Tony McDaniel Cut

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We are in phase two now. You have to adapt and make tough decisions. It will suck to watch some of these guys leave, it always does but if you are going to continue to have success the cuts are unavoidable.

The purpose of building a core group of players is to help the role players. The better core group you have the easier the job of your role players will be. I used an analogy of circles describing why the 9ers new players could struggle. Those guys that have looked good in limited time and that secondary that looked good last year will now have to do more to look the same in the absence of the talent that just departed. No more relying on the veteran to put you in the right position or cover your ass when you get out of position. Those little mistakes will become huge mistakes.

Seattle now has a core group that the role players can and will rely on and those role players in this system will get plenty of reps so in the event of an injury they are as ready as possible. Tony was a role player not a core guy. He and other role players will come and go from this point forward and the guys that come in will very likely perform better than they might have elsewhere because of the core guys we have locked up.

It's never going to be easy. The cap is designed for exactly that reason. The NFL wants parody. Unless you know a way to circumvent the salary cap then the way Pete and John are doing it is the best way possible.

I'm sorry cuttng Ahtyba Rubin's backup for a cheaper replqcement is not a tough decision.

Choosing to keep Baldwin over Tate is a tough decision.
Choosing to keep KJ over Bruce is a tough decision.
Choosing to not over pay Maxwell and go with Cary is a tough decision.

PC's press conference today was saying qll the the right things, while "always competing" in the slim chance they can sign him back on the cheap.

Stop with the hyperbole over Tony freaking McDaniel. This is getting embarrasing.

 

[hawknation2015]

We are in phase two now. You have to adapt and make tough decisions. It will suck to watch some of these guys leave, it always does but if you are going to continue to have success the cuts are unavoidable.

The purpose of building a core group of players is to help the role players. The better core group you have the easier the job of your role players will be. I used an analogy of circles describing why the 9ers new players could struggle. Those guys that have looked good in limited time and that secondary that looked good last year will now have to do more to look the same in the absence of the talent that just departed. No more relying on the veteran to put you in the right position or cover your ass when you get out of position. Those little mistakes will become huge mistakes.

Seattle now has a core group that the role players can and will rely on and those role players in this system will get plenty of reps so in the event of an injury they are as ready as possible. Tony was a role player not a core guy. He and other role players will come and go from this point forward and the guys that come in will very likely perform better than they might have elsewhere because of the core guys we have locked up.

It's never going to be easy. The cap is designed for exactly that reason. The NFL wants parody. Unless you know a way to circumvent the salary cap then the way Pete and John are doing it is the best way possible.

I'm sorry cuttng Ahtyba Rubin's backup for a cheaper replqcement is not a tough decision.

Choosing to keep Baldwin over Tate is a tough decision.
Choosing to keep KJ over Bruce is a tough decision.
Choosing to not over pay Maxwell and go with Cary is a tough decision.

PC's press conference today was saying qll the the right things, while "always competing" in the slim chance they can sign him back on the cheap.

Stop with the hyperbole over Tony freaking McDaniel. This is getting embarrasing.

I think your statement in calling McDaniel a "backup" is a little hyperbolic or misleading, given that he has been an incredible player against the run in the last 38 games as a Seahawk, including 34 games as a starter over the last two seasons including the playoffs, and was running solely with the first team defense during OTAs and through the first two training camp practices.

Rubin is getting the first crack at the starting job, but Carroll noted that this is still very much a competition. Jordan Hill, who has also been not very good against the run and mostly limited to the nickel defense, will also get a shot at some point. I would definitely consider Hill a better pass rusher than Rubin. Carroll also specifically mentioned Dobbs as a candidate. Dobbs is a much better athlete than Rubin, and better against the run IMO, so I will be interested to see this competition play out. Rubin does not have this job on lockdown, yet.

