This team will never make another SB with Bevell

[Seahawk Sailor]

If anyone is shown the door, it should be Cable and his science experiments at the OL first.

Word.

Funny how much better Bevell's play calling starts looking when the line actually blocks.

 

[Rob12]

Can't run an effective offense without a run game that defenses at least have to respect. Did they respect the run game led by Christine Michael? A recovering Thomas Rawls? An offensive line that gifted their running backs with being hit .5 seconds after getting the ball? RW has not been a threat in the running game all season, due to injuries and a philosophy switch to making him a more pocket QB. Blame Bevell all you want but I don't think there is an OC alive that could thrive here right now. A philosophy change up front is what this offense so desperately needs. We can't ignore the offensive line anymore. This season has proved that in spades. Wilson has sustained a serious ankle, knee, and pectoral injuries this season. Not saying that's all on the line but they played a part. It's time to protect the massive investment. He's the best QB in franchise history and the running game averages a shade under 100 YPG per game. Guess what? That's not PCJS era Seahawks football. At all. They better get it figured out.


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[Rob12]

Giving little resources to the offensive line and over reliance on the D will sink this season.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Can't run an effective offense without a run game that defenses at least have to respect. Did they respect the run game led by Christine Michael? A recovering Thomas Rawls? An offensive line that gifted their running backs with being hit .5 seconds after getting the ball? RW has not been a threat in the running game all season, due to injuries and a philosophy switch to making him a more pocket QB. Blame Bevell all you want but I don't think there is an OC alive that could thrive here right now. A philosophy change up front is what this offense so desperately needs. We can't ignore the offensive line anymore. This season has proved that in spades. Wilson has sustained a serious ankle, knee, and pectoral injuries this season. Not saying that's all on the line but they played a part. It's time to protect the massive investment. He's the best QB in franchise history and the running game averages a shade under 100 YPG per game. Guess what? That's not PCJS era Seahawks football. At all. They better get it figured out.


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I have to disagree with you Rob. There have been many offenses that are able to run offenses without a strong running game. A good example is our own 2007 Seahawk team. Holmgren realized that he was pounding a square peg into a round hole by trying to keep pounding the rock with a washed up Shaun Alexander, journyman Mo Morris, and poor O-Line was an exercise in futility. He immediately switched up his offensive game plan to compensate, and compensate we did. Hasselbeck had his best year, throwing for a shade under 4,000 yards putting up 28 TDs and 12 INTs. If Holmgren decided to do this at the beginning of the year I have no doubt that Hasselbeck would have been an all pro that year. He did all of this with Bobby Engram, Deion Branch and DJ Hackett as his wide receivers and the washed up, old TE Pollard.

How Holmgren compensated, is he went back to his WCO roots. He used the passing game as a substitute for a poor running game. High percentage passes, and misdirection plays that marched the team up the field. Hasselbeck rarely held onto the ball for more than 2 seconds. When teams tried shutting down our short routes, Holmgren was able to set up the intermediate and routes to take the top off of the defenses. This is not an approach unique to Holmgren, it's a style that many of the top offenses run today. This method is considerably easier on an offensive line than forcing them to hold blocks for eons. Moreover, the rate at which we get plays in also plays into the adjustments Wilson is able to make at the LOS. Wilson simply does not have much time to survey the field, and make audibles/adjustments. We end up burning time outs, and wasting opportunities.

The style of offense absolutely has bearing on the pressure a QB receives from the O-Line, and how they are able to move the ball up the field. My main gripe with our philosophy is we keep running our offense like we always have, when we clearly do not have the same personnel that made that style work. We are quite literally pounding a square peg into a round hole, and wondering why what we are doing is not working.

 

[RolandDeschain]

If anyone is shown the door, it should be Cable and his science experiments at the OL first.

Word.

Funny how much better Bevell's play calling starts looking when the line actually blocks.

Bevell's play calling has been stupid for a long time, and was stupid when our line was much better. Lynch being such a badass as to overcome it a lot of the time doesn't change that fact. You guys are pretending Bevell's stupidity is something recent. I'm on record here bitching about it for like four years now.

...We need to get rid of Cable too, I'm not saying otherwise, but give us a stellar O-line and Bevell's still a crappy OC with the situational awareness of a potato who can't make decent adjustments when what he's trying to do isn't working. That part is NOT RELATED TO THE OFFENSIVE LINE. IT'S A CHALLENGE EVERY OC FACES OFF AND ON.

 

[bmorepunk]

And if you are wrong?

That's what makes statements like this great.

If the team makes the Super Bowl (or subsequent ones) with Bevell, then he gets to be happy because he's wrong.

If they don't, man was he right. And they probably won't, because even if Bevell was amazing and people loved him it's still not a high probability deal.

