is odd, don't even know how to respond to that other than to say the Rams ran the ball all over the Cowboys and then passed the ball on the Saints - he's done it both ways in the playoffs. But keep in mind - I'm not downing Shannahan at all - I was impressed by what he did last year - I just haven't seen enough from him to even put him on the same level as McVay.

As for me saying Goff got figured out - check my post history, I've been consistent with that take. Most Rams fans blame McVay because he takes the blame and they're overprotective of Goff, but the reality is that Goff is what holds this offense back. It was clear in the Super Bowl if you rewatch it and focus on the WRs, and it was pretty clear last night too. I'm not throwing him out though - he's still young and has time to improve.

OK....first off its Shanahan.

Second, and I don't want to wade too deeply into this, but if your suggestion is that the talent level was equal between these teams and Shanahan and McVay have had roughly the same talent level, thats just nuts. McVay inherited a QB, RB and WRs. He inherited the best DT in the game.

Shanahan inherited Buckner, but outside of Joe Staley, they revamped EVERY SINGLE OTHER POSITION on offense. Every one.

Second, The 49ers have had their QB for a grand total of 11 games in 3 seasons....and are 9-2 in those games.

My bad on the spelling.

McVay inherited WRs? That's news to me. The Rams trio of Woods, Watkins and Kupp were all acquired after McVay was hired.

Let's not forget that Goff was a sure fire bust before McVay. Also don't forget that Gurley was atrocious the year before McVay got there, and even his rookie year was nothing compared to what he did once McVay arrived.

Starters McVay inherited that are still on the team:

Jared Goff - bust before McVay
Todd Gurley - lowest YPC in the league before McVay
Tyler Higbee - most outside of Rams fans probably don't know who he is
Rob Havenstein - average player before McVay arrived, slightly above average now

You can add Rodger Saffold for McVay's first two years - so that's 6/11 he turned over immediately and 7/11 to date - with the caveat that nobody thought Goff was going turn into a decent QB.

How about the defense?

Brockers
Donald

These are the only starters left from the Fisher days (and Brockers has been underwhelming for the past few years). There were a few more last year and obviously more the year before, but only two remain now.

The year before these two got hired, the Rams went 4-12 and the Niners 2-14 - but both wins were against the Rams. Both teams had almost the exact same point differential (-170 and -171).

We're also ignoring that, while the Rams did have Goff, the Niners had the #2 overall pick while the Rams did not have a first rounder, which would have been 5th overall.

And again - I'm not trashing Shanahan by any means - it just doesn't make sense to put him in the same category as McVay when their results have been so drastically different thus far. I'm not even saying McVay is definitively better - more that the analysis on Shanahan is an "incomplete" right now.

So I'll admit to mispeaking on the WRs, but Goff?

Dude, I'm not gonna say he wasn't a bust, BUT HE WAS ON THE ROSTER. Goff has played every game McVay has coached outside of games where they were resting starters.

Jimmy played 5 games in 2017 because he was traded midseason, was injured in week 3 last year, and has started 3 games this year. In those games he is 9-2. It must be nice to have your QB every game. LOL.

I'm not trying to attack McVay, but in all honesty I view McVay as a student of Shanahan. He's really good, so don't get me wrong, but I think that gets twisted sometimes....like somehow McVay is leading that charge and just sprang up from nowhere. Kyle didn't either as it "started" with his father learning the WCO in SF and was the OC in '94 when they won their last SB. The following year he moved on to Denver as HC. Of course you can trace that back to Walsh and even Paul Brown.

The difference with these teams is TALENT and injury. The Rams have been better, so no question there, but should be noted that Shanahan has been coaching with his arm tied behind his back.


EDIT: Just reread that and came off much more negative than I'd intended RE McVay. To be clear, I think the guy is really, really good. I think often though Shanahan gets lost in the conversation simply because of what he's been dealing with from personnel standpoint. Just having your QB for a full season is huge. It takes time to learn these systems. Matt Ryan had a had an 89 QB rating in year one with Shanahan and 117.1 in year 2.

What Jimmy really lost last year wasn't a playoff run. It was just time behind center which he needed/needs badly. In his stead, Shanahan made freakin Nick Mullens a QB that had Seahawks fans here and more than a few Niner fans thinking HE was the real QB in SF.

