Seahawks Haven't Recovered From "The Play"

[AROS]

Good stuff FidelisHawk...Here's some of my inputs...(in italics)

Bevell called “The Play”,
I agree, with a caveat, Pete knew it and okayed it.

I would agree with that. I too think Carroll okayed it and chose to fall on the sword when (sh)it hit the fan and the entire planet wanted an answer for what appeared to be a strange, high risk call.

“The Play” was a bad call,
I disagree, it’s been debated over and over and doing so again would take more time than this post needs. Let me just say, I believe, it was a good call with the worst possible outcome.

I would also agree. I wasn't one of the masses thinking it was a terrible call. It was in fact a great call that was executed terribly. Russell, Kearse and Lockette all played their roles in its ultimate failure. Butler knew the play was coming and he made the play of his career there.

“The Play” was such a bad call and handled so poorly, Bevell should’ve been fired.
I disagree, again I believe, it was a good call with the worst possible outcome. Could it have been handled differently sure, should he have been fired because of it, no. (now is he a subpar OC and should be fired, I’m neutral and have reasons that are both for and against, maybe another day).

Some would have been fired from that play call alone but with Carroll's loyalty firmly in hand that was never going to be a realistic outcome. Like stated above, the play call itself wasn't bad, the execution was.

“The Play” was called for nefarious reasons,
I disagree and don’t believe you think so either.

I definitely don't believe that either. Nothing nefarious. Bevell felt since everyone on the planet was expecting a hand off to Lynch, why not throw them a curve ball and do a quick slant to a backup receiver? Who would see THAT coming? Oh wait, don't answer that...

“The Play” split the locker room offense against defense,
I disagree, as I posted earlier if players a worried about a single play that happens two plays ago, two games ago or two years ago then they will never be able to play the game the way they should. That’s the premise I wholeheartedly dismiss and disagree with.

I do believe there has been a very real dichotomy between the offense and defense in recent years but I don't think it's genesis is tied to "The Play". My feeling is that the defense has held a bit of a grudge over the years for having to carry the offense, or for the offense not doing their job by moving the chains consistently and subsequently keeping them off the field and fresh. I've watched a lot of defensive players over the years in interviews and I can read body language pretty darn well and they pretty much admit it without spelling it out verbally.

“The Play” ended any chance for this team to be considered a dynasty,
I disagree, dynasties are determined after the fact, only history and/or popular opinion can, or will, make that determination, but continuing to win will go a long way in helping and I believe as long as Russell can play, this team can win.

It certainly did end any talk of a dynasty at that time. Had we won, we would have been the first NFL team in years to win back-to-back championships and no doubt the "D" word would have been part of the national conversation moving forward. We will have to win another Super Bowl and then win another within a year or two for that word to re-enter the conversation again. Of course, this would go for any team able to accomplish that. It's rare and why you never hear of dynasties these days where the QB isn't named Brady nor the coach named Belichick.

“The Play” will forever define the Carroll era,
I disagree, two lucky catches that cost two Super Bowls certainly didn’t define the Belichick era, winning games, getting there, and winning did. I believe Pete and this team have more wins ahead them contrary to the, seemingly, current popular opinion.

The media will always want to remind everyone of "The Play". Unfortunately, anytime the Seattle Seahawks meet with success or play in big games, that footage will likely be shown for the rest of our lives and our children's lives. But I agree that it won't ultimately be PC's "Story" here in Seattle. He's already done what no other Seahawks coach has been able to do and that's win a Super Bowl. Nothing can ever alter that narrative. Ever.

“The Play” was this team’s high water mark and their window is rapidly closing,
I disagree, call me an optimist if you must, but great teams have similar things in common. A good owner, check. A good front office, check. A good coach, check. A good quarterback, check.

You are right, the Seahawks still have a lot of key ingredients to sustain success over the long term. My comments on the window being all but closed is in reference to this particular roster, right now. The LOB is getting up there in age. It's rare for all 3 of them to be on the field for more than a 3 or 4 game stretch. So when I refer to the window almost closed, I am talking about the LOB Era, not the Seattle Seahawks moving forward and what they may look like in 2, 3 years from now. As long as Paul Allen is our owner and Russell Wilson is our Quarterback, I will always think we will be a competitive team in this league.

“The Play” will always be a dark cloud over everything they do from here on out,
I not only disagree, I’d hope nobody would ever pin their fandom on such a petty concept, but if you/they want to, okay, I choose to walk in the sunshine, after all, I’m an optimist.

It will only be a dark cloud as long as the team's collective subconscious allows it to be. Nothing will ever change the outcome of that game and the "what if's" of that game, but winning cures all in this league. I never was an Al Davis fan growing up but one thing he was always dead on was, "Just win baby."

 

[Hawker8989]

They've never looked like the same Legion of Boom since that game. Very seldomly do you see thrm dpminste the eay they once did. But that msy be because pf age, injuties, and poor drafting.

They may beat the Rams and win the division. But this team isn't winning in Philly and Minny to get to the SB.

 

[FidelisHawk]

Fidelishawk, you certainly detailed in specifics many of the thoughts I've had on The Play with your excellent posts in this thread. I enjoyed reading your breakdown.

It's been documented over and over again that the Hawks have recovered from a Super Bowl defeat better than any team in modern history. And that's a testament to both the players and the coaching staff.

It's losing organizations like the Browns that would be fractured by a loss like that and would respond by making petty personnel moves. That's exactly what losers do.

