Reasons why Russell Wilson is factually ELITE...

[Hasselbeck]

It's probably just my definition of the word elite.. but I use it sparingly .. Wilson is a great player.. but I don't think he's in that elite category yet.

But the beauty of this team is .. he doesn't have to be in order to be successful.

 

[Hasselbeck]

Elite quarterback, yes. Elite passer, no. Elite passers diagnose and dissect defenses. But usually have decent receivers. Something doesn't pass the eye test and I'm still way too lazy to figure out why.

Elite passer better than Peyton was at this stage. Passer rate 100.00. You lose.

Not even remotely true. :lol:

 

[hawksurething]

Elite quarterback, yes. Elite passer, no. Passers diagnos and dissect defenses. But usually have decent receivers. Something doesn't pass the eye test and I'm still way too lazy to figure out why.

Elite passer better than Peyton was at this stage. Passer rate 100.00. You lose.

Not even remotely true. :lol:

Jeesh hasselbeck fan why must you always try to hate on our hawks with make believe ??? I give data,not opinions..http://www.nfl.com/player/russellwilson ... areerstats

So it is TRUE !

It took Peyton 7 years to finally reach 100.00. And he had hall of fame 1st round WRs & pro bowl TEs & RBs & stud oline. http://www.nfl.com/player/peytonmanning ... areerstats

Don't try to down our QB again with false hoods.

 

[brimsalabim]

I don't think the guy will ever get his due but I don't believe he cares. He has and should continue to be highly successful and that's what is important to Russ, not praise from mediots. He will never be black enough to gain the respect of many in the black community and he will not be white enough to ease some others. There will never be anything that he can do to convince those people anyway.

 

[OkieHawk]

Is this guy related to Anthony!?

 

[Hasselbeck]

Elite quarterback, yes. Elite passer, no. Passers diagnos and dissect defenses. But usually have decent receivers. Something doesn't pass the eye test and I'm still way too lazy to figure out why.

Elite passer better than Peyton was at this stage. Passer rate 100.00. You lose.

Not even remotely true. :lol:

Jeesh hasselbeck fan why must you always try to hate on our hawks with make believe ??? I give data,not opinions..http://www.nfl.com/player/russellwilson ... areerstats

So it is TRUE !

It took Peyton 7 years to finally reach 100.00. And he had hall of fame 1st round WRs & pro bowl TEs & RBs & stud oline. http://www.nfl.com/player/peytonmanning ... areerstats

Don't try to down our QB again with false hoods.

:34853_doh:

My lord your posts are painful.

You said.. Wilson is a better passer than Peyton Manning was after 3 seasons. I don't give a crap about QBR .. because that's a deceiving statistic, case in point.. your entire argument here. Also love how Peyton apparently had an all-star cast when he started his career.. you know since they won 3 games his rookie year and 2 the year before. He totally walked into a winning situation. And maybe, just maybe, the "pro bowl tight ends" made the Pro Bowl because of Peyton Manning.

And furthermore.. it's not "hate" you dunce.. it's fact. Peyton Manning is one of the greatest quarterbacks in the history of the league. Russell Wilson is a very good player.. but as a passer, he is nowhere near Peyton Manning through 3 seasons. Yes.. Russ had that rookie record. That's neat.

Wilson -- 9950 yards, 72 TD
Manning first 3 years -- 12287, 110 TD

YEP WILSON SURE IS SCHOOLING PEYTON.

Oh and unlike Luck, Peyton put up these numbers with a rushing game. Edgerrin James actually had better seasons than Marshawn Lynch.

I agree on one point, this offense needs more weapons in the passing game.. and who knows, maybe if they are able to get that then Russ can start to really develop as a passer. But as of today, he doesn't have those things.. he rarely throws over the middle with a lot of consistency.. and he's not very good in the pocket. These are all facts.

 

[Rob12]

IMO, people who bitch about the Seattle O-line are way off base.

True story. When asked about the best offensive line he faced this year, Brandon Marshall, LB for the Broncos, said the Seahawks O-line was it. The best he had faced.

Yet some Hawk fans continually label it as awful.

In run situations?