 

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I think your statement in calling McDaniel a "backup" is a little hyperbolic or misleading, given that he has been an incredible player against the run in the last 38 games as a Seahawk, including 34 games as a starter over the last two seasons including the playoffs, and was running solely with the first team defense during OTAs and through the first two training camp practices.

Rubin is getting the first crack at the starting job, but Carroll noted that this is still very much a competition. Jordan Hill, who has also been not very good against the run and mostly limited to the nickel defense, will also get a shot at some point. I would definitely consider Hill a better pass rusher than Rubin. Carroll also specifically mentioned Dobbs as a candidate. Dobbs is a much better athlete than Rubin, and better against the run IMO, so I will be interested to see this competition play out. Rubin does not have this job on lockdown, yet.

The worst rated player on the defense -11.8 (PFF)
http://gyazo.com/b947153bbb4e2bb47d6d997fd82893fa

Tony McDaniel was so valuable he wasn't even worth a conditional 7th to another team.

 

[hawknation2015]

I think your statement in calling McDaniel a "backup" is a little hyperbolic or misleading, given that he has been an incredible player against the run in the last 38 games as a Seahawk, including 34 games as a starter over the last two seasons including the playoffs, and was running solely with the first team defense during OTAs and through the first two training camp practices.

Rubin is getting the first crack at the starting job, but Carroll noted that this is still very much a competition. Jordan Hill, who has also been not very good against the run and mostly limited to the nickel defense, will also get a shot at some point. I would definitely consider Hill a better pass rusher than Rubin. Carroll also specifically mentioned Dobbs as a candidate. Dobbs is a much better athlete than Rubin, and better against the run IMO, so I will be interested to see this competition play out. Rubin does not have this job on lockdown, yet.

The worst rated player on the defense is -11.8 (PFF)
http://gyazo.com/b947153bbb4e2bb47d6d997fd82893fa

Tony McDaniel is so valuable he wasn't even worth a conditional 7th to another team.

Here is the thing about PFF's ratings of 3Ts, they value pass rushing over everything else, and McDaniel was a run stopper who mostly did not play on 3rd downs. That rating should not take anything away with the incredible job McDaniel did against the run last season, when the defense a set a franchise record for fewest rushing yards allowed despite losing Mebane to a seaseon-ending injury. McDaniel was still very good last season at controlling the line of scrimmage and shedding blockers.

 

[Fade]

I think your statement in calling McDaniel a "backup" is a little hyperbolic or misleading, given that he has been an incredible player against the run in the last 38 games as a Seahawk, including 34 games as a starter over the last two seasons including the playoffs, and was running solely with the first team defense during OTAs and through the first two training camp practices.

Rubin is getting the first crack at the starting job, but Carroll noted that this is still very much a competition. Jordan Hill, who has also been not very good against the run and mostly limited to the nickel defense, will also get a shot at some point. I would definitely consider Hill a better pass rusher than Rubin. Carroll also specifically mentioned Dobbs as a candidate. Dobbs is a much better athlete than Rubin, and better against the run IMO, so I will be interested to see this competition play out. Rubin does not have this job on lockdown, yet.

The worst rated player on the defense is -11.8 (PFF)
http://gyazo.com/b947153bbb4e2bb47d6d997fd82893fa

Tony McDaniel is so valuable he wasn't even worth a conditional 7th to another team.

Here is the thing about PFF's ratings of 3Ts, they value pass rushing over everything else, and McDaniel was a run stopper who mostly did not play on 3rd downs. That rating should not take anything away with the incredible job McDaniel did against the run last season, when the defense a set a franchise record for fewest rushing yards allowed despite losing Mebane to a seaseon-ending injury. McDaniel was still very good last season at controlling the line of scrimmage and shedding blockers.

He has a negative grade in all 4 categories, including the run (-3.7).

 

[hawknation2015]

I think your statement in calling McDaniel a "backup" is a little hyperbolic or misleading, given that he has been an incredible player against the run in the last 38 games as a Seahawk, including 34 games as a starter over the last two seasons including the playoffs, and was running solely with the first team defense during OTAs and through the first two training camp practices.

