Russell Wilson- Franchise QB- poll

[Anthony!]

Guy posts a 138 passer rating with 3 TDs, 0 INTs and we're debating "franchise" status. Only here...

I wonder if the peeps that complain about RW know how hard it is to find a quality QB.

My belief is that all but a few teams in the NFL would be very glad to take him off our hands. RW is still very young as an NFL starter at the toughest position in sports. For any who wonder if he's a 'franchise QB' all you need to do is look at his record of wins and losses and his impressive statistical superiority since arriving in the league.

Does it mean he's perfect? Absolutely not, and he's still growing as a QB and trying to improve his abilities from within the pocket, when that pocket frequently doesn't exist. He makes many mistakes still but is learning and improving. If you could give him an OLine and few WRs like Romo has he'd be an every game star. Frankly he'd be an every game star if the Hawks OLine was anything close to average.

AMEN, this they are 32nd in pass protection. Back when they were 24th he was getting it done all the time.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Lots of opinions on this board back and fourth about whether or not Russ is a top QB worthy of his contract or is he just average and maybe only a game manager. Well in this poll you say yay or nay- there is no in between. My vote is ABSOLUTELY YES and think that he is a victim of the horrible OL, horrible OC and at this point, he is just shell shocked as most QB's would be. What do you say?

Russell is a game manager, but he's a dynamic athletic game manager.

So I'm fine with Russell making what he makes and playing for the Hawks...............WHEN we give him a top 5 nasty ass defense, decent O-line and top 1-2 run game.

Because we already know we can win SB's with this formula.

 

[Anthony!]

West TX Hawk said it pretty well.;

Right now ? No he's not.

Last year ? Yup he was. It's obvious there are signs of regression and lack of progression in his game. Things he had small issues with before are worse. I think some of it can be blamed on the OL for sure. I think some of it is human nature, he got paid, and is comfortable and enjoying the benefits of his life. Most of us would do the same.

To be elite at anything, which is top 10% in my definition, you had to get better all the time. You don't sit back. You bypass success and move on to crushing the competition and setting precedents/records and new goals. It takes a rare mindset. It's mindset that Wilson used to have. If he can regain it, we're in good shape.

Ahh so under your guidance Rodgers is not elite and has regressed. And 2 years ago when Brady suck for the first 4-6 games he was not elite and regressed. And of course Manning is not Elite. Seems really no one is elite as they have all struggled. As to the posts who mind set thing yeah whatever.

 

[Anthony!]

Lots of opinions on this board back and fourth about whether or not Russ is a top QB worthy of his contract or is he just average and maybe only a game manager. Well in this poll you say yay or nay- there is no in between. My vote is ABSOLUTELY YES and think that he is a victim of the horrible OL, horrible OC and at this point, he is just shell shocked as most QB's would be. What do you say?

Russell is a game manager, but he's a dynamic athletic game manager.

So I'm fine with Russell making what he makes and playing for the Hawks...............WHEN we give him a top 5 nasty ass defense, decent O-line and top 1-2 run game.

Because we already know we can win SB's with this formula.

all Qbs need help. Rodgers was not paying well the past few games, why oline started playing bad, and no run game. A couple of years ago Brady struggled why no Gronk he got gronk back and he played better. NO QB CAN DO IT ALL BY THEMSLEVES. For Wilson he has proven if he gets an oline that is ranked at least 24th and a run game he can and is Elite. This year the oline has been 32nd in pass blocking, and the run game hit and miss. Add to that no adjustments by the OC in play calling or design and there you go. Now can they build on what they did and showed against SF or Will bevel, the oline and run game revert. If they do then Wilson will as well, if the keep it going Wilson will as well. EVERY QB NEEDS HELP. This would be the same for any QB if Rodgers oline reverts back to bad and the run game goes away he will struggle, If Brady lost Gronk he would struggle etc etc and so on for every to QB

 

[Hawks46]

West TX Hawk said it pretty well.;

Right now ? No he's not.

Last year ? Yup he was. It's obvious there are signs of regression and lack of progression in his game. Things he had small issues with before are worse. I think some of it can be blamed on the OL for sure. I think some of it is human nature, he got paid, and is comfortable and enjoying the benefits of his life. Most of us would do the same.