Pete and John understand the bigger picture and have made this the golden era in franchise history.

Well thank you Sioux, while my opinions may not quite toe the party line as closely as your posts do, generally I choose to lean much closer to your ideal than the other extreme.

What I find amusing in the world of internet forums no matter how articulately you present your ideas, opinions, thoughts or arguments in the end we’re just on an internet forum and our ideas, opinions, thoughts or arguments mean nothing to anyone but ourselves. Thought for the day

 

[FidelisHawk]

Aros your response sounds more, dare I say, hopeful, cheerful? I’d like to think our little debate brought back the optimist I know is always in you.

You were sounding a little down in your OP, hope I helped and thanks for the discourse

 

[IndyHawk]

It's nice to see a good post with quality replys.
No need for me to say too much as FidelisHawk's views mirror most of mine.
People seem to forget in that SB we had 3 all-pros playing seriously hurt and another out before half.
I feel we get the worst breaks injury wise,all you have to do is look at every season since that game.
Bennett has been playing all year with that painful foot injury,he gets my respect for that.


FidelisHawk:I hope we can see more of you going foward.. :irishdrinkers:

 

[adeltaY]

It's nice to see a good post with quality replys.
No need for me to say too much as FidelisHawk's views mirror most of mine.
People seem to forget in that SB we had 3 all-pros playing seriously hurt and another out before half.
I feel we get the worst breaks injury wise,all you have to do is look at every season since that game.
Bennett has been playing all year with that painful foot injury,he gets my respect for that.


FidelisHawk:I hope we can see more of you going foward.. :irishdrinkers:

The Chargers and Ravens of the past couple of years might have something to say about that.

 

[hawkfannj]

You fire Bevell after that game in the off-season! That was the right call IMHO someone has to fall on that sword for the belief system to stay in place . By not firing the OC it caused a stench to linger far longer than it should have ! Accountability is what was lost if it’s for the players it should have been for the coaches as well . That’s my 2 cents worth

 

[FidelisHawk]

You fire Bevell after that game in the off-season! That was the right call IMHO someone has to fall on that sword for the belief system to stay in place . By not firing the OC it caused a stench to linger far longer than it should have ! Accountability is what was lost if it’s for the players it should have been for the coaches as well . That’s my 2 cents worth

I think your opinion is one that a lot of other fans have as well.

I only suggest the stench, you speak of, has lingered far too long with fans, and is more momentous to them, than it is for the coaches or players.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Neither OP nor any NFL commentator have the ability to reach into players' minds and know what's getting to them.

Nor does making the playoffs every year since "The Play" constitute "not recovering". In fact, it constitutes a defiance of parity rarely seen in the NFL.

For flippin' sake, Todd, you can't win the Super Bowl every year.

 

[West TX Hawk]

It's been documented over and over again that the Hawks have recovered from a Super Bowl defeat better than any team in modern history. And that's a testament to both the players and the coaching staff.
.

Yeah the Broncos winning the SB 2 years after losing it was clearly not as good as this Seahawk decline.

And to Aros, you're exactly right. This team has sadly never been quite the same since the play. Lack of accountability, Carroll's refusal to evolve, adapt and bring in new blood with coaches to infuse a spark has proven detrimental. Carroll still believes in basic schemes and winning by simply having more talent. It doesn't work anymore.

Even when this team was healthy earlier in the year, they weren't playing great and it's been a gradual but noticeable decline the past 3 years. Still competitive, but not a contender. I don't see much changing next year because Carroll never does change anything.

 

[TwistedHusky]

If you have a system, by which you preach earning your spot and competing for your right to be there - you are defining the very validation of the right to hold the job based on the ability to produce.

If then, you fail to produce, then demanding that accountability of others is going to be difficult.

When Bevell or Cable says "Do Your Job!", the player can rightfully in their head circle back to the reality that both coaches are substandard producers and have little right to demand production when they repeatedly don't produce themselves.

Now you can argue that they are the boss, etc, but human nature says when someone demands something of another they they don't follow the same rule on, there is friction/resentment/passive-aggressive pseudo production.

"Why should I kill myself for this *sshole?" becomes the internal voice you have to shake off.

If you preach meritocracy and then you seem to have different rules for the ones that preach? That is going to create problems. And it did.

 

[Hawker8989]

This team is atrocious from top to bottom. Time to get rid of some coaches & players. Enough is enough!!

 

[Shanegotyou11]

I believe that the decline started with the loss to NE. Trust in coaches was destroyed but the talent was still there. That's why playoffs still happened. However, now injuries are mounting and players aren't buying in anymore.

So yes they never got over the play IMO.

 

[rossob]

It's been documented over and over again that the Hawks have recovered from a Super Bowl defeat better than any team in modern history. And that's a testament to both the players and the coaching staff.
.

Yeah the Broncos winning the SB 2 years after losing it was clearly not as good as this Seahawk decline.

And to Aros, you're exactly right. This team has sadly never been quite the same since the play. Lack of accountability, Carroll's refusal to evolve, adapt and bring in new blood with coaches to infuse a spark has proven detrimental. Carroll still believes in basic schemes and winning by simply having more talent. It doesn't work anymore.

Even when this team was healthy earlier in the year, they weren't playing great and it's been a gradual but noticeable decline the past 3 years. Still competitive, but not a contender. I don't see much changing next year because Carroll never does change anything.

And the Broncos lost 7 games in a row, being worse than they have been in a really long time, just 2 years after their SB win. It is hard to win the Superbowl and stay one of the best teams...