The New Seahawks Defense.

[Fade]

I think this is being over blown a bit. I suspect we will see standard Nickel & Base more, but this will be a nice wrinkle when they face TE's like Gronk & Olsen.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

Well as long as it doesn't turn in to the 420 defense we are good.....................

Already is, mon. SCHLRRP!

 

[Lords of Scythia]

After 5 days of camp and seeing how they are using BB I believe the Seahawks will use the TCU 425 defence as the BASE defence. Since NFL teams are almost always running 11 or 12 personnel (1 back 1 TE or 1 back 2 TE) this is a way to stop it. Gery Patterson at TCU started running this style of defence since he took over running the defense at TCU in 1998 he turned one of the worst defensive units in college football into one the top 10 scoring defense in the nation. This style of nickel is an attacking style with a hybrid safety/cornerback used as a Rover/Bandit. This is the role that BB and Kelcie McCray are almost perfectly suited for. We can also see something very similar with the Arizona Cardinals 335 defence using WSU Deone Bucannon as a Sam/3rd safety or "Landshark". Watching the Seahawks this camp they have almost never been in the base 43 over/under looks they have almost always been running this 425 with BB or McCray as the Sam/strong side defender. This is different than a regular nickel package that substitutes a linebacker for a cornerback. With the 425 a team needs a very strong safety/linebacker type that can still complete his run gap assignments on 1st/2nd down yet still be able to cover like a safety. A very interesting wrinkle to an already dominant defensive unit.

On the tin foil hat side of things. The Seahawk coaching staff spent a lot of time in Dallas and the TCU campus this offseason looking at the team, talking with coaches. They did get two TCU guys as well.Drafting Joey Hunt and signing Trevone Boykin.


Here is a link to a story done by Grantland describing the 425

http://grantland.com/features/hard-knoc ... patterson/

This is probably an adjustment because of how we're getting screwed by TEs (like everyone else).

 

[sdog1981]

So basically they are using BB and Kam as linebackers and have mccray play the deep zone? Sounds like a good idea was hoping they put BB in the box like a linebacker.

They used 4 guys in this role so far. Kam, Browner, McCray and Shead. They are all in that hybrid role of not quite a CB/SS/OLB type. The potential Sam linebackers are not very impressive. I think the team thought that Kevin Pierre-Louis would be farther along in his role as a Sam OLB.

 

[hawknation2016]

So basically they are using BB and Kam as linebackers and have mccray play the deep zone? Sounds like a good idea was hoping they put BB in the box like a linebacker.

They used 4 guys in this role so far. Kam, Browner, McCray and Shead. They are all in that hybrid role of not quite a CB/SS/OLB type. The potential Sam linebackers are not very impressive. I think the team thought that Kevin Pierre-Louis would be farther along in his role as a Sam OLB.

I don't think KPL has gotten any opportunities at SLB, which goes to your point. He's stuck behind K.J. Wight. I would like to see KPL given at least a shot on the strong side. He's explosive and sheds blocks well.

 

[Ruminator]

Keep Browner young and unbreakable so we have someone to deal with big WRs and TEs for years to come. Or start looking at Browner replacements now if you haven't already. Memo to the team. I need tickets, too.

 

[LudwigsDrummer]

I was perplexed on why JS nor PC addressed SLB in the just completed draft. Is it because they plan to use a 4-3 less?

 

[hawxfreak]

Chris youmade me spit coffee dagnabit

 

[sdog1981]

I was perplexed on why JS nor PC addressed SLB in the just completed draft. Is it because they plan to use a 4-3 less?

That is what it has looked like so far in camp. With this type of defense, you can still get the same looks of a 43 with the added coverage of a nickel

 

[sdog1981]

Just doing a bump a bunch of guys posted some of the stuff we went over earlier this summer.

 

[Polk738]

I see this being the main reason why they just added two more safeties to the lineup, I'm not that great at recognizing defensive coverages but I don't remember seeing them try a big nickel with Browner out there, or if they even did this scheme at all? Maybe someone will chime in and say otherwise.

 

[Tical21]

They haven't. The only possible way this becomes a reality is if Kam is now our SAM LB in many situations.

 

[RobDaHawk]

They haven't. The only possible way this becomes a reality is if Kam is now our SAM LB in many situations.

Tical, help me understand why it's gotta be Kam. Couldn't they slide someone else in there on those special plays where they're trying to negate the TE? I appreciate the knowledge you bring brother.

 

[Vetamur]

5 linebackers..12 Dbs.. they arent going to the 425 as a base, but they plan on being in some sort of nickle a lot. I didnt see a lot of exotic stuff in early training camp when I was there..and I realize the 2 safeties traded for were mostly for special teams..but I keep thinking back to PCs first year when in a couple of games they were playing 6 DBs at times as a sort of base defense, a bunch of safeties flying around. Against teams that havent really equipped themselves to power run, they may go back to that at times..?

Will be interesting to see anyway!

