Mina Kimes ranks Pete Carroll at #10 among coaches

[Sgt. Largent]

Yes.

Tom Brady is the GOAT historically.

But if you were to rank him right now, and going forward, he wouldn't be top 10, he's old, and coming out of retirement presents added challenges.

This is how most rankings work.

I will say this about Brady, it's pretty apparent that he was a bigger part of Belichick's success than people give him credit for.

The Patriot's post Brady have been mediocre at best.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Brady is the best finisher we have ever seen. Period.

 

[Fade]

I will say this about Brady, it's pretty apparent that he was a bigger part of Belichick's success than people give him credit for.

The Patriot's post Brady have been mediocre at best.

There is a reason why the Franchise QB makes way more than the HC.

Bill's still the best coach I've ever seen, in terms of moving the pieces on the chess board, and maximizing the talent he has.

Give him 2022 Geno Smith level QB play and he would win another Super Bowl.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

There is a reason why the Franchise QB makes way more than the HC.

Bill's still the best coach I've ever seen, in terms of moving the pieces on the chess board, and maximizing the talent he has.

Give him 2022 Geno Smith level QB play and he would win another Super Bowl.

Well then you have to be a little more fair to Pete don't you think? He's now helped two QB's get to the Pro Bowl. One who was on his way to putting on a gold jacket under Pete, and ended up arguably the worst QB in the entire league without Pete last year, and the other who the entire league laughed at for a decade before Pete gave him a shot.

IMO it's not an either or thing, it's a fluid marriage that takes into account both aspects of player and coach.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

The day Fade gives Pete credit for anything.............

 

[Mad Dog]

Pete built that terrible defense over many years of failed trades, free agents, and draft picks. While keeping his failed underlings in place at DC. And his cast-off QB played like a Pro-bowler.

Keeping Ken Norton at DC for four years, and following that up with Clint Hurtt is enough to expel him from the top 10. Those are simply horrible, self inflicted, terrible decisions, that undermine the entire program. Undoing do much good that Pete infact does.

You have no idea who was responsible for building that defense. Bad scouting, bad drafting by JS, bad coaching by Pete and his staff. Who really knows? I think too many people believe Pete meddles too much in personnel and I doubt very much that he does. He’s a culture and big picture guy.

 

[Mad Dog]

Top 3 coach in last decade after Bill and Andy for wins. Gotta be higher than 10th.

 

[BASF]

You have no idea who was responsible for building that defense. Bad scouting, bad drafting by JS, bad coaching by Pete and his staff. Who really knows? I think too many people believe Pete meddles too much in personnel and I doubt very much that he does. He’s a culture and big picture guy.

It's pretty interesting looking at the drafts for both the Seahawks and Raiders before, during and after when Ken Norton Jr. was the defensive coordinator. I believe he was given too much input into defensive selections for both teams during his tenures. Both teams had drops in drafting productive members for their defenses with him in that position.

 

[Fade]

Well then you have to be a little more fair to Pete don't you think? He's now helped two QB's get to the Pro Bowl. One who was on his way to putting on a gold jacket under Pete, and ended up arguably the worst QB in the entire league without Pete last year, and the other who the entire league laughed at for a decade before Pete gave him a shot.

IMO it's not an either or thing, it's a fluid marriage that takes into account both aspects of player and coach.

Pete does a great job recognizing who his QB is for sure. Which is a valuable skill to have. A lot of coaches get it wrong. Pete plays who he thinks is the best and doesn't care about the football politics of it. Which happens a lot at QB.

Wilson didn't really develop under Pete. He was the same player. Bevell was terrible for his development. Schotty did some nice things cleaning up his mechanics, but there really wasn't a progression there that one would typically expect.

Geno in a post-game presser last season gave credit to, 1st Ben McAdoo, 2nd Philip Rivers, 3rd Russell Wilson. When reporters were leading him into giving Pete the credit for his development. He gave Pete credit for the opportunity, which is true.

Sure would be nice if Pete could whisper the defense into playing great for a change.

 

[Fade]

Top 3 coach in last decade after Bill and Andy for wins. Gotta be higher than 10th.

Only won 1 super bowl with the most loaded team of that decade, hasn't sniffed an NFCCG in a decade.

