Poll: Leonard Williams trade

[chris98251]

Well we now have two DT guys and a expensive interior on defense, we better stop the damn run this year.

 

[Parallax]

Sure we could have made a run at him, but odds would have been against us at signing him. Trading for him, let Williams be part of the Seahawks team, building bonds with players on the team and the GM, getting to enjoy the Pacific Northwest for a year. That one year gave us a huge inside track to signing Williams and for a reasonable contract.

Doesn't look to me like we received any sort of hometown discount. Therefore, I have no reason to believe what you've said is accurate.

 

[Parallax]

You can manifest results thought impossible by pure belief. That's what the LOB was. That's what Russell's career was. That's what our comebacks were. That's what Geno's resurgence was.

It can work. Sometimes it doesn't.

If there's a single person I'd like to be the last in the world to give up reckless belief in the Seattle Seahawks, it'd be our head coach.

I can believe I fart fairy dust but it doesn't make it true. I think our problem has been a lack of critical thinking these last several years. The LOB wasn't just belief. Those guys played with attitude but they were also incredibly talented. Same for Russ when he was mobile. If belief alone were enough, he wouldn't suck now. Sherm and Kam and Thomas would still be playing. Lynch too.

Don't get me wrong. I love attitude. Great coaches motivate. They also think critically and make smart choices, taking calculated risks least less likely to fail and more likely to pay off. Carroll was not that guy.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I can believe I fart fairy dust but it doesn't make it true. I think our problem has been a lack of critical thinking these last several years. The LOB wasn't just belief. Those guys played with attitude but they were also incredibly talented. Same for Russ when he was mobile. If belief alone were enough, he wouldn't suck now. Sherm and Kam and Thomas would still be playing. Lynch too.

Don't get me wrong. I love attitude. Great coaches motivate. They also think critically and make smart choices, taking calculated risks least less likely to fail and more likely to pay off. Carroll was not that guy.

I think if you're 5-2 and you know you need something more to try to sustain, I think it's fine to make that decision. Especially since he ended up being a worthy player. Even though they couldn't sustain the momentum, I don't begrudge them for trying. It's not short-sighted if they were always going to re-sign the guy, or at least make a real attempt.

If we're 5-2 and sitting at first in the NFCW against all odds, I love anything they'd try to do to sustain that.

 

[hieroglyphics]

You can manifest results thought impossible by pure belief. That's what the LOB was. That's what Russell's career was. That's what our comebacks were. That's what Geno's resurgence was.

It can work. Sometimes it doesn't.

If there's a single person I'd like to be the last in the world to give up reckless belief in the Seattle Seahawks, it'd be our head coach.

Not sure Geno's resurgence was him "manifesting" results out of pure belief.

People act like Geno overcame such massive odds, out of nowhere, but the stank on his career was because he had the unfortunate path into the league by being drafted onto the Jets, who only ruin everyone they ever draft or play at the QB position.

In reality Geno in Seattle has simply played up to his own talent, not sure that is the same as manifesting some next level performance out of left field. The guy was an All American talent in HS, 1st team all state in Florida, out of Broward County, which alongside Miami-Dade, probably produce more NFL talent in the entire nation in a single HS class. He also holds all time pass records too for WVU, so Geno always had the ability to be an NFL starting QB but was totally derailed by New York.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Not sure Geno's resurgence was him "manifesting" results out of pure belief.

People act like Geno overcame such massive odds, out of nowhere, but the stank on his career was because he had the unfortunate path into the league by being drafted onto the Jets, who only ruin everyone they ever draft or play at the QB position.

In reality Geno in Seattle has simply played up to his own talent, not sure that is the same as manifesting some next level performance out of left field. The guy was an All American talent in HS, 1st team all state in Florida, out of Broward County, which alongside Miami-Dade, probably produce more NFL talent in the entire nation in a single HS class. He also holds all time pass records too for WVU, so Geno always had the talent, he just got totally ruined by the Jets (& Giants).

