Pete needs to retire

[JustTheTip]

What are the bad patterns again?

3rd most wins over the past decade in the league? 3 division titles? 8 playoff appearances? Two SB's?

Damn you Pete for all this winning!

And a downward trend since the SB win. Wonder if Philly feels bad about moving on from Reid and then Pederson. Would it be a gamble? Of course. Could we get worse? Absolutely. I just don't see Pete winning another SB. Too many red flags to ignore. And if the point is just to play frustrating football and kind of win more often than not but not have a chance at the SB, then I would be done with the Seahawks.

BTW, you want to point out "you're just doing your JTT contrarian thing cause you're bored. Idk." That isn't what I am doing. From my perspective though, it appears your "demonize the opposing opinion so you don't have to have a conversation with people who don't agree with" posting style is in full effect.

 

[morgulon1]

This defense is about 5+ Pro Bowlers down since the LOB days. Let me count the ways... Sherman, Avril, Bennett, Earl, Kam, BWags, KJ, Irvin... oops, that's 7 already. Then you add in the guys who were near-Pro-Bowl level guys or at least average-plus, guys who held up their end... Chris Clemons, Brandon Mebane, Red Bryant, Jeremy Lane, Byron Maxwell, Tony McDaniel, Clinton McDonald, Walter Thurmond, Malcolm Smith, and

The Talent+Football IQ comparison is just a joke when we look at the 2022 Seahawks compared to the 2013 Defensive roster. Who on the 2022 Seahawks Defense even holds up their end? Let's count them... Pro Bowlers: Nwosu, Diggs. Diggs has not actually played at a Pro Bowl level this year, am I wrong? After that, there are a few above-averages, Woolen, maybe Brooks, maybe Neal, after that, it's all JAGs, Poona Ford, Shelby Harris, Quenton Jefferson, Al Woods, Irvin, MJackson, Bryant, Taylor, Mafe, and after that, it's below-replacement-level stiffs, Barton, Collier, Adams, and the rest.

Someone please correct/improve my lists if you feel I've gotten it wrong and some 2022 players should be classified higher, above JAG. A bunch are so invisible it's hard to recall if they've even been on the field other than special teams. For sure Rooks like Bryant and Mafe and younger guys like Brooks still have potential upside, and Woolen looks like a future Pro Bowler. The point is the contrast between the 2013 defense and the 2022 edition, and the massively lower level of overall talent + Football IQ on the 2022 squad. Hawks would need to pick up 3-ish "Thumpers" (Chuck Knox term) in the draft and 2 more in Free Agency to even be within shouting distance of the 2013 or 2014 LOB defensive rosters.

I've not really addressed the "how" and "who is to blame" for the defensive talent dropoff here; that's a huge and somewhat speculative topic maybe someone else can tackle. I'll just say that 2013 Russell Wilson at $1M/Year vs 2021 Russell Wilson at $30M/Year is a factor. (and is it $26M dead cap in 2022?)

the list is pretty good but M Jackson will be more than a jag by the time this defense is rolling. IMHO
It's hard to lump Mafe ,K Bryant in there because he's a rookie as well. Which is what you basically said.
My theory is Seattle was in part , a victim of their own success. Always picking in the
Back part of the draft , where teams like SF were picking near the top ( many times)
Added to the fact all of our team wanted to get paid .then add in
MISTERRRUNNLIIIMMMITED.

 

[Ozzy]

If it’s a personnel issue then isn’t it reasonable to question the man in charge of the personnel? It’s completely valid and warranted as this roster just isn’t very good regardless of how people try to demonize the opposing point of view. I get why people think we would be worse off without Pete. He does a lot of things very well. I tend to be on the other side of that debate, sure it could be much worse but our areas we’ve struggled in can be fixed so it’s reasonable a fresh set of eyes and a new approach could also help this team. We’ve won one playoff game against a third string QB in years. I’m open to the idea though I don’t think it happens

 

[hawkfan68]

I'm wondering how people think Seattle is close to being a good team.

This roster is shit and they have fat bastard as defensive coordinator.

Wow! Here all this time I was thinking “Fat Bastard” was white and hairy.

 

[olyfan63]

the list is pretty good but M Jackson will be more than a jag by the time this defense is rolling. IMHO
It's hard to lump Mafe ,K Bryant in there because he's a rookie as well. Which is what you basically said.
My theory is Seattle was in part , a victim of their own success. Always picking in the
Back part of the draft , where teams like SF were picking near the top ( many times)
Added to the fact all of our team wanted to get paid .then add in
MISTERRRUNNLIIIMMMITED.

