The irrelevance of Flynn's starts

[edogg23]

Seriously. It's not just preseason play. It's preseason, practice, etc. Flynn had every chance to put this competition away early on, but he failed to do so.

You downplay preseason games, but fail to acknowledge that while Flynn did put up video game numbers in a single game while playing with a SB-caliber offense, he couldn't impress when playing against vanilla defenses with OUR offense.

Our offense minus most of the starting receivers and RB.
Look, I think the competion was probably close in Petes eyes and Wilson won it with his performance in KC against a team we now know is the worst team in the NFL (Power ranking of 32). No one can say if Flynn would be good or bad in a regular season game for us because its just not possible to know. Not even Pete knows this.

 

[BlueTalon]

Oh good, I was just thinking, "what this place is really missing is a QB thread!" Thanks for stepping up.

 

[BlueTalon]

When will you flynnites get this through your heads he doesnt even hold a GB record any more.

He still holds it. He just no longer holds it by himself.

 

[RichNhansom]

I'm sorry Vol but I refuse to believe that this coaching staff and front office are that stupid. Flynn was leading the race all the way through training camp at and into game two of preseason. Of course that is only if we believe Carrol who said as much. So then he must have either won the competition against the worst defense in the league playing a vanilla offense or their is other info we are not privy to.

As for the quality of the team in GB, I would only ask, what was he suppose to do to convince you? Apparently setting records in one of the most storied franchises wasn't good enough or that even the great Rogers hasn't been able to match his production means apparently nithing also. But apparently Wilsons good half of play against the worst defense in the league that was also missing 75% of it's starters in the secondary means everything?

Not great logic and only makes you look like you are willing to ignore any information provided to support your favorite. I don't have a problem with supporting your Favorite but remember Flynn is a Seahaek also and you don't need to down grade him to support Wilson.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

As for the quality of the team in GB, I would only ask, what was he suppose to do to convince you?

Get transferred to a different team with mediocre pass protection, receiver quality, and offensive scheming; play for more than two games, preferably something like sixteen so that teams can accumulate tape on him and defend him specifically; and still post a 60%+ completion percentage, decent YPA, low turnover rate, and red-zone efficiency.

 

[RichNhansom]

Well he already had mediocre pass protection and Rogers was play calling.

Even so, if that is your criteria then you must think Wilson sucks. I'm not asking whar would convince you he is a franchise caliber QB, I am asking what it would take to even get the level of respect that Wilson has received.

Down grading Flynn for not succeeding on multiple NFL teams while he has had elite success in opportunities afforded, while hoisting Wilson for having a decent half game against the wordt D in the league and has followed that by being ranked the 2nd worst QB in the league is not a real balanced and fair evaluation. It's kind of like giving your kid an A for getting 30% if the questipns correct while failing the kid that aced the test because you don't like him.

Pretty dumb IMO.

 

[sainthawk29]

Statisically speaking there is no QB in the history of the league that threw for 400+ yards and 6 TD's that isn't in Canton or active and heading that way (except for Flynn)

So I wouldn't call those starts irrelevant.

He showed what he could do. But RW at this moment is better, or so the coaching staff believes.

And i for one support their choice either way.

 

[volsunghawk]

I'm sorry Vol but I refuse to believe that this coaching staff and front office are that stupid. Flynn was leading the race all the way through training camp at and into game two of preseason. Of course that is only if we believe Carrol who said as much. So then he must have either won the competition against the worst defense in the league playing a vanilla offense or their is other info we are not privy to.

I don't believe that this coaching staff and front office are stupid, either. That's why I trust that they made the decision based on more than just one game, whether that game was Flynn's against Detroit when he was a Packer or Wilson's in the preseason against KC. And I absolutely guarantee that there's other info that none of us are privy to.

As for the quality of the team in GB, I would only ask, what was he suppose to do to convince you? Apparently setting records in one of the most storied franchises wasn't good enough or that even the great Rogers hasn't been able to match his production means apparently nithing also. But apparently Wilsons good half of play against the worst defense in the league that was also missing 75% of it's starters in the secondary means everything?

Records mean jack. Seriously, what Flynn did in ONE game means exactly nothing to me. Stats without context are useless. I'm far, far more interested in the fundamentals and the process - not the numbers. Think about it. Lynch's Beastquake run was a 67-yard TD run. TD runs of that distance aren't super rare. What made that run special is how many tackles Lynch himself broke. Is that 67-yard run equal in quality to, say, a Chris Johnson 67-yard TD run where his line opens a gaping hole for him and he only has to outrace a safety? Because your "OMG stats!" argument tells me you think they are. I don't. Oh, and saying Rodgers "hasn't been able to match" the production illustrates the ridiculousness of stats without context. And Green Bay understands that, too. If they had your mentality, they'd have made Flynn their starter right away since, you know, Rodgers can't match him.