 

[RobDaHawk]

5 linebackers..12 Dbs.. they arent going to the 425 as a base, but they plan on being in some sort of nickle a lot. I didnt see a lot of exotic stuff in early training camp when I was there..and I realize the 2 safeties traded for were mostly for special teams..but I keep thinking back to PCs first year when in a couple of games they were playing 6 DBs at times as a sort of base defense, a bunch of safeties flying around. Against teams that havent really equipped themselves to power run, they may go back to that at times..?

Will be interesting to see anyway!

It's also possibly gonna throw a wrench into this 425 mix because of McCray failing his physical this morning. So maybe not much will change after all. I guess we'll all find out this week anyway.

 

[Vetamur]

Still 11 DBs and just 5 LBs..although I suspect one more will be gone after week 1 and they possibly bring Tukuafu back. I dont know..Im excited to see how these players are used because PC generally puts his players in a position to succeed.

 

[Tical21]

They haven't. The only possible way this becomes a reality is if Kam is now our SAM LB in many situations.

Tical, help me understand why it's gotta be Kam. Couldn't they slide someone else in there on those special plays where they're trying to negate the TE? I appreciate the knowledge you bring brother.

It theoretically could be someone else, but whoever they put there has to be stout against the run at the point of attack. I think Kam is the only safety that could possibly do that.

 

[RobDaHawk]

They haven't. The only possible way this becomes a reality is if Kam is now our SAM LB in many situations.

Tical, help me understand why it's gotta be Kam. Couldn't they slide someone else in there on those special plays where they're trying to negate the TE? I appreciate the knowledge you bring brother.

It theoretically could be someone else, but whoever they put there has to be stout against the run at the point of attack. I think Kam is the only safety that could possibly do that.

Yeah, I was thinking that McCray could have done that. But with his failed physical this morning, that's no longer a possibility.

 

[dogorama]

After 5 days of camp and seeing how they are using BB I believe the Seahawks will use the TCU 425 defence as the BASE defence. Since NFL teams are almost always running 11 or 12 personnel (1 back 1 TE or 1 back 2 TE) this is a way to stop it. Gery Patterson at TCU started running this style of defence since he took over running the defense at TCU in 1998 he turned one of the worst defensive units in college football into one the top 10 scoring defense in the nation. This style of nickel is an attacking style with a hybrid safety/cornerback used as a Rover/Bandit. This is the role that BB and Kelcie McCray are almost perfectly suited for. We can also see something very similar with the Arizona Cardinals 335 defence using WSU Deone Bucannon as a Sam/3rd safety or "Landshark". Watching the Seahawks this camp they have almost never been in the base 43 over/under looks they have almost always been running this 425 with BB or McCray as the Sam/strong side defender. This is different than a regular nickel package that substitutes a linebacker for a cornerback. With the 425 a team needs a very strong safety/linebacker type that can still complete his run gap assignments on 1st/2nd down yet still be able to cover like a safety. A very interesting wrinkle to an already dominant defensive unit.

On the tin foil hat side of things. The Seahawk coaching staff spent a lot of time in Dallas and the TCU campus this offseason looking at the team, talking with coaches. They did get two TCU guys as well.Drafting Joey Hunt and signing Trevone Boykin.


Here is a link to a story done by Grantland describing the 425

http://grantland.com/features/hard-knoc ... patterson/

This thread is just a retake on the "Big Nickel" thread we have already talked about. When you say 4-2-5 that's just a nickel package, but when you say big nickel it denotes that you are replacing a corner with a "bigger" safety. As for it being the TCU 425 that's not quite accurate either, Green Bay's defensive coordinator Fritz Shurmur designed this concept back in the mid 90's and utilized in GB's 1996 top-ranked defense. Gary Patterson merely copied it in 1998 and put his own variations in. That is part of the beauty of it, it lends itself to situational variations.

As for it being a "base defense," I would like to see you try that against Dallas or any other good run-blocking team, they will eat you alive. It is difficult enough for 250lb linebackers to shed those big blockers, safety's can get mauled. The only thing a safety is better than in that situation is a corner. Yes I realize that it works best with bigger or more aggressive fast safety's, especially in a base scheme, but how many Cam Chancellors or Honey Badgers are out there? Don't get me wrong it certainly has its value against the new hybrid TE's, 2-TE sets, and when an opposing team is running no-huddle but it isn't a be-all D.

And no offense to the OP, but it makes it sound like we are down there studying TCU's D as some sort of trend setters but NFL teams have been employing this D for 2-3 years already. Check out the link below that talks about the 425, or big nickel if you will, as being the "hottest defensive trend" in the NFL and then note the four teams employing it. Guess who is conspicuously absent from the list? This article is from 2014, we should have had this in our arsenal last year.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... sive-trend

 

[cheese22]

They haven't. The only possible way this becomes a reality is if Kam is now our SAM LB in many situations.

Tical, help me understand why it's gotta be Kam. Couldn't they slide someone else in there on those special plays where they're trying to negate the TE? I appreciate the knowledge you bring brother.

It theoretically could be someone else, but whoever they put there has to be stout against the run at the point of attack. I think Kam is the only safety that could possibly do that.

Yeah, I was thinking that McCray could have done that. But with his failed physical this morning, that's no longer a possibility.

This is a role I thought McEvoy would be able to fill. With his size, db experience and physical abilities I thought he'd be perfect.