Rubin is getting the first crack at the starting job, but Carroll noted that this is still very much a competition. Jordan Hill, who has also been not very good against the run and mostly limited to the nickel defense, will also get a shot at some point. I would definitely consider Hill a better pass rusher than Rubin. Carroll also specifically mentioned Dobbs as a candidate. Dobbs is a much better athlete than Rubin, and better against the run IMO, so I will be interested to see this competition play out. Rubin does not have this job on lockdown, yet.

The worst rated player on the defense is -11.8 (PFF)
http://gyazo.com/b947153bbb4e2bb47d6d997fd82893fa

Tony McDaniel is so valuable he wasn't even worth a conditional 7th to another team.

Here is the thing about PFF's ratings of 3Ts, they value pass rushing over everything else, and McDaniel was a run stopper who mostly did not play on 3rd downs. That rating should not take anything away with the incredible job McDaniel did against the run last season, when the defense a set a franchise record for fewest rushing yards allowed despite losing Mebane to a seaseon-ending injury. McDaniel was still very good last season at controlling the line of scrimmage and shedding blockers.

He has a negative grade in all 4 categories, including the run (-3.7).

Again, PFF grades do not tell the whole story. If McDaniel is controlling the line of scrimmage and frees up Wagner to make a play on a run up the middle, McDaniel was probably not always credited with his positive efforts on those plays.

PFF is a particularly bad source of evidence for your claim here, considering that Rubin's grade was significantly worse against the run and overall (-14.3).

 

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Again, PFF grades do not tell the whole story. If McDaniel is controlling the line of scrimmage and frees up Wagner to make a play on a run up the middle, McDaniel was probably not always credited with his positive efforts on those plays.

PFF is a particularly bad source of evidence for your claim here, considering that Rubin's grade was significantly worse against the run and overall (-14.3).

Rubin played legit injured last year. Nice try though. He came here on a 1 year prove it deal to break the bank. He was the highest paid NT in the game, and he played out his contract (wasn't cut).

Tony McDaniel has never been the highest paid anything.

Them whiley Seahawks are smart. They upgraded the position while paying less money.

 

[netskier]

I value the collective wisdom of the Seahawks' coaches way over the PFF statistics.

 

[hawknation2015]

Again, PFF grades do not tell the whole story. If McDaniel is controlling the line of scrimmage and frees up Wagner to make a play on a run up the middle, McDaniel was probably not always credited with his positive efforts on those plays.

PFF is a particularly bad source of evidence for your claim here, considering that Rubin's grade was significantly worse against the run and overall (-14.3).

Rubin played legit injured last year. Nice try though. He came here on a 1 year prove it deal to break the bank. He was the highest paid NT in the game, and he played out his contract (wasn't cut).

Tony McDaniel has never been the highest paid anything.

Them whiley Seahawks are smart. They upgraded the position while paying less money.

He had a $8,175,000 cap hit last year and the Browns were the 32nd rated run defense with Rubin being one of the worst-graded in the league (-9.6 against the run). Good job, Browns.

He will hopefully benefit from playing next to Mebane.

 

[kf3339]

McDaniel was definitely better in 2013 than last year, but he was still a good player for us. Sad to see him leave since I suspect someone will pick him up pretty quickly.

It just means the young guys need to step up and earn more playing time. This of course means Hill for and foremost. But we also used a 5th round pick I believe on Staten last year who may have potential. Last I still want to believe that Jesse Williams can come back from all of his health issues and be the guy we all saw with Alabama. Wouldn't that be something to see. I know it's a long shot but still......

 

[Fade]

Again, PFF grades do not tell the whole story. If McDaniel is controlling the line of scrimmage and frees up Wagner to make a play on a run up the middle, McDaniel was probably not always credited with his positive efforts on those plays.