I mean, add some context to the quote. It's no mystery that Tom Cable was told to bring the best run blocking line to the Seahawks, and he accomplished that. Now, if Marshall said, "In passing situations, the Seahawks had the best offensive line" he'd faced, I would believe it. But context is huge, and your post is devoid of it. Bottom line, at the very best, the Seahawks had a below average line in PASSING SITUATIONS. Unless of course you render the advanced statistics sites useless.

Honestly, there are many functions of an offensive line. To not put context behind the actual quote is intellectual dishonesty at best.

 

[Rob12]

Elite quarterback, yes. Elite passer, no. Elite passers diagnose and dissect defenses. But usually have decent receivers. Something doesn't pass the eye test and I'm still way too lazy to figure out why.

If you're too lazy, then don't post on a RW thread. Honestly, it's the equivalent of, "You're wrong, but I don't know or don't care to find out why." Which makes your post useless.

RW has had minimal talent surrounding him in the passing game. He has an offensive line of road graders, which is awesome for us. But in the passing game, a few of those dudes struggle. Overall, it's an above average line (when HEALTHY, which quite honestly hasn't been all that often). When I look at the sheer data in the passing game, I see four (count them dude, FOUR) undrafted wide outs, two rookies, a fifth round tight end, an undrafted tight end, and an injury prone tight end plucked off of the street. That's what I see. That's what Russell has down field.

Can we withhold judgment on Russell's passing prowess until he has a LEGIT No. 1 and No. 2 wide receiver and a serviceable tight end? Honest question, because he has never had any of the three. Tate is a good No. 2, but he was gone until true chemistry could be built. Miller? Hurt. Willson? Great potential, but unrealized at this point.

I get tired of the Wilson detractors, and I'm not even saying that you're one. But at the end of the day, I see our QB with a below average pass blocking line and a below average receiving corps. And then I look at the numbers, and they are damn good. Give this kid some true weapons in the passing game and watch him flourish. I'm tired of seeing him directing traffic and pushing guys to NOT GIVE UP MIDPLAY (see Kearse) in the middle of a scramble.

If RW isn't elite, no QB in the NFL is. I have been watching football for 25 years now, and I can't remember a QB who throws a more accurate deep ball and extends plays like RW does.

 

[Rob12]

I'll say this then I will happily bow out.

We need to implement some plays where Russell can get rid of the ball with a quickness. It's how Brady beat us -- get rid of the rock before the pressure comes. A lot of this is on RW and not wanting to make mistakes. But if he can evolve into a guy in an offense where he gets rid of the ball at a league average rate, he's as dangerous of a QB that has ever played the game.

He's worth every damn penny of any contact that comes his way. I honestly can't imagine this team without RW, just like I can't imagine this team without Beast. They are two cogs that simply cannot be replaced at this point given our personnel.

We just need to get him more talent in the passing game. And while saying that, I also am cognizant of the fact that Bevell needs to get better, as does RW. I saw hawkblogger's post about Baldwin's fairly good day against Revis. We just need to get better in the passing game. That is what will make our offense go from pretty good to great. But at the end of the day, RW is most definitely NOT the problem when it comes to what we do in the passing game. Philosophy and overall personnel needs to change in order for us to maximize what we have.

 

[hawksurething]

Elite passer better than Peyton was at this stage. Passer rate 100.00. You lose.[/quote]

Not even remotely true. :lol:[/quote]

Jeesh hasselbeck fan why must you always try to hate on our hawks with make believe ??? I give data,not opinions..http://www.nfl.com/player/russellwilson ... areerstats

So it is TRUE !

It took Peyton 7 years to finally reach 100.00. And he had hall of fame 1st round WRs & pro bowl TEs & RBs & stud oline. http://www.nfl.com/player/peytonmanning ... areerstats

Don't try to down our QB again with false hoods.[/quote]

:34853_doh:

My lord your posts are painful.

You said.. Wilson is a better passer than Peyton Manning was after 3 seasons. I don't give a crap about QBR .. because that's a deceiving statistic, case in point.. your entire argument here. Also love how Peyton apparently had an all-star cast when he started his career.. you know since they won 3 games his rookie year and 2 the year before. He totally walked into a winning situation. And maybe, just maybe, the "pro bowl tight ends" made the Pro Bowl because of Peyton Manning.

