Popeyejones":3icjvw28 said:
As far as the all the behavioral stuff, infighting, backbiting, sideline fistfights, non-team behavior that plagued the Seahawks for years, I've been nothing if not consistent in saying I thought that was a failure of leadership, and Pete Carroll being a good coach who trends way too far to an anything-goes style player's coach. He's the anti-Belichick, and as I've said many times before that's the best thing in the world when things are going well, but when it falls apart, it falls apart quickly.
What I mean by that, and what I've been 100% consistent about for years now, is that I think all of the craziness and outbursts and etc. for Hawks players like Sherman, Thomas, Tate, Lynch, Clark, Bennett, etc. was about 95% on Pete Carrol's leadership failures.
And I think we're seeing the evidence of that.
Why is it that since leaving the Hawks Tate hasn't had any of these problems anymore? Why hasn't Sherman had any of these problems? Why was Lynch suddenly a model player and ultimate team guy on the Raiders too? Why isn't Frank Clark punching teammates on the Chiefs? Really the only thing you can point to is Michael Bennett getting traded to the Cowboys, but even that was pretty mundane and rather than going for blood he wrote it off as a "philosophical disagreement."
To be clear, I AM NOT EXPECTING YOU TO AGREE WITH ME. You guys have been disagreeing with me about this for YEARS now.
What you have to acknowledge however, is that your claim that I'm suddenly defending Sherman out of the blue because he's on the 49ers is a complete and total load of crap. :lol:
I can respect everything you said, and explain (away?) most of it. I wont' really try that hard, and don't care if I don't "convert" you to appreciating Pete Carroll's LEADERSHIP, but maybe it will supply some data points to consider.
I'd state it as, during the last 5 years, Pete Carroll has gotten much better at identifying which guys are team-first guys who will buy in and not undermine his program, and has done a much better job of unloading distractions and malcontents who undermine the culture and program he has worked to create. Major error in the Malik McDowell draft situation, but limited damage to the team. A leader can only lead those who are willing to be led.
You did miss one major piece in your list: PERCY HARVIN. Harvin, IMO, checks all the boxes for a Borderline Personality Disordered (BPD) sociopath. I've written quite a bit about it on .NET in the past. You have to have been around one of these people in your own life to truly appreciate the crazy-making and division they bring into whatever setting they are part of. Sherman, also IMO, presents as a Narcissistic Personality Disordered individual, but with milder sociopathy than Harvin, and also Sherman is much *smarter* than Harvin; Sherman is just a very smart guy period. One thing about BPDs and NPDs, is that when they go from one setting where they have worn out their welcome, they will be on their *best behavior* in their new setting for a while, to try to win people over and set others up so they can sell their version that anything bad that happened previously was "everyone else's fault".
Golden Tate, Percy Harvin punching him: That is a classic BPD "toddler rage" episode that Harvin had. 100% on Harvin. It's a sight to see in an adult. Harvin also did a similar thing to his position coach in college. I've experienced it multiple times from BPDs in my personal life. The only part that's on Pete Carroll is that he didn't understand BPD and though Harvin was just another misunderstood young man who Father Flanagan Carroll could turn into a model citizen. I haven't heard rumors about Tate being intimate with the Lions QB's Matthew Stafford's wife, so there's that too. Maybe the Lions GM assigned 2 PI's to tail Stafford's wife to nip that in the bud, like John Lynch should have. ;-)
Frank Clark, punching Germain Ifedi: Good for him. Ifedi undoubtedly deserved it, probably pulled some cheap shot injury risk move on Clark. Clark is a 100% hard worker, solid teammate, I loved him as a Seahawk, root for him as a Chief. Clark did face consequences for the punching incident. Carroll handled this just fine.
Sherman: Sherman did his NPD routine in Seattle, but backed it up with his play. Eventually it just got old in Seattle, and Carroll got tired of the undermining. Sherman is smart and cares about his legacy and has a core of goodness to him. Moving to a new group, he is and will be on his best behavior. I expect him to play out his career with the Niners and be a good player, model citizen and team leader like he's been so far. By now Sherman cares much more about his legacy than about showing up coaches, and he sees the opportunity in SF to be in the limelight at crunch time with the world watching. What more could an NPD want?
Earl Thomas... super hard worker, puts in the film study, but honestly, has emotional control issues and his aero-aviary conduct toward everything Seahawks (IMO) before leaving was truly douche. He's said some dumb things in Baltimore too. He's playing well in Baltimore. Passionate, emotional guy; shows in his preparation and play, but comes out in ill-advised behavior and words at awkward times. Again, a credit to Carroll's leadership to get some great years out of him.
Lynch... well, that's just Marshawn, and we got some really good years out of him. I'd put that in the category of a *credit* to Carroll's leadership, to get those years out of him. And was Lynch really a "model player and ultimate team guy" on the Raiders? I just saw him as a washed-up version of himself, happy to be back in Oakland, and, during the 2017 season, "On September 14, Lynch was fined $12,000 for doing an obscene gesture", and " in Week Seven, Lynch was ejected for running onto the field and shoving an official". "In Week 15, Lynch confronted officials about Derek Carr not scoring while a fumble and touchback occurred; on December 21, Lynch was fined $24,309". Sounds like Marshawn was just being Marshawn in Oakland too; nothing to do with Pete Carroll's leadership at that point.
Michael Bennett... Bennett is who he is, a great player when healthy, and an outspoken drama queen at times to go along with it. Carroll chose to move on from Bennett. Bennett lasted one season with the Eagles. Bennett was suspended by the Patriots for "conduct detrimental to the team", and then immediately traded to Dallas. Bennett is an agitator loose cannon. Carroll played the hand he was dealt, and when Bennett's benefits no longer exceeded costs, unloaded him. Doug Pederson apparently agreed, and Bill Belichick clearly agreed. Jerry Jones... well, drama queens apparently attract each other.
Josh Gordon seems to be working out well so far in Seattle; we shall see.
So, the last two years, the Seahawks have exceeded preseaon expectations. Personally, I attribute that to Pete Carroll's LEADERSHIP and the culture and environment he's created in Seattle. The last few years, Pete has decided to get rid of, or not bring back guys who weren't team-first guys and weren't on board with his program.