BTW, pretty good article from before last year on both of them.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/06/18/sean- ... ng-rivalry

 

[Ramfan128]

Lol yikes.

First of all, I do have respect for Shannahan - but if there's any homer stuff going on, it's from the person stating an offensive minded HC who hasn't even had a winning record is better than an offensive minded HC that has been to the playoffs every year. While McVay has more talent for sure, the Rams and Niners were both horrible teams when these guys got hired.

Shannahan could be a better offensive mind, but we haven't seen enough of that yet. Talk of this February offense is odd, don't even know how to respond to that other than to say the Rams ran the ball all over the Cowboys and then passed the ball on the Saints - he's done it both ways in the playoffs. But keep in mind - I'm not downing Shannahan at all - I was impressed by what he did last year - I just haven't seen enough from him to even put him on the same level as McVay.

As for me saying Goff got figured out - check my post history, I've been consistent with that take. Most Rams fans blame McVay because he takes the blame and they're overprotective of Goff, but the reality is that Goff is what holds this offense back. It was clear in the Super Bowl if you rewatch it and focus on the WRs, and it was pretty clear last night too. I'm not throwing him out though - he's still young and has time to improve.

OK....first off its Shanahan.

Second, and I don't want to wade too deeply into this, but if your suggestion is that the talent level was equal between these teams and Shanahan and McVay have had roughly the same talent level, thats just nuts. McVay inherited a QB, RB and WRs. He inherited the best DT in the game.

Shanahan inherited Buckner, but outside of Joe Staley, they revamped EVERY SINGLE OTHER POSITION on offense. Every one.

Second, The 49ers have had their QB for a grand total of 11 games in 3 seasons....and are 9-2 in those games.

My bad on the spelling.

McVay inherited WRs? That's news to me. The Rams trio of Woods, Watkins and Kupp were all acquired after McVay was hired.

Let's not forget that Goff was a sure fire bust before McVay. Also don't forget that Gurley was atrocious the year before McVay got there, and even his rookie year was nothing compared to what he did once McVay arrived.

Starters McVay inherited that are still on the team:

Jared Goff - bust before McVay
Todd Gurley - lowest YPC in the league before McVay
Tyler Higbee - most outside of Rams fans probably don't know who he is
Rob Havenstein - average player before McVay arrived, slightly above average now

You can add Rodger Saffold for McVay's first two years - so that's 6/11 he turned over immediately and 7/11 to date - with the caveat that nobody thought Goff was going turn into a decent QB.

How about the defense?

Brockers
Donald

These are the only starters left from the Fisher days (and Brockers has been underwhelming for the past few years). There were a few more last year and obviously more the year before, but only two remain now.

The year before these two got hired, the Rams went 4-12 and the Niners 2-14 - but both wins were against the Rams. Both teams had almost the exact same point differential (-170 and -171).

We're also ignoring that, while the Rams did have Goff, the Niners had the #2 overall pick while the Rams did not have a first rounder, which would have been 5th overall.

And again - I'm not trashing Shanahan by any means - it just doesn't make sense to put him in the same category as McVay when their results have been so drastically different thus far. I'm not even saying McVay is definitively better - more that the analysis on Shanahan is an "incomplete" right now.

So I'll admit to mispeaking on the WRs, but Goff?

Dude, I'm not gonna say he wasn't a bust, BUT HE WAS ON THE ROSTER. Goff has played every game McVay has coached outside of games where they were resting starters.

Jimmy played 5 games in 2017 because he was traded midseason, was injured in week 3 last year, and has started 3 games this year. In those games he is 9-2. It must be nice to have your QB every game. LOL.

I'm not trying to attack McVay, but in all honesty I view McVay as a student of Shanahan. He's really good, so don't get me wrong, but I think that gets twisted sometimes....like somehow McVay is leading that charge and just sprang up from nowhere. Kyle didn't either as it "started" with his father learning the WCO in SF and was the OC in '94 when they won their last SB. The following year he moved on to Denver as HC. Of course you can trace that back to Walsh and even Paul Brown.

The difference with these teams is TALENT and injury. The Rams have been better, so no question there, but should be noted that Shanahan has been coaching with his arm tied behind his back.


