Paying Wilson May Hurt Seahawks Super Bowl Chances-Nemhauser

[BadgerVid]

So you're saying JS can't fit a $10 million raise this year given we had the cap space available? Now you're taking rumors of $30 million per year as legit?
There is a reason Wilson and Rodgers (a lawyer) are playing hardball. There is also reason Seahawks wouldn't contemplate offering a raise for 2015 --NFL Owners and commissioner Goddell.

We don't have $10 million in cap space lying around as it is (few teams do), add to that the potential future needs that could arise this season due to injuries and the need to extend Wagner's contract as well. We do have room, however, to give Wilson the largest signing bonus in NFL history and to give Wagner his own signing bonus this year.

This has NOTHING to do with what "NFL Owners and commissioner Goddell" would think. As Schneider has said, it has everything to do with allowing us to remain a viable Super Bowl contender in the future.

It could easily be put in a signing bonus and NOT offset in future years...that would make the SB amortizable over 5 years in spite of the fact that only 4 years are added to his commitment and have negligible effect on this year's cap...something like a $30M SB that only $20M of is offset in future years would effectively pay Wilson $11.5M for '15 and only hit the cap for $6M.

 

[hawknation2015]

So you're saying JS can't fit a $10 million raise this year given we had the cap space available? Now you're taking rumors of $30 million per year as legit?
There is a reason Wilson and Rodgers (a lawyer) are playing hardball. There is also reason Seahawks wouldn't contemplate offering a raise for 2015 --NFL Owners and commissioner Goddell.

We don't have $10 million in cap space lying around as it is (few teams do), add to that the potential future needs that could arise this season due to injuries and the need to extend Wagner's contract as well. We do have room, however, to give Wilson the largest signing bonus in NFL history and to give Wagner his own signing bonus this year.

This has NOTHING to do with what "NFL Owners and commissioner Goddell" would think. As Schneider has said, it has everything to do with allowing us to remain a viable Super Bowl contender in the future.

It could easily be put in a signing bonus and NOT offset in future years...that would make the SB amortizable over 5 years in spite of the fact that only 4 years are added to his commitment and have negligible effect on this year's cap...something like a $30M SB that only $20M of is offset in future years would effectively pay Wilson $11.5M for '15 and only hit the cap for $6M.

Now we are right back to an untenable demand for over $25 million per year in new money ($100.5 million over a four-year extension). That would have the potential to cripple this team's efforts to remain a championship contender. It's in no way a reasonable demand or in line with the current market rate of $21-22 million APY.

Edit- I may have misread your hypothetical. Were you suggesting $92.5 million in a four-year extension with a $30 million signing bonus? That would be $23.12 million APY. That's the upper end of where I would go, but if Wilson were amenable to that, I would say that looks about right to me. Hopefully, that is the kind of scenario they can eventually work out. Wilson becomes the highest paid QB in the league and receives a massive amount of money this year in signing bonus, and the team retains some cap flexibility.

 

[Russ Willstrong]

We don't have $10 million in cap space lying around as it is (few teams do), add to that the potential future needs that could arise this season due to injuries and the need to extend Wagner's contract as well. We do have room, however, to give Wilson the largest signing bonus in NFL history and to give Wagner his own signing bonus this year.

This has NOTHING to do with what "NFL Owners and commissioner Goddell" would think. As Schneider has said, it has everything to do with allowing us to remain a viable Super Bowl contender in the future.

It could easily be put in a signing bonus and NOT offset in future years...that would make the SB amortizable over 5 years in spite of the fact that only 4 years are added to his commitment and have negligible effect on this year's cap...something like a $30M SB that only $20M of is offset in future years would effectively pay Wilson $11.5M for '15 and only hit the cap for $6M.

Now we are right back to an untenable demand for over $25 million per year in new money ($100.5 million over a four-year extension). That would have the potential to cripple this team's efforts to remain a championship contender. It's in no way a reasonable demand or in line with the current market rate of $21-22 million APY.

Edit- I may have misread your hypothetical. Were you suggesting $92.5 million in a four-year extension with a $30 million signing bonus? That would be $23.12 million APY. That's the upper end of where I would go, but if Wilson were amenable to that, I would say that looks about right to me. Hopefully, that is the kind of scenario they can work out.

What those numbers basically account for $10 million as a signing bonus toward 2015. Effectively a raise. So no not 25 million per year.
And why wouldn't Seahawks listen to such an idea?

 

[hawknation2015]

We don't have $10 million in cap space lying around as it is (few teams do), add to that the potential future needs that could arise this season due to injuries and the need to extend Wagner's contract as well. We do have room, however, to give Wilson the largest signing bonus in NFL history and to give Wagner his own signing bonus this year.

This has NOTHING to do with what "NFL Owners and commissioner Goddell" would think. As Schneider has said, it has everything to do with allowing us to remain a viable Super Bowl contender in the future.

It could easily be put in a signing bonus and NOT offset in future years...that would make the SB amortizable over 5 years in spite of the fact that only 4 years are added to his commitment and have negligible effect on this year's cap...something like a $30M SB that only $20M of is offset in future years would effectively pay Wilson $11.5M for '15 and only hit the cap for $6M.