So essentially, he gets to make a high probability bet, regardless of how good the team is. And if he's wrong? Still gets the happy dance.

 

[StoneCold]

It is pretty simple.

It does not matter if Bevell is unfairly or falsely maligned. Whether he is or is not, is immaterial.

What does matter is that if the team dynamic is being derailed because defensive players feel they are held to standards that the very OC is not, they simply are not going to put in the additional sacrifice and effort. Why bother putting yourself through all the additional work, time from family, physical pain and all the rest if you truely believe that regardless of your efforts the OC will somehow find a way to squander the game anyway?

The fact that Sherman has effectively called out playcalling (a shot across the bow to Bevell) shows this is happening. However Sherman is a fairly intelligent and savvy player, I highly doubt he makes the statement if he felt he was alone in this belief. It is very likely that this is a feeling that is shared among some of the defensive players - and if so, Bevell becomes a problem.

This has nothing to do with me disliking Bevell. There are very specific signs that the defensive players are taking umbrage at the guy, and given the commitment needed to make a SB - I feel it is reasonable to expect some of that commitment won't be there from guys that feel their investment won't be worth it because the OC will keep them from winning anyway.

If Bevell is discouraging our defensive players from going all in, then this is going to be a problem that repeats itself as long as Bevell is a member of the team.

Now, you can remove the defensive players that hold this view, but then you run the risk of removing your best defensive players, your highest contributors and in doing, your ability to compete for a SB in the first place.

On what do you base your claim that players are unhappy with Bevel? We only have Richards comments in a heated moment. Have there been others?

I think the teams chemistry is messed up right now, but I don't have enough real information to make any declarative statement about what the problem is. I think number 1 is losing close games. Winning solves all kinds of smaller issues. We lost those games because of coaches and players decisions. That's team sports. Grousing about losing is also a part of team sports. Meh.

 

[LoneHawkFan]

It is pretty simple.

It does not matter if Bevell is unfairly or falsely maligned. Whether he is or is not, is immaterial.

What does matter is that if the team dynamic is being derailed because defensive players feel they are held to standards that the very OC is not, they simply are not going to put in the additional sacrifice and effort. Why bother putting yourself through all the additional work, time from family, physical pain and all the rest if you truely believe that regardless of your efforts the OC will somehow find a way to squander the game anyway?

The fact that Sherman has effectively called out playcalling (a shot across the bow to Bevell) shows this is happening. However Sherman is a fairly intelligent and savvy player, I highly doubt he makes the statement if he felt he was alone in this belief. It is very likely that this is a feeling that is shared among some of the defensive players - and if so, Bevell becomes a problem.

This has nothing to do with me disliking Bevell. There are very specific signs that the defensive players are taking umbrage at the guy, and given the commitment needed to make a SB - I feel it is reasonable to expect some of that commitment won't be there from guys that feel their investment won't be worth it because the OC will keep them from winning anyway.

If Bevell is discouraging our defensive players from going all in, then this is going to be a problem that repeats itself as long as Bevell is a member of the team.

Now, you can remove the defensive players that hold this view, but then you run the risk of removing your best defensive players, your highest contributors and in doing, your ability to compete for a SB in the first place.

It seems like the defense has squandered their fare share of games as well; they squandered away a 31-pt performance from our offense when we needed the defense the most. Just last week.

 

[Siouxhawk]

It's just outside noise that doesn't mean a thing. Pete and the team know that advanced effort by the offensive line is what will make the offense run fluidly. I wouldn't mind scrapping the ZBS, so perhaps that's what their efforts will be later. Bevell is one of the best OC's in the league, so he'll still be with the team next year and beyond and could very well be promoted should Cable be pried away by a team with a head vacancy.

 

[RolandDeschain]

On what do you base your claim that players are unhappy with Bevel? We only have Richards comments in a heated moment. Have there been others?

Marshawn turning to the sideline and flipping off Bevell in full view of the cameras is what; meaningless, then?

 

[Siouxhawk]

On what do you base your claim that players are unhappy with Bevel? We only have Richards comments in a heated moment. Have there been others?

Marshawn turning to the sideline and flipping off Bevell in full view of the cameras is what; meaningless, then?

That has never, ever been proven. He could have been flipping the bird to Carroll, Sherm Smith, a teammate, a fan in the stands, the popcorn salesman or even the artist of a song that popped into his head. There's no telling with Marshawn and he never told. Marshawn got along with Bevell as well as he did any coach on the staff.

 

[brimsalabim]

Look at it this way.... if DB really is the problem you believe him to be then Pete is responsible. Bev isn't going to fire himself. No. The fact that he is still running the offense means that he is doing things the way Pete wants him too. Same with Cable and his son of Frankenline.