Not great logic and only makes you look like you are willing to ignore any information provided to support your favorite. I don't have a problem with supporting your Favorite but remember Flynn is a Seahaek also and you don't need to down grade him to support Wilson.

This is a discussion about whether Flynn's starts in GB are relevant. I replied with an on-topic post. If Flynn ever starts a game for us, I will cheer him and hope for him to lead us to victory - no matter if he throws 6 TDs and 480 yards or 1 TD and 125 yards. I would expect that he'd deliver much closer to the latter than the former, but it doesn't matter as long as there's a win.

 

[scutterhawk]

7 nfl starts, 42 college starts for Wilson in 5 years
2 nfl starts, 14 college starts for Flynn in 9 years

Only starting 16 games in 9 years is a HUGE red flag.

For the record, I love having Wilson as our QBOTF, he has the grit, Intelligence, and athleticism to succeed,,,, NOW, with that being said T-Fizzle, Flynn beat out Jackson for the backup role, so why didn't PC take that "HUGE red flag" into account?,,,,Because there IS NO HUGE RED FLAG., and Flynn is now our SEAHAWK backup, so how is that wrong?
You ready for some more math? The ONLY stats that are relevant here, are the ones that include NFL starts ONLY, because Flynn spent several Seasons behind Rodgers, LEARNING, so you can't count the years that he hasn't been on the field.
To answer the OP, Flynns time in GB is why Carroll and Schneider went for getting him here.
I see Pete going with Wilson as a damned good move, hell, he knows the kid has upside running out his whaazoo, and why wouldn't you take advantage of getting him started on the road to the Franchise QB spot, KNOWING that you have a worthy backup for Wilson in Matt Flynn.
I guess I just don't see the neccessity of degrading Flynn, and I truly believe that by doing that, you only slam the other fans who like Flynn, and Wilson.
I believe that some of the Flynn folks are clammoring FOR him, is because some here HAVE gone out of their way to try'n discredit them for believing that Flynn has merit, and Y'all know that you'd rebel in much the same manner if the roles were reversed.

 

[scutterhawk]

Statisically speaking there is no QB in the history of the league that threw for 400+ yards and 6 TD's that isn't in Canton or active and heading that way (except for Flynn)

So I wouldn't call those starts irrelevant.

He showed what he could do. But RW at this moment is better, or so the coaching staff believes.

And i for one support their choice either way.

Yep, :th2thumbs: I guess I just don't get this downgrading or smearing of our Backup QB as a positive.
We have the best of both worlds.

 

[RichNhansom]

Vol I understand much of what you are saying but neither you or I are experts in the fundamentals or the process, but for fun please explain to me what fundamental or process you didn't like and for extra credit compare it to Wilson. I ask this because I don't think you can break down any fundamentals from Flynn's play in any of his games that really would stand out. I think instead you are fishing for reasons to justify your stance.

What I see when I watch the GB or Patriots game is a guy that could go through his reads and process the speed of the game without panicking or losing focus of the pocket or where his receivers are in their development.

I see a guy that throws to his receiver as he is making his break instead of waiting for that receiver to get to the end of his route. That throw is what creates YAC, not luck like some want to think. Hitting your receiver in stride is what allows him to break tackles. It also allows for a cleaner catch as the CB/Safety isn't breaking on the receiver who is standing still.

I see a guy who can see the middle of the field, dink and dunk to draw the defense in and throw a beautiful deep ball when they are out of position.

I see a guy who uses the whole field and spreading the ball out to spread and separate the defense and open up the running game. Not a guy who is dedicated to the right side of the field.

I see a guy that rely's on his pocket and manages and assists his O-linemen by doing so instead of having to constantly shift once they realize the QB has fled the pocket.

There is much more but in comparison the things Wilson still needs to work on (the fundamentals) are exactly where Flynn excels.

A few things Wilson needs to improve on are seeing the whole field, trusting the pocket and sticking with it even if it means more sacks. At least they are not twenty yard loss's. He needs to lead his receivers and throw the ball when the receiver breaks and not after the receiver has completed his route and is standing in place. Reading defenses better is a must and audibling correctly will make a huge difference in how the O-line plays as well as getting the ball out quickly and using the middle of the field.

I like Wilson and think he will get there but those fundamentals you want to use as a crutch are Wilson's weakness right now and Flynn's strength. Please feel free to show me the light because it doesn't sound like we are watching the same game let alone the same players.