Now we are right back to an untenable demand for over $25 million per year in new money ($100.5 million over a four-year extension). That would have the potential to cripple this team's efforts to remain a championship contender. It's in no way a reasonable demand or in line with the current market rate of $21-22 million APY.

Edit- I may have misread your hypothetical. Were you suggesting $92.5 million in a four-year extension with a $30 million signing bonus? That would be $23.12 million APY. That's the upper end of where I would go, but if Wilson were amenable to that, I would say that looks about right to me. Hopefully, that is the kind of scenario they can work out.

What those numbers basically account for $10 million as a signing bonus. So no not 25 million per year.
And why wouldn't Seahawks listen to such an idea?

Sorry, I don't follow you. This is all about accounting for new money. $100+ million over a four-year extension ($25+ million APY) would hurt the team . . . $90-92 million over a four-year extension ($23 million APY) is on the high end of the spectrum but somewhat more manageable. Anything over $24 million APY is not an offer made in good faith.

 

[Fudwamper]

The Seahawks are in a unique situation...other teams have won a superbowl with a young QB, but they were able to pay that QB because the rest of their team wasn't full of young stars, and the NFL is relatively new to the QB mega contract.

Look at the QBs salaries when they won the superbowl, and you'll see a pattern:

Brady - took a paycut to field a better team

.

Tom Brady did not take a pay cut. He moved money into more guarentees at the end of his contract and increased the real money he would take home. His overall number was smaller, but it was a shell game nothing more. :17:

 

[Russ Willstrong]

Now we are right back to an untenable demand for over $25 million per year in new money ($100.5 million over a four-year extension). That would have the potential to cripple this team's efforts to remain a championship contender. It's in no way a reasonable demand or in line with the current market rate of $21-22 million APY.

Edit- I may have misread your hypothetical. Were you suggesting $92.5 million in a four-year extension with a $30 million signing bonus? That would be $23.12 million APY. That's the upper end of where I would go, but if Wilson were amenable to that, I would say that looks about right to me. Hopefully, that is the kind of scenario they can work out.

What those numbers basically account for $10 million as a signing bonus. So no not 25 million per year.
And why wouldn't Seahawks listen to such an idea?

Sorry, I don't follow you. This is all about accounting for new money. $100+ million over a four-year extension ($25+ million APY) would hurt the team . . . $90-92 million over a four-year extension ($23 million APY) is on the high end of the spectrum but a lot more manageable.

To top Newton is an APY OF 22 million per. A four year extension =88 million. Add a 10 million bonus (raise for 2015) to his signing bonus would still add to 98 million over 4 years but include 2015 salary (effectively 5 year deal if we tear up 2015).
So no the APY is not over 25 million.

 

[hawknation2015]

The Seahawks are in a unique situation...other teams have won a superbowl with a young QB, but they were able to pay that QB because the rest of their team wasn't full of young stars, and the NFL is relatively new to the QB mega contract.

Look at the QBs salaries when they won the superbowl, and you'll see a pattern:

Brady - took a paycut to field a better team

.

Tom Brady did not take a pay cut. He moved money into more guarentees at the end of his contract and increased the real money he would take home. His overall number was smaller, but it was a shell game nothing more. :17:

Yeah, except Brady could have demanded a lot more than $15 million APY in extensions. He didn't in order to help his team. That's a bad example though, as Brady is already extremely wealthy. A better example is Newton, Kaepernick, Rodgers, etc., all of whom accepted a lower initial base pay in exchange for a signing bonus that allowed their teams to incrementally increase their cap hits. This is the very thing that franchise QBs receiving their first extensions always seem to do for their teams, yet it is a practice that Wilson's agent has objected to.

To top Newton is an APY OF 22 million per. A four year extension =88 million. Add a 10 million bonus (raise for 2015) to his signing bonus would still add to 98 million over 4 years but include 2015 salary (effectively 5 year deal if we tear up 2015).
So no the APY is not over 25 million.

The hypothetical I was addressing suggested $12.5 million, not $10 million, hence my initial $100.5 million figure.

Under your different hypothetical, the APY in new money would be $24.5 million ($98 million over a four-year extension), which IMO is not a reasonable demand and would hurt the team's chances to win a Super Bowl. I am hoping they can keep the APY closer to $22 or $23 million.

 

[Russ Willstrong]

No under my hypothetical he'd have 2015 torn up and given 98 million over 5 years. 2015 at 10 million in 2015, 22 million average for the following 4 years.

A five year contract with significant signing bonus but over all $19.6 million average from 2015 until 2020.

 

[Russ Willstrong]

Since Seahawks only talk new money then that's 98 million over 4 years which is still not what you figured to be 25-27 million annually.

 

[hawknation2015]

No under my hypothetical he'd have 2015 torn up and given 98 million over 5 years. 2015 at 10 million in 2015, 22 million average for the following 4 years.

A five year contract with significant signing bonus but over all $19.6 million average from 2015 until 2020.