EDIT: Just reread that and came off much more negative than I'd intended RE McVay. To be clear, I think the guy is really, really good. I think often though Shanahan gets lost in the conversation simply because of what he's been dealing with from personnel standpoint. Just having your QB for a full season is huge. It takes time to learn these systems. Matt Ryan had a had an 89 QB rating in year one with Shanahan and 117.1 in year 2.

What Jimmy really lost last year wasn't a playoff run. It was just time behind center which he needed/needs badly. In his stead, Shanahan made freakin Nick Mullens a QB that had Seahawks fans here and more than a few Niner fans thinking HE was the real QB in SF.

BTW, pretty good article from before last year on both of them.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/06/18/sean- ... ng-rivalry

You and I are actually in agreement I think. I've said all along that Shanahan has done a really good job with what he's had to work with. I think where we differ is evaluating them as head coaches - McVay has proven to be a great head coach thus far, and the jury is still out on Shanahan. Obviously Kyle has a track record of being an OC and having a ton of success though.

 

[Giedi]

Sean McVay and Kyle Shanahan - sorta like Bill Walsh and john Robinson back in the old days! :mrgreen:

 

[NINEster]

Sean McVay and Kyle Shanahan - sorta like Bill Walsh and john Robinson back in the old days! :mrgreen:

Well as far as 49ers/Rams yes....

At some point it's gonna be Bill Walsh, Sam Wyche.... :stirthepot:

 

[Giedi]

Sean McVay and Kyle Shanahan - sorta like Bill Walsh and john Robinson back in the old days! :mrgreen:

Well as far as 49ers/Rams yes....

At some point it's gonna be Bill Walsh, Sam Wyche.... :stirthepot:

Agree. 3-0 really makes it more likely than not! It would be really nice to get that 6th lombardie. :0190l: :0190l: :0190l:

 

[5_Golden_Rings]

Sean McVay and Kyle Shanahan - sorta like Bill Walsh and john Robinson back in the old days! :mrgreen:

Well as far as 49ers/Rams yes....

At some point it's gonna be Bill Walsh, Sam Wyche.... :stirthepot:

Agree. 3-0 really makes it more likely than not! It would be really nice to get that 6th lombardie. :0190l: :0190l: :0190l:

Meh, the 49ers have played no one yet. I'm just hoping they come out .500 over the next 6 games, but I'm not even expecting that. I do think the defensive line is legitimately great, but with Spoon out the defense is in trouble, and offensively they are far too inconsistent in the passing game, and with Joe Staley out Garoppolo is in danger of getting his clocked cleaned so many times he develops shell shock.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

3-0 is a solid start. But until they beat some really good teams, I'll hold off on thinking they are for real.
But, still a lot better than I anticipated. And yes, that hurt to say :shock:

 

[Giedi]

Sean McVay and Kyle Shanahan - sorta like Bill Walsh and john Robinson back in the old days! :mrgreen:

Well as far as 49ers/Rams yes....

At some point it's gonna be Bill Walsh, Sam Wyche.... :stirthepot:

Agree. 3-0 really makes it more likely than not! It would be really nice to get that 6th lombardie. :0190l: :0190l: :0190l:

Meh, the 49ers have played no one yet. I'm just hoping they come out .500 over the next 6 games, but I'm not even expecting that. I do think the defensive line is legitimately great, but with Spoon out the defense is in trouble, and offensively they are far too inconsistent in the passing game, and with Joe Staley out Garoppolo is in danger of getting his clocked cleaned so many times he develops shell shock.

Well, they've played 3 legitimate NFL teams, vs playing a college team like Ohio State. I think that means something.

But I get your point. It's a long season, and the 49ers can go sub .500 after this with a couple of key injuries. Having said that, overall the trend is positive. I sure like that vs the last 4+ years where the 49ers were not much better than a college team. sad to say.

But the W's keep coming, and that's all that counts - if a team wants to make the playoffs. Whether you win by 1 point or 100 points, a *W* is a *W.* Shanahan finally has the pieces to put a solid offensive team together and a good offensive scheme to go with it. On defense, both Seattle and the 49ers share the same kind of defensive foundations, so it's good there too., although the only difference between Seattle and the 49ers on defense, is that the 49er defensive players are a bit younger.

Totally agree - getting that 6th Lombardi is still very very very long odds right now. :? :? :?