To be elite at anything, which is top 10% in my definition, you had to get better all the time. You don't sit back. You bypass success and move on to crushing the competition and setting precedents/records and new goals. It takes a rare mindset. It's mindset that Wilson used to have. If he can regain it, we're in good shape.

Ahh so under your guidance Rodgers is not elite and has regressed. And 2 years ago when Brady suck for the first 4-6 games he was not elite and regressed. And of course Manning is not Elite. Seems really no one is elite as they have all struggled. As to the posts who mind set thing yeah whatever.

Here's the problem with your analogy: Rodgers, Brady and Manning (I assume you mean Payton Manning, I wouldn't define Eli as "elite" because he's too inconsistent...although he's had a few elite years) is that those QBs have a proven track record, of being "elite", carrying a team and going deep into the playoffs and/or winning a championship. They've done it year after year, and your comparison just goes to show that everyone can have an off year and if things go wrong it can affect the best QBs.

I like what Sgt. Largent said: "Russell is a game manager, but he's a dynamic athletic game manager". That's what he's proven so far, and it's been inconsistent. Wilson showed a steady progression his first few years, but has regressed this year. I personally believe it has to do with situational play calling and our terrible OL. Playing the Devil's Advocate...Wilson probably has the best skill position players he's ever had at his disposal. P. Manning and Brady could shred teams with the skill position players we currently have.

How much of this is on the OC ? How much is on the QB ? it's hard to say, but right NOW, Wilson is not a franchise QB. I'd define this simply: if you need a top 5 running game and historically elite defense to win, you're not a franchise QB. A franchise QB is someone who can consistently put a team on his back, make plays, and win games. Wilson has never won a game in which the opposition has scored 24 points or more. Never. You could theorize some of that is the defense giving up a late lead, but when you HAVE to score points, Wilson loses as a QB.

Here's scary news for you folks: we still have a top 5 defense. We're 2nd in overall defense, tops in pass defense, 5th in rushing defense and 5th in scoring defense. Sure, they look bad at times, but they're also dominating at times. So, if we have to have a historically good defense to carry this team, we don't have a franchise QB.

Now, I look at Cam Newton. He's actually looked worse than Russ for most of his career, and he just broke out this year. He's much less mature and cerebral than Wilson is, and came into the league a year earlier. So, I'm not saying Wilson can't make that next step. I'm not saying he won't be better than a Newton or Brees is right now.

But as of right NOW, when this poll came out, I'd have to vote no.

 

[Cartire]

West TX Hawk said it pretty well.;

Right now ? No he's not.

Last year ? Yup he was. It's obvious there are signs of regression and lack of progression in his game. Things he had small issues with before are worse. I think some of it can be blamed on the OL for sure. I think some of it is human nature, he got paid, and is comfortable and enjoying the benefits of his life. Most of us would do the same.

To be elite at anything, which is top 10% in my definition, you had to get better all the time. You don't sit back. You bypass success and move on to crushing the competition and setting precedents/records and new goals. It takes a rare mindset. It's mindset that Wilson used to have. If he can regain it, we're in good shape.

Ahh so under your guidance Rodgers is not elite and has regressed. And 2 years ago when Brady suck for the first 4-6 games he was not elite and regressed. And of course Manning is not Elite. Seems really no one is elite as they have all struggled. As to the posts who mind set thing yeah whatever.

Here's the problem with your analogy: Rodgers, Brady and Manning (I assume you mean Payton Manning, I wouldn't define Eli as "elite" because he's too inconsistent...although he's had a few elite years) is that those QBs have a proven track record, of being "elite", carrying a team and going deep into the playoffs and/or winning a championship. They've done it year after year, and your comparison just goes to show that everyone can have an off year and if things go wrong it can affect the best QBs.

I didnt even read anymore after this. Sooo....... how is this any different then RW then? 4th year in, and RW didnt earn this track record?

 

[Anthony!]

West TX Hawk said it pretty well.;

Right now ? No he's not.

Last year ? Yup he was. It's obvious there are signs of regression and lack of progression in his game. Things he had small issues with before are worse. I think some of it can be blamed on the OL for sure. I think some of it is human nature, he got paid, and is comfortable and enjoying the benefits of his life. Most of us would do the same.