 

[Hawks46]

"The fact is they let him go . WHY? Cause he is a backup. When will you flynnites get this through your heads he doesnt even hold a GB record any more"

Wow, it just gets worse and worse. They let him go because he would've cost too much to resign. Because even the biggest idiot in the NFL wasn't going to say that Flynn was better than Aaron Rodgers.

So, let me get this straight.....according to you, since FLynn didn't beat out Rodgers, and GB let him walk in FA instead of cutting Rodgers and signing Flynn, then Flynn is a steaming pile of crap and that proves everything ? Wow. Ok.

And the argument that he doesn't even hold a GB record anymore means absolutely nothing. It actually has less context than your first ridiculous statement. I've read a lot of your posts, and they almost never have nonsensical comparisons in them, so I'm not knocking you personally. There are some people that I skip completely in threads, and you aren't one of them, but you're way off base on this one. Not saying Flynn isn't better, but these arguements don't help your case

The other thing that bothers me is that people keep thinking that because it's from GB, everything about their team is better somehow, at least on offense. GB's WRs are better, true. I would argue that Finley isn't really better than Miller, but he does have better production due to the QB finding the TE with more consistency than TJ and a raw rookie have done with Miller. GB's OL is NOT better than ours.....I would've thought we proved that when they played up here. ANd yes, it is mostly the same OL that FLynn set "the record" behind....against one of the better pass rushing DLines in the game.

 

[ImTheScientist]

7 nfl starts, 42 college starts for Wilson in 5 years
2 nfl starts, 14 college starts for Flynn in 9 years

Only starting 16 games in 9 years is a HUGE red flag.

The ONLY stats that are relevant here, are the ones that include NFL starts ONLY, because Flynn spent several Seasons behind Rodgers, LEARNING, so you can't count the years that he hasn't been on the field.

Read what you wrote and think about it.

 

[bingotown]

Oh goody another QB discussion thread. That gives t-sizzel or (Russell Wilson's mom) as I call her, even more opportunities to express her opinion. As I have briefly looked through some of the other threads I really haven't seen where she has an opinion about much of anything else. But where ever there is a thread about her son she has an opnion. She will still willingly take on any nay sayers of her son, and if you feel that Flynn or any other QB out there is more qualified than you shall feel her wrath. For all of you that disagree with her logic than you are idiots that don't have a clue about football, or your so unintelligent you shouldn't have a say. Kept talking sweetie it exposes your intelligence.

 

[RichNhansom]

And that is why I don't read his/her posts. If you have read one, you have read them all.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

This goes back to one of my earlier points; I will support Russell Wilson, Matt Flynn or even bringing Brett Farve out of retirement. I will support any decision this team makes, and defend it to the day that I die.

Any decision? Were you like this when we were drafting stiffs like McGwire and Stouffer? He's Mark's brother, he must be awesome!

 

[ImTheScientist]

Oh goody another QB discussion thread. That gives t-sizzel or (Russell Wilson's mom) as I call her, even more opportunities to express her opinion. As I have briefly looked through some of the other threads I really haven't seen where she has an opinion about much of anything else. But where ever there is a thread about her son she has an opnion. She will still willingly take on any nay sayers of her son, and if you feel that Flynn or any other QB out there is more qualified than you shall feel her wrath. For all of you that disagree with her logic than you are idiots that don't have a clue about football, or your so unintelligent you shouldn't have a say. Kept talking sweetie it exposes your intelligence.

We are all passionate fans. Nobody is stupid for their opinion.....and there is nothing wrong with debating it over a message board. I have learned some from the pro-Flynn crowd as Im sure some pro-Flynn crowd has learned from pro-Wilson guys. At the end of the day we all want what is best for our favorite team, we just don't agree on how to get there.

 

[scutterhawk]

7 nfl starts, 42 college starts for Wilson in 5 years
2 nfl starts, 14 college starts for Flynn in 9 years

Only starting 16 games in 9 years is a HUGE red flag.

The ONLY stats that are relevant here, are the ones that include NFL starts ONLY, because Flynn spent several Seasons behind Rodgers, LEARNING, so you can't count the years that he hasn't been on the field.

Read what you wrote and think about it.

I thought about it BEFORE I posted, what don't you understand? keep in mind that playing at the college level is not the same as playing at the NFL level, not even close, there is a sharp learning curve, now do I think Wilson will succeed at the next level, yes I do, but it's going to take time.
The HUGE red flag is a bogus phrase, because that's the term you coined, NOT Pete Carroll AND apparently PC and JS hold Flynn in pretty high regards, because they elected to keep him and let Jackson walk.
I'm on board with Wilson as our starter, but I'm just as content with having Flynn in there as our backup if needed,,He's NOT the enemy.
so far, it's -7 starts for Wilson in the NFL THIS Season.
2 starts for Flynn in the NFL.