PFF is a particularly bad source of evidence for your claim here, considering that Rubin's grade was significantly worse against the run and overall (-14.3).

Rubin played legit injured last year. Nice try though. He came here on a 1 year prove it deal to break the bank. He was the highest paid NT in the game, and he played out his contract (wasn't cut).

Tony McDaniel has never been the highest paid anything.

Them whiley Seahawks are smart. They upgraded the position while paying less money.

He had a $8,175,000 cap hit last year and the Browns were the 32nd rated run defense with Rubin being one of the worst-graded in the league (-9.6 against the run). Good job, Browns.

He will hopefully benefit from playing next to Mebane.

Yep he is a piece of crap. /s

He got injured in October, sucked it up because of the money they were paying him. (Didn't Quit and go on IR and collect checks.) The Seahawks capitalized and got him on a prove it deal.

 

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Rubin was +4.6 for Dick Jauron in a 4-3 in 2012.

He has been bad for his career in 2 gap defenses. And pretty good in 1 gap defenses.

Conveniently the Seahawks run a 1 gap D. He is a high motor DT, and an upgrade over Mcdaniel.

We know what McDaniel is in this Defense --> -11.8 <--

Want to make a ban bet on Rubin grading out higher in 2015? (and no you can't reincarnate as HN2016 )

 

[hawknation2015]

Rubin was +4.6 for Dick Jauron in a 4-3 in 2012.

He has been bad for his career in 2 gap defenses. And pretty good in 1 gap defenses.

Conveniently the Seahawks run a 1 gap D. He is a high motor DT, and an upgrade over Mcdaniel.

We know what McDaniel is in this Defense --> -11.8 <--

Want to make a ban bet on Rubin grading out higher in 2015? (and no you can't reincarnate as HN2016 )

I will be HN2016 next year. No, I would never place a bet predicting a PFF grade, when they are not particularly good at grading the kinds of things players like Mebane or McDaniel do.

I disagree with you referring to McDaniel as Rubin's backup, when McDaniel was the incumbent starter and still running with the first team, and also disregarding all of the great work McDaniel did as a Seahawk starter, based on an ill-informed PFF grade. Especially when Rubin's PFF grade against the run was nearly three times worse than McDaniel's, but I guess you just explain that away because Rubin had a bum ankle at the beginning of last season.

You rely a bit too much on PFF grades and not enough on results, i.e. McDaniels' excellent play against the run vs. Rubin's horrid play. But I hope he improves playing next to a great player like Mebane and doesn't hurt his ankle again.

 

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I will be HN2016 next year. No, I would never place a bet predicting a PFF grade, when they are not particularly good at grading the kinds of things players like Mebane or McDaniel do.

I disagree with you referring to McDaniel as Rubin's backup, when McDaniel was the incumbent starter and still running with the first team, and also disregarding all of the great work McDaniel did as a Seahawk starter, based on an ill-informed PFF grade. Especially when Rubin's PFF grade against the run was nearly three times worse than McDaniel's, but I guess you just explain that away because Rubin had a bum ankle at the beginning of last season.

You rely a bit too much on PFF grades and not enough on results, i.e. McDaniels' excellent play against the run vs. Rubin's horrid play. But I hope he improves playing next to a great player like Mebane and doesn't hurt his ankle again.

but that is the point. Rubin doesn't do well in the PFF grading system compared to McDaniel, you shouldn't have a problem winning the bet.

I will give you -3 points as well.

*edit* I was being nice calling him Rubin's backup. He was actually Rubin's and Hill's backup most likely (3rd string). Hill was stealing his reps the 2nd half of the season.

 

[Blitzer88]

Always hate seeing a player cut for these reasons, but what can we do about? Not much, hopefully they can bring him back on a cheaper deal (don't think this is likely), or one of the young guys does step up for us. Thanks for your time and effort Tony, you helped this franchise get it's first SB ring!