Through 2020 would be a five-year extension . . . tearing up 2015 is NOT possible as explained ad nauseam above. We don't have an extra $10 million in cap space to dedicate to Wilson this season, much less $19.6 million. Therefore, the $98 million would equate to $24.5 million per year in new money. That's not going to happen if the Seahawks want to maintain a championship-caliber team.

Since Seahawks only talk new money then that's 98 million over 4 years which is still not what you figured to be 25-27 million annually.

Let's also remember that this is a hypothetical that you have created on your own, not something that Wilson is rumored to be demanding (the latest rumor I saw was an even more absurd $30 million APY).

 

[Russ Willstrong]

I hope you can distinguish between UNTIL and THROUGH. I stated from 2015 UNTIL 2020 didn't I.
Also it was known that Wilson wanted to redo his contract early as possible. It was not impossible to renegotiate 2015 and yes we had the money. We just didn't plan to do so because it would set precedence as the rookie wage structure is collectively bargained. It will be revisited in 2 years I think

 

[themunn]

All these examples of a QB being the highest paid not winning the superbowl

I want to see all the examples of a team who had a franchise level QB letting him go in FA and going on to win the superbowl

 

[sam1313]

I am a little dismayed by RW in these negotiations. I have no problem saying he deserves to be the highest paid player in the league, but how does one like RW look his teammates in the eye knowing that he makes 10x more in endorsements than they do in their NFL salaries AND that he is asking for 4-20+ times what his teammates receive from the team?

From a guy who said his goal is to win as many championships as possible, and who seems in all respects to be humble and appreciative of his teammates, demanding at least 1/8 of the total salary cap is a strange position. I hate to say it, but that really, really isn't the person I thought RW was. And, I hope he snaps out of it soon.

 

[chris98251]

Time to institute a position salary range and cap scale, they are a union, every union I know of have scale for jobs and positions. That would fix this escalateing problem in the league.

 

[grizbob]

Time to institute a position salary range and cap scale, they are a union, every union I know of have scale for jobs and positions. That would fix this escalateing problem in the league.

Yeah but, most don't have members with agents to support.

 

[netskier]

Chris, I have been thinking the same thing for a while. I think this idea could work.

The basic idea of a union is to get more money for the players, collectively, from the team.

Teams strike back via Divide and Conquer, by paying the players unequally.

So, maybe the players should counter with what I call The Three Musketeers Model, namely "All for one, and one for all.", and demand that the team pay all the players equally.

Food for thought.

 

[scutterhawk]

Using Super Bowl wins is cherry picking stats. The only meaningful stat is playoff appearances. And as I already have shown in another thread, paying elite money for elite QB's guarantees a steady string of playoff appearances.

So both men's articles are crap, really.

Oh, LOL you caught that "Cherry Picking" thingy too eh?
I swear, some folks will go through more twist and turns, ride on the stats train when it supports their opinion, and then asterisk their way around an objecting stat that runs across the grain, cherry picking, and omitting some pertinent facts.
With nearly all the same star Defensive players still on the roster what if the Seahawks fail to get back to the play-offs, while paying Wilson a paltry 1.5 M, what then would be their excuse?
There is absolutely NO guarantee that if Wilson were to sign for a CAP friendly deal, that the Seahawks would be in any better position to keep on challenging for the Championship spot, but I do believe that Wilson's play is one of the biggest reasons that the Seahawks have been in "THE" conversation for the last three Seasons.
As for the "Pure Pocket Passer" crap, Wilson hasn't been asked to play that style of game, because if he were, the Seahawks would have gone with putting together an Offense that would make protecting your Quarterback a top priority, and then seriously gone after a couple of stud Receivers.
Pete Carroll hounds on "Ball Control", and that means run the ball, and to maintain possession, so Wilson does exactly that, AND, by doing what Pete Carroll wants him to do, the Stat Jocks, use it to dis on RW, by saying that he's not in the same league as Rodgers, Manning, Brady Etc. when it comes to being an Elite Pocket Passer, and therefore, shouldn't be expecting to be paid like those guys.
All I know is, that in his first three Seasons, Wilson has passed every one of those guys (Luck, & Griffin included), and has helped to put the Seahawks on the map, and in the discussion for more Super Bowl's.

 

[scutterhawk]

Chris, I have been thinking the same thing for a while. I think this idea could work.

The basic idea of a union is to get more money for the players, collectively, from the team.

Teams strike back via Divide and Conquer, by paying the players unequally.

So, maybe the players should counter with what I call The Three Musketeers Model, namely "All for one, and one for all.", and demand that the team pay all the players equally.

Food for thought.

So the super effort stars get's paid the same as the also ran's? LOL okay.

 

[netskier]

Well, the players talk continually about their brotherhood. Is that real, in your opinion, or just mind control pep talk propaganda that they use to psych themselves up, as with beating war drums?

 

[BadgerVid]

So, maybe the players should counter with what I call The Three Musketeers Model, namely "All for one, and one for all.", and demand that the team pay all the players equally...

Please say this is sarcasm...you can't really be suggesting this, can you?