Nonono, I meant Pete manifesting those results by believing in Geno despite the rest of the world laughing their dicks off at us.

Believing in a guy that no outside observer did.

 

[12forlife]

Doesn't look to me like we received any sort of hometown discount. Therefore, I have no reason to believe what you've said is accurate.

Hometown discount? Was never going to happen with this possibly being his last big contract? Feel lucky we got him at $21, and not $25 Wilkins, or $32 Jones. Williams didn't owe us nothing, but getting him here mid season and adapting to the PNW, plus how our organization is ran all probably came into play with him signing back?

 

[Parallax]

I think if you're 5-2 and you know you need something more to try to sustain, I think it's fine to make that decision. Especially since he ended up being a worthy player. Even though they couldn't sustain the momentum, I don't begrudge them for trying. It's not short-sighted if they were always going to re-sign the guy, or at least make a real attempt.

If we're 5-2 and sitting at first in the NFCW against all odds, I love anything they'd try to do to sustain that.

That 5-2 record seemed phonier than a three dollar bill. Who had they really beat? The Lions but it seemed we caught them flat footed. Looked like crap against the Rams.

 

[Maelstrom787]

That 5-2 record seemed phonier than a three dollar bill. Who had they really beat? The Lions but it seemed we caught them flat footed. Looked like crap against the Rams.

Sure, but this type of defeatist attitude is for fans like us, not guys who are trying to go on a real run. You can't let that doubt creep in at any level organizationally. It's just incompatible with a winning culture.

 

[Chevy]

Doesn't look to me like we received any sort of hometown discount. Therefore, I have no reason to believe what you've said is accurate.

It was a discount compared to what the Raiders paid Wilkinson.

 

[seabowl]

It was a discount compared to what the Raiders paid Wilkinson.

Wilkins > Williams
That is why Williams was slightly less expensive

 

[Parallax]

Sure, but this type of defeatist attitude is for fans like us, not guys who are trying to go on a real run. You can't let that doubt creep in at any level organizationally. It's just incompatible with a winning culture.

Rah, rah is fine on game day. But it can't get in the way of clear judgment in the executive suite. Colin Cowherd spoke of this yesterday in light of the Mac Jones trade. His point was that head coaches tend to screw things up when they substitute their judgments for those of the GM. He said GMs and their scouts watch many college games, live and on TV, meet the players, talk to their coaches, and get a good sense of who they are. All while the season is going. Meanwhile, the head coach and his staff are busy trying to coach the team and win games. Then the GM and maybe a few coaches head to the combine and develop snap judgments, based on not enough information, and then substitute their judgments for those of the people who know so much more on draft day.

He cited John Schneider and said he was going to leave the Seahawks if not given more control on draft day. I guess he was asserting that that's when things turned around. He was saying that Billichick lost his job over the Mac Jones pick as much as anything else.

This is not a perfect analogy for trades, as coaches tend to scout and have familiarity with opponents. But they tend to make less informed decisions. I think we're well past due for giving Schneider free reign so we can see what he can accomplish. Hopefully no more idiotic trades.

 

[Scout]

Mac is just salivating to have a talented front of Reed, Williams and Jones. Mac needs to find some ILBs that can flow and crash the A gaps and the run defense will be better.

The difference is that Seahawks last year were playing too much nickel and dime defense to counter passing attacks which makes you light in the box. Teams caught onto that and just ran the ball against such an alingment. For a nickel or a dime defense to work you need to use some big nickels or have uber talented NCB that can play smash mouth to stack and shed near the LOS.

Mac's approach to stop early down passing attacks is to use three shallow zone looks with ILB and OLB from a base defense which means they should be better against the run from a scheme stand point as well.

Adding Wagz and Bush proved that with some competent ILB play the Hawks can do better stopping the run. But now there is a chance to obtain ILB with higher upside to be right behind that wall of Reed, Williams and Jones.

 

[seabowl]

Another article that points out the Seahawks hurting themselves on a deal. Basically says they pigeonholed themselves and had to pay up for Williams or the trade would’ve looked like a bust. The Seahawks did the same thing to themselves with the Jamal Adams deal. You don’t acquire a player without renegotiating their contract PRIOR to commencing the trade.

