The end is nigh...

[Siouxhawk]

The problem is that we are playing the 49ers this week

So we score a bunch of points on a horrible team and people will say - see it is all fixed and ignore that we are losing to elite teams and beating crap

This is typical of the rotting culture of some of this fanbase -- actually describing a win as a negative attribute.

The definition of a troll is taking something someone says and twisting it around and putting words in their mouth

Did I say it was bad that we win?

Of course I want the win. What I am saying and which would be understood by most objective observers is that a good offensive performance against a bad team mainly serves to mask our problems. That is very different from a win in itself being a negative attribute. If we can kickstart the offense and keep it going against better defensive teams great, but the Rams and Jacksonville is going to crush this "offense".

Was listening on the radio today and they discussed playing Watson over Savage for Houston. Talked about how they can move Watson around and how he can compensate for a bad O-line. Hopefully Bevell was listening

First of all, I don't believe any NFL games are pushovers and each win should be celebrated accordingly because they are precious.

So saying a win over the Niners masks perceived flaws is something I don't buy because obviously some of those flaws would be corrected in ascertaining the "W."

And your point about a win being able to kickstart the offense dovetails with what I said earlier. And history supports it. We have been in this position before and been able to rectify the problems and go on to have a great season. And making the playoffs is a "great season." This is off the subject stated to you, but once you get into the playoffs, it's a brand new season and anything can happen. We've made the Super Bowl twice in the last 4 years, so obviously the parties in charge know what they're doing.

 

[mikeak]

2012: #17
2013: #18
2014: #9
2015: #4
2016: #12

These are the offensive rankings for total offense for the Hawks since 2012, and IMO we would have again been a top 10 offense last year if not for Russell getting hurt.

I believe you are looking at total yards which is influenced by many factors not telling the full story.

If you look at something like Drive Success Rate which measures the percentage of series that gets a first down or a touchdown then we were ranked 21st last year.

For a team that is all about ball control and moving the chains and tiring out the opponent and not going hurry-up we were ranked 21st in getting a 1st down or a touchdown. Think about it. Our whole philosophy is focused on something that we rank 21 out of 32 teams for...........

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ ... atsoff2016

Time of possession per drive -- 2.39 minutes ranked 22nd!!!!

Plays per drive - 22nd

So if we played ball control football and it was boring but efficient - fine but we are completely failing to run the offense the way we claim that we want to run it. We are not getting any of the results out that we have built this whole team on. So then maybe we need to figure out if we should play differently.......

 

[Sgt. Largent]

They've figured it out for the past 5 years. One season opener doesn't equate to that.

They didn't figure crap out last season. What season were you watching?.

10-6 with a broken Russell for the entire season, and making it all the way to the divisional round of the playoffs.........I'd say we figured it out pretty well.

Especially considering the defense was busy yelling at coordinators and giving up leads with no Earl for half the year.

I get that our offense stunk Sunday, we're all frustrated cause we expected more.

But the end is nigh? After ONE game against probably the best team besides us in the entire NFC, at their house at full strength?

O-line has me bummed out, but I was encouraged from what I saw from every other aspect of the team. No reason we can't go 12-4 and compete for HFA if we stay healthy.

 

[mikeak]

So saying a win over the Niners masks perceived flaws is something I don't buy because obviously some of those flaws would be corrected in ascertaining the "W."
.

AGAIN - I didn't say this

I said a good offensive performance (which does not equal a win or a loss) masks perceived flaws

I said the same before GB - I don't actually care as much about the W / L - I care how we play. I remain consistent. The Win or Loss is not always indicative of if a team is moving in the right direction. How they play together is what tells that story.

If you watched Sunday's game and think the offense has moved forward from last season then we watch football completely differently

 

[Sgt. Largent]

So if we played ball control football and it was boring but efficient - fine but we are completely failing to run the offense the way we claim that we want to run it. We are not getting any of the results out that we have built this whole team on. So then maybe we need to figure out if we should play differently.......

And you think our drop to #22 in this stat was a coordinator issue last year, and not because Russell was operating at 50-70% the entire year.........and our ENTIRE offensive scheme is based off of him being mobile?

I don't absolve any coordinator, player or HC when we fail, everyone's up for criticism. But this constant beating of the drum for Bevell and Cable's head when we lose got old about three years ago. It's a group effort my friend, it's a group effort.

New coordinators wasn't going to mend Russell to 100% or fix another year of the worst O-line in the league cause our FO can't figure out how to draft and acquire FA lineman.

 

[FlyingGreg]

They've figured it out for the past 5 years. One season opener doesn't equate to that.

They didn't figure crap out last season. What season were you watching?.

10-6 with a broken Russell for the entire season, and making it all the way to the divisional round of the playoffs.........I'd say we figured it out pretty well.

Especially considering the defense was busy yelling at coordinators and giving up leads with no Earl for half the year.

I get that our offense stunk Sunday, we're all frustrated cause we expected more.

But the end is nigh? After ONE game against probably the best team besides us in the entire NFC, at their house at full strength?