To be elite at anything, which is top 10% in my definition, you had to get better all the time. You don't sit back. You bypass success and move on to crushing the competition and setting precedents/records and new goals. It takes a rare mindset. It's mindset that Wilson used to have. If he can regain it, we're in good shape.

Ahh so under your guidance Rodgers is not elite and has regressed. And 2 years ago when Brady suck for the first 4-6 games he was not elite and regressed. And of course Manning is not Elite. Seems really no one is elite as they have all struggled. As to the posts who mind set thing yeah whatever.

Here's the problem with your analogy: Rodgers, Brady and Manning (I assume you mean Payton Manning, I wouldn't define Eli as "elite" because he's too inconsistent...although he's had a few elite years) is that those QBs have a proven track record, of being "elite", carrying a team and going deep into the playoffs and/or winning a championship. They've done it year after year, and your comparison just goes to show that everyone can have an off year and if things go wrong it can affect the best QBs.

I like what Sgt. Largent said: "Russell is a game manager, but he's a dynamic athletic game manager". That's what he's proven so far, and it's been inconsistent. Wilson showed a steady progression his first few years, but has regressed this year. I personally believe it has to do with situational play calling and our terrible OL. Playing the Devil's Advocate...Wilson probably has the best skill position players he's ever had at his disposal. P. Manning and Brady could shred teams with the skill position players we currently have.

How much of this is on the OC ? How much is on the QB ? it's hard to say, but right NOW, Wilson is not a franchise QB. I'd define this simply: if you need a top 5 running game and historically elite defense to win, you're not a franchise QB. A franchise QB is someone who can consistently put a team on his back, make plays, and win games. Wilson has never won a game in which the opposition has scored 24 points or more. Never. You could theorize some of that is the defense giving up a late lead, but when you HAVE to score points, Wilson loses as a QB.

Here's scary news for you folks: we still have a top 5 defense. We're 2nd in overall defense, tops in pass defense, 5th in rushing defense and 5th in scoring defense. Sure, they look bad at times, but they're also dominating at times. So, if we have to have a historically good defense to carry this team, we don't have a franchise QB.

Now, I look at Cam Newton. He's actually looked worse than Russ for most of his career, and he just broke out this year. He's much less mature and cerebral than Wilson is, and came into the league a year earlier. So, I'm not saying Wilson can't make that next step. I'm not saying he won't be better than a Newton or Brees is right now.

But as of right NOW, when this poll came out, I'd have to vote no.

So its more about length of time and then anything got it. FYI Brady and manning would not last in this offense with this scheme and this oline so no they would not kill. Point in case he ahs it better in Denver and is sucking right now, and Brady sucked until he got Gronk back a few years ago. Every QB needs help for Wilson he needs a decent oline not top 15 but at least #24 and a run game. Rodgers has shown he needs the same. Brady has shown he needs a decent oline top 25 and at least 1 go to WR/TE or a great defense, I Can go on and on. All QBs need help its just a matter of what help and how much FYI you do not have the best QB rating of any QB in their first 3 years without being consistent. Having some bad games is something all QBs do.

 

[Anthony!]

West TX Hawk said it pretty well.;

Right now ? No he's not.

Last year ? Yup he was. It's obvious there are signs of regression and lack of progression in his game. Things he had small issues with before are worse. I think some of it can be blamed on the OL for sure. I think some of it is human nature, he got paid, and is comfortable and enjoying the benefits of his life. Most of us would do the same.

To be elite at anything, which is top 10% in my definition, you had to get better all the time. You don't sit back. You bypass success and move on to crushing the competition and setting precedents/records and new goals. It takes a rare mindset. It's mindset that Wilson used to have. If he can regain it, we're in good shape.

Ahh so under your guidance Rodgers is not elite and has regressed. And 2 years ago when Brady suck for the first 4-6 games he was not elite and regressed. And of course Manning is not Elite. Seems really no one is elite as they have all struggled. As to the posts who mind set thing yeah whatever.