 

[Giedi]

3-0 is a solid start. But until they beat some really good teams, I'll hold off on thinking they are for real.
But, still a lot better than I anticipated. And yes, that hurt to say :shock:

Agree. Until they beat at least one or more playoff teams from last year, I wont be convinced they are for real either. I think the Rams game that's coming up in a couple of weeks is going to be a big test for the 49ers. In the meantime, they won't make the playoffs at all if the 49ers continue to turn the ball over and make boneheaded mistakes on defense, that's for sure.

 

[Marvin49]

3-0 is a solid start. But until they beat some really good teams, I'll hold off on thinking they are for real.
But, still a lot better than I anticipated. And yes, that hurt to say :shock:

Yeah, I'm not on the "we've arrived" train either.

1) The teams haven't been wordbeaters
2) I know Jimmy will struggle. Starting is still new, he'll make some mistakes, still returning from injury.
3) They are already down Joe Staley and now will be down Ahkello Witherspoon who was having by far his best year as a pro. Verrett looked like a guy who hadn't played in 2 years in his stead.

Its a young team. They'll probably beat some teams people think they shouldn't and lose to teams everyone thinks they should beat.

I love the 3-0 start, but I'm hardly thinkin' they've arrived. It does look really promising tho, particularly in the defensive front 7.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

1-8 combined record for the 3 teams. But, you still won all 3 regardless. You can only play the teams they put in front of you. And trust me, if the Hawks won 3 games against a combined 1-8, a bunch of people would be saying we haven't beaten anyone. Look, I can't stand the Niners, but 3-0 is 3-0 regardless.

 

[Marvin49]

1-8 combined record for the 3 teams. But, you still won all 3 regardless. You can only play the teams they put in front of you. And trust me, if the Hawks won 3 games against a combined 1-8, a bunch of people would be saying we haven't beaten anyone. Look, I can't stand the Niners, but 3-0 is 3-0 regardless.

I mean, of course I'm happy with 3-0. LOL.

Just sayin', they still have ALOT of issues to resolve before they can be considered a SB contender.

I mean the Rams are 3-0 as well and your Seahawks are 2-1 and only a game behind. That's nothing.

Even if Niners go 10-6, they could still end up 3rd in the division. LOL. Long way to go.

 

[Popeyejones]

1-8 combined record for the 3 teams. But, you still won all 3 regardless. You can only play the teams they put in front of you. And trust me, if the Hawks won 3 games against a combined 1-8, a bunch of people would be saying we haven't beaten anyone. Look, I can't stand the Niners, but 3-0 is 3-0 regardless.

I mean, of course I'm happy with 3-0. LOL.

Just sayin', they still have ALOT of issues to resolve before they can be considered a SB contender.

I mean the Rams are 3-0 as well and your Seahawks are 2-1 and only a game behind. That's nothing.

Even if Niners go 10-6, they could still end up 3rd in the division. LOL. Long way to go.

Yep.

And against those three bad teams IMO they've played pretty poorly against two of them.

What we've learned so far about the 9ers this year is that unlike previous years they can beat bad teams when they're not playing particularly well.

They could be good, or they could be hovering around .500 by the end of the year.

And the injuries are starting to pile up too.

I'm *very happy* with their season so far, but not reading too much into it.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Like I said, 3-0 is 3-0. No style points in the NFL, it's not the BCS. They did what they are supposed to, they beat teams they should beat. Never apologize for a win.

 

[Popeyejones]

Like I said, 3-0 is 3-0. No style points in the NFL, it's not the BCS. They did what they are supposed to, they beat teams they should beat. Never apologize for a win.

100% agreed. It's short seasons and a ton of this is luck. You take and celebrate every win that you can get.

I'm not looking those gift horses in the mouth or anything, I'm just a little hesitant to treat them as predictive of what's going to happen next.

As far as being 3-0 goes, I think the 9ers are a fairly unconvincing 3-0, at least for me. Moving forward we'd expect them both to GET less turnovers and to HAVE less turnovers, and turnovers are the story in two out of their three games.

FWIW I think the Seahawks are a pretty unconvincing 2-1 also. If they could keep up the 2-1 pace over the season they'd be 11-5, but I haven't seen anything yet this year that makes me think that over the long run they're an 11-5 team.