This weeks Fire Bevell Thread

[Largent80]

A great QB like RW CAN make short slant throws. It is the only way we are going to have a balanced attack and it needs to be implemented regardless of the past, or failures. It is like when I am teaching drums, rudiments are taught until it gets driven home, in other words repetition.

You can't tell me that we are relegated to this high school jr. college fly sweep/bubble screen b.s.

Harvin needs to be sent out of the friggin backfield to catch passes. If he gets injured?..So What, you can't play this game that way.

 

[DavidSeven]

Yes, we do throw slants, and we're terrible at them. Watching Russell's slant attempts last year was like getting your teeth pulled. Not sure why people are longing for them now. Short memories.

I think the point is more that we need to come up with some quick-strike, high-percentage passing plays, ala the slant, as they will help keep defenses honest. In a previous post you said we simply can't do them. In this post you seem to say the same. I reject that. It may not be Russell's best skill, but to suggest it's impossible, to me, is way premature.

I don't think it's impossible. It's a challenge. Pair it with Pete's ball-protection philosophy, and it's going to be tough sledding to get anything going in the middle of the field. Russell just has a tough time completing passes in that area. I think vision and the inability to step up in the pocket are issues; insurmountable ones? No, but issues nonetheless.

The gadget stuff, read-option, drag routes; we're putting all that stuff in to compensate for this other limitation. Now we're killing our coaches for trying everything possible to expand this offense? That's unfair. This team can't live and die on run and play-action alone. Basically, I agree that Russell needs to hit some quick strikes for this offense to work. For a long time, we've been living and dying on hitting explosives on broken plays. Somehow Russell hits more of those than not. But when that's eliminated (e.g. STL, ARI, DAL), we get nothing on offense. Delivering the ball quicker and on time will bring more consistency to this offense and will open up more for Lynch and Harvin.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Yes, we do throw slants, and we're terrible at them. Watching Russell's slant attempts last year was like getting your teeth pulled. Not sure why people are longing for them now. Short memories.

...I can distinctly call a fair number of successful slants, the problem is we'd do a "group" of them in a game, then not even try for games on end. I guess it falls to one of us (no doubt you'll point at me) to go watch all of last year's games to find the slant attempts......

From what I remember Russell has been fairly effective with slants? The only time I don't remember completions on them is when WR's would have a drop. We don't run them a lot tho so small sample size.

I don't know how David came to that conclusion, because we often don't even try a single slant in a game, but there have been games where we literally complete several for good yardage.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Having power doesn't mean you are slapping everyone in the face with it.

I'm not saying Pete is forcing his power down people's throat like Kim Jong Un, but he does have his hands on every single piece of this team, and that includes offensive schemes and play calling.

All I'm asking is for the Bevell haters to make sure they point some of their unhappiness towards the play calling to Pete. Is it 100% Pete? No. But it's not 100% Bevell either. So we can argue about the percent, but Pete is certainly highly involved in what the offense is doing on a daily basis.

 

[Largent80]

I saw Russell Wilson hit his receivers in the hands with perfectly thrown balls down the field and they dropped them. That certainly isn't on the O.C. HOWEVER, they are over-trying. Dallas was not fooled once, NOT ONCE.

They knew exactly what was coming. It is time to try some different formations, but not new formations to run the same stuff we are currently seeing. The only reason I named this thread Fire Bevell was because of previous seasons, usually it is a joke or parody if you will, however, I was steamin' mad when I typed up the first post and haven't cooled off yet.

 

[Anthony!]

Yes, we do throw slants, and we're terrible at them. Watching Russell's slant attempts last year was like getting your teeth pulled. Not sure why people are longing for them now. Short memories.