And furthermore.. it's not "hate" you dunce.. it's fact. Peyton Manning is one of the greatest quarterbacks in the history of the league. Russell Wilson is a very good player.. but as a passer, he is nowhere near Peyton Manning through 3 seasons. Yes.. Russ had that rookie record. That's neat.

Wilson -- 9950 yards, 72 TD
Manning first 3 years -- 12287, 110 TD

YEP WILSON SURE IS SCHOOLING PEYTON.

Oh and unlike Luck, Peyton put up these numbers with a rushing game. Edgerrin James actually had better seasons than Marshawn Lynch.

I agree on one point, this offense needs more weapons in the passing game.. and who knows, maybe if they are able to get that then Russ can start to really develop as a passer. But as of today, he doesn't have those things.. he rarely throws over the middle with a lot of consistency.. and he's not very good in the pocket. These are all facts.[/quote]

Nope your wrong again. Passer rating is still 100.00. Of course Peyton. Has more TDs and yards throwing to 1st round WRs like marvin,& Wayne. And no Peyton did not make Wayne. He was still good with painter. Jeesh.

Anyways I don't like Peyton. I like Wilson . both Peyton & Wilson are elite passers. So there. You happy now ?

But wilson had 100.00 passer rating .

 

[hawksurething]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... lsRu00.htm

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... nnPe00.htm

So there Wilson had a better passer rating than Peyton his 1st three years !!!

 

[Rob12]

Hasselbeck,

Riddle me this... Are you an advocate for giving RW the richest contract in NFL history?

Simple, point blank question. Yes, or no.

If yes, then your post is rendered utterly useless. I respect your posts and it basically comes down to this. The comparing numbers thing is futile. It's a different era of football right now; comparing Russell's stats with Manning's early in the career is intellectually dishonest at absolute best.

I want it point blank - extend Russ the richest contract in league history, or move on without him after 2015? I mean, that's the million dollar question at this point. Comparisons be damned/

 

[CurryStopstheRuns]

Is this guy related to Anthony!?

I believe that it is Anthony!

 

[CurryStopstheRuns]

I said block for a 3 step drop which is over 3 secs...

Not if the three step drop is executed properly.

 

[El Caliente]

Not even a 'Hawks fan but your preaching to the choir with this (OP). I know if Bree's weren't on my team I would take Russ over any other qb out there to build my franchise around. He has "It". A lot of people will point to a bad NFCC game, or the final Seahawks play of the Super Bowl, but those people are also the ones that just want to hate him. They were going to find something inaccurate to pin on him, those just happen to be two evident reasons.

Wilson is worth whatever you guys pay for him, and I hope we don't have to face you guys until we get out team right.

 

[El Caliente]

Ano, I don't hate your wr's, but could you get the man a few better options than what he is currently throwing to? No offense to Baldwin or Lockett, or your te, but please, get the man a couple of wr's that are legit threats. Watching him throw to that crew is like watching my Saints in the mid 90's with Quadry Ismael and Andre Hastings as our 1-2 punch.

The crew he is throwing to is further proof as to how good Russ is.

 

[Ramfan128]

I'm hoping that I don't get bashed for this because I'm a Rams fan....but if I do, oh well. I like your board and I have an opinion about this, so I'm going to share it...

I think the most difficult thing to figure out in the NFL is whether QBs make WRs good, or WRs make QBs good; or if it's 50/50. I'm willing to bet that all of us have opinions that go both ways: I personally think that Peyton Manning made Brandon Stokley a 1,000 yard WR, and I think Tom Brady made Wes Welker a great player (didn't do much with a bad QB in Miami). On the flip side, I think Kurt Warner was made by Bruce, Holt, and Faulk.

Complaining about a QB not having enough weapons automatically means he's not elite IMO. Elite QBs raise the level of play, and I've seen enough of Doug Baldwin to be fairly confident that with Peyton Manning, he could be a 1500 yard 10 TD WR.

So IMO, Wilson is excluded from the elite category. But where it gets really impossible to gauge these guys is when you factor in the offense they play in, all the players around them, and what they are asked to do - this last part, none of us know - because we are not in the film room or on the sideline with these coaches and players.

