This weeks Fire Bevell Thread

[RolandDeschain]

but I think it's naive to think all of our offensive woes lay at the feet of Bevell,

Absolutely. That would be incredibly naive.

or even the majority of them.

Well, this is where we differ. Do I think Darrell Bevell is at least 50.1% responsible for our offensive woes? Yes, I do. That makes it most, for me. I wish we had proof one way or the other.

 

[HansGruber]

Warren Moon said our receivers were too small to target the short passes in the middle of the field. It's not an issue with Wilson's passing or accuracy as much as that you can't target small receivers in the middle without getting picked off by today's taller faster LBs (because he said you have to lob the passes up a bit to get over the linemen - the shorter higher trajectory making it easier for LBs to close on the ball).

 

[hoxrox]

Did they get too cute? Yeah, probably. But to call it sheer incompetence is taking it too far. As Scotte and Sgt. have alluded to, to call Bevell incompetent is to call Pete Carroll incompetent. Remember folks, Pete Carroll is the one we hear is in Bevell's ear to implement gadget college plays -- it was his idea to implement read-option, his idea to run Harvin on jet sweeps, his idea to run the Auburn play against Green Bay. You don't think Pete loves these gadget plays when they're workin'? Then you don't know Big Balls Pete.

That's a good point and I think even Carroll admits he didn't do a good job preparing for this game. I applaud him for trying stay ahead of the NFL curve - some of that stuff worked great earlier, but teams have now caught up.

Will be interesting to see how they adapt.

 

[Largent80]

I thought Russell could get a lot by air because I figured Dallas would sell out to stop Lynch like Denver did. He didn't get it done. Sometimes the game just breaks that way. Oh well?.

He hit Baldwin, Kearse and Willson (2 times) right in their hands. Dropped. Baldwin made a great ST play but for him to be in RW's face after dropping an easy catch is way beyond ok.

Oh Well, we lost a game at home we should have won because our O.C. and Pete thought since they sucked at stopping the run and we run well, we decided to pass. Oh brother. We passed behind the line of scrimmage, we ran with a WR, No slants, just a crap design from top to bottom and we wonder why the defense failed?

Not me.

 

[HansGruber]

Before we bash Bevell, we have to remember that he has one of the most difficult OC jobs in the NFL. Though Wilson is very talented, the combination of his height disadvantage, a bottom ten pass protecting line, his tendency to hold the ball, the inability of our receivers to get open on scrambles, and Wilson's hesitancy to throw to open receivers if they are not open enough makes passing the football very difficult, especially when you play in the NFL's best defensive division with a bunch of brilliant DC's who know how to attack your passing game.

To counter these issues, Bevell has implemented a new offense designed to work around these problems. And when he's remembered to hand the ball to Lynch 20+ times and take 3-4 shots deep a game , the offense has looked amazing.

Unfortunately, Bevell has at times been guilty of trying too hard. Too many trick plays. Too much manufacturing of yards. His offense this year is almost Chip Kelly-like, and Chip Kelly offenses tend to run hot and cold. And when they fail to hit on all cylinders, it's impossible to control a game.

It feels like this season, a premium has been put on scoring at the expense of control. Seattle is doing a pretty good job scoring, but they've conceded too much control in the process. They need to get some of that control back, and that starts by getting Lynch his 20+ carries every game.

It may be an unpopular opinion but I think Bevell has done a pretty good job this season with the exception of the most recent game. He needs to get our offense back to being a controlling unit, and he also needs to start tailoring his game plan more to what opposing defenses give him. But I think if he makes those adjustments, offense will be the least of our worries this season.

Nobody's talking about it, but Lynch's back HAS to have something to do with that as well. He's been having issues with it lately. The team is surely trying to keep him healthy for the postseason.

 

[Sarlacc83]

He needs to get our offense back to being a controlling unit, and he also needs to start tailoring his game plan more to what opposing defenses give him. But I think if he makes those adjustments, offense will be the least of our worries this season.

He should have done that for Dallas, which is why I am not happy with him. They were giving up large rushing numbers and we artsy fartsed around and lost an important home game.