Because toward the end he was completing them a lot

 

[DavidSeven]

Russell has thrown successful slants. He has thrown poorly thrown slants. I'm not saying he can't throw a slant. The issue is that every time he throws a slant, it looks like the most labored throw in NFL history. Assuming the pocket is crumbing and his vision is disrupted in that portion of the field, the throw is almost entirely rhythm and timing. He can't just step into the pocket, wait for an open receiver, and throw to him. He basically has to throw blind before the linemen get close enough to tip the pass. It consistently looked awkward last year, even when we were completing them. How much YAC did we ever get on those slant? Almost none, because it took every bit of effort just to get the completion.

 

[DavidSeven]

Yes, we do throw slants, and we're terrible at them. Watching Russell's slant attempts last year was like getting your teeth pulled. Not sure why people are longing for them now. Short memories.

Because toward the end he was completing them a lot

Toward the end of what? The regular season when he was the worst stretch of his professional career?

 

[Anthony!]

Yes, we do throw slants, and we're terrible at them. Watching Russell's slant attempts last year was like getting your teeth pulled. Not sure why people are longing for them now. Short memories.

I think the point is more that we need to come up with some quick-strike, high-percentage passing plays, ala the slant, as they will help keep defenses honest. In a previous post you said we simply can't do them. In this post you seem to say the same. I reject that. It may not be Russell's best skill, but to suggest it's impossible, to me, is way premature.

I don't think it's impossible. It's a challenge. Pair it with Pete's ball-protection philosophy, and it's going to be tough sledding to get anything going in the middle of the field. Russell just has a tough time completing passes in that area. I think vision and the inability to step up in the pocket are issues; insurmountable ones? No, but issues nonetheless.

The gadget stuff, read-option, drag routes; we're putting all that stuff in to compensate for this other limitation. Now we're killing our coaches for trying everything possible to expand this offense? That's unfair. This team can't live and die on run and play-action alone. Basically, I agree that Russell needs to hit some quick strikes for this offense to work. For a long time, we've been living and dying on hitting explosives on broken plays. Somehow Russell hits more of those than not. But when that's eliminated (e.g. STL, ARI, DAL), we get nothing on offense. Delivering the ball quicker and on time will bring more consistency to this offense and will open up more for Lynch and Harvin.

I think the only issue on the middle is PC nto wanting to take chances, If there is a bad throw, or a tip or WR drop in the middle the odds go up on it being a TO. That is the only issue, When allowed Rw has shown he is very capable of throwing it over the middle. They just do not run many plays with receivers over the middle out of fear of a INT. Millan has said it for 2 years Rw can make the throw but they are to worried about mistakes. I mean both MIllan and Brock said the Wr are not getting open. Given that it makes throws over the middle even more of a concern

 

[Anthony!]

Russell has thrown successful slants. He has thrown poorly thrown slants. I'm not saying he can't throw a slant. The issue is that every time he throws a slant, it looks like the most labored throw in NFL history. Assuming the pocket is crumbing and his vision is disrupted in that portion of the field, the throw is almost entirely rhythm and timing. He can't just step into the pocket, wait for an open receiver, and throw to him. He basically has to throw blind before the linemen get close enough to tip the pass. It consistently looked awkward last year, even when we were completing them. How much YAC did we ever get on those slant? Almost none, because it took every bit of effort just to get the completion.

How much of that is the Wr, and the o-line. They are timing routes and our WR have had troubles getting off the box.

 

[DavidSeven]

When T-Jack plays, he throws short middle. Yes, part of our avoidance of that area is probably on coaching. But it's not all of it.

 

[DavidSeven]

Russell has thrown successful slants. He has thrown poorly thrown slants. I'm not saying he can't throw a slant. The issue is that every time he throws a slant, it looks like the most labored throw in NFL history. Assuming the pocket is crumbing and his vision is disrupted in that portion of the field, the throw is almost entirely rhythm and timing. He can't just step into the pocket, wait for an open receiver, and throw to him. He basically has to throw blind before the linemen get close enough to tip the pass. It consistently looked awkward last year, even when we were completing them. How much YAC did we ever get on those slant? Almost none, because it took every bit of effort just to get the completion.