Here is what I see when I watch Russell Wilson play: a very good player, unique in his ability to avoid the rush but simultaneously takes too many sacks. The offensive line does get beat, but they also provide him with 10 seconds sometimes - way more time than any NFL QB should expect to get. I know there are metrics that say your offensive line doesn't pass protect well, and I don't want to argue that. But when I watch Wilson play, I see a guy that doesn't read defenses as quickly as elite QBs, doesn't get rid of the ball as quickly, and takes too many sacks for someone with his athleticism.

His passer rating thus far I attribute to him being a good player and the offense he plays in. I believe having a good defense helps his game as well. I believe people give him too much credit and not enough blame, the opposite of what happens to most QBs, because Seattle is not a pass first team. The Seahawks are in a position where they have to sign him, but doing so might prevent them from getting back to the superbowl - I'm sure the Patriots, at the height of their dynasty, thought they'd win several more. They were certainly picked to. Took 10 years for it to happen though.

Finally, when assessing NFL QBs, I look at it like this: in what order would I "draft" these QBs if I was starting a franchise from scratch. You can point to stats all day, but at the end of it it's everyone's eyeball test and bias that truly influences their opinions. Wilson is way down on my list of QBs to start a franchise with, because I don't believe he is capable of shouldering the load of a franchise. I can cite specific games, but he's had good games and bad games. His doubters will point to the NFCCG against Green Bay, and his supporters might point to the game he had in St. Louis against the Rams (a great performance) - but at the end of the day, how good of a player he truly is won't be proven for years - QBs, specifically, are a product of what is around them. You say bad Oline, I say great running game. You say bad WRs, I say great defense and special teams. It all comes together to play a large role in the success or failure of a QB....I hope he does get a $20 million contract, but I wouldn't do it.

 

[El Caliente]

So you don't pay him $20+mil, and in two years Lynch is gone. You are back to square one, while somebody does pay Wilson, has their Drew Brees, and wins a Super Bowl (or two). I see no net gain for the Seahawks in letting Wilson leave. Their defense is great, but you need a QB like Wilson to stir the drink on offense. You aren't going to get that kind of play just anywhere.

 

[canfan]

I don't get the obsession with whether or not RW is "elite". Who cares!? Elite status in the eyes of the pundits and bloggers does not add a single win to the season and lack of it does not add losses. This is just my view and anybody is welcome to take exception to it, but what I see is a guy who is still learning parts of the game and has the athleticism to allow him to learn "on the run", so to speak. He has all the tools to succeed and every year he learns more, and is surprised less by defenses.

A case in point are his last 3 games against Arizona. At the end of 2013, he lost and struggled a lot with the pressure and game plan that the Cards came up with. In the first game this year, he was again surprised occasionally by exotic blitz packages and took too many sacks. But he was much more effective and was able to operate the offense effectively while seldom putting the ball at risk. Game 3, he simply shredded the Cards defense. He saw and recognized everything they were trying to do and knew how to beat their scheme. RW is a young man who studies and LEARNS. His future is bright, and he will continue to improve, not because his physical tools are necessarily "elite", but because his mind just might be..

While some point at the O-line as a weakness, I agree with those who say its not the biggest problem. Blocking for a QB who extends the play is hard enough, but when he scrambles around the linemen don't know where he is. Hard to pick the proper angle to block at when you are guessing every play. Add to that the injuries over the last 2 years have made it hard to form the kind of continuity that is essential to good line play. Others point to the receivers as a weak link. While there is nobody on the staff who warrants double coverage, and this is an area I would love to see improvement in, they are a competent group, and again I believe the major problem is a matter of continuity. Starting 2013, the top 2 wide outs were Sidney Rice and Golden Tate, with Doug Baldwin in the slot. A lot of training camp and early season was wasted trying to develop Percy Harvin as a major target. The lack of time with any of the receivers (Baldwin being the exception) has, in my opinion slowed down the development of the timing routes and quick hitters.

I also believe that some of what we are seeing is coaching. Russell sometimes seems reluctant to pull the trigger, especially across the middle. While some of this may be his size, I don't think its the main reason. After all, he has shown the ability to slide in the pocket to find lanes. Maybe this is due to ball security being an overriding mandate of the team. Who knows? I do think that as RW grows in confidence and develops rapport with receivers, the timing passes will become better. I think we are still a couple of years away from Wilson's best football, and I for one can't wait to see what the next year will bring.

 

[hawksurething]

I hate throws over the middle that get tipped for ints!