He doesn't get a "pass" from this fan.

Go to the chalk talk thread. Huard makes the exact point that Bevell did call the plays to Seattle's advantage and the players lost the battles they had to win. Bevell is a scapegoat - and I have made the point already produced in here, time and time again, that your beef is really with Carroll for keeping Bevell on staff.

And if you want a Kelly type coordinator don't be surprised at the constant cycling as that type of genius continually gets hired away as a head coach.

And once again, let me challenge all of you to produce coordinator (or candidate) names who are superior - where they don't count if the HC like a Sean Peyton call the plays. Because removal id only half your problem. You need to provide someone better.

 

[Largent80]

Well then, we lost the battles. Really did we?

The battles were 2 rushes the first half for the best rusher we have vs. # 20 in the league vs. against it.

I don't give a rip about Huard, but if you have Lynch and a good run blocking line, you don't run bubble screens to Harvin, fake jet sweeps to Harvin, You run that ball with Lynch, and take some down the field shots.

 

[Sarlacc83]

In other words you won't watch because you won't challenge your preconceived notions

 

[hawk45]

Guess I figure stopping lynch has been the goal of nearly all teams we face. We've stayed with a lynch-heavy game plan against much better defenses. Do agree our passing attack needs to be able to thwart that game plan, but lynch needs to at least be in the backfield in order to do it. Don't really agree that we must be able to operate out of an empty set formation with this line, qb, and receivers. And you still must run lynch more than not at all to get the play action off the ground. Don't really care if Pete shares the blame, the play calls sucked.

 

[bjornanderson21]

The run sets up the pass, and allows the read-option to be successful. That has been our SUCCESSFUL formula.

Being cute has not been successful. Being pass-heavy with very little running has not been successful.

Bevell and Pete both deserve a lot of blame for what is going wrong. The cowboys did NOTHING to force us to change our successful offense. Bevell and Carroll changed it on their own and it is no surprise that it failed.

We had an established identity on offense and there was no reason to abandon it until teams start shutting us down.

Instead, Bevell and Pete shut the hawks down so the cowboys wouldn't have to.

Know your strengths, know your weaknesses, know what you can do successfully.

 

[chris98251]

Well when a game plan is smoked out you need to adjust, our adjustments in game and after the half have been pretty abysmal, in fact it's hard to see any adjustment. The biggest adjustment I ever see is more conservative.

That is on Bevell, Cable and Pete.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Well when a game plan is smoked out you need to adjust, our adjustments in game and after the half have been pretty abysmal, in fact it's hard to see any adjustment. The biggest adjustment I ever see is more conservative.

That is on Bevell, Cable and Pete.

Agree with you 100% on this. At the half I kept thinking that we'd hopefully adjust to what they were doing on D and that just didn't happen.

 

[hawkfan68]

Before we bash Bevell, we have to remember that he has one of the most difficult OC jobs in the NFL. Though Wilson is very talented, the combination of his height disadvantage, a bottom ten pass protecting line, his tendency to hold the ball, the inability of our receivers to get open on scrambles, and Wilson's hesitancy to throw to open receivers if they are not open enough makes passing the football very difficult, especially when you play in the NFL's best defensive division with a bunch of brilliant DC's who know how to attack your passing game.

To counter these issues, Bevell has implemented a new offense designed to work around these problems. And when he's remembered to hand the ball to Lynch 20+ times and take 3-4 shots deep a game , the offense has looked amazing.

Unfortunately, Bevell has at times been guilty of trying too hard. Too many trick plays. Too much manufacturing of yards. His offense this year is almost Chip Kelly-like, and Chip Kelly offenses tend to run hot and cold. And when they fail to hit on all cylinders, it's impossible to control a game.

It feels like this season, a premium has been put on scoring at the expense of control. Seattle is doing a pretty good job scoring, but they've conceded too much control in the process. They need to get some of that control back, and that starts by getting Lynch his 20+ carries every game.