How much of that is the Wr, and the o-line. They are timing routes and our WR have had troubles getting off the box.

Protection has to be good and the receivers have to catch the ball. So, yes, it's certainly on them to an extent as well.

 

[pehawk]

If we want slants, top 5 pass blocking OL, and quick striking throws shouldn't we just rehire Holmgren? Sounds good to me...who's on board?

 

[Anthony!]

Yes, we do throw slants, and we're terrible at them. Watching Russell's slant attempts last year was like getting your teeth pulled. Not sure why people are longing for them now. Short memories.

Because toward the end he was completing them a lot

Toward the end of what? The regular season when he was the worst stretch of his professional career?

Dude his last game of the seasons he had a QB rating of 102. 2 games before that is was 86 which while not great it was not bad either. And some of those were slants.

In fact here are his last 9 games including playoffs

qb rating
151
139
82
86
50
102
68
105
123

only 2 bad games, 2 okay games and 5 great games. And during that time only had a complt% below 60 twice in those bad games

 

[Anthony!]

When T-Jack plays, he throws short middle. Yes, part of our avoidance of that area is probably on coaching. But it's not all of it.

Ahh when did Tjack play enough to know that in the regular season? not a great point here

 

[RolandDeschain]

I'm not saying Pete is forcing his power down people's throat like Kim Jong Un, but he does have his hands on every single piece of this team, and that includes offensive schemes and play calling.

Proof, please. Heck, I don't even need proof - just some reasonable evidence that this is true will suffice.

All I'm asking is for the Bevell haters to make sure they point some of their unhappiness towards the play calling to Pete.

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Just read those posts quickly. Now, can you admit that I should be excluded from your broad-stroke paintbrush of people that hate Bevell only after losses? It seems clear to me that I've been very consistent here regarding Pete's overall offensive philosophy being something I do not like, (and that overall philosophy specifically being Pete's) and NOT just following losses. Can we agree on this, or not? Do I need to find even older replies of mine, too?

Is it 100% Pete? No. But it's not 100% Bevell either. So we can argue about the percent, but Pete is certainly highly involved in what the offense is doing on a daily basis.

Yeah, it's obviously not 100% on either one - I guess I just feel like it's 80% Bevell and 20% Pete, and you feel the reverse. I'd honestly love some strong evidence pointing to whatever the real percentage is, even if that means I'm wrong about it. As far as I can tell, the public doesn't know. I'd really like to, because believe it or not, I like to assign blame I feel needs to go somewhere to the right party.

 

[DavidSeven]

When T-Jack plays, he throws short middle. Yes, part of our avoidance of that area is probably on coaching. But it's not all of it.

Ahh when did Tjack play enough to know that in the regular season? not a great point here

When T-Jack was the starter, our slot receiver was the most productive receiver on the team. In Wilson's rookie year, the slot player (Baldwin) disappeared. Even now, he only gets targeted when either playing outside or running a pattern to the outside.

Not to say T-Jack is more complete. That would be a ridiculous statement.

 

[Largent80]

Bevell and RW are joined at the hip. Much more so than Bevell/Carroll.

All I am saying is incorporate some of the obvious, because since we don't run those plays now they will be "new" therefore something else for defenses to worry about. Right now?.....Ha, we are easy to defend.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Ha, we are easy to defend.

Bingo. That's a huge part of the real problem here, regardless of whom is to blame - we are very predictable...Which is ludicrous considering the fact that we have an accurate passer that can throw very well on the run and a dynamic talent like Percy Harvin, and we have a tough RB that can also catch.

We should be one of the most unpredictable offenses around...And that doesn't mean gimmicky.

 

[Scottemojo]

If you feature misdirection, teams will stop biting at it.

This is the heart of it for me. Those misdirection plays are supposed to be the changeup pitch. All the other stuff sets them up.

No firing required, Pete just has to set his OC straight.