Thanks, I honestly don't know how to rate Jackson. He does make some plays, and he's a hitter, and I don't know his history enough to have any idea what to expect. Hoping for more than a JAG! I also didn't know where to categorize seemingly always-injured guys like Tre Brown. The 2013 LOB also had oft-injured guys like Walter Thurmond, who was actually good when healthy. Inexplicably, I failed to mention Brandon Browner, who IIRC was a Hawk in 2013 but somehow was injured or suspended for SB48, but certainly brought the attitude and the toughness, and screwed us the next year by causing the "The Pick" for NE, then became a full-on criminal in his personal life.

Agreed, we haven't had the draft position to acquire sure-fire generational talents like Tez or Walter Jones for a looooooong time, so here's hoping Denver helps us get one like Jalen Carter or Will Anderson. No idea how Pete and John rate QBs like Stroud and Levis or even Young, or if that's in play. I added Darrell Taylor to my "guys with untapped upside" post. Maybe a Jalen Carter in the middle would improve guys like Mafe, Taylor, and Brooks, and maybe even a healthy Alton Robinson, dunno Robinson's status.

 

[hawkfan68]

Thanks, I honestly don't know how to rate Jackson. He does make some plays, and he's a hitter, and I don't know his history enough to have any idea what to expect. Hoping for more than a JAG! I also didn't know where to categorize seemingly always-injured guys like Tre Brown. The 2013 LOB also had oft-injured guys like Walter Thurmond, who was actually good when healthy. Inexplicably, I failed to mention Brandon Browner, who IIRC was a Hawk in 2013 but somehow was injured or suspended for SB49, but certainly brought the attitude and the toughness, and screwed us the next year by causing the "The Pick" for NE, then became a full-on criminal in his personal life.

Agreed, we haven't had the draft position to acquire sure-fire generational talents like Tez or Walter Jones for a looooooong time, so here's hoping Denver helps us get one like Jalen Carter or Will Anderson. No idea how Pete and John rate QBs like Stroud and Levis or even Young, or if that's in play. I added Darrell Taylor to my "guys with untapped upside" post. Maybe a Jalen Carter in the middle would improve guys like Mafe, Taylor, and Brooks, and maybe even a healthy Alton Robinson, dunno Robinson's status.

Good post. Minor correction though - Browner was suspended for SB48. He played in SB49 for the Patriots. https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/news/the-rise-and-fall-of-former-seahawks-cb-brandon-browner

 

[Sgt. Largent]

And a downward trend since the SB win. Wonder if Philly feels bad about moving on from Reid and then Pederson. Would it be a gamble? Of course. Could we get worse? Absolutely. I just don't see Pete winning another SB. Too many red flags to ignore. And if the point is just to play frustrating football and kind of win more often than not but not have a chance at the SB, then I would be done with the Seahawks.

BTW, you want to point out "you're just doing your JTT contrarian thing cause you're bored. Idk." That isn't what I am doing. From my perspective though, it appears your "demonize the opposing opinion so you don't have to have a conversation with people who don't agree with" posting style is in full effect.

You mean the Andy Reid that has taken the Chiefs to the playoffs in every year he's been in KC since he arrived, with four conference championships, two SB's, and a Lombardi?

Lol.

You even said above you're not ready to move on from Pete, so why again are you contrarianing me? You agree with me, but yet here we are discussing your insatiable never ending desire to contrarian me every time you see my posts.

It's weird bro.

 

[JustTheTip]

You mean the Andy Reid that has taken the Chiefs to the playoffs in every year he's been in KC since he arrived, with four conference championships, two SB's, and a Lombardi?

Lol.

You even said above you're not ready to move on from Pete, so why again are you contrarianing me? You agree with me, but yet here we are discussing your insatiable never ending desire to contrarian me every time you see my posts.

It's weird bro.

And yet I am sure they are not sorry they moved on from him. What did his record look like during the last 5 or so years he was in Philadelphia? How many Super Bowls did they win in the decade-plus he was there?

I didn't say I am not ready to move on from him. Though I would rather see him moved into a capacity where he can't impact the things he is not good at, if it were my choice and the only two choices I was given were continuing with Pete exactly as things are with now or Pete leaving completely (preferably by mutual decision, if not oh well) then I would take Pete leaving completely.

 

[Chukarhawk]

I need to see 1 more season. If the defense isn't at least 15-18th, then fire him next year. This year after year of bad defensive teams is unacceptable.