 

[Fade]

:thirishdrinkers:

Always hate seeing a player cut for these reasons, but what can we do about? Not much, hopefully they can bring him back on a cheaper deal (don't think this is likely), or one of the young guys does step up for us. Thanks for your time and effort Tony, you helped this franchise get it's first SB ring!

 

[hawknation2015]

I will be HN2016 next year. No, I would never place a bet predicting a PFF grade, when they are not particularly good at grading the kinds of things players like Mebane or McDaniel do.

I disagree with you referring to McDaniel as Rubin's backup, when McDaniel was the incumbent starter and still running with the first team, and also disregarding all of the great work McDaniel did as a Seahawk starter, based on an ill-informed PFF grade. Especially when Rubin's PFF grade against the run was nearly three times worse than McDaniel's, but I guess you just explain that away because Rubin had a bum ankle at the beginning of last season.

You rely a bit too much on PFF grades and not enough on results, i.e. McDaniels' excellent play against the run vs. Rubin's horrid play. But I hope he improves playing next to a great player like Mebane and doesn't hurt his ankle again.

but that is the point. Rubin doesn't do well in the PFF grading system, you shouldn't have a problem winning the bet.

I will give you -3 points as well.

*edit* I was being nice calling him Rubin's backup. He was actually Rubin's and Hill's backup most likely (3rd string). Hill was stealing his reps the 2nd half of the season.

Hill was taking first team reps in the nickel defense, and will continue to do so, unless Frank Clark takes that role. There is 0% chance Rubin plays in the nickel defense. McDaniel was the starter in the base defense. Rubin was backing up McDaniel and Mebane in the base defense, until the Wagner extension necessitated McDaniel's release.

There are a few reasons why I am skeptical that Rubin will have a grade that high (in the negative direction):

One, he will be playing beside Mebane, who tends to dominate double teams and thereby makes the job of the 3T much easier in the base defense.

Two, a negative grade of that size by PFF requires the player to grade negatively on a lot of snaps, and I'm not sure yet whether Rubin will actually win the starting job. Carroll specifically mentioned Dobbs as competing for the position. By playing fewer snaps, Rubin would have less of an opportunity to accumulate a negative grade that large.

And three, PFF grades are subjective ratings. For the most part, I think they do a pretty good job of capturing the gist of a player's performance at certain positions. In other cases, at other positions, they do a really terrible job in their subjective evaluation of a run-stopping 3T like McDaniel. When a player like McDaniel is universally recognized by his teammates and the coaches as doing a great job against the run, and objectively the team allowed fewer rushing yards than they ever have before, it's hard to take PFF's ratings in that case very seriously. In that way, their subjective grading is entirely unpredictable. For those reasons, it's not a prediction that I have or ever would make.

 

[Tical21]

Don't underestimate this move. He wasn't our 11th most important defensive player last season. He was probably either 7 or 8. When you can shut down the run and not have to worry about it, the entire game changes. I like Rubin a lot, I really do. But we're putting a whole lotta marbles in his basket. As the salaries for these guys start to escalate in the coming years, we're going to see a good handful of these, and we're going to have to start getting a lot more production out of our drafts than we have for the last two years.

 

[hawknation2015]

I don't remember Carroll mentioned him, but people say Scruggs is in excellent shape and has looked really good. He's another guy who could potentially compete for a role in the 3T.

 

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@hawknation2015
Why can't you make your points in a few sentences, why are you spinning so hard.

You told me Rubin was way worse than McDaniel in PFF grades.

If you're right take the bet, you should have no problem winning, I will give you a snap contingency = at least 90% to McDaniel 2015. Meaning Rubin has to play at least 327.6 snaps in 2016 for the bet to count.

You got 3 choices.

1. Man up. Take the bet & back your statements up.

2. Admit I'm right, and you're wrong.

3. Continue to Spin like you're doing an impersonation of Marvin . (The cowards way.) (No accountability for you statements.)