 

[Fade]

You have no idea who was responsible for building that defense. Bad scouting, bad drafting by JS, bad coaching by Pete and his staff. Who really knows? I think too many people believe Pete meddles too much in personnel and I doubt very much that he does. He’s a culture and big picture guy.

The defense is Pete's baby. Quit trying to pass the buck.

Pete has particular things he's looking for & JS goes out and gets them for him based on that. Like flush a couple drafts for Jamal Adams.

He has taken more of a backseat in the last two drafts, sure, but if you don't think he is heavily involved in the construction of this defense, from personnel, to scheme, to the coaches over the last 7 years, I got some magic beans to sell ya.

 

[BASF]

The defense is Pete's baby. Quit trying to pass the buck.

Pete has particular things he's looking for & JS goes out and gets them for him based on that. Like flush a couple drafts for Jamal Adams.

He has taken more of a backseat in the last two drafts, sure, but if you don't think he is heavily involved in the construction of this defense, from personnel, to scheme, to the coaches over the last 7 years, I got some magic beans to sell ya.

I'd say it is the opposite. He gave Norton and Richard too much personnel power while they were here. It is one of the reasons I wanted PC let go. Just look at the defensive selections before Norton (which were good drafts), while Norton was with the Raiders (which were better than his tenure here) and during his return (which were bad defensive drafts) and now that he is gone again (which have been very good defensive drafts). You can do the same for the Raiders before, during and after his tenure. He is the common thread in poor drafting.

 

[Lagartixa]

Kyle Shanahan is the most overrated coach in the league, with Tomlin being #2.

I disagree with @Fade a lot here, so I just want to say I agree with this statement he made.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Only won 1 super bowl with the most loaded team of that decade, hasn't sniffed an NFCCG in a decade.

Um..........they made the super bowl the next year. Played in the NFCCG vs. the Packers in Jan. of 2015. In order to make the Super Bowl, you have to......wait for it.........make it to the NFCCG. Haven't sniffed the NFCCG in a decade? Hmm......

 

[keasley45]

The defense is Pete's baby. Quit trying to pass the buck.

Pete has particular things he's looking for & JS goes out and gets them for him based on that. Like flush a couple drafts for Jamal Adams.

He has taken more of a backseat in the last two drafts, sure, but if you don't think he is heavily involved in the construction of this defense, from personnel, to scheme, to the coaches over the last 7 years, I got some magic beans to sell ya.

After 2014, the only baby Pete had on this team was one Russel Wilson. He let everything else go back burner to try to build a team around him. And he failed. For that, he deserves to get dropped a few pegs.

But 10? He's top 5 even with the Wilson Fail. That much is obvious given how well the 'rebuild' is going.

I mean, a coach HAS to be good if he takes a team with the 33rd best qb in the league and no star players to the playoffs. Right? Right?? They were only supposed to with 4 games...

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Dear God, it never ends........
ffs this place sometimes

 

[Lagartixa]

I will say this about Brady, it's pretty apparent that he was a bigger part of Belichick's success than people give him credit for.

The Patriot's post Brady have been mediocre at best.

But Brady was slick. His contract left the Patriots with tons of dead money when he left, and that has had ripple effects for multiple years. Additionally, he went to a team that was strong everywhere except QB, knowing full well that he would get more of the credit than he deserved if he went there and performed reasonably well, and as a result the team was able to make a deep playoff run or even win a title.

Also, people keep forgetting that through his 20s, Brady was a decent-but-nowhere-near-great QB. He didn't have his first Peyton Manning-level season until age 30, and then he maintained that level for well over a decade. The debate when Brady was in his 20s was about Brady the "game manager" with more titles vs. the otherworldly sport-altering performance of Manning as a QB on $#!+ty teams. There were Colts teams that could best be described as "Peyton Manning and some guys" that Manning managed to drag to the playoffs. Brady never had to do that, because Belichick always had a solid-or-better team around Brady. Brady the game manager was enough for the Patriots to win their first three titles just because those teams were so strong overall.