It may be an unpopular opinion but I think Bevell has done a pretty good job this season with the exception of the most recent game. He needs to get our offense back to being a controlling unit, and he also needs to start tailoring his game plan more to what opposing defenses give him. But I think if he makes those adjustments, offense will be the least of our worries this season.

This is what befuddles me.....what happened to where RW is now hesitant in throwing receivers open? He was doing that for the past 2 years, what or who got in his head. They need to have that 2012-13 Russell Wilson back. The playmaker who isn't afraid to throw to receivers who are covered. It comes down to offensive philosophy. With Harvin being healthy, they have changed the offense. Instead of adding Harvin to the offensive mix (as it was last year), they have the offense completely centered on him. Instead of having him play WR, they got him in RB/SB hybrid mode. They overuse creatively to point where it's not surprising anymore...like it's an ordinary old play. Teams have adapted and adjusted to it. The Seahawks need to adjust. It's the current offense philosophy that is out of whack. That's why it's less on the players and more on the coaching staff, IMO. Need to get back to what made the Seahawks successful. I like the way they started using Harvin in the GB game (they actually had him running some receiver routes past LOS). Somehow they got away from it since week 2 for whatever reason.

 

[hawkfan68]

Well then, we lost the battles. Really did we?

The battles were 2 rushes the first half for the best rusher we have vs. # 20 in the league vs. against it.

I don't give a rip about Huard, but if you have Lynch and a good run blocking line, you don't run bubble screens to Harvin, fake jet sweeps to Harvin, You run that ball with Lynch, and take some down the field shots.

Dallas didn't stop the Seahawks run attack....the Seahawks did by not giving Lynch enough carries. Lynch had 10 carries for 61 yards. That is 6.1 yds per carry. Yes, he got 32 on one carry but that is vintage Lynch. He'll get steady 3 yards on a carry but then bust out huge gain. Lynch was extremely underused this game. He was open on side on many plays with a lot of green between him and the closest Dallas defender. Russell never looked for him or went to him. They went to him on a short pass in the Washington game and it basically stuck a dagger. It may have happened against Dallas. Giving the ball to Lynch also takes time off the clock. The Seahawks had a 23-20 lead. That is the time to feed Lynch. Yet they couldn't or wouldn't do it.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

but I think it's naive to think all of our offensive woes lay at the feet of Bevell,

Absolutely. That would be incredibly naive.

or even the majority of them.

Well, this is where we differ. Do I think Darrell Bevell is at least 50.1% responsible for our offensive woes? Yes, I do. That makes it most, for me. I wish we had proof one way or the other.

We do have proof.

Is it Bevell's fault that his RT can't go two whole series without false starting?

Is it Bevell's fault that our WR's can't get enough separation?

Is it Bevell's fault that Russell had arguably his worst game as our QB?

Is it Bevell's fault that the defense can't get off the field so that he can enact the gameplan he, Russell and Pete wanted to do?

Is it Bevell's fault that Kearse and Baldwin had their worst blocking game of the season? If Kearse doesn't whiff on two blocks on Harvin screens, those are big gains.

Is it Bevell's fault that most of his run plays require a good blocking TE and a good blocking FB, neither of which we had Sunday.


Bottom line for me, we've seen what this offense can do when it's executing at a high level. It requires concentration, precision, timing and dynamic players making dynamic plays........so when you're seeing the offense sputter IMO it's not Bevell, it's the execution.......and my friend, lately that execution has been pathetic.

 

[Largent80]

Lets face it. The entire team had a down day at the same time except the special teams.

 

[RolandDeschain]

There's just no discussing some things with some people. Never mind.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

There's just no discussing some things with some people. Never mind.

I agree.

 

[RolandDeschain]

...I wish we'd pull a late 2012 season Baltimore Ravens, that's all I'll say any further about it.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

...I wish we'd pull a late 2012 season Baltimore Ravens, that's all I'll say any further about it.

But the board may implode if we go 10-6 while barely getting into the playoffs as the 6th WC. There may be nobody left to actually see us hoist our 2nd Lombardi. :sarcasm_on: