Reasons why Russell Wilson is factually ELITE...

[Sac]

I hate throws over the middle that get tipped for ints!

You know, I've never met anyone that actually liked when that happened. At least not to their QB.

 

[canfan]

I'm hoping that I don't get bashed for this because I'm a Rams fan....but if I do, oh well. I like your board and I have an opinion about this, so I'm going to share it...

I think the most difficult thing to figure out in the NFL is whether QBs make WRs good, or WRs make QBs good; or if it's 50/50. I'm willing to bet that all of us have opinions that go both ways: I personally think that Peyton Manning made Brandon Stokley a 1,000 yard WR, and I think Tom Brady made Wes Welker a great player (didn't do much with a bad QB in Miami). On the flip side, I think Kurt Warner was made by Bruce, Holt, and Faulk.

Complaining about a QB not having enough weapons automatically means he's not elite IMO. Elite QBs raise the level of play, and I've seen enough of Doug Baldwin to be fairly confident that with Peyton Manning, he could be a 1500 yard 10 TD WR.

So IMO, Wilson is excluded from the elite category. But where it gets really impossible to gauge these guys is when you factor in the offense they play in, all the players around them, and what they are asked to do - this last part, none of us know - because we are not in the film room or on the sideline with these coaches and players.

Here is what I see when I watch Russell Wilson play: a very good player, unique in his ability to avoid the rush but simultaneously takes too many sacks. The offensive line does get beat, but they also provide him with 10 seconds sometimes - way more time than any NFL QB should expect to get. I know there are metrics that say your offensive line doesn't pass protect well, and I don't want to argue that. But when I watch Wilson play, I see a guy that doesn't read defenses as quickly as elite QBs, doesn't get rid of the ball as quickly, and takes too many sacks for someone with his athleticism.

His passer rating thus far I attribute to him being a good player and the offense he plays in. I believe having a good defense helps his game as well. I believe people give him too much credit and not enough blame, the opposite of what happens to most QBs, because Seattle is not a pass first team. The Seahawks are in a position where they have to sign him, but doing so might prevent them from getting back to the superbowl - I'm sure the Patriots, at the height of their dynasty, thought they'd win several more. They were certainly picked to. Took 10 years for it to happen though.

Finally, when assessing NFL QBs, I look at it like this: in what order would I "draft" these QBs if I was starting a franchise from scratch. You can point to stats all day, but at the end of it it's everyone's eyeball test and bias that truly influences their opinions. Wilson is way down on my list of QBs to start a franchise with, because I don't believe he is capable of shouldering the load of a franchise. I can cite specific games, but he's had good games and bad games. His doubters will point to the NFCCG against Green Bay, and his supporters might point to the game he had in St. Louis against the Rams (a great performance) - but at the end of the day, how good of a player he truly is won't be proven for years - QBs, specifically, are a product of what is around them. You say bad Oline, I say great running game. You say bad WRs, I say great defense and special teams. It all comes together to play a large role in the success or failure of a QB....I hope he does get a $20 million contract, but I wouldn't do it.

Well, he's no Sam Bradford, but we kind of like him.

 

[kearly]

Duh. Any o-line can block UNDER 3 secs !

Incorrect. Some lines are great at it. Some lines are full of matadors and suck at it. There are rankings on this stat. Go look it up. Seattle is league average at it.

 

[hawksurething]

Duh. Any o-line can block UNDER 3 secs !

Incorrect. Some lines are great at it. Some lines are full of matadors and suck at it. There are rankings on this stat. Go look it up. Seattle is league average at it.

Yes you are 100% correct about being average pass blocking for UNDER 3 seconds.
But the standard is 3 secs or over for a 3 step drop. Look it up.

Also we still have the most penetrated oline in the NFL pass blocking ...watch film and you will see how fast guys either push them back,whiff,or just come plain clean. I watch every hawks game with the ticket or live so I seen it plenty of times.

http://musketfire.com/2015/01/29/new-en ... uper-bowl/

The link shows a key reason why Brady was so successful vs the #1 defense. Had his 3 seconds to throw to better receivers than ours like lafell & gronk ! (Edelman was just a mismatch vs the tall young Thurman).
While hawks oline was good vs the weak pats pass rush...they suck vs any good Rush Dline.

 

[KiwiHawk]

I hate throws over the middle that get tipped for ints!

One of the problems with Wilson being short in comparison to many other NFL quarterbacks is that the receivers don't always get to see much of his arm movement when he's passing to them over the middle. Sometimes the first clue they have that the ball is coming their way is seeing the ball coming their way. That gives them less time to react to the pass than if they saw the arm movement, and hence increases the likelihood of them muffing the catch and potentially causing an interception.

 

[theincrediblesok]

The throws over the middle is why it's important for the WR to have timing with the QB. Richardson was doing great at it with Russell before he got injured.