Leonard Williams returns to Seahawks: Contract details and grade

Leonard Williams made a lasting impression on the Seahawks that helped him earn an extension.

fansided.com

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Who cares? They got the deal done and a fair market value in 2024.
Big Cat is a beast, and there are guys getting a hell of a lot more per year. Love the deal. Now let's get Patrick Queen in here.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Mac is just salivating to have a talented front of Reed, Williams and Jones. Mac needs to find some ILBs that can flow and crash the A gaps and the run defense will be better.

The difference is that Seahawks last year were playing too much nickel and dime defense to counter passing attacks which makes you light in the box. Teams caught onto that and just ran the ball against such an alingment. For a nickel or a dime defense to work you need to use some big nickels or have uber talented NCB that can play smash mouth to stack and shed near the LOS.

Mac's approach to stop early down passing attacks is to use three shallow zone looks with ILB and OLB from a base defense which means they should be better against the run from a scheme stand point as well.

Adding Wagz and Bush proved that with some competent ILB play the Hawks can do better stopping the run. But now there is a chance to obtain ILB with higher upside to be right behind that wall of Reed, Williams and Jones.

Reed, Williams, Jones and Nwusu. Pretty damn solid D Line, imo.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Hometown discount? Was never going to happen with this possibly being his last big contract? Feel lucky we got him at $21, and not $25 Wilkins, or $32 Jones. Williams didn't owe us nothing, but getting him here mid season and adapting to the PNW, plus how our organization is ran all probably came into play with him signing back?

Yep. Only on dot everything sucks would some people complain about a huge signing on the D Line. FFS, this place sometimes.

 

[Parallax]

Another article that points out the Seahawks hurting themselves on a deal. Basically says they pigeonholed themselves and had to pay up for Williams or the trade would’ve looked like a bust. The Seahawks did the same thing to themselves with the Jamal Adams deal. You don’t acquire a player without renegotiating their contract PRIOR to commencing the trade.

Leonard Williams returns to Seahawks: Contract details and grade

Leonard Williams made a lasting impression on the Seahawks that helped him earn an extension.

fansided.com

Thanks for posting that. Here's what strikes me as the key take-away:

"However, the Seahawks pigeon-holed themselves when they sent a trade package that included a second-round pick to the Giants, giving Williams the leverage in contract negotiations and putting them in a position where they had to overpay to keep him or risk losing him for nothing in free agency after sacrificing legitimate draft capital to acquire him."

"Spotrac’s calculated market value projected Williams to earn $16.7 million annually in his next contract, which he easily surpassed in his new deal with Seattle."

Would it have been better to let him walk? Truthfully, I don't know. I think it's right on the line. If he doesn't continue to perform at a super high level for the next three years, it will be seen in retrospect as another bad signing. The kind of splashy free-agent signing that the best teams don't do.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

It's an OPINION, not a fact. But clearly you don't like the deal, and that's fine.
Welcome back BIG CAT!

 

[seabowl]

Thanks for posting that. Here's what strikes me as the key take-away:

"However, the Seahawks pigeon-holed themselves when they sent a trade package that included a second-round pick to the Giants, giving Williams the leverage in contract negotiations and putting them in a position where they had to overpay to keep him or risk losing him for nothing in free agency after sacrificing legitimate draft capital to acquire him."

"Spotrac’s calculated market value projected Williams to earn $16.7 million annually in his next contract, which he easily surpassed in his new deal with Seattle."

Would it have been better to let him walk? Truthfully, I don't know. I think it's right on the line. If he doesn't continue to perform at a super high level for the next three years, it will be seen in retrospect as another bad signing. The kind of splashy free-agent signing that the best teams don't do.

Agree, as that was my point. By not negotiating a contract extension prior to a trade, you give the player tons of leverage. I’m really surprised that Schneider did not learn this from the Jamal Adams trade. It’s negotiating 101.