 

[rigelian]

I don't quite understand this. They made two super bowls with Bevell as the OC, but for some reason they'll never make another one if he is the OC. There is a definite logic problem here.

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[WmHBonney]

It's just outside noise that doesn't mean a thing. Pete and the team know that advanced effort by the offensive line is what will make the offense run fluidly. I wouldn't mind scrapping the ZBS, so perhaps that's what their efforts will be later. Bevell is one of the best OC's in the league, so he'll still be with the team next year and beyond and could very well be promoted should Cable be pried away by a team with a head vacancy.

NO. He is not. There is a reason why he hasn't been hired away.

 

[NFSeahawks]

If anyone is shown the door, it should be Cable and his science experiments at the OL first.

Word.

Funny how much better Bevell's play calling starts looking when the line actually blocks.

Bevell's play calling has been stupid for a long time, and was stupid when our line was much better. Lynch being such a badass as to overcome it a lot of the time doesn't change that fact. You guys are pretending Bevell's stupidity is something recent. I'm on record here bitching about it for like four years now.

...We need to get rid of Cable too, I'm not saying otherwise, but give us a stellar O-line and Bevell's still a crappy OC with the situational awareness of a potato who can't make decent adjustments when what he's trying to do isn't working. That part is NOT RELATED TO THE OFFENSIVE LINE. IT'S A CHALLENGE EVERY OC FACES OFF AND ON.

+1 Roland.

It's amazing to me how many silly posts I'm seeing from people excusing Bevell because of the poor offensive line.

Did you just start watching the Seahawks this year? What about Super Bowl 49?

What about fade routes on 3 and 10+, Bubbles behind the line on second and 10.

The problems with this team are unique in themselves and there is more than one.

 

[brimsalabim]

No I get that Bevell hasn't made adjustments to his play calling to account for things like our woeful 5 but it's ultimately got to be Pete who is behind this stubbornness because Pete has let it go on so long.

 

[WindCityHawk]

Let's clarify the argument. I don't think anyone's suggesting that firing Bevell will magically transform us into a 14-2 team. What most of us want--what I want, certainly--is to just do away with the ridiculous, zero-chance plays like empty backfields on 3rd and 2 which loudly broadcast, "HEY, WE'RE GOING TO PASS!" to the defense. Or the relentless use of Jimmy as an $8M decoy. We've seen what he can do as a receiver and jump ball specialist! And the screens, oh Lord, the screens.

Bevell is not the source of all of our problems (Cable et al, I'm looking at you), but his stubbornness and rigidity are clearly holding the offense back this year, and the calls for his head are a culmination of several years of baffling decisions at one point or another.

There's clearly some dissonance between our offensive talent and our offensive coordinator, so an adjustment is needed. I would rather keep the talent and change the coordinator. If the team wants to keep Bevell, fine, but then trade away Jimmy and invest his money in someone who fits Bevell's vision, but frankly, I think axing a coach would send a bigger message down the wire that subpar performances will not be tolerated in this organization.

Would a symbolic firing be fair? Maybe not. But it would put the whole team on notice: Shape up or ship out.

 

[WmHBonney]

My 2 cents:
Bevell is the one who called The Play. I don't care what Pete says. He wanted to look smart and stick it to Marshawn. The team knows this and has never forgotten. Bevell is the type of guy that always wants to let you know that he is the smartest guy in the room. Only he is not. More and more players are just totally fed up with his stupid play calls and it shows. Bevell IS the problem because the players have no faith/respect in his abilities. The OP is correct. This team can only go so far based on talent. They will not get over the hump as long as Bevell is here.

 

[NFSeahawks]

My 2 cents:
Bevell is the one who called The Play. I don't care what Pete says. He wanted to look smart and stick it to Marshawn. The team knows this and has never forgotten. Bevell is the type of guy that always wants to let you know that he is the smartest guy in the room. Only he is not. More and more players are just totally fed up with his stupid play calls and it shows. Bevell IS the problem because the players have no faith/respect in his abilities. The OP is correct. This team can only go so far based on talent. They will not get over the hump as long as Bevell is here.

Unfortunately he's got as big of a pride issue as he does for a knack of calling bad plays.

 

[StoneCold]

On what do you base your claim that players are unhappy with Bevel? We only have Richards comments in a heated moment. Have there been others?

Marshawn turning to the sideline and flipping off Bevell in full view of the cameras is what; meaningless, then?

To us watching the game? Yes. It is far to open to interpretation to have specific meaning. Could be an inside joke. Could be it was just that play he didn't like. Has Marshawn ever commented about it? Doug also flipped him off and his was tongue in cheek. What does it mean?