If you look at Brady's career trajectory, you can see a peak around age 27 that would be about what you'd expect from a decent-but-not-great QB, and the beginning of a normal decline from that peak. Then suddenly at age 30, Brady had a season that was three times as valuable as his previous season, and more than twice as valuable as his previous best. When I say that's suspicious, it's a massive understatement. Other players have been tried, convicted, and executed as cheaters in the court of public opinion for a lot less.

It's kind of hilarious that Wilson tried to "pull a Brady" by vetoing trades until the Broncos, a team that looked a lot stronger than the Seahawks everywhere except at QB. I'm guessing he thought he was going to make the Broncos a title contender and that the Seahawks would be among the worst teams in the league. But he ended up sucking so much that the Broncos were among the five worst teams in the league, while the Seahawks made the playoffs. Instead of "pulling a Brady" and cementing his legacy, Wilson's total suckitude in 2022 made "cement shoes" for his legacy. That makes me chuckle every time I think about it.

 

[BASF]

If you look at Brady's career trajectory, you can see a peak around age 27 that would be about what you'd expect from a decent-but-not-great QB, and the beginning of a normal decline from that peak. Then suddenly at age 30, Brady had a season that was three times as valuable as his previous season, and more than twice as valuable as his previous best. When I say that's suspicious, it's a massive understatement. Other players have been tried, convicted, and executed as cheaters in the court of public opinion for a lot less.

I'm sorry, but suspicious? They added a hall of fame receiver named Randy Moss that season. Suddenly the safeties that were only ten to twelve yards deep at the snap because Brady was so good at the short intermediate routes had to start twenty yards deep at the snap. Even with the safeties deeper, teams could not stop Moss who scored forty-six percent of Brady's touchdowns. Moss is the best deep threat in the history of the game, and Brady used him to perfection. The only thing suspicious about it is how Mr. Jog down the field for the Raiders to collect a paycheck for two years decided to play to his ability for Brady and Belichick. Brady was injured the next season and his 2009 was a good bounce back season. Then they drafted Gronk and they had another hall of famer to dictate where the safeties would go. Nothing suspicious at all, just a guy who knows how to read a defense and knew how to utilize the hall of famers he played with.

 

[scutterhawk]

I'm sorry, but suspicious? They added a hall of fame receiver named Randy Moss that season. Suddenly the safeties that were only ten to twelve yards deep at the snap because Brady was so good at the short intermediate routes had to start twenty yards deep at the snap. Even with the safeties deeper, teams could not stop Moss who scored forty-six percent of Brady's touchdowns. Moss is the best deep threat in the history of the game, and Brady used him to perfection. The only thing suspicious about it is how Mr. Jog down the field for the Raiders to collect a paycheck for two years decided to play to his ability for Brady and Belichick. Brady was injured the next season and his 2009 was a good bounce back season. Then they drafted Gronk and they had another hall of famer to dictate where the safeties would go. Nothing suspicious at all, just a guy who knows how to read a defense and knew how to utilize the hall of famers he played with.

Um yeah, but nothing happens in a vacuum, those "Hall of Famers" had a LOT to do with getting open and making it a lot easier to quash Defenses and that played a big part of him becoming the GOAT...One hand washes the other.
When Wilson left the Seahawks, he left behind the continuity & mesh he had with his Receivers, so he was basically starting a reintegration with his newbie Receivers that had no history with the guy, in other words, there was no Gronk or Moss type player to help him transition & shine.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

It's kind of hilarious that Wilson tried to "pull a Brady" by vetoing trades until the Broncos, a team that looked a lot stronger than the Seahawks everywhere except at QB. I'm guessing he thought he was going to make the Broncos a title contender and that the Seahawks would be among the worst teams in the league. But he ended up sucking so much that the Broncos were among the five worst teams in the league, while the Seahawks made the playoffs. Instead of "pulling a Brady" and cementing his legacy, Wilson's total suckitude in 2022 made "cement shoes" for his legacy. That makes me chuckle every time I think about it.

It's common knowledge that Wilson's entire plan of forcing Jody to pick between him and Pete was hatched while watching Brady from the league suite in SB LV, which led to him pretty much forcing his way out of Seattle because of what you're saying here.

So I guess give Russ credit, it worked. Well, the forcing his way out for more control worked. The delusional part of thinking he's like Brady and could control a franchise and win another SB part? Err................not so much.