O-line has me bummed out, but I was encouraged from what I saw from every other aspect of the team. No reason we can't go 12-4 and compete for HFA if we stay healthy.

You just validated my question. Getting our doors blown off in consecutive playoff appearances is "figuring it out" for you. It isn't for me.

You glossed over the metrics I provided. 8.1 ppg in 6 of 16 games. Unbelievable inept, excuses notwithstanding.

I am not at all upset we lost in Green Bay. It is arguably the hardest place in the league to win, against one of the NFL's all-time great passers. I am upset that the SAME ugly trend of a spinning-wheels offense and a line that can't block to save their lives is still prevalent. And that wasn't an NFL elite defense we played; they are ok, but every other team that plays the Packers moves the ball and scores points on them.

By the way, the pick-6 and the Graham mugging non-call absolutely change the dimension of that game and we could have had a great shot to win. I get that. But again, we had some chances. All drives stalled and we settled for field goals. And Russ HAS to hit that throw to Lockett. HAS TO. He is a franchise quarterback in his 6th NFL season and Lock was wide open. That worries me, because he did that a lot last season. Again, I don't blame him exclusively - I honestly have no idea how he gets ready to play week in and week out knowing he is going to have defenders in his face mask .5 seconds after every snap.

Can you imagine what is going to happen when we play some of the D lines we have looming on our schedule?

Looking closely at the deficiencies, many of them are not easily fixable. That's the concern.

 

[mikeak]

So if we played ball control football and it was boring but efficient - fine but we are completely failing to run the offense the way we claim that we want to run it. We are not getting any of the results out that we have built this whole team on. So then maybe we need to figure out if we should play differently.......

And you think our drop to #22 in this stat was a coordinator issue last year, and not because Russell was operating at 50-70% the entire year.........and our ENTIRE offensive scheme is based off of him being mobile?

I don't absolve any coordinator, player or HC when we fail, everyone's up for criticism. But this constant beating of the drum for Bevell and Cable's head when we lose got old about three years ago. It's a group effort my friend, it's a group effort.

New coordinators wasn't going to mend Russell to 100% or fix another year of the worst O-line in the league cause our FO can't figure out how to draft and acquire FA lineman.

You are right - the OP premise is shakeup of the offense and I agree this is a group issue

I do continue to believe that while our O-line is horrible we are continuously failing to adjust to make them look slightly better. We are simply not doing the things you should do when you have a bad o-line. If that is Bevell or PC - I don't know, but at the end of the day PC is responsible

Sure RW not being mobile was part of the picture last year, but again watch that first game against GB and we sure hadn't changed anything....... he really has two big runs and they don't look scripted and at least one happened during a hurry-up that we have been clearly told is not how we will play football

 

[Siouxhawk]

So saying a win over the Niners masks perceived flaws is something I don't buy because obviously some of those flaws would be corrected in ascertaining the "W."
.

AGAIN - I didn't say this

I said a good offensive performance (which does not equal a win or a loss) masks perceived flaws

I said the same before GB - I don't actually care as much about the W / L - I care how we play. I remain consistent. The Win or Loss is not always indicative of if a team is moving in the right direction. How they play together is what tells that story.

If you watched Sunday's game and think the offense has moved forward from last season then we watch football completely differently

Of course I'm not happy with Sunday's performance, although there were definitely some positive things being done too, even on offense. I guess my grounds are that it's not time to panic like many are. We have the ingenuity and talent to correct things as we have in the past. I just look at the big picture. Figured we'd lose 4 on the year and the Packers game is likely one of the toughest scenarios we'll be in during the regular season. Hopefully -- and I'm optimistic -- our offensive line generates some cohesiveness and consistency against the Niners to get a head of steam going and we parlay that into what you're looking for and that's a high level of play week in and week out.

 

[StoneCold]

Bevell isn't the one generating the low-scoring, run-first, hope-for-a-big-play-at-the-end-when-everyone-is-gassed mentality. That's Pete. It's always been Pete. It's been his attitude throughout his NFL career. In college he could run up the score because he rocked at recruiting, but here, he's been conservative and run-first.

I could tell right away vs the Packers, once I saw Wilson holding onto the ball looking for deep shots, that Pete was once again giving in to his instincts and going for the chunk play. Same as in Tampa '16. We'd been doing great, beat the Patriots, beat the Eagles, nobody was griping about the OL because Pete was running the quick-play scheme that masked their deficiencies. Then, in Tampa, Pete gave in again. Went back to lusting for the chunk play. And WITHIN ONE QUARTER vs Tampa, our offense was once again a disaster.

It was one of the most mind-boggling decisions of Pete's career last Tampa game, especially given the fact that they'd lost Britt to injury (or perhaps that's why they did it). Pete knows Wilson can win with the quick passing scheme, but he refuses to stick to it because he wants to be run-first. I'm getting to the point where I'm willing to say that it's simply his pride, and it's hurting the team.