 

[farhat]

The Seahawks offensive line is good at run blocking but not pass protection. Teddy Bruschi did film analysis of all 32 teams. Offensive lines. The Seahawks rated 32nd in the league in pass protection. They have a hard time controlling the line of scrimmage. This has worked okay since Wilson can scramble and make plays outside the pocket. However, when Wilson was in the pocket in the Super Bowl, he often held the ball too long and missed open receivers. That's part of his game he needs to work on.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Anyone who doesn't realize that Russ is one of the best in football is plain clueless.

 

[KiwiHawk]

Anyone who doesn't realize that Russ is one of the best in football is plain clueless.

As is anyone who doesn't recognise he still has things to work on.

Fortunately the greatest upside to Wilson is that he does work on things. Relentlessly.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Of course he has things to work on. He has been in the league 3 years. But is clearly in the top 5 to 7 in the league, already. You're right, he is relentless. He's the anti bicep kisser :lol:

 

[hawksurething]

I hate throws over the middle that get tipped for ints!

One of the problems with Wilson being short in comparison to many other NFL quarterbacks is that the receivers don't always get to see much of his arm movement when he's passing to them over the middle. Sometimes the first clue they have that the ball is coming their way is seeing the ball coming their way. That gives them less time to react to the pass than if they saw the arm movement, and hence increases the likelihood of them muffing the catch and potentially causing an interception.

Yep. Just another reason to get big WRs so they can see him throwing it

 

[hawksurething]

Anyone who doesn't realize that Russ is one of the best in football is plain clueless.

As is anyone who doesn't recognise he still has things to work on.

Fortunately the greatest upside to Wilson is that he does work on things. Relentlessly.

Peyton,Rodgers,and Brady still has things to work on. He is still better than them their 1st 3 years. Why do people refuse to acknowledge the fact ? He is more elite passer than them out the gate with a 100.00 passer rate with less talent surrounding him. FACT !

 

[Hawkfan77]

Anyone who doesn't realize that Russ is one of the best in football is plain clueless.

As is anyone who doesn't recognise he still has things to work on.

Fortunately the greatest upside to Wilson is that he does work on things. Relentlessly.

Who said he didn't have things to work on?

 

[hawksurething]

The Seahawks offensive line is good at run blocking but not pass protection. Teddy Bruschi did film analysis of all 32 teams. Offensive lines. The Seahawks rated 32nd in the league in pass protection. They have a hard time controlling the line of scrimmage. This has worked okay since Wilson can scramble and make plays outside the pocket. However, when Wilson was in the pocket in the Super Bowl, he often held the ball too long and missed open receivers. That's part of his game he needs to work on.

You hold the ball when nobody is open.

Look at that dude Baldwin blog about him being open 10 times, then you'll see he was only open 3 times at most.

1. Ref picked revised.
2. Would only have been a 3 yard gain.
3. Was when revised stopped because he saw Wilson throwing the ball deep.

Every NFL players commented that revised shut him down! What looks open to so unaware fans is actually either zone,trail technique,or bait.

Sherman & revised bait then jump the route. Right ? Wilson better hold that ball or its a INT with average WRs. Wish he would have held the ball that last play...but he wants to believe in WRs that deion Sanders says are not good enough. ;(

 

[BirdsCommaAngry]

But is he truly factually elite? If so, is he undoubtedly truly factually elite?

 

[MontanaHawk05]

A good oline must block for 3 to 4 seconds. Not under.

You can't derail my post about our QB with run blocking or pass blocking under the appropriate time keep its factual & on subject. Wilson.

If you want facts, consider that most QBs train to begin their scramble drill in LESS than three seconds. I believe I read somewhere that the number is 2.8 for Rodgers.

 

[acbass]

Anybody that wants to argue about him is someone that only watches ESPN and not the games. They look at stat lines and fantasy football. Russell is elite. He's not the traditional quarterback, but what's wrong with that? He plays the game in a way few else really have. Especially in the modern era. He bucks every traditional notion about the position, and I think that makes a lot of people nervous, so to speak. He has a clutch gene that very few have. Honestly, when the Patriots scored before the last drive I wasn't worried. 2 minutes with the game on the line? Russell has this. Obviously, it didn't quite work out the way I had hoped, but the guy is money 95% of the time. He wins games, and to me, that's elite. I don't give a crap about numbers. Too many are so quick to punish him for being on a good team, and that's unfortunate. We know how good he is. Let them think what they want, and in 15 years when his time comes for Hall of Fame mention, I have no doubt he will get in. His career is going to do nothing but get better.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Dude could win 3 or 4 Super Bowl Titles, and people still will say it's because of everyone BUT him. Screw em, they are all just mad because they couldn't be more wrong about the guy. Or, they are mad because he is not on their favorite team.

 

[Zebulon Dak]

If you call Revis "revised" every time you sound like a schmuck.

 

[Zebulon Dak]

Dude could win 3 or 4 Super Bowl Titles, and people still will say it's because of everyone BUT him. Screw em, they are all just mad because they couldn't be more wrong about the guy. Or, they are mad because he is not on their favorite team.

Wait, are you talking about Wilson or Bevell?

8)