Here's the problem with your analogy: Rodgers, Brady and Manning (I assume you mean Payton Manning, I wouldn't define Eli as "elite" because he's too inconsistent...although he's had a few elite years) is that those QBs have a proven track record, of being "elite", carrying a team and going deep into the playoffs and/or winning a championship. They've done it year after year, and your comparison just goes to show that everyone can have an off year and if things go wrong it can affect the best QBs.

I didnt even read anymore after this. Sooo....... how is this any different then RW then? 4th year in, and RW didnt earn this track record?

for any other QB it is not, for Wilson it is

 

[IndyHawk]

No Russ Wislon is not a franchise QB.I voted no

 

[Laloosh]

No Russ Wislon is not a franchise QB.I voted no

I'm not sure who Russ Wislon is but you're probably correct about that if we haven't heard of them.

 

[Anthony!]

No Russ Wislon is not a franchise QB.I voted no

I'm not sure who Russ Wislon is but you're probably correct about that if we haven't heard of them.

LOL

 

[nbk35zw]

I voted yes.

I do think Russ is struggling mightily in his personal life, and it is affecting his approach. That said, he is a driven, high character person. I think some of Russell's bravado has rubbed the team wrong (religion), and he is having to find his truth while also "experiencing" life. He is at a crossroads.

BUT... If he can center himself, find his life balance, and refocus... Watch out. The dude has a cannon, huge hands, is brilliant, loves the game, and... When focused, is a rare QB.

I am proud to root and jeer my favorite team's QB.

 

[Hawkpower]

I voted yes.

I do think Russ is struggling mightily in his personal life, and it is affecting his approach. That said, he is a driven, high character person. I think some of Russell's bravado has rubbed the team wrong (religion), and he is having to find his truth while also "experiencing" life. He is at a crossroads.

BUT... If he can center himself, find his life balance, and refocus... Watch out. The dude has a cannon, huge hands, is brilliant, loves the game, and... When focused, is a rare QB.

I am proud to root and jeer my favorite team's QB.

Maybe I am misreading your point, but I wouldnt mind "struggling" with my personal life with a new mansion and a hot new celebrity girlfriend.

He is handling his public personal life persona in a clumsy way, especially after the brand of Russ that he sold in his first few years, but maybe that is more what you meant.

 

[evergreen]

The '12-'14 Wilson was without a doubt a franchise qb. He so often simply willed this team to victory with his legs, clutch deep throws, improvisation and guts. He was dedicated to improving his craft and would usually rise on the biggest stages. I think players believed in his unique ability.

The '15 Wilson does not exhibit those same traits. His regression has become appalling and many have questioned his focus. With a better OL he's surely to improve, but I wonder how many of his teammates completely trust him now. He's been far from clutch, his pre-snap reads have been questionable, his accuracy is off on deep passes and he hangs on to the ball longer than rookie quarterbacks. And I have no idea what's going on in his head. Frankly, that Mexico modeling exhibition or whatever the hell it was is just embarrassing.

Well said, especially the '12-'14 vs. now. Sunday looked vintage, the rest was just a few moments then bad Wilson...

A qb worthy of an organization devoting years and years to will be able to compartmentalize the devotion to his craft, his endorsements and off the field branding, his personal life, as well as the mindset to handle criticism, external pressures and show steady and improved growth on the field as well as a leader-the players must simply trust him. It's up to Wilson now.

 

[SonicHawk]

This is not even a discussion.

Yes.

 

[greenblue_eye's2]

RW is the epitome of what a Franchise QB is! Living here in the Bay Area I had the opportunity to see some legendary quarterbacks. Russell has all of the qualities of a Joe Montana, & Steve Young, and he will take us to another Super Bowl and win it all once again. Russell is just in dire need of a better O-Line, and clutch WR's, don't lose your faith in this guy, he is something special! :th2thumbs:

 

[HawkerD]

If Tom Brady is the measuring stick then no; other wise yes

 

[jake206]

Can he be a Franchise QB like Brees, Brady...etc. Yes. Is he a Franchise QB, now after being paid? No...he hasn't shown the same consistency and drive. So we'll see how he is in the next year or two if he's worth the money.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

He could win the next 2 Super Bowl's and people would still bag on the guy.

 

[Ozzy]

This is not even a discussion.

Yes.

Assume you're new, welcome to the board.