Starting the GB game with 3 passes was an odd choice and I agree with much of what you say here. Not certain Pete's looking for chunk plays, but there were plenty of times last Sunday when RW escaped pressure and appeared to have no one to throw to. Was that RW's fault, Bevell's, Pete's or some combo? I don't know. Instead of a coaching change I'd like to see the coaches change what they do. I hope they adjust and go with a quick passing game in combo with the run game.

 

[NFSeahawks]

Pete will never change because of what happened in SB 49, he should have run the ball which is his mantra and he didn't.

It won't matter what happens or whats best for the team, he won't let his pride be hurt like that again.

BTW, you can have an uptempo offense and still have a good amount of run plays.

 

[mrt144]

It was one of the most mind-boggling decisions of Pete's career last Tampa game, especially given the fact that they'd lost Britt to injury (or perhaps that's why they did it). Pete knows Wilson can win with the quick passing scheme, but he refuses to stick to it because he wants to be run-first. I'm getting to the point where I'm willing to say that it's simply his pride, and it's hurting the team.

This is everything, right here. He wants to win his way.

 

[mikeak]

Of course I'm not happy with Sunday's performance, .

So we agree

I guess my grounds are that it's not time to panic like many are. We have the ingenuity and talent to correct things as we have in the past. I just look at the big picture. Figured we'd lose 4 on the year and the Packers game is likely one of the toughest scenarios we'll be in during the regular season. Hopefully -- and I'm optimistic -- our offensive line generates some cohesiveness and consistency against the Niners to get a head of steam going and we parlay that into what you're looking for and that's a high level of play week in and week out.

Fair enough. In speaking for me (but I guess for others) the reason for the "panic" is simply because we feel that we have seen the picture before. The relatively good results is keeping the panic at bay but our offense has not clicked for quite some time. It is then frustrating to see the same thing over and over again.

If they changed things up and it didn't work then I would get it. If RW was rolling out and got hammered then oops tried that bad idea, if we were using short quick passing game and it didn't work -darn (it did work last year at times), if we used some traditional screen passes and it didn't work then ok good try

Instead we just keep doing the same thing.....

Optimism for me is different - it means hoping that they change their ways. No matter who "they" are

 

[pittpnthrs]

Its not a knee jerk reaction when its being going on for a few years now. Like somebody else said, I didnt even expect to win Sunday, but I expected a lot more from the offense than what I saw. It was a pathetic effort against a just alright defense. Somebody else was correct in saying that beating crummy teams and feeling better about ourselves really isnt fixing the issues. Some want to blame last seasons problems on RW's injuries, but I didnt see much difference in our play Sunday. And to be brutally honest, dare I say, even when Russ ran, he still looked slow to me. I dont put all the blame on Bevell as I think he's a pawn to Pete, but its pretty obvious that Pete's offensive philosophy is stale and doesnt work with our personnel. Thats a huge problem. I'm one of those people that dont like the two and out in the playoffs. Something needs done. Lets face it, the Hawks need HFA in order to go anywhere in the playoffs (sorry but its true). In order to achieve that goal, we cant afford to have a repeat of last season in which we have 4 or so games without a TD and i'm afraid thats where we're headed.

 

[chris98251]

The problem is that we are playing the 49ers this week

So we score a bunch of points on a horrible team and people will say - see it is all fixed and ignore that we are losing to elite teams and beating crap

This is typical of the rotting culture of some of this fanbase -- actually describing a win as a negative attribute.

You can beat up a ten year old and say you won a fight but would anyone recognize your win as a real accomplishment?

 

[SoulfishHawk]

It's not how you start, it's how you finish. I would think Hawks fans would know this by now

 

[Chapow]

We wasted a once in a generation defense.

:34853_doh: C'mon man, we won a Super Bowl with this once in a generation defense.

 

[mrt144]

It's not how you start, it's how you finish. I would think Hawks fans would know this by now

That wears a little thin when starting poorly has tangible negative impact and a strong finish can't compensate for it.

Or your All Time Great safety gets broken leg when you're trying to finish strong, that happens.

 

[mikeak]

It's not how you start, it's how you finish. I would think Hawks fans would know this by now

http://www.nfl.com/scores/2016/REG17

I would like to congratulate last year's champions

Bengals, Titans, Buccaneers, Steelers, Eagles, Jets, Vikings, Colts (Patriots), Chiefs, Cardinals, Broncos, Giants, Seahawks, Falcons and GB

All winners in week 17 during the 2016-2017 season

Congrats!!!
:0190l:

 

[OpHawk]

the noise....

 

[gonzhawk]

Believe me, I've wished this to happen since 2014 but never thought it was a possibility, until now.

I'm tellin you guys, a couple more games that look like yesterday, and it's all anyone is gonna be talking about. The noise will be too much.

If we have too many more games this year like yesterday, Russ will be hurt and the season will be on life support anyways.

Pete is loyal to his guys, sometimes even to a fault.

Wasn't Holmgren's loyalty as he got older one of his greatest weaknesses also? I

Unless something happens to this team, I do see any different team this year than last as far as playoff
caliber-80% on the offense of course-

Our "elite" D will be that much older and injured by the time playoffs come due to carrying a crappy offense again and we get bounced when we can score in the redzone.